WHY ARE AAA DEVS IGNORING VR? THE ACTUAL ANSWER 

99% of VR is indie right now. And the most popular games on steam are also indies so I have to agree with you on that one.

The install base is just too low. More people need to buy and actually use the hardware.

can’t lie i’m not down to wait. vr games could cost millions to make. i’d rather these companies throw $100mils into research because it’ll at least help the indie devs and ngl there are a couple of devs i like but sidequest never has games i like. one of the closest AAA devs we have fully focused on vr is vertigo games. just keep hopin they pump out content because they’re ahead of their time. more games should take notes. also suggest getting a psvr2 because sony is like apple they always release high quality products and there was a leak gta6 might get support

Where is that leak? Is it creditable? That’s the question. I would believe it. They DMCA for both RDR2 and GTA V mods so.

@@ButtorsVRGaming rockstar dmcas almost everything

Stay tuned, this Christmas will be insane, going by the rumors.

@@csakzozoWhat are the rumours? I think Christmas is a little bit too close for any big games to release that haven’t already been announced… Hope I’m wrong though

@@BigFrogg You're wrong, yes. The Praydog injector mod is said to be releasing around Christmas day, bringing most Unreal Engine 4/5 games to VR.

@@csakzozo Oh I didn’t realise you were only talking about mods. I thought you meant official releases

@@BigFrogg I think this is even better.

For sure. We just need to make sure it’s done right and not in a way that gets us hitman again. That was an insult to VR.

@@ButtorsVRGaming hard agree. Hitman is a great example because it SHOULD and COULD have been excellent but the implementation of the controls spoiled it.

@grimmcrag8715 for sure.

Hybridization seems more common in with indie games, with both Unity having native support and toolkits for it (thank all the degens in VRchat for alot that) and UE5.3 shifting more focus on VR optimization, UE is still a mess with VR but its gotten alot better then what it was.

The devs of AC nexus have set a new standard for accessibility in VR. So many options for comfort. They really did a fantastic job.

@juanloutech2864 I think that’s gaming in general. Indies are offering passion projects for real.

Not missing it @johnjdick the video stated full VR first support. I don’t mind support games but people will complain about lack of VR staples in them. I think if done right VR support games can be great. But with the way recent releases have happened many are annoyed at the lack of basic things.

@64jcl yeah, I hear that’s true as well where it’s just constantly something new that can break the smallest thing. Especially since VR is still in its infancy.

@4ranklin1 depends. Idk how many people would continually buy games that are not VR first and are just MVPs (minimum viable product) when it comes to VR. if you look at games like Hitman VR or Tomb raider those are MVP games. do they run in VR sure. Do they take advantage of the unique mechanics that VR offers? No. Thats where the issues will come in. Look at what the VR enthusiast crowd is saying about RE4. Now its a game that added support at a later date like the other 2 but RE4 did alot of mechanics right VS the other 2. Needs a little more to be a good "just enough to be VR" mechanics for the hardcore VR crowd. The ones that bought high end HMDs and PCs for this medium specifically. Anything below that gets reamed and people get mad at the VR users with expectations of VR mechanics. However, some can be quite disrespectful when it comes to feedback for games that have VR support. Those people would not get a seat at my table. When talking about games that are VR exclusive and the 2nd or 3rd installment in the series that's a different story. Still need to be respectful with feedback though 100%. My take on immersion ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-C4LaPSzF0e4.html

@@ButtorsVRGaming Comparing Hitman VR to the Tomb Raider mansion tour is riddiculous. You clearly haven’t played it if you think thats a reasonable category to put it in.

@@ButtorsVRGaming Yeah, I totally agree with the lack of respect in player feedback, historically speaking. It's actually a shame that this is almost always the first reaction to VR ports and duel mode games, because here's the thing: there are only two ways that AAA VR titles will ever get made, realistically speaking: 1) they are subsidized by Sony/Valve/Meta, or 2) The AAA VR game in question is either sold as a 2D game first and ported to VR afterwards or is released with support for both from the start. That way, the sales from traditional console/PC crowd subsidizes the development of the VR functionality, often allowing the VR "port" to actually be profitable. So why doesn't this happen? I think the first thing people say is that VR ports and duel mode VR/2D games "just aren't immersive enough" or don't have enough "VR Native" features. I propose that's not the real reason. I've played "VR Native" games with less VR native functionality than VR ports of 2D games. And, I've felt fully immersed in VR games with literally no VR native functionality beyond head tracking (especially in the early days of VR). And you know, it depends on the game what's actually "good". For example, I like the immersive reloading and full-body physics of Bonelab, but sometimes I'd just prefer the arcade-style button-press-to-reload mechanics for a faster-paced shooter. I want both. I want the Bonelabs, but I don't want every VR game to be a Bonelab. A really high-performance Quake 2, with no more VR controls than the bare minimum head tracking, decent locomotion options, and non-janky hand-tracked gunplay with one-button reloading and weapon switching sounds like a darn fun time, IMO. I propose the REAL reason is two-fold. First, historically speaking, the early days of VR was dominated by enthusiast gamers with expensive VR hardware and expensive PCs. And, regardless of the economics for the publishers, they demanded high end "made for VR" content to justify their expensive purchases. VR ports were looked down on, in this context. And even now, with much more economic all-in-one hardware available to the casual crowd, that sentiment remains. Even now, a game that runs in both VR and 2D has to run the gauntlet of questions - is it immersive enough (whatever that means), does it have enough VR native features (whatever that means), can you pick literally every 3D asset up and throw it, or whatever the goalpost is set at the time. Second, we've just had a lot of low-effort, low-budget VR ports that have just been crap. Just ludicrously bad. Bad performance, terrible VR controls, old CPU-bound game engines written when 30fps was the target, unplayable and buggy overall, you get the picture. And gamers are just jaded. Perhaps justifiably so in the short term. In the long term, however, VR ports can be made of games written in more modern engines that can better handle the requirements of VR - the problems that plague Skyrim VR for example will not apply to a future VR port of a game written in Unreal Engine 5 in 2023. And devs needs to actually make an effort and not rely on modders to make their VR port actually playable. My point is two fold: not every VR game needs Boneworks-style full-body physics to be worth buying and playing in VR and in fact sometimes we don't even want that. Second, the goal is to get AAA companies to build VR into the design of the game from the start, ALONG with 2D console/PC modes. Or, they can release the game on PC/Console first and port it to VR later, after the game has already made most/all of the development budget back. Those are the best and second best possible outcomes for us. For that, I think we need to be clear on what the expectations are, not vague or incorrect assertions about being immersive or having VR native features. And it's pretty simple what we need: the engine performance needs to be good (and more importantly consistent), the UI needs to be clean and usable in VR, the controls and gameplay need to be smooth and not buggy or janky, and perhaps a few small affordances for VR gameplay - like spawning one or two fewer enemies in some scenes, or altering a mechanic slightly, or an extra difficulty or accessibility option where necessary.

@jeromiya4673 this is a long ass message. But after reading it. There’s a lot that I agree with. I won’t be able to reply to everything. But I want to specifically go to the point of 2016 and the lack of VR controls. I think enthusiast are coming in that are from 2016 and even some beyond obviously they really don’t want to go back to how things used to be with VR. They want to make sure the medium is moving forward and bad VR native games get reamed, which is a little more understanding than flat to VR. But at the end, when you said altering a mechanic slightly, I think that’s what most are asking for. I think a lot of people want to be able to physically climb. Or physically open doors. Obviously reloading is a big one, but it seems that VR ports from flat are understanding this now. So yes, I do think a few simple rules and mechanics were taken into VR ports would not get the flack that they have now, and would actually be good experiences to everyone, including the people critical of the ports and how they are currently.

@@ButtorsVRGaming Yeah, I get your point about moving the medium forward, and I agree to an extent that if all we ever get are AAA VR games with the bare minimum VR integration that will put people off in the long term. That being said, I think there's room for AAA VR games that aren't a complete rewrite of their 2D counterparts with crazy elaborate roomscale body/physics puzzles or something. Also, we shouldn't expect AAA publishers to always be the ones pushing the boundaries of what the VR medium can do when often they don't even do that for non-VR games. The presence of more AAA content will bring more VR adoption, which in turn will enable more independent studios to do the boundary pushing, just as they do in the non-VR space.

@fonsi198 well if you look at the PlayStation VR two sub, Reddit, you will see that a lot of people are annoyed with the ports for offering what is essentially the ability to put a headset on and play as well as making it so they can reload their gun and throw grenades. Many are mad that Capcom learned nothing about interaction and nothing about VR and a lot of resident evil is button presses to perform actions. VR as a medium offers, the unique experience of providing you, the player, the ability to physically interact with your surroundings. Are you an owner of the PlayStation VR 2? What would you say your favorite game? Is that really solidifies the technology for the headset? Have you played red matter series at all?

I got a VR2 (my first vr headset) and recently a quest 3. I never was a racing game player but think gt7 with vr2 and a wheel is the best game i ever played in my life. Second comes no mans sky, a game i dropped after 5 mins on flatscreen and in vr put 150 hours in. Re7 in vr is the most horrifying game i ever played (made me really scared). Played red matter 1 and 2, yes, they are ok but sometimes frustrating and slow, and of course short. But looking very good and still fun. Overall i would say just gt7 justifies the vr2. Sure the vr2 needs more good games thats why i got the quest 3 to have more games.

So, like I explained in the video when you are doing high-end, it is pretty much impossible to make money. Games like hitman and its VR mode would probably become the norm which is severely unacceptable, especially in the high-end market that this video was speaking on. As for small developers, not doing VR, they literally don’t need to. It’s not in the cost of their game. Every game that’s in development has a scope and has a cost, and they might burn through all that before they can even implement experimental features which would be virtual reality VR would have to be a right out of the gate for investors and one investors look at VR they don’t see money. Technically, I don’t blame them if someone was bringing their game to the PlayStation and PC platforms is very hard to make money on that because it was platforms don’t have the numbers. There are games that I’ve implemented VR that have not made money on the VR side of their user base, and have essentially been saved by the flat side. I’ve never seen an example of it being the other way around. I think you should probably download unreal engine, and see how long it takes you to implement VR controls. That’s exactly what most indeed developers would have to do. It’s not as easy as it sounds.

@@ButtorsVRGaming The problem for a consumer was that the vast majority of VR offerings were poop from the beginning, which made even VR early adaptors lose enthusiasm after a while, and then round and round the cycle went. Browse Steam and look at all the Vr things you would barely download for free, as opposed to the rare VR gem that often becomes a franchise like california sunshine, etc. Nowadays, I see a game, check to see if there's vr coming, and if not, then unless its a HUGE, must have AAA thing, I shrug and move on. Making a choice between AAA titles, the one with VR is the one I grab first, and then the other a few months down the line on sale, or even hopefully for free on EPIC or Gamepass or whatever service, which is where the AAA's seem to keep ending up recently....... Lately, I've gone back and grabbed some older titles for a song after somebody made an acceptable vr mod; games I probably would not have considered otherwise and enough to keep me occupied while I let the nonstop avalanche of middling non-vr titles fly on by.

Early VR sure. There is more and more quality games happening today. Mods have helped in the long run but I have my feelings on those things. Especially with UEVR injector coming. As for AAA and where it’s going you won’t be seeing big sale AAA on gamepass or epic imo. Only Xbox first party stuff. Which is usually lacking quality this last year. But hey I’m with you on where a lot of stuff is and I hope you at least are still enjoying your games. Appreciate the back and forth in the comments as well. Always enjoy people giving their experiences and takes. Hope to see you back in the comments on future videos as well.

@SeanLumly. Im not snubbing the PSVR 2. Feel free to check my PSVR 2 videos. PSVR 2 and PCVR are the high end platforms that would be an oar to get the same experiences. Was very excited for PSVR 2 because it added to high end marquee numbers bringing us closer to more AAA VR games. I would consider all RE series VR games to be support games not VR first games. But they are damn good ports. Actually offering unique interactions. Hitman on the other hand was a joke to flat games that offer VR support. Unfortunately I think that was a little on the PSVR 1 too. Ports will forever and always be cheaper. As other have said in the comments I think we should encourage flat devs to support VR. But it needs to be done right. I don’t think PSVR 2 is the only thing being talked about in VR. Currently there is not a lot of anything going on with the public in VR that stands out. Very excited to see what’s on offer VR wise at the video game awards though. And I personally can wait for all the PSVR 2 homies to play virtigo. Appreciate the comments as well. Always good to have a discussion with another very passionate VR user.

@@ButtorsVRGaming I'm not talking about you or I would have written: you need to stop, etc, etc. I don't think ports need to be done right. That's like saying games need to be done right. There will be good ports and bad ports, as there are good games and bad games. The audience will determine what is good and what is not. I also don't think PSVR 2 is the only thing talked about. In fact, it's talked about FAR less (in my experience) than Quest. But the maintstream actually talks about VR because of PSVR2 and games like RE4 Remake VR mode. Otherwise the chatter stays in the Quest community. I think the VR media (not you, necessarily) have been the largest enemy of VR and hurt its adoption over the last decade.

@SeanLumly I like that said you didn’t say my name and that one is on me you 100% didn’t say my name. As for good ports, I mean ports that will do the bare minimum of the medium. So for RE4. Bare minimum that I think needed to be added, or the ability to open doors, physically and physically climb ladders. I think buttons should be used as an accessibility feature, not as a primary interaction. I will say PlayStation VR two got a massive amount of flack because all the games at the game awards were PSVR2 games when games like virtigo 2 came out on PC this year. However I think them having ports there was a bigger issue with the masses in the VR community. Kind of a kicking of teeth to a lot of the devs that did VR only games. But 100% quest is the main talked about platform. As for your last point, I agree, there are definitely some people within the community that will just rave and speak the praises of PCVR constantly, or their respective platforms and alienate them from each other. When at bare minimum PSVR2 and PCVR are in the same boat when it comes to power. And they really need to be looked at as one platform together. I do think there are definitely people out there that say everything needs to be interact and everything needs to work how they want it to work. Those people really hurt the community. But I do think the standard interactions that you would expect should still be done in many ports. Examples would be having a weapon like a gun. You would have to physically reload opening doors and ladders. You would physically climb. I’m 100% OK if they want to add accessibility options to opening doors and reloading that’s fine by me I think it’s good to have that. Appreciate the comments from someone who is actually thinking about the medium. Thank you.

​@@ButtorsVRGaming Yes, good ports would have more interactions, but even without these, the games are still loved, and people are drawn into the medium. It's important to remember that VR Ports are only NOW becoming common and their sophistication will take time, as the market grows, and developers will put more resources into them. Ports gained momentum with the PSVR-era (2016) and ramping up in PSVR2. I wouldn't be surprised to see future games created with the idea that they would receive a port! And yes to your third point, and I would add: the fans (generally speaking) seem to celebrate VR games, and only complain when they don't have a game or two on another platform, which is natural. They like what they like, and ignore the rest. Sometimes that involves VR mechanics, sometimes (a lot of times) it doesn't matter as much. RE4 has had surprisingly little coverage, since its release yesterday, but the fans LOVE IT, many claiming it's peak VR! This is in SPITE of its non-VR shortcomings! If nothing else, the media should be compelled to talk about it. But they don't. RE4 VR has been largely ignored.

@NPCMii if a developer wants to get dragged through the mud by the VR community probably. I mean AI overtime is going to make game development easier just all around. But you’re going to lose a lot of the art and uniqueness from people that actually Taylor these worlds. Since AI can’t really generate its own art and is just pulling art, and it styles from everyone else on the Internet. It can be used as a tool to assist people, but don’t think it should be a tool used to replace actual developers.

There are a lot of people within the VR community that would not accept a 3Dof DLC on 99.9% of the games it would be on. Interaction with 6Dof is what makes VR a unique medium.

@banadamiban ? What are you asking?

@@ButtorsVRGaming assasıan cread

@banadamiban oh, this is a different video. You need to go and uncheck the comfort setting for fear of heights or around that area. I know for a fact it’s a comfort setting though.

@CrispinParker mod and support games are great but they will not match the quality that is expected of a AAA VR game.

I believe this is metal of honor above and beyond.

@@ButtorsVRGaming thanks

Everything you are saying is valid. But how much would a small team of vets/high level devs be? That’s the thing. I’m doing AVG but if we went to upper level dev teams those would be probably 150-200k a year senior developers. That’s how to have just a team of even 10 of them. 2m a year. VR is for sure not easy and having an understanding of what people what is also very hard. I love GOT and they are really doing great work however I would worry where they would be without quest users which is really where this all comes down to. Big vast AAA quality all around is not able to happen with the numbers of PCVR and PSVR 2 hardware that have the power to function these really well rounded AAA VR games. It’s expensive for both consumer and publisher. VR support games help with that a lot but they also don’t always do it right. Look at Hitman. That VR mode is horrible if you were to look at it strictly from the VR perspective. IMO. @goldenzim

​@ButtorsVRGaming So the real problem is the insane salary. €100 to €200 k a year. No business would be profitable with this kind of salary. In my country, the Netherlands, your talking about lawyers, dokters, CEO's with this kind of salary. In real life there probably is much more difference between salary (or at least there should be). Most of the people who do the most part of the work should earn around €40 to €60 k. Also, the question you quote in your video "people wonder why this game, AC Nexus, isn't coming to other platform", isn't "why isn't Nexus a much more detailed and developed game". So basically the only question is, "why don't they set a small team to port it to other platforms"? Surely the extra player base should cover the costs of a small port team?

Not saying what quest has isn’t good. But I’m talking HL alyx and COTM size games here. There is a massive difference when it comes to team size ,scope and cost to produce. Especially when talking about quality visually and mechanically.

⁠​⁠​⁠@@ButtorsVRGaming yes but you can play PCVR games with your quest. So it’s advantageous. every Quest headset sold is a potential PCVR user. if you want better PCVR games, it starts with standalone. Because you understand it’s a Numbers game and if you’re just focusing on PCVR, that’s a pipe dream.

It’s not going to happen like that. The quest 3 right now has a chip set that is twice as powerful as the quest 2 and is capable of running much larger and better looking games but still a lot of people aren’t buying it. why, because there’s no exclusives for the quest 3. Why aren’t there exclusive for the quest 3 because not enough people own it. You’re not gonna spend $15-$20 million producing an exclusive game to take advantage of that more powerful hardware when only 10 or 15% of your user base is going to have access to it. I keep seeing people saying they’re waiting on a quest 4 but for what? If people aren’t buying the 3, and it’s twice as powerful, why would people go buy the 4 if it’s the exact same games? And I know by your comment that you understand this and I agree it’s important for the light to takeoff but it’s also important for the 3 to takeoff in general. But unfortunately there seems to be a lot of people in the quest community that don’t understand this. Honestly what Meta needs to do and I know they’ve already lost $36 billion and their reality labs has lost another $13 billion and this is all pretty much from VR but they’re gonna have to take one more on the chin and release an exclusive for the 3 to show people what it’s capable of, and give them a reason to purchase it. Because releasing a 4 and saying it’s more powerful obviously isn’t going to work because it’s not working for the 3.

I still want more PCVR @kroyvr

@rodiape well Capcom would have to do that. But also would miss the entire point of the video. High-end AAA big development team studios do not have enough buyers between PCVR, and PlayStation VR two to actually make a profit. It really depends on what you consider AAA VR. But technically by definition assassin’s Creed Nexus would be AAA as it’s developed by a AAA studio. Technically by definition half-life Alex is indie. But 100% is AAA quality.

@weplayvrgames If its done right we could see alot of ports to VR. But we don't need a repeat of some flat to VR games that lack anything really VR.

@@ButtorsVRGaming no I agree , for example if they port GTA 5 to vr I'd expect to be able to open the car doors via the handles or roll down the windows via in car buttons or levers stuff like that, really add the immersion to what ever it's added to

I don’t know how long you’ve been a Sony person or have had a PlayStation, but Sony keeps their cards as close to their chest as they possibly can. I guarantee you that there is another VR game from Sony in the works not a doubt in my mind about that. I have another video on my channel about Sony and what’s going on with all their stuff when it comes to the headset. It’s honestly just a time thing at this point. They technically only have one VR studio. I’ll have to look into meta-bailing out on that. my back of the theory of additional information that I recently discovered. If it does, I’m definitely gonna make a video on it.

To be fair after spider man we have no idea what else sony is working on. I think the pandemic screwed them up a bit and had to delay some games. The only reason we've had such a big year in gaming is because a lot of games that were supposed to come out 1 or 2 years ago got delayed to this year. I'm hoping next year we see another sony exclusive built from the ground up.

@kaboozle meta funded their project and the Sony funded it for their platform. But it’s seems like the way forward for the time being. But the biggest issue will be. These games only for to the platforms that will pay for them. VS going everywhere. Sales of standalone are high and we should encourage that since it lets people get into VR then get a PC. As for adoption there are more and more people coming in every year. But it’s something that takes time. Just like home consoles.

@jacquesmesrine9427 depends on what you consider AAA VR but the video is talking about HL:alyx quality of AAA VR visually and mechanically. RE4 is getting mixed reviews depending on who you talk to. People that want VR mechanics are not happy. Those who just want good GFX are eating good AF with it.

But is not those mods took forever and got official support from both valve and Sony. The biggest difference was Sony subsidizing RE4VR. Also they had the template from the quest two version of the game. It cost a lot of money. It takes a lot of time. CC is not doing these ports on their own. If they were paying for themselves, I would understand. But Sony is paying for it.

@skelo9033 most people are asking why we do see more games of high quality visuals and interaction. COTM and HL:alyx levels of these. AAA gaming flat is over saturated and of everyone agrees they will buy the crap they will keep making it crap. People love sports games and call of duty. But if you go to single players games from Sony first party that’s the AAA people are looking for in VR.

Or add vr controls to all your new games so they are flat screen and vr at the same time. Now your profitable but if is vr exclusive you lose. It’s simple

@beef279 im talking about big teams, creating big AAA budget games as of right now it is near impossible for them to make any money. This video was created to talk about specifically high end hardware that includes PC and PlayStation VR two. You are not able to get half-life, Alex or horizon call of the mountain levels of detail without losing money right now. It is impossible to have 50% of all people on these platforms purchase your game guaranteed. So although quest can make money and probably use old assets and so on it is not high-end and was not included in this video for that specific reason. The only thing quest is doing right now is making PCVR bigger. In regards to relation of this video.

Horizon forbidden west, has zero VR in it. It cost $212 million to make it flat. We will soon enough find out how much it took to make a resident evil eight VR. But if you are someone that plays VR for the unique way you interact with the game mods are cool but not a replacement.

@xander396 That’s assuming if only half of them from that studio were working on. Of course not everyone’s gonna be making 75K. that’s just average meaning the top of the top and the bottom of the bottom all add it together and then getting the medium. We don’t know how many people worked on it.

@comicbookhuygamecat the mugs themselves are getting better however, they are missing a lot of the minimums when it comes to VR interaction so I do hope they improve those. Also I can’t wait for PSVR 2 players to be able to experience vertigo 2. Should be game of the year next year based on all the information we have currently on the next year of games for the platform.

@@ButtorsVRGaming yeah true but at least the resident evil vr modes are not a insult to vr like hitman is was I have a feeling the vr mode for hitman wasn't in development for that long or the Devs don't know anything about vr and I haven't even the played the first vertigo yet.

@comicbookguygamecat Hitman was the biggest of insults. Unfortunately that was dude to the original hardware it was made for. As for Virtigo. The 2nd one is amazing.

@@ButtorsVRGaming if it gets a psvr2 hopefully it would fix the issues I have never played hitman before I am just going off how bad everyone says it is and the psvr1 version remember didn't have move support.

@jackdiddley if you want to encourage VR support that is fine but if you go and look at Threads, people are going to have minimum required expectations and without those being met, people will not be happy with a game supporting VR. For example, Star Wars squadrons is only excepted because it is a game where you are flying and that is it it’s like Microsoft flight simulator. Resident evil that just released is being critiqued by many VR veterans as a lazy port because you’re unable to do things that in a regular VR game would be a bare minimum interaction. Things like climbing ladders and doors physically with your controllers.

Sony has a written Capcom a check to say hey we want resident evil four on PSVR 2 here’s a boatload of money so that you don’t lose any. Please make it. And that’s what happens. Also technically speaking resident evil four has a flat version that is already made an insane amount of money. But Sony subsidizing the VR version is what allows it to be exclusive to that platform. It’ll be a timed exclusive and come to PC but as of right now Sony has paid for exclusivity. Even if Sony loses money on this specific game. Which technically won’t because the flat sells anyway. It’s getting people into their ecosystem. Unless those people are doing VR exclusively, they will be making money on the flat games those people buy. Which is the only reason Sony subsidizes anything.

@thisisrends I agree we can 100% do support games. I love NMS. However if developers think hitman is ok that’s when we will start to run into issues. VR support and run in VR are massively different things in the long run. NMS has VR support where as Hitman runs in VR. Hope that makes sense.

I don’t think about adding VR afterwards. If a small VR team would be installed right from the start of game developing and make their part about HUD game mechanics and so on the company could make the big part of $$$ from PC/PS users while still having a game that works nice in VR.

@ThisisRends can’t do parallel development like that from my understanding of game dev. But I will ask some of my dev contacts about this and see what they say. I think it would be very hard but again I don’t dev. I just research it.

@V0lk are you in VR? Like have you used the headset since 2016? Some of the stuff that they’ve put out even on mobile headsets looks insanely good. I mean it’s still PlayStation three graphics on mobile headsets. But on PC and PlayStation VR 2 it’s nowhere close to that bad. Are you just talking as a consumer from the outside of virtual reality? Because if that’s the case, I’m all ears I’d love to hear your opinion on where you think VR is at this point in time. It’s rare someone that sees a VR video that might not be in VR at all.

@@ButtorsVRGaming Yes, I'm a VR user. I have a Quest 2, Quest 3, and PSVR2. I guess I'm mostly referring to the lower quality of the standalone games. I have a high-end PC and VR is great with pass-through games. I also love my PSVR2. Maybe even a bit more than when I'm playing VR on my PC. However, as we all know the standalone Meta games are missing a lot of features due to hardware weaknesses. So many of those games don't appeal to me because they're lower poly, lower res textures and very little lighting. I did just pick up Assassins Creed on my Quest 3 and I'm very impressed with it. They're getting closer. I think the AAA devs will start paying attention a bit more this year.

@alanvarker2279 Are there any games out that have released in the last 7 years (2016) that have been modded to play in VR that actually feel like there was enough put into them to be on the level of quality of half-life Alex? I’m talking specifically about the implementation of VR and how it is used as a medium for storytelling and mechanics within the games.

"They don't all need to be done as extensive as RE4 VR (both regular and remake)" The community very split on RE4 and how it does VR. I cant see anything with less VR implementation going over well. VR support games can be good or they can be Hitman VR tier. "The expensive cost excuse is an argument that can only be used when it comes to games made from the ground up for VR or highly modified to make VR work." Why would you buy a $1500 PCVR set up to not have VR native games. Respectfully going to have to ask you to step back 1000 feet and look at this one. The VR injector mod is what you are looking for and you will be happy for the rest of time. Anyone that wants actual VR and not just 6DOF flat game button pressing will still use UEVR but they will support big PCVR games. UEVR = Unreal engine VR MOD. This video will explain it. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KsseaDECkJI.html "Just keep it simple, no need to cater to the casual market specifically, you'll end up with the kind of trash VR modes that the PSVR1 added to popular flatscreen games like Rise of the Tomb Raider's." The casuals loved this and Hitman VR. they ate it up and loved it. Any VR player that wanted interactions and actual VR were talking all the crap about this stuff. however PSVR 1 was the reason these sucked because of their controllers. but we also would not have had real interaction anyway.

@@ButtorsVRGaming It doesn't need to be popular on the first try. And one of the problems with VR mods is that it's an outside implementation and extra taxing on performance. The important thing is to get as many games out there that can be fully played in VR.

Anyone that’s worried about games outside of VR is happy enough playing those flat in a VR headset.

@digglerdiggler to each their own as long as you are having fun.

@solipsistG there’s a massive mechanical difference between VR games, built from the ground up and VR games that essentially have added support for controllers or mods that have made it so you can have VR controllers. A massive quality difference.

also no one quote me on the numbers, I didn't bother to market research my youtube comment, these are estimates, but the argument holds lmao.

That is 100% another issue with numbers. $1000 entry to High end VR PSVR 2 and PS5. more if you want to get into high end PCVR. For the wireless I think it might be a long time. 10 years maybe. But way less for the 30 series and PS6. 2028 is the PS6 Rumor. Quest 5 will be out by then. but IDK where the US internet speeds will be. The headset weight will go down with the addition of a wire to the PC. But im interested in seeing if apples battery design takes off or if we keep batteries in the headset.

@@ButtorsVRGaming Agreed. As an avid user, I'd honestly be perfectly fine with less of the hardware being in the actual headset and being attached to me elsewhere as dystopic as that sounds as long as my head doesn't feel like there's a brick attached. Hopefully Apple does that as well as a few other things well to help the medium forward. It's hard to predict US internet progress. I hope it continues on a similar trend, but I agree - it's seemingly looking like a decade before people reliably have wifi speeds that match what direct connections to PCs have rn.

@Shinyshoesz Apple is going to move the industry insanely quickly. Meadow is going to be the biggest winner with that though. as I’ve said other comments, Mom and Dad are not getting a little Timmy a $3500 headset. But overall, we will definitely see a big push towards people getting into VR and then wanting PCs .

@@ButtorsVRGaming I think we're totally on the same page here. I'm in nice little VR discord and a lot of folks either ignore or bemoan the Apples of the world when it comes to this stuff -- but the richest company in the world backing ANY type of VR headset (despite what they market it as) is an insane win for the industry as a whole just in terms of R+D and promotion to the masses. I keep telling people around me in 5-10 years, it will make much more economic sense to have a decent VR headset from someone like Apple than their current multimonitor setup. (Imo -- It just seems like a logical endpoint of screens and what we are trying to do when we buy 3+ monitors and encapsulate most of our vision with them). Very very excited by their investment in a whole Vision chip and how powerful it will feel to kind of "think" your way around an operating system in the way the demos looked and from what I heard from people who used it.

@skscotch it offers the bare minimum in VR experiences, along with every thing that people hate. Clicking a button to perform an interaction and not actually doing it themselves. Although the unreal engine VR injector is cool and I’m excited for it to come the way that everyone talks about it seems like they just wanna put a headset on and play with a console controller. Makes me very worried about the future of VR and also what people think is acceptable for the medium. This is literally the bare minimum.

@anon3631 you really read the thumbnail watched 0:01 commented, and then left. Is really important to watch the video you click on before you comment otherwise you might not sound very intelligent. If you decide to go back and watch the video, feel free to reply with a relevant take. The video is about PCVR and PSVR 2 not mobile VR.

@lionelt.9124 most games are on par with PS3 really. also I think there is is BB mod coming with modded lobbies.

@mrlordbevis we need hybrid games that will do it right. We don’t need another hitman. That’s going to be the biggest difference.

Yo, I really like the thought you put into this comment. I feel that hopped in and out of really easy experience though. That’s why I love walkabout mini golf. That game is my go to when I want a little bit of something that’s not too involved. I assume since you saw this that you’ve probably played half-life, Alex and some of the higher quality VR stuff? Obviously not as much in general, but you have played some of it I assume.

1000% @laartwork it’s just one of those things that is just going to happen over time. All down to money in the end.

@kevint1719 yeah obviously quest isn’t really gonna be able to handle a lot hence why I didn’t really mention it but Playstation and PC could handle a lot of these games and they do. PC is going to be getting a mod that lets them play any game that’s made on unreal engine to be played in VR. The downside to this is outside of the will see this and if they decide to develop for it, they will think that the bare minimum is OK. That is where I worry. Especially since some users on the PSVR2 they felt like the resident evil developers Capcom could’ve done more to actually do a better implementation of VR. As someone who got VR for the unique mechanics, it can offer I have to agree. However, at the same time it could be worse. Can’t wait for the Playstation Homies to be able to experience an immersive very close to AAA level of interaction with vertigo 2 when it comes out. The developer really just wants you guys to have the best experience you possibly can. It was PCVR players GOTY for many.

It’s still not going to be AAA VR from the ground up. It’ll be awesome. It’s gonna look real good. It’s gonna have a lot going on with it but it is not going to be something that is actually replacing true AAA VR.

@@ButtorsVRGaming it is a start i think... maybe there is more stuff like this coming out in the future that minimizes the effort and ressources that devs need to put into games... maybe a new engine that makes it easier to make games or something else based on AI... who knows...

@nobodygaming4248 fast travel games is already moving forward and I hope others start to do the same. Will have a video on it after the holiday. But I think it will be how VR moves forward.

@@ButtorsVRGaming whatever directions it takes, i am excited for the future...

@nobodygaming4248 we are the early adopter of what will hopefully be an amazing medium to experience games/entertainment with for sure.

Thems the facts.

@@ButtorsVRGaminguevr injector will change all

$10. Not enough money if they are too to do it right. However I can’t really say that with confidence will we learn how much Sony has paid Capcom for the VR modes. We don’t need Hitman VR all over again. I’m fine with VR modes but they need to be done right. Not just a VR skin on top of what’s there

@tomjones9356 really depends on what we want. But yes projects are going to be a lot cheaper to port over.

@@ButtorsVRGaming well if we wanted AAA VR titles that was the only viable way.

I dunno, from what I've heard, most of the early adopters got the horizon bundle. At least that's the impression I got. 50% isn't completely off the table, although I personally expect it's more like 30-40%.

I mean, you hit the nail on the head with this one. The way that people critique within VR. They say “it is just another tech demo”. when in reality, a lot of these games are doing great things even on the lower end hardware. I have to usually keep myself in check and dedicate an entire section of my reviews just to the realism factor that doesn’t have an actual score penalty at all. Because we can’t expect everything to be half-life alyx level of interactions. I don’t think points should be taken off if I can’t mess with everything in the map. Hence why I created an entire section as a fun at the end thing. it’s still allows me to talk about it but in a way that’s not making it seem like an expectation because it shouldn’t be. realistically, I think Capcom is doing an insanely good job when it comes to converting their flat games to VR games. Hitman on the other hand, we all know. I think there’s only one solution. we have to come to a consensus as a community on what is the most important aspect of VR and make sure that we communicate that in a way people outside and developers can understand. I think we may also need some new voices within the VR community that don’t necessarily speak out against existing members but communicate expectations in a way that the average non-developer can understand. Not just calling everything half-life Alex level or the like. it’s not good and definitely needs to stop.

@digglerdiggler it’s hard to say honestly. I think if done right VR support games can be great. But usually they are not. Skyrim was honestly less than the bare minimum and Hitman was another one. They have to do the medium justice. Otherwise a mod would have done just as good a job.

1000% I just wanted to use numbers I could provide accurately when it came out cost.

I just wanted to give some sort of reasonable explanation. Sick of seeing so many people ask why we were not getting them. But I’m definitely excited for the future of VR.

@yojimbo7206 where did you get 120 million? Every single index is sold got a free copy. I’m gonna need to know where you got that 120 million number. The amount of people I still see on Reddit and Twitter asking if they should buy half-life. Alex is very high. You also see constantly looking for the game at a discount. The second point is irrelevant, seeing as how the video is specifically for high end, hardware, and high end AAA, VR. They would not turn a profit if they ported it to PC. Horizon called of the mountain, has some of the most boring combat that any VR users have seen. It has been called a climbing simulator. PC and Playstation don’t have enough VR users to turn a profit.

@laartwork and PS2 made DVD widely accessible. But realistically VR is a new medium that people need to experience to actually understand if fully. Because you can understand what’s happening but you don’t fully grasp it till you try it. Apple will let people try it.

@tykendrick800 Maybe I didn’t explain well enough. Look at the team size on those projects. Out of those you listed HL alyx has the biggest team. I’m talking 100+ people on a VR project. Which is why I named horizon. HL is a AAA although technically they are indie because valve is independently owned. But again to me HL as an IP is AAA. AS I’m not 100% sure they are AAA. Although since this video is talking higher end pushing the envelope tech. AC is AAA studio that used a AAA IP but still the video is talking about higher end hardware and why PC and PSVR 2 are not getting these games. AS and bone labs would also not fall under that. Since they are on the quest platform. This video is bringing attention as to why we don’t have AAA HL alyx and horizon visuals/gameplay coming from other non first party hardware sellers. That reason is money. The high end hardware platform does not have enough people to make enough money to make it work. Hope this helps explain it better. Thank you for taking the time to comment appreciate it.

Facts. FOMO is BS and not welcome. I also enjoy the fact that we have a way to enjoy shorter sessions of games. we can kind of hop in and hop out of VR at Will with the experiences we have and are getting. But I do know a lot of people that wonder why we aren’t seeing AAA. I think a lot of people really just want graphics. I don’t think they want all the other stuff that comes with that. You can’t get really high graphics, and really deep story rich experiences, if they are not sustainable.

Michaellong2439 I’m going to check it out.

Games will always be subsidized by the platform they are on. COTM and HL:alyx are going to be rare for the next 5-10 years.

@@ButtorsVRGaming That’s why I think hybrid games are the solution. Apparently the resi 4 VR mode on psvr only took 9 months to make

Cassial777 valve games are going to be 110% different because the engine that they are built on has VR in it where is the RE engine does not technically have VR built-in from the ground up on it. But I’m 99.999% sure that’s going to be the main way moving forward if we want any AAA title to be on any higher and hardware for at least the next five years.

@SYFEG They have Roblox

Oh for sure. But AAA VR exclusive games are years away.

@decadentshark9357 AW2 is standalone only. This video refers to AAA High end VR so its aging perfectly.

@haltux I don’t think anyone is trying to walk around their game room. At least I hope not. If they are, they’re probably using a Kat walk VR treadmill. Space is the only valid thing here that I can see. But most usually are aware when they research VR how much space they need at minimum. Alex is more of an RPG I believe, but works very well as an FPS. However it is using tricks from halo 1,2 and 3 like forcing you to walk and not giving you a run at all. The reason the game can offer such high Fidelity is because it’s trapping you in smaller places. If you want, modern FPS. contractors is what you are looking for. Titan fall starwars battlefront COD all that is in the game.

It is easier to get people to spend three to $500 than it is to get them to spend $1000-$4000. That’s the biggest difference. Quest popularity, comes from its ease of access when it comes to pricing. Until PC and consoles are cheap enough it’s going to take a while for AAA VR gaming to get up there.

I tried my best to make the distinction between Support and AAA, VR it seems like I may have not done a very good job @notsurebrawndo AAA from the ground up for VR is very different than something like COTM or alyx. We do for sure have lower budget VR support games but we do not have big budget AAA, VR games.

@@ButtorsVRGaming I guess I'm lumping in hybrids.

@TPDene it’s really not that easy. If they have no VR experience, it can be really hard to do. Another thing is taking into accountability, a lot of comfort settings, as well as needing to redo assets to be able to actually grab them. There is a lot of work that goes into the back end of VR development. I recommend looking up the history of half-life Alex and all the work they did into making it so that you can grab items just about anyway imaginable. It’s no joke.

@007feck thats correct

Yep. 5-10 years is the numbers I’m looking at. We get more and more people every Christmas. PCVR will be closer to the 10 year mark.

@@ButtorsVRGaming Not to mention that some games like Into the Radius are paving the way for new ideas and innovations! (Just like how STALKER also inspired a lot of games---even though ITR is also a STALKER-like) I'm looking forward to the VR Soulslikes that'll boom once Grimlord and Arashi come out It's already great that we're finally getting immersive sims with Assassin's Creed and Vampire the Masquerade Justice

@JohnPeacekeeper Grimlord is amazing IMO. I think they have released on PC at this point but idk what the timeline is for the quest platform m.

@Janfey what are you doing with it? Are you just watching movies or what?

@@ButtorsVRGaming Yeah, i watch "movies"

@Janfey well worth it IMO. I would at least go to big screen and chill with ppl.

@Gosu first part 100%. Second part. There is stark difference between Arizona sunshine 2 VR implementation VS RE4 but are amazing but you can tell what is VR from the ground up VS what is not.

@@ButtorsVRGaming True, but I would take RE over arizona sunshine any day of the week, so even tho the difference is stark in VR mechanics, they both belong on the platform and if transition period requires it, I'm completely fine with less interactive AAA ports.

I think there are enough people out there that would realistically understand from previous experience with endgame development on how a lot of the systems would work, and it wouldn’t take much time to learn. But when you have teams that are massive, you come back around to the cost of all of those teams.

I don’t think we would have a game like half-life alyx or call of the mountain if developers thought this at all. There’s also an insane amount of style if they really want to do that it’s not like AAA can’t have its own style.

@@ButtorsVRGaming that’s very true and I was gonna mention that. Thinking of titles like Hogwarts (which I can see in FPS), AC on other consoles, Final Fantasy rebirth, and many other titles, the pure character development and progression of character abilities as the game progresses is a 100% adrenaline rush and reason to create great games. In FPS on VR the development of the game would have to be 100% in game play bringing jaw dropping results as the game progresses. If it’s repetitive with no progression of abilities or character, just simulated movements time and time again where’s the fun in development? BUT! I do see a bright future for Q3 games because the inside tech is insane. I just wanna see great titles.

@@marcusbrown307 spot on. all that takes money and time though. Have you done PCVR at all or any VR besides standalone?

@@ButtorsVRGaming not on PCVR. Q3 would be my second VR headset. I gave it a go years earlier on a cardboard headset lol. Not the best of times but it was fun. I’m currently looking forward to the Xbox cloud game pass when it becomes official instead of side loading it.

@marcusbrown307 damn. Went from cardboard to quest 3. Wow. What a leap. What games are you playing?