Good vid LOW, it’s good to see Big Men come back to being dominant even if they have evolved to a different type of dominance nowadays. Time and play style allowed coaches, GM’s and executives to view big men differently and teach them to play different as well. The league is in a good place with big men even if they aren’t the traditional big men like we had 20-30 years ago.
I think during the mid 2000s their were a significant of big man “busts” because during that time they had to adjust to a system that was turning into a more perimeter centric offense. Leaving traditional big men to suffer. As the perimeter centric offense and defenses started developing so did the next era of center and notice how they are all young as well. Just a piece of mind
100%. This is why you're seeing big men coming up now like Evan Mobley, Chet Holmgren, and Victor Wembanyama from France who will be drafted next year.
@@davidsanotonakap729 Shaq was there in the early 2000's and Duncan had TP winning the FMVP in 2007, Dirk was the first perimeter big man to dominates and KG was a very good face up and midrange shooter . The transition was slow but was still going. Also Shaq and Duncan are top 10 all time players these types of players can play in any era
I truly believe that Shaq’s dominance ruined the Center position for like 10 years in the NBA. Teams had to keep so many giant bodies on their Rosters that had limited skill just so they could foul Shaq 10 times a game. As a result there was a talent deficit in the league for big men and then the league became perimeter oriented.
As someone who in high school played a small center in the late 90s and early 2000s I wish we had players like Giannis in the NBA. I was a 6'3 center who could rim protect, run the break, pass, cut to the basket, good on pick and roll ect. Coach told me to stand under the basket on offense against the other teams 6'8 center lol
6'2 since teens, English so few "bigs"/I was usually the tallest, so always played center. No "handle" but earned the name "black Vlade Divac" for my passing and being often annoyingly wide open cos "not worth guarding" (my guy doubles the ball handler), so many easy late-pass layups/tip ins etc, occasional top of key 3 to win it (NEVER mid game (we played to 11), ONLY "to win it") 😂
@@JSage13 Was racking up "screen assists" before it was a thing - knew I sucked but wanted to play and WIN. Respect possession and communicate with team Played with my share of "Westbrook" shooting over double teams cos "I suck" so why pass to me - lemme me play with smart players that wanna win Hild tight Zaza Pachulia 😂😂🙏🏿🥃
Subscribed for the fact you called out "Jokic is one of the best bigs we've ever seen pass the ball" as a disservice since he truly is one of the best passers the NBA has ever seen.
@@yourhandsomestep-dad2669 Couldn't agree more. You also can't look at the game JUST through stats alone, like he does. I don't think he actually watches games.
@Jon he’s been debunked by other utubers for what I stated above, I’m jus t too lazy to go look up stuff from a couple years ago cuz I’m lazy and I hav to go to work
Man it was a dark time in the early 2010s when some of the best centers in the league were dudes like Roy hibbert, al Jefferson, and deandre jordan… even the absolute best, dwight, Noah, and the gasol brothers (2011-2016) really don’t hold a candle to todays bigs. Glad to see bigs back in dominant form, cause that time period was just sad Before someone jumps on my head, yes I know Duncan played center in that time period, but I just can’t think of Duncan as a center no matter how hard I try. He will always be a power forward for me despite where he’s at on the court.
@@solomontrump the 00's was the power forward era. Duncan, Dirk, KG, Webber, Sheed, Boozer, Pau and we can include some of the fringe stars like Brand, Jamison, Jermaine O'neal and Rashard Lewis. But there was really no dominant true big man besides Shaq and Yao for a short stretch. The only notable centers I could remember during that time were Chandler, Camby and Ben Wallace and they were only known for defense. Stoudemire played center but he's more of a pf for me imo and was only good because of nash. 00's and 10's really lacked dominant centers. When you have Hibbert and Bynum making allstar teams you can definitely see the problem 😂😂
Finally Someone is noticing this! You either need extremely elite efficient shooters to counter an opposing team with a dominant big. All the elite Bigs that can't be stopped are getting to the conference finals or semi finals minimum with the exception of Brooklyn and Golden State. This is why Phoenix lost to Milwaukee they had to play perfect offense and make hard contested shots vs Giannis playing physical and efficient at the rim and making his FT's. Teams are going to have to return to a balance between the 3pt shot and scoring in the post. The league is changing again.
and now Ayton is taking a next step, and remarks how Memphis are winning more now that JJJ is healthy and is a top DPOY candidate same with Robert Williams in the Celtics or Mobley/Allen with the Cavs .These young guys are still more defensive dominant than offensive dominant but you can see that their post/face up game, off ball game and midrange is improving
@@paquinraino8180 They also added more interior defense with Javale and Bismack to try and counter Joel, Giannis, Joker, Towns, and Davis. I think this will be the year the Suns take it all.
@@SPShawny My favorite players All Time are Bill Russell, Bird, Havlicek, and Tim Duncan. I believe Kareem is the GOAT. So, why would you think I’d be lying? You don’t even know me. If you did, you’d know I’m OldSchool. And OldSchool people appreciate the big man.
I don’t think we’ll go back to dominate 90s big men basketball but I do think big man have evolved and adjust to the 3pt era which will bring back Great value back to big man
Giannis' passing is so dominant for a multitude of reasons. 1. He's literally so good that most teams double/triple team him. That's more than half of the people on the court, leaving multiple people open. Just his presence alone on the court helps his entire team. 2. Being the IQ of his passes and making the right reads (Like jokic) has gotten so much better. He's 100% the best 2 way player in the league by FAR. No one comes close.
You can make the arguement that Kawhi is better because of his shooting. If you replace Kawhi on the Clippers with Giannis last year I'm not sure they beat the Mavs, dude was just different. Not saying Kawhi *is* a better two-way player but you can make the case for it.
I mean they were when GSW was winning with Bogut and Speights lol wdym...the point is that the big man was not a priority and it wasn't for a few years.
Kinda crazy that around a decade ago analysts called it the worst era for big men in history. How things change. Also, the development Giannis has had as a passer is incredible. Just 3 years ago in the ECF versus the Raptors that was a major weakness of his.
He's still can't shoot play off ball dribble or have good perimeter defense only low post. Gianni's is overrated after he won his hospital ring but he still has a lot to improve on and will never be the GOAT
Size will always be an advantage. Even if they stack the deck against bigs, all that means is the new bigs come up playing that style and learn to overcome it.
There are still alot of people who think that. They're too focused on being able to shoot the 3. However I am not one of them. Wilt would dominate today's league and would not have to shoot the 3 ball. He could pass like those guys while being bigger, stronger, faster with more stamina and more skill in the post.
I love the video. I had my own musings about the lack of big men many years ago. To me, some of the reasons were because: 1) Zone-defense- zone defenses were said to be legalized in the NBA to combat the constant 1-on-1 iso players as the league looked to increase the pace and scoring of the league. This had been the case for the past several seasons as they constantly tweaked the rules such as enacting the 5-second post-up rule (a.k.a the Charles Barkley rule), shortening the 3-Point line only to move it back as the spacing decreased, modifying hand-checking, and creating the 8-second violation in place of the 10-second one, etc.. A positive about the zone defense was that it was meant to encourage player and ball movement as well as outside shooting. This rule change impacted the big man though, as zone defenses essentially allowed for a double-team to the post-player before he even receives that ball, discouraging the team from giving him the ball. 2) European Influence- It may be forgotten now because of the large frequency of 3-Point shots being taken by everyone, but I recall a period in the early 2000s when it was said that European bigs liked to shoot more as opposed to trying to score in the paint. Players like Vlade, Arvydas Sabonis, Toni Kukoc, and Dirk were known more for shooting unlike their American counterparts. Most Americans were unaware of the foreign rules however, which essentially forced these big men to adapt. 3) Michael Jordan's Influence- This one is harder to prove, but the league that Jordan entered had a general philosophy of constructing an offense around a big man (this is in spite of the dominance of players like Magic and Larry Bird ironically). Although Bird and Magic obviously received a ton of praise for their teams' success, every team in the 80s at that point had a great big man (Kareem, McHale & Parish, Moses Malone). Once the Bulls started dominating in the 90s, Jordan proved that you didn't need a great big man to win a championship. They were famously considered a "donut team" as there was a hole in the middle (i.e.- no Center). However, before the Bulls won their championships, the Bad Boy Pistons similarly didn't have a dominant big. Bill Laimbeer frequently camped outside at the top of the key while Rick Mahorn was never a scorer. For whatever reason, the Pistons never got credit for being one of the first teams to prove that you can win a championship w/o a big man. Fast forward to the early 2000s and you had a lot of perimeter scorers who were influenced by Jordan- Kobe, T-Mac, Vince Carter, Pierce, Iverson, Ray Allen, Jerry Stackhouse, etc. While the most successful teams in that period continued to be run through bigs (Lakers- Shaq, Spurs- Duncan, Kings- Webber), it was clear that Jordan's influence on the game made for more wing players becoming the dominant scorers in the league.
A good indication on where the league is heading is what rules are being changed and which rules are under fire the most? The league made rules against wings stopping in front of other players and initiating contact in the open court.
Giannis is slowly adding everything to his game. Passing and jump shots are the latest ones. He will be a complete package in next one or two year time and that is scary as he is only 27. I see at least 2-3 rings in future for him and bucks. Specially after Lebron, KD and Curry moving out. Kawahi is probably the only other player who can win more rings on his own without a superteam apart from Giannis.
You stated this very correctly. Giannis slowly adding to game. That is my main reasoning stating how King James has had a long high during career. No big men to contest!! NBA has been very weak. NBA has no big man into today's game that would start back in the day!! They lack foot work and ability to defend. Soft babies, with a lot if inconsistencies.
@@fonz112goss4 You don’t know what your talking about 😂😂 nba defenders today are way better rim protectors . Especially with the defensive 3 seconds rule . They have to have good footwork and agility to even start at big .
@@jamesholyfield3304 ?? The 2000's is the lowest scoring average of NBA since the 50's. Due in part because the 3-point was snubbed and also because they have a lot of great rim protectors.
It's a "big man" game - easy buckets. There are far more "average men", and they changed the rules to suit those types. Now the "bigs" can do those things - not sure Simmons was even mentioned (haven't watched much NBA during "bubble", but if he dont at least play "some" Power Forward, he's being wasted)
Yup. He is playing a wrong position. Just cause a player can dribble and pass, doesn't mean that he is a PG and if he is tall, that doesn't make him Magic Johnson. Bucks won a chip after they realized this
Yeah evolution of basketball. Big men adapted, coaches teaching them from young not only to stand under the basket and make layups, but add many more Skillsets. Latest talent with such size is Wiseman.
The traditional big man imo is dead. Nowadays if you are a traditional big, you are a role player. Notice how the best bigs are modernized to today's game with more skill and versatility. AD, Giannis, Jokic, embiid, KAT, Bam, draymond, etc. They are either versatile defenders, 3 point shooters, or playmakers, etc.
@@dansheshe8039 ok...and? I'm trying to understand how mentioning 1 single example of a traditional big succeeding in the modern nba has anything to do with the fact that almost all the best bigs in today's game aren't traditional bigs...
Probably took the longest out of any traditional position player for centers to be modernized, but now that there are more skilled centers to go around the position people will start going for them again.
Great video. I don’t think that big men will come to dominate the same way they did before the small ball revolution, just because I think it’s rare to have players who are both exceptionally talented and physically large. The reason big men in the past could be dominant across the whole league was that they just had to be large and athletic, but nowadays to be a dominant big you need to be skilled as well. Big guys are already quite rare, with a massive proportion of them going into basketball, and skilled guys are similarly rare, so together there’s only a small pool of highly qualified bigs. I think that those kinds of guys could be dominant in terms of leading contender teams, but I don’t think that we’ll see a situation like the past where bugs were almost always the most important player on a team
Well it does make sense...centers and power forwards will always be physically imposing, but like he said, rule changes made them become not as important. However with given time and basically getting their skills up, you have physically imposing players that now have passing and shooting skill sets. Hell just 4 years ago people were saying we're gonna see positionless basketball. Towns, Bam, Embiid, Giannis and Jokic have alot to say about that. Hakeem was the prototype for the modern center
Going off of the obvious comparison between the Robinson-Shaq-Hakeem era and the Jokic-Giannis-Embiid era I wonder if Luka will end up being the dominant perimeter guy a la Jordan (not to the same extent of course). One of the more interesting things in NBA history is that from the time the Mikan Lakers joined the BAA to the end of Kareem's prime the best player in the league was almost always a center, except for a couple of forwards after Mikan retired and maybe Jerry West at the end of the 60s. Then it became that the best guys in the NBA before Jordan emerged as the #1 were either smaller forwards (Bird and Dr. J) or a point forward in Magic. Is the era of a perimeter player or smaller forward as the league's best (mid-late 80s to now with the exception of Shaq's prime and maybe Duncan or KG in the 03-05 span) coming to an end or is it going to be a balancing act between the roles?
This is why I never gave in to the pressures to have a modernized line up whenever I put my GM/Coaching cap on. And why I never will. What goes out will only come back with a vengeance. That's an inevitability. All it really comes down to is cycles. Or turns. Whichever way you choose to look at it and term it. That's all it is. Therefore it will always come back full circle, even if some of the style of play and skills have changed since the last time the player type, skillsets and schemes were the dominant ones. This is also why I refused to say that mid range shooting/scoring is dead or inefficient. With the league so rapidly shifting to score and thus defend drives, cuts and threes, it opens up mid range scoring all over again, as that's where the defense wants you to score from. And go figure, the last two seasons, ESPECIALLY this season, the NBA has seen a immense increase in mid range attempts and scoring, but it also has seen the efficiency skyrocket on them all over again. That's not even really a full decade later. All this is is common sense and understanding how it all works. So in the end, the truly aware and intelligent basketball minds will see the heavy and rapid shifts that happen in the sport not as proof they need to change with it, but rather that it is instead a prime opportunity to exploit that style of play with exactly what they're decrying and teaching against. A lone hold out will inevitably wind up benefiting greatly from doing so and thus not following the rest of the teams, leagues, players and teachers of the sport. This is why even in life itself, you never invest in nor follow a trend. It always will fade just as quick as it became huge, and thus be short lived and very temporary. Of course there's a place to successfully capitalize upon it, but you need to recognize right before it trends back down again.
Cousins was for sure the first center to make the step towards this new playstyle and if he was at a better team and barring injuries, we would be talking about one of the gr8est players in the league.
To add to your point, I'd say Kevin Love was the first big to show us it's possible to shoot 4+ threes, grab 11-14 rebounds and dish out 3-5 assists a night. I didn't think that was possible until he came along.
LOW your a top 5 basketball youtuber on this platform to me and I watch at least 45 different basketball channels rusty is top 5 too shoutnout rusty buckets LOW Big love too you great vid
I think it's because positions are only separated by height, it's only natural that when 7 footers have great handles and can playmake that they'll be the best in the league
Can we really call them big men tho?? Giannis is a slashing point forward that can somewhat shoot and Jokic is a point center….both guys’ game is very perimeter oriented, Embiid is the closest thing to a big becuz he plays more in the post than Giannis or Jokic but even he is very perimeter oriented….none of these guys are like what we think of as big men
The best way to win in any sport is to exploit your opponents weaknesses and have a better all around team. I guess that is stating the obvious but just ask Bill Bellicheck about only passing the ball 3 times in an entire game in the modern NFL. Great players have to be able to adapt and overcome as the game and strategies evolve. That's why I feel like Wilt Chamberlain was really ahead of his time. He was one of the greatest (if not the greatest) scorer, passer, defender and rebounder in NBA history. I feel like big men of today are fitting more into the mode of big men of the past in bein better all around basketball players rather than just role players and under the rim protectors. A 7 footer with handles that can shoot from the perimeter is nearly unstoppable on the offensive end. Then add in modern conditionings and training to keep guys healthy and you got guys that are bigger, quicker and have greater longevity for all aspects of the game. I love basketball. I just wish it was all more about the game than all this progressive social justice bullshit.
Just look at last year's finals. The suns had Ayton as their big guy, while the bucks had Lopez, Portis, and ofcourse Giannis to match him. Giannis averaged damn near 40 that series and dropped 50 in the last game because Phoenix couldn't match him.
