Why Did Buick Survive 

Times are changing on that front though. Buick's sales in China have halved since 2017, and their marketshare percentage as *almost* halved in the same time frame. I remember reading an article from a Chinese automotive outlet ~2 years ago that basically said Buick's image was quickly becoming that of an "Old man's car"... They're quickly falling out of favor, with all the new and flashy Chinese EV startups popping up everywhere in China

Facts! The Chinese are the main reason Buick is still around!

💯

Buick had prestige in China, because the Last Emperor (if you saw the movie) of Qing Dynasty China bought 2 Buicks. Not only that these Buicks were displayed in the National Museum of China, and every Chinese saw it when they visited the Musuem. So Chinese associated Buick = Emperor. So when China opened up in the 1990's and started importing foreign cars, rich Chinese were eager to buy Buick. obviously, that prestige has worn out now, because Chinese are no dummies, and they figured out Buick were not so great after all.

Buick was/is the midway brand between Chevrolet and Cadillac. To Harley Earl, Buick was a large family car representing “near luxury” but not the ostentation of Cadillac. As Jay Leno says, “ When Buick was still Buick”, meaning a unique marque, built in Flint at “Buick City”, with their own torquey “nail valve” V8s and super-smooth Dynaflow transmissions, they were a distinct choice with size, comfort, quiet, and luxurious interiors that were “playing above their pay grade” with a little headroom above them for the boss to be driving a Cadillac. While they were still somewhat independent, they coughed up some really nice sporty luxury models like the Riviera. Now, as a corporate mid-liner, and no longer powered by a “Buick Eight”, they are a nicer trimmed Chevrolet 4 or 6-cylinder generic SUV, somewhat like an Escalade is a nicer trimmed Suburban. I hope they will bring in the very nice Electra E5 from China, where they seem to know how to build EVs, to give GM some credibility in BEVs, which they are currently sorely lacking, before they go tits up again at the corporate level, but who knows what Scary Mary will decide to do; she seems to have few clues how to run an auto company, certainly no skills like a Bob Lutz or Lee Iacocca.

Pontiac did have the reputation you describe among some (those who ignored the Vibe, for example), but those of us who remember earlier Pontiacs did not attribute trying new things to Pontiac. They built some beautiful cars and I consider myself a fan of Pontiac. However, as late as 1954 your engine choices in a Pontiac, essentially built on a 1949 chassis, were antediluvian L head engines. I owned two 53's as a young man. Good cars. Not great cars.

Chrysler had DeSoto as "the innovator" This NEVER works out well!

I always thought Oldsmobile was the experimental division, the toronado first fwd GM car, their slogan was “always a step ahead” Pontiac was the younger driver with the gto and firebird, I thought Buick was low end luxury, below Cadillac, which I thought was an old man’s car, because they could most afford it and appreciate the prestige that went with it. I always thought that the Olds ninety-eight was a better riding and just as luxurious as the caddy de villes. Chevy was the lowest pried GM car, offering basically the same cars as the other GM divisions , although the caprice till they got the round battleship look. They started sharing engines that diluted the uniqueness of each division, olds had Buick engines , GM did themselves in by trying to cut corners, quality suffered and then they never upgraded the assembly plants and outsourced to Canada and Mexico. At a time when gas prices were high they brought out the hummer , essentially a military vehicle in consumer use? Who could afford them and keep the tank filled. Nuff said on this. We’ve given away the store.

@@tonymanzo3766 It matters little which makes were eliminated; those retained sell CUVs and SUVs. Olds had an automatic transmission in 1939, the Rocket OHV V-8 in 1949 both long before the Toronado. Pontiac was still limited to L heads in 1954. What a persson percives depends on what they know of the history and whether they can see what has happened in the marketplace. Buick was the marque GM was built around and the sales leader at BOP most of the time. The GM that built all three makes is no longer. It was liquidated in bankruptcy.

@@Bikes0420 None have caught fire

Volvo is also dropping sedans from the US market unfortunately

Lincoln launches new sedan in China

Don’t forget Mao, one of the few western doodads he liked

Thank you.

As you said, Buick is actually the oldest existing US car company (not only in the US, but one of the oldest continuous nameplates in the world). Buick is the company from which GM evolved - it's founder was born in Scotland and the brand has a decent racing history as well. They were one of the first companies to have their motors used in mid-engine La Mans cars (predating Porsche, Ford and Ferrari). The 80's and 90's didn't do the brand any favors, but the new styling (thanks to foreign markets) is headed in the right direction. Buick has never capitalized on its history - and they really should. Full disclosure - Buick Regal TourX owner here :) ... and "Ja ja", I know it's an Opel built in Germany.

@@ivantuma7969 Buick may be the oldest in the U.S. but I don’t think it is the oldest in the world. I believe Vauxhall and Peugeot are older.

@@sniper60605 My bad ... yes - oldest existing auto manufacturer under the same name in the US ... in the top 10 worldwide.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.*” Puyi, the last ruler of the Qing dynasty and final Emperor of China was driven around in a Buick. Sun Yat-sen, a Chinese revolutionary statesman, physician, and political philosopher who served as the first provisional president of the Republic of China (ROC), was driven around in a Buick. Chiang Kai-shek a Chinese politician, revolutionary, and military leader who served as the leader of the Republic of China, and as its Generalissimo, was driven around in a Buick. Soong Mei-ling (aka Madame Chiang) the former First Lady of the Republic of China, as a young girl, was driven to and from school in a Buick. Later, as wife of Chiang and First Lady, she was driven around in a Buick. And, lastly, Mao Zedong, the founder of the People's Republic of China (PRC) was driven around in a Buick until 1958 when the Chinese automaker FAW Car Company launched the Hongqi (Red Flag) brand. The current version of which is more akin to a 2023 Rolls-Royce Phantom VIII and more or less restricted in use to the Chinese elite. To the Chinese, Buick was always, and still is, THE aspirational brand. Cadillac never entered the picture. GM knows their own history with the Chinese very well. By 2009, Oldsmobile had already been shuttered and Pontiac had become a dead-man walking. Meanwhile, in China, people were standing in line to buy a Buick. That's why the Buick brand survived and its sister-brands didn't. While serving in the U.S. Navy, I was stationed in Taiwan (1962-64). This is when I first learned of the Chinese fascination with the Buick brand. At the time, they had a similar fascination with General Electric (GE) appliance products. Bit of trivia: When the Gissimo and Madame Chiang arrived for JFK's memorial service in late November 1963, they were riding in a highly polished black, bullet-resistant, 1955 Cadillac six-window limousine. Buick had not offer a limousine in 1955. * George Santayana, writer and philosopher

it's a shame because there were quite a few cutlass and delta 88 models that seemed to run forever

I was a loyal Oldsmobile customer since 1996.

Young whippersnappers compared to Buick owners.

GMC was a trucking company that gm was eventually built upon. They were building trucks years before Chevrolet came into existence. Buick was the automobile cornerstone GM was built upon all owners were added after fact like Oakland motors which changed thier name to one of thier models, called Pontiac. However Buick was always the stable division throughout GM.

Basically when GM was Government Motors the bureaucrats decided what would stay and what would go. The Government wanted to play to China so that is what stayed. It had nothing to do with markets. Without the bailout the whole of GM would have disappeared.

That was the start of the fall of general motors when they took away all the different engines and drive trains and they used Chevy for everything the people did not want that the cars are all the same just a different name and all three of the American car companies did the same

I can’t imagine it being just Chevrolet and Cadillac as the “new GM”…would have been weird to me.

that was the whole point of the brand structure that began under alfred sloane in the 1920s. olds was originally at the top but was moved down due to cadillac being aquired-(1909) then in the 1920s chevrolet mas made theentry level brand. creating the ladder structure as such with buick and olds switching places as well. Chevrolet, oakland, oldsmobile, buick then cadillac. with gmc being used as the coach/truck brand and being sold with oldsmobiles or buicks. then the companion program came out in the mid 20s giving all makes a second make to sell. (excluding chevrolet)oakland-pontiac oldsmobile-viking, buick-marquette and cadillac-leSalle. pontiac ended up out selling oakland and that divison was renamed as such and the previous brand ladder- structure remained after the companion make experiment failed.

I recently bought my first car, originally thinking of buying a Chevy but ended up buying a Buick. Because Buick has more power, this positioning is problematic in China, because only unmarried young people will pursue power. Married people will want to buy a family car with enough space and fuel efficiency. Cadillac's image in China is that the nouveau riche will buy it. car.😂😂

@@ScrotieJohnson Olds was never at the top. When General Motors was formed, Buick was the only company until Olds was purchased in 1908. The Olds Model R was the lone vehicle that Oldsmobile Division produced, and it was priced well below that of the Model G, which was Buick's entry level vehicle. When Cadillac was acquired in 1909, Olds got one premium model priced above the base Cadillac, and one budget vehicle priced below the Buick, which would often be the case throughout the life of the Olds division. (That is, the top of the line Olds, like the 98, usually cost more than the entry-level Cadillac, and the cheapest Olds usually overlapped with Pontiac or Chevrolet.) The division itself was never placed above Buick or Cadillac, even in the early days when it was just those three marques.

@@RockandrollNegro sibefore and after the purchasing of cadillac they produced the oldsmobile limited which was the top of the line car gm built as well at the oldsmobile model z. circa 1910-1914. heck,the 1908 model d was even more expensive and fancier costing double the price of the top tier cadillac. Olds was up a rung from buick after its purchase, then cadillac was purchased olds hadnt been pushed down a rung yet as the alfred sloan era ladder hadnt been established so u had brand producing cheaper cars and large luxury cars. so im not wrong and neither are u- they over lapped a ton but olds did have the top of the line models til after i think 1912-1915 when they started in with the 8-16 cylinder offerings.

GM is laughing stock not only in America but the rest of the World too! (Besides China!)

& Toyota pepo don't get fired ifn they bring up problems

No one cares. Toyota is far behind in the EV race. Sales of its gasoline and halfbreed models have started to collapse. By the time they get up to speed half their factories will be empty.

The 2007 Camry is arguably the worst quality and least reliable Camry ever built. Poor comparison.

Exactly. I officially left the GM plantation when they got rid of Oldsmobile first.

I think you mean the Chevy Nova built in the old NUMMI factory

Whoops! Correc t. It's funny how I can stare at something and not see it. @@canonet17

There is enough difference that it did matter. I’ve owned a Geo Prizm and a Corolla. Toyota dirty bits and had relatively little trouble with them. However, the Prizm had GM radio and HVAC. Guess what parts I had to replace in the Prizm but not my subsequent Corolla? That’s right, the Radio and A/C compressor. There was enough AC Delco bits in the Prizm (and the Pontiac Vibe I had before the Corolla) to drive me to get the Toyota for my oldest daughter.

Many people who had been (or would have been) Packard enthusiasts before it's merger with Studebaker gravitated towards Buick. Some claim it was the choice of doctors and engineers. Since Caddy did not have a station wagon (except for hearses). Those who wanted a station wagon rather than a truck and could afford a Caddy often bought Oldsmobile's. Pontiac always seemed like an upscale man's (performance-type car) chevy to me. Women did not (usually) gravitate towards Pontiac's. BTW: That Azteck SUV was horrible! in every way.

3800 literally was developed decades before.

​@@here_we_go_again2571Ironically the Aztek is the first version of every suv/crossover today. All of the same concepts sizes and styles in some cases

@Jmeon4eva yes, but it was carried through three iterations by buick well into the 2000s. Millions of the things were produced. Olds and Pontiac just didn't have those kinds of numbers to back

@@Jmeon4eva The AMC/Jeep Eagle (1980) was the earliest (It even came in a convertible) The Subaru all wheel drive was popular in the 1970's The wagon came in 2 models one was a little bit higher (and the cab more squarish) than the other (the lower one drove almost like a plain car)

Note the term “HAD”.

​@@DS-wo8wrBuick still does, they've been near the top of jd power ranking for about a decade

@@samuelsabo9493 Seems odd as all Buicks are well equipped Chevys… which aren’t “reliable” by JD Power. On top of that, most are built in Korea by Daewoo or in China.

@@DS-wo8wr I agree with you it's odd as they are the same

I agree...and even with SUVs taking over most of the market, sports coupes and hot hatches have remained popular, and wagons are gaining a revival since many people discovered their SUV is too tall for their garage door or car port, and they have no street parking where they moved to. I think a next gen Pontiac Firebird/Trans Am, and a re-envisioned Vibe would still be selling well today at the right price point. And it shouldn't have been that hard to take a couple existing SUV platforms (a crossover and a mid-large size) and made a sporty well handling SUV like a BMW X3 and X5, but cheaper and with Pontiac logo and style. Car industries are a mess, and if WW3 breaks out(keeping my fingers crossed), the current car market will mean nothing for awhile.

Pontiac had lost any shred of identity. Did you know that Pontiac offered a 3,000 lb RWD car with 145 bhp per liter in 2009? No, you didn't, and neither did the rest of the public.

Pontiac was already struggling way before the Government bailed out GM, Pontiac made great cars from the 1960’s the Catalina, Bonneville,The hot selling Pontiac lemans in the early 1970s all the way to the late 1980s with their best selling small sized coupe and sedan the Grand AM ,after that run , they were a struggling brand.

Well if people went to Honda or Toyota it was because they wanted reliability with economy.

@@RT-mm8rq That's fine but don't complain when Pontiac and Oldsmobile are discontinued because of poor sales.

Hondas and Toyotas are just much more reliable cars

Pontiac was out selling Buick 3 to 1 in 2009

@@tomcherry7029 My Grandfather owned a beuatiful 66 Pontiac Grand Prix. I loved thier cars and could not believe they killed the name over Buick.

Until the DeLorean "wide-track" 60s, Pontiac was just a Chevy with more chrome, they didn't get a V8 until the 50s. The brand took off in the 60s with the GTO and the Firebird and that image continued until the 80s, when they again became a Chevy with different plastics. Their attempt at a "performance" brand with stuff like the 2-door sports car and the reborn GTO also stepped on the toes of GM's largest US brand- Chevy. So I imagine the killing off of Pontiac was also influenced by the Bowtie bunch at GM.

Yeah, but IT ROCKED!

I saw a Pontiac Aztec at a car show in San Jose, CA when they first came out. There was a janitor with a mop bucket stationed near the vehicle at all times to clean up the puke from the many viewers that lost their lunch after seeing it in person.............just kidding, but what was GM thinking?

I'm an Oldsmobile fan myself but yeah. I still miss Pontiac.

Same here..I owned two Fiero GT's with the 5 speed , Sunfire and I still use my 2008 Grand Prix with the legendary 3.8 liter V-6 as a work car to put miles on when I drive for my small business.

@@captainmorgan5449 Yeah, I had an '88 Fiero Formula with a 5-speed. Wish I still had it!

I owned two Fiero GT's. 1986, 1987. My 87 was mint. A girl came thru a red light and it was done. It was a safe car...the cage did not implode. My 1986 was not mint and I regret selling it in 2006. The 88 Fiero GT was the best.

At the end Olds brought out the Aurora, which was a decent vehicle, and probably an intent to rebrand the division. But one car couldn't change the image among the Cutlasses.

Oldsmobile was always a tech car with very fast motors. It was never a “family” car. It was a sport luxury brand. I liked Oldsmobiles.

I remember the ads with Ringo Starr saying, "This is not year father's Oldsmobile!" Cute ad, but I was never inspired to actually buy one. Last time I looked at a Buick was its compact SUV because of its big chrome grille that looked retro. But it deserved the derision it got as "the world's biggest baby shoe."

But that was not your fathers Oldsmobile

Honestly. If GM goes out of business at some point. I wouldn't miss them one bit.

GM began standardizing body structures and chassis decades before the infamous four identically shaped A-body sedans appeared on the cover of Business Week in the 80s. They did much better job of hiding what was shared in the earlier decades, and allowed their badge engineered commodity strategy to show thru later.

GMs best brand in China is Buick. But Buick still seems to have some family-women oriented buyers in the US.

@@mrgurulittle7000 Times are changing on that front though. Buick's sales in China have halved since 2017, and their marketshare percentage as *almost* halved in the same time frame. I remember reading an article from a Chinese automotive outlet ~2 years ago that basically said Buick's image was quickly becoming that of an "Old man's car"... They're quickly falling out of favor, with all the new and flashy Chinese EV startups popping up everywhere in China

@@Black-VillainBut Buick is with SAIC, and SAIC has some good EV technology which they are sharing with Buick. Yes, Buick sales halved since 2017, but a lot of other automakers have experienced similar declines as well. And on the bright side, 95% of those hundreds of Chinese EV startups filed for bankruptcy and insolvency.

Then let them keep that miserable piece of shit in China so we can stop building showrooms for them here

My only Pontiac was a Parisienne. I was actually looking for a Chevy Caprice but found a really clean Parisienne for a good price. Unfortunately the car got destroyed by a drunk driver turning into me just a few days after I bought it.

They absolutely made the right decision to keep Buick and kill Saturn. Whatever success Saturn had would be in the 90s by 2002 production and sales declined every year.

An upmarket Saturn? No.

Hell yeah. One of the best cars I ever had was my 2001 Saturn SL2.

@@ButterfatFarmsAgree 100%. Saturn morphed into exactly what it was never supposed to be... just another badge engineered GM brand... the reason GM went bankrupt!

The legendary 3.8 was the best engine GM made. It is still going strong in my 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix. 213k

@@captainmorgan5449 My uncle has one with around 200k miles in an 05 LeSabre and it runs great. He's a mechanic so he'll keep it running for a long time.

That's a great point, giving up the legacy names to chase the alphanumeric trend.

@@AllCarswithJon I almost want to say Pontiac was going after the BMW naming, especially the naming of the M3 and M5, as an example.

I think Lincoln and Cadillac are now suffering with dumb algebra names.

Good morning!

@@AllCarswithJonMorning!🙂

LOL!!!

Toyota

I remember trying out those Cobalts. At 6'3" I could never fit in those things, even with the seat all the way down I'd be hitting my head agains the roof. Even the Sonics were better designed in the headroom department than the Cobalts.

1970 Buick GS455 with the Stage 1 package was not on your radar apparently. It ran with (and away from) the best of them. Sorry Poncho and Olds! An RAIII or W30 would need some luck (and to go on a diet) to beat a Stage 1 with a 3.91:1 rear gear. Sure it was rare. Lots of fast cars were.

@@bbb462cid They were fast. A friend of mine had a 1970 in our senior year, obviously wealthy parents.

Buick sold really well in US, as a value leader for semi luxury, same features as Caddy except 12-15 large less. I have had 4 Buicks for that very reason.

Pontiac shoulda been the middle and Buick limited to China

That's what I thought too (NA vs. Pontiac)

The start of Woke

Thanks so much for the comment!!!!!!

I feel for you. where I live Cadillac has to share a showroom with those sorry fuckers. when I last went there I was amazed to find Blackwing sedans in the showroom considering that neither of those two brands build anything except SUVs

Excellent thoughts, and I somewhat agree. The root problem really goes back to (at least in my opinion) when Roger Smith reorganized GM. The divisions, that had some autonomy, largely lost it. Corporate platforms, corporate engines, etc. Sometimes they looked and felt different, other times not so much. But then they also added the GEO brand, Saturn, Saab, Hummer.... I completely agree if they'd invested in each brand (which runs counter to their strategy of saving money) you could have more distinct brands standing out more in the marketplace. But that still doesn't excuse some of their 'strategy'. For example, tailoring Chevy for "American" car buyers, while perhaps using Saturn for "Import" car buyers. Add the ill-fated GEO to that, and you had GM actually creating competition against themselves. And lets look at the 'Premium' space. I think it's too narrow for both Olds and Buick to exist. Sure, you could make Olds the "Import" premium competitor - but I think that would take distinct chassis and powertrains to really work. Appreciate you being here!

@@AllCarswithJonAgree, and good point I missed where you said that the brands were competing against each other. I guess that’s where the “hierarchy” comes in to differentiate between the brand market segments, but we all know that strategy totally collapsed also. And you’re right; Olds and Buick would be competing against each other. Somehow in my mind, though, Olds seems more masculine luxury, and Buick more feminine or family luxury. Maybe that would’ve separated their targeted market. Or like you said, Olds could’ve been an “import feeling” brand while Buick the American one. I’m sure there was a way to squeeze in Olds somewhere in the GM hierarchy. Too bad they didn’t make it though. PS: One brand i don’t mind being gone is Geo.😂🤫

@@AllCarswithJonAlso, the part where you said “investing in each brand goes counter to the idea of ‘saving money’”, that I think is where GM should’ve spent their money. From the beginning of General Motors to bankruptcy, all GM did with the money they accumulated was to buy more companies instead of reinvesting into what they already had. I feel like if they invested in core technologies that each brand could’ve shared, and just given the rest of R&D money to each division to differentiate themselves and market themselves, then a lot of money could’ve been made and saved in the long run. Anyway, sorry I keep getting to “into” this stuff. It’s fascinating though. Here’s a video idea you could make where you explain on how GM was poorly run, and how it should’ve been run to save all those iconic legacy brands. I would definitely stay tuned for that.👂💯

@@mrgurulittle7000 I'll ponder that video topic; it feels like the answer is to NOT do everything Roger Smith did in the 80s! LOL

I like this notion. I was a die hard "GM guy" until my late 20's. Wouldn't own anything but a Chevy or AT LEAST another GM brand. I honestly believe GM's problem for decades was not only platform sharing, but doing so in the wrong way entirely. I feel each division should have been more targeted and specialized, with fewer models actually focusing on that specialization. Perhaps more divisions may have survived without the endless "badge engineering."🤷‍♂️

1.2 liter turbo, no thanks. Envista looks great tho, too bad

Envista sounds like a name from a weight loss drink😁

and give it sick color names, like a blood red color called "Sacrifice", a gray color called "Temple', a brown color called "Ayahuasca", ect ect. 😂

I had a 92 Roadmaster that was an absolute dream ride at high speeds on long trips. Also had a 86 Skylark V6 that was fun to drive, fast and cornered great. Both suited their purpose and I miss them both.

LOL. Probably. :)

Never seen it!

The legendary 3.8 V6. Best motor GM ever made.