Why Did PCGS Label My Coin Like This? I've Never Seen This Before! 

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Im thinking slot machine. I know many years ago the Las Vegas casinos used silver dollars in their slot machines.

I would just call it altered surfaces.

Good morning! Thanks for making the informative videos. My son and I have questioned some of the grades our coins have received. PCGS grading isn't cheap. You know good and well the PCGS grading process involves a procedure (perhaps checklist). Why can't PCGS include a copy of the coin's grade procedure and explanation/justification of the grade? Hank from S.C.

That's a new one to me. Thanks for sharing. That's a nice educational keeper

Thanks Daniel!

thanks Daniel.

Love your videos keep up the great work very informative and entertaining

I have many coins with those lines,,,always in the field, never on any raised areas. I always thought of them as feeder marks or over polished die lines. Curious to see what you come up with.

Its possible that they correctly assessed UNC details but assessed the wrong problem on this coin meant for another Morgan dollar. They constantly deal with so many submissions Daniel. Is my opinion a possibility?

Another fascinating video, Daniel! Am thinking ICG might give it an MS65. 😉

I can't say I've seen that on a PCGS holder Daniel. If I have, I probably passed over it. I dont see machine damage on it. Sometimes it makes you wonder. If they would only explain what they see instead of just putting something on the label and expecting the owner to figure it out.

I had one that was previously labeled ms64 that came back machine damaged and a coin dealer said it was possibly a coin counter. Pcgs graded it both times. Once ms64 and second time machine damage unc details

1st time for everything, learn something new everyday

Actually, once in a blue moon I've come across a coin that was apparently purposely defaced. For example I had a penny that had a triangle carelessly scratched into the obverse, ruining the coin. Apparently some people have mental lapses sometimes.

That’s a stumper. Thanks Daniel

As a casual observer I'd say that those scratches above the date happened to the blank before the coin was struck.

The fine lines in a way resemble planchet striations.

I was looking through ebay at 1969 s doubled dies the other day, closest I've seen to that is "Genuine wrapper dmg"

Never seen or heard that used on a PCGS label, either it's a new phrase for them or you have a rare one of a kind holdered dollar that should go on Etsy. ;)

Interesting. There's a 1921 Peace Dollar AU Details Machine Dmg on eBay and it's difficult to say what they're referring to on that one. Lots of scratches on the holder plus bad photos. Looks straight up AU Details to me best i can tell.

Hi Daniel.Ya that is a little weird. 😊

Are we sure this is caused by post-mint damages? The fact that the lines on the obverse are on the field but not the device strongly suggests it’s either a planchet damage or something happened with the die, maybe polish marks (over polished die, which is plausible seeing the proof-like surface). Perhaps that’s what “machine damage” implies per PCGS. Hope this helps

it's feeder finger damage from the mint in the making....many people collect these on ebay...it's fairly common

Likewise, I have a newer $0.25 Washington facing right quarter, in and that the date has diagonal rays above the date too. It's not on other quarters I've noticed. Else, I'd show you a picture, if it were capable of being uploaded here. Ask, if interested.

I agree with Justathome probably a slot machine because really didn't use very sophisticated machines.

How about a Vegas Slot machine pulling the coin into the holder.

The machine that damaged it is most likely a counting machine, it would have had a small rubber or leather wheel that grabbed the coins and likewise hairline them. I have one coin with this label I'll see if I can get a photo.

A coin counting machine that utilized a rubber wheel. When the coin got stuck, the wheel would slip on the coin polishing a very small area. Often they are hard to see.

On there website it says it doesn't have to be intentional damage. They also mention it can be damage from a coin counting machine. That's it 🤷‍♀️

Great looking coin ......but very strange marking on it (?) . This is a first fer me . Thanks Dan , Tom Daytona Beach , FL . 3 , June 2024 .

Very good and interesting video Daniel.

There appears to be what looks like a roll wrapping mark on the reverse between the rim and ERICA in AMERICA? Or check that damaged area? Looks non contact mark and more like damage. 2:48

I’m noticing the scratch marks are behind the date. I could be wrong.

Late last year,purchased a 20.00$ dbl eagle,slabbed and graded by pcgs.marked as a 10.00$ coin and cleaned,neither applied.aparently theres issues there.

Exactly I got my 1862 $20 gold back it had a small scratch they said it was upgradable. I'll never send another one

Back in the day, did people not feed these coins into gambling machines? I’m thinking that maybe there is a situation where maybe inside the shoot there was a part that could do that? Totally a guess on my part

Thank you

I think they are saying that was done by a high speed soft brush wheel, caused by too much pressure being applied.

I've seen "Whizzed" on an NGC label. Someone did that to a '55 double die and sent it in for grading.

Beautiful 81-S, aside from the localized cleaning. Those early S mints rock.

In 1977 I was in Las Vegas with 4 friends. We saw a slot machine that paid in silver dollars. Each of us ponied up a buck and on the 4th pull we won $20 and split it 5 ways. I believe I still have them comingled with others I have accumulated.

This is damage from a coin roller. I appreciate PCGS for recognizing this unfortunate damage came from equipment designed to package for shipping large amounts of coins.

A new person on their mile long assembly line doesn’t know the proper grading language! Have a great day Sir Daniel!

Ok sir quick question. Cleaning a coin with magic eraser . it's a sponge pad not a pencil top. ..... Thoughts? 👀inquiring mind wants to know lol

I'm stumped. I don't even know how they did that. How do you only get the low areas between the date without getting the date and liberty as well?

Good morning Daniel from Maryland .

I had just sent two 1943 steels and PCGS graded both as replated. Who would replate a steel cent? My bank gave them to me. Have you heard of it before?

Everything is speculative until someone like Daniel with the experience and expertise can identify. To me it appears the 2 areas in question are very specific, the "rough" areas dont appear to have hit raised areas except possibly the date. Since you have determined coin was cleaned id have to say that in the process of enhancing the coin whoever dis that was maybe trying to remove "spots" that didnt come off during said " enhancement".

Can see exactly what they are meaning with that label. Most definitely a dremel or jewelers drill with a burnisishing tool/tip or fine wire wheel. The date, the stars, and other lettering appear to have been 'enhanced' as an artificial frosty appearance has been created. Looks like the tool got away from them in a couple places (like around the date numerals) helping to give it away. Thanks for the share.

I think the fact that CAC has come on the scene, they may be trying to be more honest with a grade. I have never seen a PCGS coin with that grade that I can think of either (this one is on ebay right now though) "1936 DDO FS-103 (FS-016) PCGS Genuine Machine Dmg-Unc Details" Awesome video, thanks for the new info.

I love unsolved mysteries. I hope you start a series of them. Is it possible that the coin was encased in cardboard and cellophane when a fire broke out which melted the cellophane onto the coin? The bottom received the most damage and the top edge also suffered some water damage. It was probably cleaned with a steel wire polishing brush.

Nobody can make perfect parallel lines with a Dremel. I can't really tell if those lines come up onto the devices. If they don't, then the scratches were there before the coin was struck, right. If that's the case then can't you appeal the grade.......Love the channel.

Does the machine dmg rating affect the value a lot, a little or not at all?

Its damage from coin counting machines. It's not new, but it is unusual. 🤷‍♂️

I JUST WANDER IF YOU SUBMIT THIS MORGAN DOLLAR TO CACG OR NGC HOW THIS COIN WOULD COME BACK WITH A GRADE OR NOT??

Something happened during the machine process at the mint. It is at least a rare label indeed

The printing machine has an error and it results in the labels saying "MachineDmg" Just kidding, idk.

MAYBE? They are using a more descriptive term other than WHIZZED?

Did they mean wheel mark from a counting machine that's what I assume I never seen that label before but have seen wheel mark on labels.

Why send it in?

Thats weird. Maybe it was a prospective date change that was not fully carried through or it was put there to disguise a blemish. I Hope you get a great answer to your question that puts this conundrum to bed once and for all.

40 years of grading and I'm stumped.

That's not feeder finger damage?

back in about ‘07, I would purchase coins from a reputable local coin shop, and I would ask two or three other experts in the area, other coin shops: Should I send this in to PCGS? They would look at it and say that, “it doesn’t look like it was cleaned, send it in.” So I would send it in and a month later it would come back, “CLEANED” and not even in a holder. Now, nowadays they do put it in a holder ‘with details.’ So, thusly, nowadays the only coins I will buy are PCGS MS70 and PF70 ASE. What experts have postulated is that, for example, on your Morgan dollar. PCGS wants to keep the population of graded coins, down, so as to not ruin the value of the coins already graded. I have heard from coin shops that, PCGS is: P - Preferred C - Customer G - Grading S - Service. More on this later.

I wish we could actually talk to the individuals who assigned the grade to see what machine they think did this. I am no kinda of expert but I can’t imagine a machine that would scratch up the fields but NOT the raised devices. Anybody?

The coin has a lot of chatter all over it.

Interesting

Whizzed and polished.

Hello Daniel

With as much as we pay to get coins graded, they should come with a personally written breakdown of each coin and its grade and at least a brief of why it received the grade it did. I pay roughly the same to have my oil analyzed and I get a note from the person doing the analysis. Then you wouldn’t have to ponder this quandary.

That’s the first I’ve seen. It seems like an unnecessary thing for PCGS to make a determination on the cause of an issue. That machine sure was very specific in its damaging. I’m not sure I buy that reason and don’t see the need to make a guess.

PCGS broke my heart with my latest submission

I got a pcgs slabbed con say genuine tool damaged

I think either a coin counting machine or possibly hung up in a mint machine. Hand polishing just can't match the symmetrical lines. Still thinking they could have labeled it at least MS64

I have seen them with "wheel marks"

IMHO, machine damage due to insertion on a casino slot would have occurred on the devices more than the field itself or both. The lines are only on the field...hum, grading is an opinion 🎉

I would call PCGS and ask what exactly machine damage is. my guess is machine is a general term to mean any instrument that could cause damage unless someone processed this in a machine counter at some point in time.

INTRUSION ON TRUST

On the upside, I’m sure some collectors would like to have rare curios like this in their collection.

Casinos used to use silver dollars for their machines. Could those marks have been made by the slot machines or the casino cleaning them in some way?

Human grading is outdated and inconsistent. PCGS need to use AI grading.

I can see a coin rolling machine but that doesn't qualify for that coin plus it's details on top of machine damage they minus well just put authentic Morgan dollar on the slab

Like Harsh cleaning that is what I see

That looks to me like a die issue....scratched or improperly polished. No machine did that.

When one pays for a grade, one should receive a grade…not an opinion on a coin’s’ butt hairs… Give it a grade PCGS..!!! I’d be cracking that slab and switching grading companies…

why do you keep using them pcgs and what not is a total scam

I would never pay for someone "opinion". what a scam!

Damage is damage is damage. Bag marks and denticle impressions are damage. Grade the dang coin, taking into account the damage, and stop with the details stuff. The polished designation is infuriating too. 27-S Unc Peace $ - has frost, swirls, no fine lines yet details polished with no explanation. The horror....a shiny coin.

Not at all Dan, I have tool and die exp and the parallel lines under the bust to the date weren't done by hand, a Dremel, no effin' way, those lines were on the hammer die in that area and the super small area they're in, plus like I mentioned the parallelism between lines in would make a mould polisher laugh.

Probably some die touch-up that an earlier owner tried to rub out a bit? 3:31

I’m noticing the scratch marks are behind the date. I could be wrong.