Why Caesar's Legion & the Brotherhood of Steel Should Have Been Allies 

The Legion understands the importance of staying hydrated in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.

I think people really exaggerate the legion's stance on technology all you need to do is look at those hit squads and also an energy weapons deal with the van graffes

Brotherhood T51 power armor but with Legion aesthetic and plumage would look freaking cool. Caesar would essentially have WH40K Space Marines on call

I think it's worth noting that Caesar lets the Enclave Remnants leave because of the high costs to his men and the low reward of defeating the Enclave Remnants. I believe Caesar would likely use this same logic when dealing with the Brotherhood. Additionally, the BOS-NCR war makes this a fantastic opportunity.

*Basically Caesar says:* "show me how good you are fighting without technology first then you can be rewarded with it to become a better fighter" *And the BoS look on and say:* "you know what? I can respect that"

Caesar is the son of Mars in legion mythology, the brotherhood could easily be incorporated as priests of Vulcan, God of the forge (machines) and fire (lasers).

Lost my shit when the frog said “Ave!” lol

Don’t forget that the mysterious client the Van Graffs start a deal with is the Legion. That might be a problem for the Brotherhood

Not gonna lie I wasn’t expecting a tarantula, frog mutualism example to be used. It’s one of my absolute favorite forms of mutualism as a keeper of tarantulas myself.

Legion = imperium of mankind Brotherhood= Mars mechanicus That’s how I would see such an arrangement, both sides leaving each other alone but helping out of self interest.

The perfect alliance doesn't exi-

Would love to see a realistic representation of a power armored BOS soldier fighting off a bunch of melee Legion. The legionaries desperately trying to get a blade in a small crevice or opening while the BOS member is full adrenaline using his super strength to crush and break them but, they outnumber him. Would be like real history when a Knight in steel and chain mail would fight tribals.

Two factions who used history's symbols and customs to define a new way of life in the wasteland teaming up? Should've seen that coming.

As in history and in game, Caesar’s ego was his biggest asset and his biggest detriment.

It'd be cool to see the brotherhood be integrated into the legion as a tech-priesthood like organization, keeping their original goal of preserving technology but also now working on improving it and slowly introducing it into society where it's needed, and serving as heavy troopers and tacticians for advanced weaponry. Praise the Omnissiah and Mars, for one gave us a new world and the other gave us the tools to conquer it.

this has been my dream every other playthrough, BoS/Legion alliance holding them both in check

New Vegas does such a good job of portraying the strengths and weaknesses of each political system. Caesar's Legion, an authoritarian faction, acts with speed and power but is brutally violent, lacks free will, and is politically frail. The NCR, a democracy, has freedom, relatively broad popular support, and is politically stable. But democracies are slow moving and inefficient because of bureaucracy.

Another idea that was cut from the game was for Mr. House to accept NCR annexation of Vegas, in exchange for full NCR citizenship and the Lucky 38 as his property. It's implied that House would have used the trappings of corruption and nepotism within the NCR to become extremely influential in their politics and business regulations.

One of the few good Fallout channels left

Dude, you may have predicted the second season of fallout years before it was even released!

I thought this was a Schizo Elijah video for a second based on thumbnail alone.

Caesar isn't wrong. The Brotherhood is too dogmatic and short-sighted. They could've recivilized the West decades in advance before the NCR rose to its prominence. Instead, they waited until they developed into a threat and got nearly wiped out. The Legion has its flaws but at least it's a solution. The Brotherhood is an active hindrance on the development of human post-war society.

"We had found a massive structure, surrounded by the abominations of the Old World - robots. Their firepower was uncontested, their armor impenetrable, and their fervor in the defense of this place insurmountable, even with our numbers. Then, the Centurion sent a courier out into the waste. Upon his return, ten warriors, clad in shining steel and bearing the Mark of Caesar, accompanied him. Without a word, they unleashed such fire upon the robots that I shook in awe and terror to behold it. The weapons of the foe were turned away by these warriors' plate, who in turn reduced the abominations to nought but slag and ash where they stood. So fierce and awful was the might of these warriors, that they accomplished in a day what our entire cohort could not achieve in a fortnight of combat. Then, we received the order to move on, and let our saviors deal with the structure. No questions were to be asked, for the mission of their order was sacrosanct, I am told. We only know that they protect us from the mistakes of the Old World, these chosen Angels of Mars who alone are blessed to harness the weapons of a bygone age."

Also I think the BoS needs to allow abit more fluidity into their methods. I think Roger Maxsons ideals are good, but to blindly adhere to them with no adaptation to the new circumstances they face over time is an error. Following the tenants exactly worked for 50 years at maximum efficiency, and a century at most, but by the time the NCR formally formed(2182), they should have been working to form a proper territory. A proper territory with a more concentrated Council system would actually allow the BoS to uphold their values more so, not less. Similar to how the Midwestern Chapter did in Tactics, they can screen high end advanced technology, and secure it. But they can also expand their population. Having advanced technology in the hands of an uneducated Wastelander is defining dangerous. But if they choose to join the Brotherhood, and learn how to properly manage it and follow the ideals of the BoS, then they are no longer some Wasteland dolt or Tribal, they are a part of the mission of the BoS. This isn't impossible either, since they had good relations with the Hub and some other groups for awhile. Now I wouldn't do some of the things the Lyons Chapter did, like giving out free water to everyone, because that's just asking for corruption to set in. With their level of technology, and using a similar system of currency to the Sierra Madre chip(though with circuitry integrated into it this forming an energy currency), they could form an economic system, which could fund further trade they need, and to boost their operations. Education systems could also be put in place for the BoS territory. Now maybe some might say "well that's not what Elder Maxsons tents propose" in a sense that is true. But the BoS mission is to preserve technology from the uneducated in the Wastes, and those who would abuse it, such as dangerous factions. And to protect humanity. I believe this means on all fronts, not just technologically. Preserve technology and knowledge, yes. But then put it to good use, not let it be stagnant. The BoS is supposed to be forming a new Path for humanity, and isolationism cannot accomplish that. It had it's place, but it's time for adaptation. Elder Maxson said he was just a man, so he has his own faults, and while I generally agree with his ideals, they aren't some sort of divine law, and I believe they can still be adapted to new circumstances if given proper thought.

BoS and Legion alliances has a pretty good chances in my eyes. Just like US and Soviet cooperation in WW2. Maybe after winning the war against the NCR there will be a tension between the BoS and the Legion but that too seems a bit unikely .Since the BoS is just an organization that is okay with not having a country or state on its own.

BOS: "Sir; give us all your energy weapons" Legion: "Energy weapons? who gives a fuck about energy weapons? what's mine is mine"

As Sgt. Robo said, integrating some faction of the Brotherhood as a Cult of Vulcan would make some sense, being those trusted with collecting technology for the legion, and keeping it away from those not trusted with it yet.

I feel like if the BoS, even if it were just the Mojave Chapter, were to agree to assimilate into the mythos of the Legion, they could continue their mission of collecting technology in near complete peace. Scribes acting as priests, warning of the evils of technology, while Knights and Paladins become something of demi gods, serving the son of Mars in the removal of profane machinery to protect the public.

Never thought about this scenario, but it's interesting, could you also do a scenario where The Legion/Caesar and Mr. House comes in an agreement? Or what if Mr. House managed to bring the entirety of The Great Kahns early on under his command?

man, this video is never been newer

I think Lucius could be used as a diplomat of sorts for Caesar or Lanius to the BoS and in turn it would eventually integrate The BoS considering themselves as having an Elder in Caesar or a Council in Caesars replacements

Interesting stuff! What is your opinion of the theory that in the case of a legion courier, the courier would become Caesars successor? The key evidence being, in my opinion, the end slide where a gold coin is minted in the couriers honor, something that was only done in imperial Rome for the emperor or his chosen heir.

I love the idea of these legion citizens reverently handing over tech to this giant faceless hunk of metal, while just behind the helmet is some awkward teen on their first trip out of the bunker.

Another Yaboii video on the Legion? Pog

Well, what can i say, you reinvented Warhammer 40k with its Imperium of man and Adeptus Mechanicus.

I think it would have been cool if choosing the BOS Elder would allow you to make different Alliances. McNamara would be willing to reconcile with the NCR while Hardin would be willing to work with the Legion as long as it meant revenge against the NCR

OH MY GOD! I've had this idea ever since I've first played FNV but everyone I told this to thought I was insane! It feels so validating seeing my favourite Fallout lore RU-vidr make a video on this topic. Your videos are always a banger! Thanks for continuing to produce such high quality Fallout videos!

As a Brother of Steel, I think the distinction between the Legion being Pseudo-Luddites and rejecting the majority of advanced technology (with the exception of some firearms for elite members, salvaging parts of power armor from skirmishes from the BoS for Centurions, and the hypocritical use of medical technology for Caesars personal usage), and the BoS rejecting harmful technologies like Nuclear bombs and missiles, and things like forced experimentation, and being the Overseers of other technologies, are important. Wether you agree with the BoS views on technology or not.. their goal is to help humanity, but the Legion does what they do out of Caesars wims. Besides that it's a very interesting video. If they did form an alliance, I can see a sort of Brotherhood of Vulcan thing going on. The OWB mod for HOI4 has something like that, and it's extremely fascinating.

Blood, iron and courage is what wins a battle. But only a fool prefers one weapon over another.

Was excited to see this in my inbox, been playing through FNV recently for the first time in six years with most of the viva new vegas mod list on hardcore and have been having a blast

i could imagine the brotherhood existing within legion territory in the same way the fallowers are allowed to exist in legion territory. so long as they dont challenge the legions right to rule, I cant see the legion caring what technology they horde. if they could form an auxiliary unit to the legion that would definitely be appreciated

What I can see It could a treaty like the Treaty of Mars from Warhammer 40K be done between them two .

I could imagine a scenario where after the battle of hoover dam (with a weak willed macnamera still in power, and not the general guy) Caesar turns on the brotherhood in a surprise assault, butchering many, but accepting the surrender of any scribes and children who throw down their arms thanks to a deal with Mcnamera (who in this timeline sold out the Paladin's to save the rest of his people after being told of Hardin's progress towards replacing him by the courier). Once they have their weapons stripped of them and their loyalty broken in for the Legion the surviving brotherhood techies could then become the Legions "Oracles" and serve as a technically separate (but still subservient) entity from it, but with a new codex modified to better mesh with the Legion's faith serving as their founding document by Caesars order.

I could see Ceaser taking a page from Rome's book and appointing the Brotherhood and priests. Able to handle the 'unclean' technology and secure it away where it wont harm the citizens of the Empire. This would fit with the Brotherhood's attitude pretty well Id think. Oh also Caisar knows he needs beuracrats to run his Empire and the scribes would be an excellent source for recruits.

I've honestly been waiting for a video on this topic, and coming from a creator who has quickly become one of my favorites, I rate this a 10/10.

Yaboii; the new age Fallout: New Vegas loremaster. Keep up the great work!

I think kind of the point of those groups in most of fallout is - their ideologies make them unstable specifically because they CAN'T have proper allies as a result of them. The Legion are Imperialists and ultimately they conquer, they don't cooperate. The Brotherhood are Isolationist, which also prevents *most* cooperation in any kind of long term sense.

I once fanfic'd a union between the Enclave and Legion which would be very similar to the Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40k.

7:04 Ironically in some ways BOS are more Luddites then Caesar's Legion. Because atleast Caesar allows high tech technology to some, so long as you earned it in their ranks. Besides being one of the BOS, you aren't getting any tech from em

Man. These videos are so gooooood. Well done!!

All you gotta do is toss a rock down their air vents and clog up the filtration system, they'll come out eventually, on top of that their point of access is surrounded by cliffs on every side. Mines layed at every narrow exit, a few .50s loaded with AP, and a few handfuls peppering them with lighter fire to distract and keep pinpointing of heavier fire to a minimum. The brotherhood hasnt the numbers to pursue, and likely arent as fast and maneuverable as the light infantry as the legion, just run them around at distance like the NCR did at the first battle.

I think this oversimplifies the Legion's stance on technology. The Legion has dealings with the Van Graffs, hoping to acquire energy weapons. They use bombs and guns, radios, cyberdogs, and even a Howitzer. Caesar's use of the Autodoc isn't hypocrisy. He simply forbids chems and painkillers, not medicine entirely. He permits you to perform surgery on him yourself if you so choose. In the post game the Legion wipes out the Brotherhood presumably with weaponry capable of defeating power armor (or using the self destruct bunker codes; either way involve technological knowhow). The Legion even occupies Helios One if the NCR is driven out.They don't share common interests with the Brotherhood because the Brotherhood would seek to confiscate the tech that they acquire. The Legion believe that the over-reliance on technology is a weakness, not a strength, whereas the Brotherhood believes that technology itself is intrinsically dangerous in the wrong hands. Similar, but not the same beliefs, and that's the extent of their similarities. The Legion believes in changing and adapting (as per Caesar's belief in Hegelian Dialectic), whereas the Brotherhood at its core is not interested in change. Also, cut content isn't lore. It never happened. It never will happen, and using it in argumentation isn't definitive.

Legion isn't against tech, they're against the reliance of tech, as they believe you should be able to survive without it.

God Bless The Enclave. God Bless America. The Enclave will make all other factions bow.

4:02 The comedic timing of the sentinel pausing and adjusting their posture is incredible

I'm just thinking that this would all make a really good post-game mod, like a "Battle for New Vegas", set soon after the second battle of Hoover Dam. Legion starts spilling over the river in a vast horde, the NCR masses troops in the Mojave, the BOS takes HELIOS ONE, Black Mountain, and begins recruiting from wastelanders and rebuilding their numbers. The Legion and BOS form a truce and agree to strategically coordinate to remove all remaining NCR forces in the area, with the BOS relaying intel of NCR troop positions through the radio array at Black Mountain to the Fort across the river. The BOS has scouts all over the Mojave in plain clothes, relaying intel so that Legion and BOS patrols can coordinate attacks on NCR... meanwhile, from their giant underground bunker just outside of Cheyenne Mountain in Wyoming, the remnants of the west coast Enclave make their preparations for a full scale military invasion of thousands of Enclave shock troops, looking for revenge against the weakened NCR... I'm imagining that in this mod, Mr. House and his Securitron army would have to be wiped out for this to work... so I would explain this story-wise, as the Enclave showing up in a large scale tactical Vertibird raid, taking over the whole strip, destroying and reprogramming the Securitrons, and ending Mr. House's rain, if he survived or not. This would be an amazing project, like a whole extra game built on to FNV that takes effect when you actually beat the game. A game where you could actually side with the Legion, NCR, (Their main base will likely be a highly fortified Mojave Outpost) Enclave, BOS, and others... Imagine, for example, that the Boomers side with the Enclave and receive Enclave tech and military assistance in exchange for quartering Enclave troops and serving as a strategic airbase for Vertibird raids, making the Boomers a far more powerful faction than they were before. Quests for each faction, including full scale military conflicts and epic battles (Like Broken Steel but way better) including huge underground pre-war military/government bunker complexes, and traveling to different lands to infiltrate and destroy the headquarters of each faction... I've seen some people working on post-game mods and it's very promising. I just want the story and plotlines to continue into "what ifs" to keep it alive and not stale. A mod with a ton of combat and big high-level engagements would be fun, especially with tons of troops you can toss mininukes at for fun... I always felt like FNV had all these great weapons and everything but not enough fun and challenging combat. I want like actual WARS between factions. Like battlefields.

Didn't ceaser send some legionarys go to buy energy weapons during a silver rush quest

fuck it one struggle

"After taking Hoover Dam, the Legion established dual siege lines around both Helios I and Hidden Valley. A single, unarmed Decanus approached the former's garrison with terms for the Legion's withdrawal: the Brotherhood must nominate and send one of its senior members to take Caesar's Mark, and come to the bargaining table. After tense negotiations, an agreement to spare both great bloodshed is reached: the Legion would rule the Mojave without contest from the Brotherhood, who would in turn respond to Legion calls to contain advanced technology, while retaining their current holdings and diverting half of Helios I's output wherever Caesar wished."

The Legion is not a nation of tribals. What we see in FN:V is the military arm of the Legion, but they pacified lands and built cities. F:NV really is a "believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear" kind of deal. Many opinions voiced by denizens of the Mojave don't correspond with the actual situation in-game at all.

"When fallout new vegas, is inevitably, re-released to us all" dont tease me like that

Thing is, by the taking Caesar's ego out of the equation, it takes out most of the Legion as well. Caesar's ego is what led him to become an ultimate warlord over unquestioning fanatics, using an early (and failed) to base his Legion on. He keeps rationalizing his decision with things like "we have to avoid relying on gadgets, so that we can be strong) but his entire mannerism toward the Courier, lies to his allies and hypocrisy in pointing out flaws in others that the Legion also has proves that he's just a power-hungry megalomaniac. By the way: you forgot the mention that the Brotherhood Caesar overwhelms in Hidden Valley are already crippled by the Courier, so it's not like Caesar's Legion is so awesome. It's the exact same case as the NCR outnumbering the Brotherhood at HELIOS and driving them out.

A technologically advanced Legion would be a cool separate faction concept.

14:10 I wouldn't even call Legion enemy of BOS, it's really just Caesar animosity and pride that keeps him from seeing an even bigger picture. BOS are like traitors of the technological world, sure they still use technology but they only do it to hoarde it, it's literally perfect ally faction for Legion. They hoarde tech to not tempt Legion citizens and in return Legion somewhat anti tech ideology keeps tribals away from tech like BOS wants. I'm honestly surprised this such seemless perfect alliance isn't achievable in game

So its the imperium of man and the cult mechanicum...

The Legion is seen to have Anti Material rifles at dry wells, so yes, they stand a much better chance than the swarms of service rifle wielding conscripts did at Helios one

The fire in the rear is probably the only arguement Caesar would listen too, it would be a total NCR defeat in his mind.

Hell, you could argue that Ceasar would have no problem leaving the brotherhood alone temporarily because of his ego and the fact that multiple of his men took down knights before. Similar to every other tribe he betrayed, just biding time and taking advantage of their skills and motives until they were no longer needed. If there's one the legion is good at, it's making friends despite everything else they're doing.

good video, I like the points you made, now I think that as the chapters differed in mission and method Caesar could have allied with some chapters, Caesar may not have gone for it but I think he'd have the option.

You have an odd way of saying certain words. I like it. This whole video was something different, and I like it.

Love your videos man!

For me this just makes so much more sense than a NCR and Brotherhood alliance. Caesar’s legion ruling the wastes with the brotherhood sneakily patrolling and removing tech which could damage the emperors ideals just makes so much sense to me.

"There wouldn't be wastelanders to take tech for power if they are all enslaved or crucified!" -my first thought when i saw this

I always had felt that in the Hardin Mcnamara conflict was leading up to Hardin proposing an alliance with the Legion in which theyd attack HELIOS ONE.

The main reason this wouldn't work is both sides seeing everybody else as inferior. I think NCR/Minutemen would be a great fit teaming up with Brotherhood though. Brotherhood needs resources and manpower and requires to oversee the technology. The other two factions would really benefit from their technological expertise and military might. Alliance where NCR/Minutemen provides the infrastructure, laws and people while Brotherhood is allowed to oversee technology to prevent abuse and concentrate on outside threats as the elite troops (like astartes for all you Warhammer fans) would rebuild the world in no time. Paladins actually protecting the weak and innocent as their name suggests and kids dreaming of signing up with Brotherhood to be a hero.

I’m doing a super bad guy legion melee run rn and Veronica has been my companion. She seems to have no real issue standing outside Caesar’s tent with the praetorian. If you ask her about them directly she’s def not a fan, but apparently not enough of one to refuse to walk around helping them.

great video!

This video might turn out to be one of great significance.

I think an interesting part of all of this, is we already see the Legion going after more advanced weaponry in the finale of the Silver Rush quest line.

Calling SchizoElijah rn

This would be an absolutely insane power couple

"Bethesda has rereleased the same game with microtransactions over and over. They're a dead end"

I just want to watch a bunch of legion recruits try to hack apart a Paladin in power armor with rusty machetes. Really the only thing that could hurt them is anti material rifle and the thematic lance

This has been a very interesting idea to explore I never thought of before, what is next?

they cut this? edit: 14:43 also those weren't scribes if they didn't know maxon, but rather initiates. the Midwest historically since they took a more followers like approach is always critically under-supplied, but unlike other chapters does not lack manpower, even with keeping the potentially fatal initiation trials. but they would not use the name "codex" for there military manual since it is also the name of an accepted religon in the areas "bible"

I also have pondered this alliance. I love it.

The two factions are far too arrogant to tolerate each other's existence

It always struck me odd how the BoS has a higher chance allying the NCR than the Legion Given that the NCR was both at war with the BoS as well as being ideologically opposed to the Brotherhood

Ave, the Emperor protects!

the frog legionnaire was so fucking funny

Very interesting video

I have this mod installed... now I just actually have to finish a playthrough to see it working.

Even the real Roman Empire needed their Gaul Warriors. The Brotherhood of Steel, with their power armor, historically could fill a similiar role. Furthermore, who better to hand over pre-war technology than the technophobic legion. Its like getting your Adeptus Mechanicus early and enjoying it.

10:45 POG Union? 0-o This sounds like some sick, yet beautiful union

adding, the brotherhood can also work a deal, once the legion "becomes civilized" and ready for technological intergration generations to come, the brotherhood can slowly introduce that technology

Ah Yes Cut Game Content of Fallout:NW A never ending Sad Time

Sounds like the Brotherhood of Steel would be the Adaptus Machanicus to the Legion's Imperiam

I remember in a playthrough were the legion attacked me , and one threw a fucking plasma grenade at me.

Spoilers Your wish might've came true in the Fallout show judging by their naming convention and sudden religious aspect of the show's California chapter. Its not just a truce, but synthesis of the two.

Its insane to think that the BOS could be almost a monastic order that coexists with the Legion. Like monk monsataries in the time of Rome