Why Didn't Elrond Take the Ring from Isildur to Destroy it? | Lord of the Rings Lore | Middle-Earth 

Two reasons. 1: because to take the ring from Isildur would create a rift between man and elf which would likely result in war 2: because like Gandalf Elrond was wise and knew that if he so much as layed hands upon the ring he would become a tool of the evil within.

We're told that no one, literally no one, not one single person anywhere on Arda, not even Sauron himself possessed the will to intentionally destroy the One Ring. Its power there in the Sammath Naur was simply too great for anyone to overcome no matter who they are or how strong their will might be. It could only be destroyed in the exact way in which it was destroyed, by an "accident" guided by Illuvitar himself. Or, if you prefer, by the One Ring itself forcing Gollum to obey Frodo's final command to him and cast himself into the Fires of Doom. For Gollum had sworn an oath to obey Frodo's commands on the One Ring itself, and as Frodo warned him, "It will hold you to your word. It is more treacherous than you are." In this version of events the One Ring essentially causes its own destruction just as evil always does in Tolkien's Legendarium.

"So there we where, about to throw the ring into Mount doom when the darnest thing happened. Isildur only goes and bloody TRIPS, head first into the lava. I tried to save him but was too late, sorry about that guys. Anyway, who's up for a pint?" - Elrond, probably

There were a number of practical reasons as you've noted, but the main one is very simple: in Tolkien's view, a good end NEVER justifies evil means. To take the Ring from Isildur he'd have had to murder him. Even if Elrond could have destroyed the Ring after taking it that way, which, I agree, is unlikely, murdering his friend and ally is not something he ever would have done for any reason. The Elves had learned from the example of Fëanor and his sons.

In Unfinished Tales' chapter on the Gladden Fields, Isildur decides to seek council with Elrond on how to deal with the Ring respectively suggeting that the Ring should go to "the keepers of the Three", so it seems he wanted to offer/ask Elrond to safekeep the Ring. This plan shows to me clearly that Elrond was right to trust in Isildur, who had not fallen to the Ring yet.

"Where's Isildur? Is it over? Is the One Ring destroyed?" Elrond: "I'm sorry. He slipped and fell into the lava. I tried to save him but couldn't get there in time."

Because he feared it would reset the Matrix

Ima be real with u, I'd rather wanted Isildur to have the Ring than Elrond. Both of them would have kept it, but in terms of "geopolitics", the Ring would have been so much more disastrous if it had been in Elrond's hands.

If Elrond had the skill of his great-grandmother, he could have sung Isildur to sleep then taken the One Ring (which still leaves the problem of being able to toss it into Orodruin).

Having never read the books, this had seemed weird to me for years. Thank you for clearing it up! Those are excellent reasons for Elrond to be passive in that moment.

When the ring was lost, it took Sauron about 1000 years before he was able to take shape again. I wonder what difference it would have made had Isildur kept the ring and not been slain in the Gladden Fields.

When Isildur was attacked and his sons slain, wasn't he on his way to Elrond to ask his counsel? I was under the impression when reading that he was seriously considering giving it up because he had discovered he didn't have the strength to wield it, so he refused to wear it. Also, he was given a disservice in the films; Isildur was a wise and generous king and not taken to delusions of grandeur. Though I admit it's a while ago since I read it so corrections would be welcome.

so glad youre doing voice over again!

Were Isildur and Elrond friends? They were allies and had interacted with each other, one would assume. Would you be able to kill a close ally (and possibly friend)? It would take Elrond killing Isildur to take the Ring from him.

EXCELLENT analysis. Superb. Thank you for the video.

Great video! Very reasonable and likely thoughts and conclusion!

Hope everything is all good and we see you make more content soon please

aw i've been looking forward to you doing episode reviews for the ring of power since i started following your channel in i think 2017. it's finally here, n it's not the best but i felt like maybe you could help change our feelings towards the show with your advanced knowledge and insight on the lore

Great job. Very well thought out.

I've always asked myself this question haha. Good vid bro.

Glad to hear you back narrating

Good explanation. If Elrond managed to take the Ring from Isildur, he wouldn never have been able to destroy it. At the Sammath Naur no one could have harmed the Ring if he or she possessed it, not even Gandalf or Galadriel (and probably even figures like Tom Bombadil). It was providence that Isildur took the Ring and was killed only a few years after (so that he wouldn´t turn into a tyrant). By killing Isildur and taking the One Ring, Elrond would have provoked an Elven-Men war, which the Elves likely would have won. Within a few years Elrond would have turned Middle-earth into an Elven autocracy.

God dude, the actor who played Elrond and Agent Smith has like the most intense face for some reason.

Do you agree with my thoughts? Was it wise of Elrond to allow Isildur to keep the One Ring? Or do you believe he had a chance of destroying it himself, or perhaps it would have been better in Elrond's hands? As always subtitles are available and feedback is welcome!

I’m glad to hear your voice again

Agent Elrond: 'Do you feel it, Isildur? The weight of the past pressing down on your shoulders...the pull of the future in the stone beneath your feet? And here we are... two, as allies, yet opposed in one matter...of fate. Call it destiny, call it choice...' Isildur: 'I can feel the word _"inevitable" coming.... let me stop you right there...'

Could you do a video on why the lotr gods don’t just save middle earth form decaying and losing magic .

Here's my frame of things. A: The ring was created by a being of godlike power in comparison to any of them. B: Therefore the will of its master was altogether indomitable by any of them, however resilient they may have been. C: Its ultimate, foremost will was to survive, to continue being, eternally. They could never intentionally destroy the ring because their wills could not possibly have matched that of Sauron's. As for why even the Istari, who were of the exact same order of being as Sauron, could not have destroyed it: They were equals. Two waves, of the exact same height and velocity, which meet cancel each other out. Only a will that could altogether supersede Sauron's could have dispensed with the Ring. So, only a Vala, and they were not in Middle Earth.

I know NOTHING of politics. But Elrond taking the ring from Isildur would basically sour the alliance between humans and elves. Those two were important figure of powers, and despite their shared victory, this also would create an rift between them. So maybe it was for the best that Isildur that had took the One Ring for himself and seeing his fate. Elrond spared himself from death and corruption.

Great points and also Isildur was his Kin through Elros. So it would've greatly pained him to attach his nephew and cause strife between elves and men. He lives through enough of strife in the 1st age.

*im sure thr is writing that suggest that they could not choose to destroy it.* letr 191 it speaks of elrond & galadrial couldnt even, if they touched it. which i love.

My favorite narrator is back! Let's go! I miss this channel!

I asked this question my self tens of times.

Thanks!

0:53 anyone else reminded of Hollow Ichigo from Bleach?

So much wisdom in video with so few views. I feel like Elronds actions in letting Isildur go unharmed are almost somehow related to him not having to be the one that joins the fellowship and takes them to the volcano. As if his unreasonably proper conduct relieves him of further duty related to the ring. Maybe I'm just seeing things where there is nothing.

I thought it might have something to do with the twilight of the elves. They had the 3 rings to try to keep a little of the magic they used to have. I am not sure if those 3 rings got some of their power from the one. Maybe he knew that by destroying the 1, the elves would loose their magic (good life) much quicker, and have to sail west much sooner.

Amazing video as always thank you 😊

Tolkien Untangled did a video explaining why Isildur couldn't destroy the one ring. The video's title is "The One Ring: How does it work?"

Why? To quote the wisdom of Ryan George: "So the movie can happen."

Nice....👍

Elves were far more resilient to Sauron's treachery, it would have been difficult, even for Elrond but I have little doubt that he would have done it.

Easy! Elrond understood the idea of recompense and Isildur taking something from the enemy that killed his father and brother was understandable. Plus, killing Isildur would make Elrond look bad in front of the Gondor people.

Elrond didn't stop isildur because with his ability of foresight, he sensed that in another universe, men were going to write books and make movies about middle earth. Elrond thought it would make a good story to not stop isildur and he would make a cameo appearance in those forms of media. Elrond likes the limelight.

Had Elrond taken the ring, and IMMEDIATELY destroyed it, before it had time to corrupt his mind, the story of Sauron would have been over. Even if it leads to war between the elves and men, it's still a better alternative then what Middle Earth DOES get afterwards. And Sauron at this point, is irrevocably diminished, and cannot exploit the situation, without his ring. It would seem to be that Elrond, wise as he is, would have seen that this was at least a better outcome then letting the ring survive.

Elrond should have kicked Isildur into the fires of mount doom and shouted "THIS IS MORDOR!" as he did it. Problem solved

To start with, taking the Ring with an act of treachery would put you right down Gollum’s Road. It’s easy for us to try to point out what seems obvious to us… but this is not just some action-adventure video game. Must I point out that Elves are not human? Of course, Elrond was actually “Elrond The Half-Elven” but his choice had made him a full Elf while His Brother chose a mortal life as a man. Anyway, the Elves see and feel the world differently than we do. The books do show this so much more clearly than the films. Aside from being so long-lived and always sensitive to such things as The Fading, for them there was no question as to the existence of Eru Illuvatar. They were (for the most part) highly principled,focused on and loyal to the design of Eru Illuvatar. They knew that this all went back beyond Sauron to Melkor- they didn’t just “believe” this… they KNEW it to be true. After all- it was their divinely appointed role to help guide Man into his intended place in Middle Earth, after which their time in Middle Earth would come to an end. For an Elf to usurp the authority to override Man’s Choice,Fate and Destiny would be to violate their own role and place them in rebellious opposition to the will of Eru Illuvatar- which would obviously have put Elrond even further in danger of falling to The One Ring’s power. Many may scoff at this but that is because they do not understand the world which they are viewing. This spiritual battle of will and desire being portrayed was not theoretical, especially for the Elves and the Wizards- this was an actual ever present reality for them. They knew EXACTLY what was at stake. Remember Galadriel and Gandalf’s reaction towards getting The One Ring AT ALL vs. Bilbo’s response towards just getting it back? Remember how the Palantir affected those who held it? In the books, it was more strongly evident how the Palantir had helped drive the Steward of Gondor (Denethor II,son of Ecthelion II) mad to the point of actual self-destruction. It had been this way for them all along- No doubts or maybes. The Ring was not only “altogether evil”, it was inherently POWERFUL- it wasn’t as simple as just grabbing it and throwing it into the fire. It even turned Frodo at the last. So, here’s my thought- The Nine Rings of Power caused Men to Fall into Shadow. Who’s to say what the One Ring would have done to Elrond? Since the Three Elvish Rings of Power held back The Fading, is it not possible that The One Ring would have stopped The Fading altogether for him, thus galvanizing him into a carnal, materialistic creature that WOULD NOT FADE? Would he even disappear? We don’t know- as far as we know only a man, the hobbits Bilbo&Frodo (in the book this also included Sam, who did wear The One Ring a few times to evade the Orcs) and Gollum were the only ones to ever actually even wear The One Ring, apart from Sauron himself. Except for Tom Bombadil- and he did not disappear… but that is another story. However, no Elf or Wizard ever wore the Ring. Wizards weren’t Men either, but once again, that is also another story.

Intriguing

Can you make a charactar lore about gil galad?

I haven‘t watched more than 3 seconds of the video but the answer is: 1. because Isildur never went into Mount Doom and 2. because the Numenoreans woulda fricked the the Elves‘ stuff up before they even woulda got closed to escaping.

He would have started a war between men and elves that would have destroyed them both

What if nobody can throw the ring and a freak accident has to happen?

Where art thou, Geekzone?

Very nice and informative video GeekZone Best Zone

Elrond attacking isildur would have also been another kinslaying.

What was stronger at its prime. Arnor or Gondor?

Thanks for the video! Elrond can look somewhat into the future, right? I have always wondered why Elron didn't forcefully end the One Ring. I am sure he saw something that wouldn't have went in his/Middle Earth's favor.

The Books answer why: No one knew that the One Ring would ensure Sauron could remain and only 2 there were that knew of what Isildur did that day when he cut the One Ring from Sauron's Defeated Hand in that moment: Elrond & Cirdan, for beside the Slain Gil-Galad only those two stood and beside Elendil only Isildur stood in that last mortal contest. They did not know that X amount of Years later that Sauron would return. They never traveled to the very Fires of Mount Doom as the Movies make it out like with Isildur giving a "F You, Imma Keep it!", this was just a way to give the Movie Elves a "Why we overall don't trust in Men anymore." and to setup the Movie Version of Helm's Deep compared to the truth. The Elves, especially those who dealt with the Kingdom of Arnor, Arthedain and then the Rangers of the North, trusted those Men of the Dunedain and when Aragorn II came along, the Great Ones among the Elves knew that likely the greatest chance for the Line of Elendil to return to the Kingship would be with him. That's the biggest downside of the Movie Adaptations, it doesn't tell the full & proper Story and puts elements in that never existed while removing certain key moments: - It makes it seem like Elves have a "underlying disgust or distrust" for Men and the last time they "trusted or truly worked together" was during the Final Years of the Second Age when Sauron was first overthrown. - That Rohan has a growing hatred/loathing for Gondor who "abandoned them" when that wasn't even close to the truth due to both Rohan + Gondor being under so much pressure that neither could help each other in the Early part of the War of the Ring. Only once Rohan had defeated Saruman, could they turn East even while Sauron was sending Armies to attack Rohan. All the Free Peoples by Third Age 3018 and into Third Age 3019 were divided and like Islands in the Sea. Sauron had spent much time in trying to weaken the various powers into a state where they could be defeated One by One, even if they defeated Army after Army, until none remained to oppose him.

For me maybe the another reason why Elrond didnt kill Isildur or at least beat him to come to his senses its because Isildur is a living descendant of Elros and knowing what kind of a family man Elrond is, he cannot bring himself to hurt a living legacy of his twin brother.

Would have been a short story

Indeed. Imagine if isildur lived and took the great north south road rather then the route he took and kept the ring?

Many of these questions have very simple answers: because the story needed to go on according to Tolkien's vision. Any righteous elf (or man or dwarf) would have slaughtered that chump Isildur into the fire along with the ring.

In the book, Elrond made his best to persuade Isildur to destroy the Ring. Elrond was too wise to use force because he understood that the Ring had an evil will of its own and the Ring wanted to cause chaos, strife, and violence among the Free Peoples

Karl is back. I love it

Glad to know the scene in the movie never happened. It bothered me that Elrond could have just done a frodo and say "he tripped and fell" to the people outside lol

Gold is ~$2400 per troy ounce ... it would be precious to anyone

Elrond was scared

What happened if Voldemort create one horcrux using One ring

I had some smartalic who thought he was more clever than Tolken said this same question to me. I basically gave him the same reasons that you outline in this video.

I actually disagree with you on this one; I think it would've been far better had Elrond and his peers managed to find some way to trick or in some sly way get the ring from Isildur and to the Fires before anyone was the wiser. 'Better to ask forgiveness than permission' they say, and in this case had they successfully destroyed the ring, when there should have been little in their way (the fires of Doom being known to be quiet when their master was defeated and low in his power), the prospect of a war between man and elf over the lost ring isn't as dire. Especially if one considers the instant effect destroying the ring would have - all men and elves present would see the fall of the Barad-Dur, or what was standing of it at the time, as well as the collapse of Mordor and the near-genocide of the orcs. That may have done quite a lot to mitigate any bad blood over the shiny ring - especially once Isildur had been parted with it for long enough. That is, if it didn't break his mind taking it from him; but he stood a better chance than most, being a man of Numenor. Anyway, I digress - GREAT HEARING YOU BACK, MY FRIEND! :) (And yes I realize this comment is 5 months late)

👍

Hadn’t Isildur actually decided to go to Rivendell, and he was waylaid at the Gladden Fields en route? This suggests to me that his will was beginning to win out over the hold the Ring had over him. We can never know what may have happened at Rivendell between Elrond and Isildur, but it probably would not have gone well. But instead the Ring betrayed Isildur and so the story goes. Peter Jackson’s version works well for the movies, but he does do a bit of a disservice to the characters of Elrond and Isildur. He makes Elrond seem disdainful of Men, which was not the case, and he turns Isildur into a low key villain, which was definitely not the case. Isildur did nothing wrong.

Thats because is the book he wasn’t there🤷‍♂️

Why Did Sauron have the Elves create the other rings of power? If he had made them himself and handed them out, no 3 rings to stop him.

How the ring manage to influence Isildur so quickly that makes him wanted to keep it for him and not to destroy it. Had Isildur known that the one ring was the "soul" of Sauron and needs to be destroyed?

Great video! I only have one question though. It was stated that it would break one's mind should the Ring be taken from them by force. Isn't that exactly what happened to Frodo in the end? Didn't Gollum take the One Ring from him by force? How come Frodo's mind was not broken after this act? Thanks in advance to anyone willing to answer this question! :)

Hey Karl, Not sure if I missed something but what happened to the other narrator?

These are valid reasons, but for me none of it outweighs the risk of Sauron's full return to power. It just doesn't seem at all reasonable to me that someone like Elrond would become immediately and totally controlled by the Ring, to the extent that he couldn't bring himself to destroy it.

Isildur would have squashed Elrond like a bug, were talking about a big badass monster straight from Numenor, these are the super men of the second age who Saurons armies tan away from and left him to be captured, and that's while he had the ring, before being killed and coming back. That scene you played at the beginning was a parody of the movie, that ain't in the book, Isildur did NOTHING WRONG and was burdened by bearing the ring.

wonder if he is gonna watch rings of power hahaha

anyone laughing at why elrond didn't push isildur into the fire. lol

Let's be real here. The reason he didn't take it from Isildur is because he looked pretty good with that ring on. That's style there. You don't mess with style.

Elrond trying to take the ring by force from Isildur would mean war between Elfes and Humans. No way Elrond would risk that. Very simple. Even if Elrond succeded and actually destroyed the One Ring, Humans would still hate Elfes because of the "stolen precious". So there would be no guarantee that the war/hate would stop.

Elrong shouldhavelet ISuldur keep the ring but pushed him into the cracks of doom or even grabbed him and dragged him and the ring into the lava lake/

Elrond should have just killed islidur or make him have an accident into the lava.

Let us NOT forget....Ilsidur and Elrond were MORE than friends...they were actually kin! And Elrond and his Brother Elros were ALREADY quite familiar with the consequences of Kinslaying in the pursuit of powerful talismans!

Can you do a video on the Christian influence in themes in the Lord of the rings

Because Tolkien wouldn't have had a story left to write

weregild = mangold

As youi said, it would have started a war betwen Elfs and Mans.

Then they will be no the hobbit or lord of the rings hahah

So glad to hear your voice.

Probably the same reason why they didnt take the eagles to mount doom..the story would have been over there 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Since Isildur was influenced by the ring in just a minute proves Isildur's will was weaker than a Hobbit's , even weaker than Boromir's will . Boromir was influenced by the ring for a minute after weeks of travel near it , but he broke free of it before he died .

As soon as Elrond takes the ring off Isildur, he would use it for himself. Pretty hypocritical from Elrond if you ask me. To say men are weak when the Elves would have done the same thing with the ring if not maybe worse.

Please criticize Amazon prime Show Rings of Power pls

the last channel of Tolkien content that hasn't been poisoned and misled by an invite from Amazon. please stay pure. I unsubscribed from a few other channels that were bribed and ok with Amazon molesting Tolkien's work

Being a Christian and knowing the word of God has helped me understand and enjoy lotr more deeply, the characters and their motivations and moralities become much more interesting to read about or watch, when we know the Bible's history and the last days events happening in our world today, we appreciate even more the work Tolkien made by the inspiration of God's Holy Word. Thanks for the video.

I would love to hear elrond give excuses for why he, who is not a high Lord yet technically, killed the now high King of his biggest Ally and on top of that brought the realm of Gondor into chaos because he ended the line of the Kings of Men

...because the story would have ended there.