I think its is worthy mentioning the Transfer Case control unit, which is located under the drive's seat. I had the same symptoms you mentioned, and all that needed to be replaced was this $200+/- unit. I DID NOT HAVE TO REPLACE THE TRANSFER CASE!!! Sometimes these control units go bad because water gets inside, but mine was perfectly clean and dry, yet it was the cause of months worth of investigation and unneeded work to be done - including opening the transfer case cover to investigate its condition, changing the small motor that is attached to the side of the transfer case and the position sensor. Guys, before you listen to JEEP mechanics (or any mechanics) and change things that cost $1000k or more, please look into the smaller and cheaper causes of the problem.
not even the TCM ,which is a "slave " unit , the console selector switch ! have a 2011 JGC and at 120k km had the "transmission service reqd" light show up , replaced the transfer case , 1 month later same problem , random comment on JGC Forum mentioned switch , changed same , problem disappeared , car now has 225k km and is faultless , blaming tyres is a wild guess at fault explanation
I had the transfer case go out on my 2012 JGC. I never had miss matched tires on this vehicle. You can’t always blame the costumers. The car companies sometimes need to own up to to the inadequacy.
@@user-tb7rn1il3q if taking care of quadra drive is the absolute king off-road in the SUV market, especially luxury SUVs. You're crazy if you don't think you should maintain something that's premium. When you have wear items in the drivetrain. The debris gets into the fluids. Of course you need to change the fluid out. On a motorcycle you have to stay particular about your oil change too because of the wet clutch. If you want true 4x4 whether it be vehicle can literally send power to anyone. Wheel quadra drive 2 is the only system that does it right now. My only complaint is I can't get it with a hemi on the new Jeep Grand Cherokee. Most of the time it is the customer that screws it up by either power launching the vehicle or trying to do burnouts or not. Even keeping the tires inflated to the proper pressures and waiting for the vehicle to tell them that the tires deflated. Because the system will try the compensate for the ones higher that's low and slip the clutch and you'll burn it out either in the rear axle or the transfer case. The front axle uses the brakes to transfer the power from side to side on the axle. It's really a $20 maintenance item. Valvoline ATF plus 4. 2 quarts it's like $9 a quart. Plus thread sealant... And I added tad bit of archoil To be completely honest though, Jeep could have done better because they could have put dielectric grease in the terminals on several of my Chrysler vehicles. I've noticed that components that are exposed to moisture are not properly insulated for the moisture that they're going to experience. And the Jeep the clear coat can crack on the rims and you'll get really slow leaks. There is a fluid you can add to the rims. It's not fix a flat. It's that's only a temporary fix. There's one that has aramid fibers. That's a permanent fix. Tire ject bead sealant.
Having uneven tire pressure can cause unnecessary wear on drivetrain parts on AWD vehicles too.Try to keep the tires within about 2 psi of eachother. And its not just mismatched tires. If you get a flat tire on an AWD vehicle,and it can't be repaired. You'll have to replace all 4. This happened to my parents Subaru. And holy smokes, boy did they squeeze that Hemi engine in there. That definitely does not look fun to work on.
Had an 2002 Ford Explorer do the same thing. Too sensitive electronics if you ask me. Thanks for taking time to shake hands and show us around the shop yesterday. You’re a humble gentleman David,
I sold a transfer case to a shop back when I was a commercial specialist for a parts store. The core unit that we got back from that dodge journey had a crack in the case. Three of the tires were almost bald, and the 4th had like 1000 miles on it.
Thank you, that was a great and powerful explanation of why you need to buy all 4 tires when you get a flat on an AWD vehicle. I did not know this could happen!
Cheap buisness owners in trucks only throwing two abck tires on...and they're either worse than the fronts, or brand new and the fronts are roasted. Everything gets eaten up
It depends on the awd system. (If there is an open center diff and everythign else is by brakes you won't have a problem) You also can have the same thing with LSDs in RWD and FWD cars. I remember when i had a flat (RWD car), and the mechanic, before ordering 1 new rear went around to ahve a look at the tire on the other side. I had bought the tires 2 months before, so pretty much no difference. And before someone asks: The tires i have/had on the car are not legal to be repaired. They are rated for 300kph+ and the car is too. (might be different in other parts of the world, but here this is how it is)
@@The_Touring_Jedi Sorry, i am not the right person for that. I couldn't give you any more advise the Wizard includes in this video. I am very interested in the general working principles of awd systems or things like LSDs, hence my comment, but for what you need, you are more likely to get usefull info or tips from a trusted experienced mechanic (that could check it or it's service history for you) or a maybe a dedicated Jeep forum.
Wow, that's interesting to know. My brother had one of these Cherokees and never had an issue with it...but did complain one day about having to buy 4 new tires after a blowout. I didn't ask him why....but see that, some people do follow the suggestions...and proves the point. He put over 150k miles on his before selling, no issues other than usual maintenance.
@@thetechlibrarian Sorry - was responding specifically to a particular comment. Yes - any xfer case that is "full time" will want to see stable geometry on both sides of the case.
Thanks for the varied vehicles you highlight and you easy presentation style. Mrs. Wizard is a great addition and she sure is kept busy. Continued success in all you both attempt.
I'm not positive, but those come with viscous coupling, I think, to connect the front and rear driveshafts, not the clutch-driven one in these new ones. I imagine the tradeoff is efficiency vs longevity.
Great content Car Wizard! I learned a lot this episode! Really have been interested in the Jeep Grand Cherokee for a while and now I know what else to look out for when attempting to purchase one from a dealer or private seller. Your videos are always so informative. Thank you! Keep up the great content! Can't wait to see more on the Ferrari!
Thanks Wizard. This is great information. I have a 2012 with 156,000 miles on it. I've been really happy with it since new and want to keep it going. I have the MOPAR unlimited mileage warranty but stuff like this keeps me up at night. I try really hard to maintain it and avoid problems.
I definitely appreciate all the information on the transfer case! My sister's jeep has the same problem. As I've never had to work on one before. Came here to do homework while scoping out what was needed for this job. You helped out a lot with that. Thank you for going above and beyond on that. That being said, and this is just my humble opinion, everyone's got one. Maybe next time just start with the topic at hand. I only say this because I almost clicked off the video and wouldve missed out on very valuable information concerning the transfer case. I'd hate for others to lose out on this information simply because of the first 5-10 min of the video with the covering of the exterior and interior features of the specific vehicle you were showcasing the work on. Just kind of felt like filler content and out of place with the real reason most are even watching the video for in the first place. Came for information on jeep transfer cases not the different model options. Not being rude at all, just a simple feed back suggestion from one tiny member of your audience. Other than that, I applaud your channel and the knowledge you have with this trade. Grew up in 3rd generation garage, dad and grandad were mechanics. So I'm all too familiar with how many people claim to be one when in all honesty they legally shouldn't be allowed to fill a gas tank. It's nice coming across a channel that is actually very knowledgeable. Keep up the good work!
My friend has 2014 overland overland quadra-trac 2 hemi motor for like I have like come on similar symptoms that he's describing about it feeling ideas kicking in the four-wheel-drive clicking noise underneath the vehicle he took the dealer first he also needed a new transfer case$7,000! He has only 60,000 mechanical type I told him to bring it on down and we would scan it and take a look at it did a little research on the Jeep forum many folks on there but turned out to be the transmission control unit under the front seat failed $275 bucks, and the transfer case shifter motor gear had broke 175 bucks so $450 sound a lot better $7,000 so we fixed! 2 years later still running driving fine no lights no codes!
I also heard this mechanic said that the engine scan indicated the codes indicated clutch addition that's what the dealer tried to say about my friends transfer case indicated clutch failure! But that code was being thrown because the transfer case shift motor therefore couldn't shift it out of 4-wheel drive but I am sure that if my friend would have continued to drive it more than he did I'm sure this mechanics right it would have burned the transfer case up
One of my local tire shops has a tire shaving machine so that if you have to get one or 2 new tires and your others have adequate life they will shaving the new one(s) down to match exactly. This applies to pretty much all AWD vehicles. Subaru, Toyota etc all require your tires be within a couple tenths of each other
That’s retarded…Buy 2 new tires just to have them shave down to match one lol that’s straight idiocy! Why not just buy four brand new tires and get an extra 50,000 miles out of them. It’s people like you they make money off of…. Read What you’re saying lol let me pay Toyota to make my new tires used tires…. Dum as they cum
Thanks guy. A breath of fresh air to get straight answers that's clear like this. I like how you gave it straight. Some mechanic wouldn't say a word just to have a customer come back 😂. Thanks 👍🏽
Very informative Wizard, thanks for this video. My dad has a ‘16 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7L, great vehicle so far, very minimal issues but I’ll be sure to look out for this.
You drive your jeep to the grocery store spotless all around, to the soccer field, to the office - never been off-road but breaks down because of tires? Such a good car!
its long been known that awd and 4wd vehicles need four matching tires. customers and even managers at shops say bullshit but its not and never has been.
Same way on a Subaru if you don’t replace all four tires you’re going to have Transmission problems because Subaru has transfer case and the transmission as one unit
mismatched tires force the differential/transfer case/transmission units to work harder than normal to match wheel speeds. this causes the lubricating fluids/wear materials to break down much faster than normal. and then premature failure.
As long as you can track down the exact same tire (including load range, speed rating, etc.) you can have the new tire shaved down to match, saves you a bundle if your tires still have some meat on them and aren't ready for replacement yet--Subaru allows up to 2/32" of wear difference between the tires but when we do the shaving it's always to make a perfectly matched set.
So, I'm glad that the Car Wizard covered this, because I bought a '18 GC a few months ago from a reputable online vendor where they had replaced just the rear tires. Annoyingly, the owner's manual states you can safely do this - it states you just have to replace both on the same axle. Had I seen this beforehand, I would've negotiated for replacement tires all the way around, Thankfully, I caught this video soon enough that I was able to replace the mismatched front tires with the same exact model in the same exact size, and avoided having to shave tires to match the tread depth. I'm hoping that my transfer case stays happy for awhile and that I didn't drive on the mismatched set long enough to cause problems. But I wish I had this information sooner. It's not enough to just match the tire size - it has to be the SAME EXACT brand, model, AND size. The diameter of the tire can very greatly between different brands and models despite reporting the same tire size, and of course different tires wear at different rates. Even if you started with brand new tires, but different brands/models on each axle, there can be enough of a mismatch in diameter that causes the clutches to burn up. The front tires on mine (prior to replacement) were a full 1/2" shorter in diameter despite the sidewall stating they were the same size.
Had this issue on a 15 WK2 Grand Cherokee at something like 55 or 65k. Transfer case control unit went haywire, forced the transfer case to constantly engage and disengage resulting in the unit burning itself up. I highly recommend anyone experiencing this type of issue to contact FCA warranty support as they are well aware of the issue and split the repair bill (although they should have covered more) under ‘warranty’ just outside of specified mileage.
That's the definition of progress. To make something more expensive, complicated and prone to failing without giving you any practical benefit other than not having to press a button.
@@MaddJakd they work fine except they add $1k+ onto the price of the car, they are less secure, make the ignition system more complicated, the fobs go through batteries quickly and if you lose the fob they are very expensive up replace. But yeah I guess it's convenient for entry and you don't have to take your key out of your pocket or purse or have to listen to your keys jingle as you drive over bumpy roads
That was so informative. My nephew bought a used Grand Cherokee within weeks of using it had already started having to replace the transfer case. Thanks for the info.
That open space where the spare is 'missing' is used for the DEF tank on diesel models. The spare tire is under the floor inside the vehicle. On the Durango which shares a platform with the Grand Cherokee it does have the spare there to allow for the floor to be flat for the third row of seats.
What a great and informative video. The transfer case reminds me how the C5 traction system works. The computer knows the tires are 1" in diameter different from front to back. The transfer case uses the same logic except the 4 tires have to be exact. Thank you for the video!!! :)
If memory serves, going back into the 70ies or 80ies , the Jeep "Quadra-Track " system also required that all 4 tire dimensions had to be the same, or the system would destroy itself. Great videos !
Thank you car wizard, I just picked up a 2023 grand Jeep Cherokee, Quadra Trac 1 - I’m assuming this is something I should also be aware of with my tire wear and just very good tire rotation as I have 17’s on here. So far I love it. I’m coming from Front Wheel Dr., Honda’s for the past 13 years. I will tell you the new five link suspension is incredible. I am floating on the ground it’s beautiful.
Thank you for discussing tire wear and its impact on transfer cased and 4wd components. I can't tell you how many times I had to explain that to people that just wanted to pay for 1 tire.
Wow It's my first 4x4 jeep thank goodness I haven't had the need to replace tires but going forward ill do all 4 each time. rather spend 1k on tires then 3-6k on a transfer case lol.
I learned while working in the tire shop not only do transfer cases love it when the vehicle has all four of the same tire, they also love when directional tires are mounted in the correct direction as well.
That is because Toyota added RWD lock out on those (so you can drive with mismatched tyre for a while if you wanted to). This Jeep doesn't have that...
My brother in law had a slightly older one of these beauties. Lovely design and drive with a gorgeous interior, but he put a heck of a lot of miles on it for his business which often involved towing quite heavy stuff. When it finally started to complain in earnest, this is EXACTLY what had gone wrong. So he got rid of it and bought a Range Rover. Out of the frying pan...
Wow. Great video! I looked at a 2011 GC Overland today with the svc 4wd light on. 2 new tires in front 2 banana skins in the back! I did not buy it but told the guy I needed to do some research first. I’ll try for the lower price tomorrow and if he says no, then I’ll pass. Too bad. Was one of the nicest ones I’ve seen in months otherwise. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for this video. I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and will always replace tires in full sets after this. You might also want to do a video about the failing rocker arms/lifters/lash adjusters on the Chrysler Pentastar V6 engines used in these Jeep’s, as well as in millions of other Mopars.
Hah, mine had faulty connector to TC shift motor so dealer had to replace the connector and the motor. I guess manufacturing problem? Otherwise I love WK2. They are awesome comfy highway cruisers that do very well for light offroading or camping.
Thanks for listing the Jeep's transfer case strongpoints and what it is going to cost you to maintain that level of mechanical perfection just for that transmission.
I kept a huge amount of spare tyres for my old BMW Z3 2.8ltr, was blowing side walls on my dirt driveway, had to change both sides at once, not all 4, so I just started keeping the undamaged as a spare, so sometimes I didn't need to buy a new one, also kept buckling rear rims on the inside lip, finally just changed the rim's, Rj in Oz
@@SkylineFTW97 I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I'm saying you shouldn't have to. Having to replacing 3 good tires because the fourth blew out is appalling.
@@kewrock I agree. I don't think 99% of people benefit from having AWD. I think it's a waste. More points of failure from improper maintenance, reduced gas mileage, it's extra resources down the drain because people are scared of driving in a light snowdrift or a rainstorm, which you by no means need AWD for. I actively encourage people to avoid getting it whenever possible.
Well if I'm not mistaken this particular type of transfer case allows the car to be like an all-wheel drive vehicle and in any all-wheel drive vehicle if you have different tire sizes or mismatching tires on the car it can cause the burnout of the transfer case so that doesn't just apply to Chrysler products that's any all-wheel drive car.
@@dodgeplow Except every decent tire shop will tell a Subaru owner they need to replace all 4 tires because it is a universal requirement for every Subaru sold in the last 30 years or so. The real issue here is it only applies to Jeep models with this particular 4WD system. You have to really know your stuff to realize which trim levels this applies to, etc.
Buddy of mine operates several 60's 6x6 army trucks. His yard is filled with mounted tires with the circumference written on them. When he needs to replace a tire, sometimes he has to remove all 4 rears to make up a set of the proper size. He uses the smallest tires on the front because of a sprag that lets the rear tires overrun the fronts. He says if the fronts are larger, they try to pull the entire truck along. He says when the sizes are right, the truck rolls along much more free.
It's pretty much the case for all awd vehicles on the market, even Toyota. Gotta replace all tires at the same time or you risk damaging awd components.
I had a 2011 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 that had MDS. Cam lifter seized at 128k miles and messed up the camshaft. I sold it broken because I was tired of repairs and it was half the value of the Jeep to fix the lifter and cam.
@@labourlawact7826 you mean Toyota that had to recall and replace over 100,000 engines in 2020 due to a serious manufacturing flaw that can cause the engine to blow up and cause a fire. Go away, Sheep
My daughters went our right after they purchased it . They got it used at a dealer under warrenty, they had to replace it. It's been back to the shop every 3 months. I would not buy one, ever.
Thanks, first time I heard about the tires needing matching as one of issues for failures, good thing to look for while shopping for a used jeep. Chevy Astro vans with all wheel drive didn't like uneven tires and required the Smurf juice, otherwise the vehicle would shudder.
Given that speed sensors are at work sending data from all wheels, you might think some sort of comparator circuit would be included to set off an alarm on such an expensive time bomb. Full time AWD systems on other brands can also give out for the same reason or even worse, buying two tires and somebody manages to fit the wrong tire size to your vehicle.
Not even a circuit, the computer just needs to look at the telemetry and throw a "critical service needed" message and code if any wheel rotation rates are more than off. Really nanny ecus could put it in limp mode until reset.
yeah there is no reason the programming couldn't have been written to notice when a single half-shaft/axle is ALWAYS rotating precisely some ratio slower or faster than the others. Instead they only half-committed to a design and made it contingent on the 4 tires having the exact same circumference with no tolerance.
@@Lon1001 Agreed. You would think the system could be programmed to "learn" any continuous tyre diameter differences, eg measured at speed on a presumably open road, and then factor in those differences when looking for wheel slippage.
Great insight thanks for producing this, as an owner I've always replaced all 4 corners at once, and it's important to rotate the tyres(In not in the US) through their life span to ensure you get even use out of your rubber!
Apart the fact that Jeep wasn't FCA in 2013... They got it on 12 ottobre 2014 and still models coming out from there have been "pure Chrysler" for years (it doesn't take 1 month to go from design to test to mass produce a vehicle). Now that you've showed your ignorance, you can put back on your donkey hat.
I'm on my fourth GC: 2011 Overland and 2014, 2017, 2020 Summits. All bought new, and with the 5.7 Hemi. All good/great vehicles. The 2011 was a bit 'buggy' as far as the electronics go, but the others were all better and better. I feel for the money, it's hard to beat the 'bang for the buck' the Jeep GC delivers. Very interesting about the tire size difference causing failure. I'll keep that in mind, as I plan on keeping the 2020 for more than three years. I'm wondering if you should rotate the tire more often???
My son's gf sister bought a 2019 Jeep Cherokee and I specifically told her not to. She said life was too short not to make mistakes and knew the Jeep wasn't very good and also got a bad deal on financing. So far she's had to get the engine worked on
@@JohnSmith-uy2jg yep. She wanted the Jeep because she wanted a Wrangler, but all the different packages confused her and the Cherokee was in this cool orange color. They guy threw some numbers at her, she put 40% down on it, financed the rest amd within 4 months, the engine was surging bad. They told her it was a bad 'plug'. Then that didn't fix it, and said it was the throttle position sensor. She knows nothing about cars and I tried telling her they were full of crap, but it has a year left on the warranty and they are fixing it for 'Free', even though she paid a $75 service fee. That's not free. But whatever. Some people you can't tell anything to at all.
I love your review, I think you are such a great help for people who are shopping around for affordable and reliable vehicle. I am considering buying the 2017 Range Rover evoque. Is this a good buy?
You should mention that tire shaving services are available if you need to replace one tire well before the rest need replacing. Also proper rotation of the tires is important so all 4 wear evenly. You need not necessarily replace all 4 tires.
I think that is a last resort option only as your tire traction is critical for acceleration, turning and stopping. Maybe consider a FWD car if buying 4 tires at once is a problem.
@@LarsonChristopher Tire shaving makes the new tire the same size as the other three. It doesn't have anything to do with the things you mentioned. Obviously if the other three are unsafe you wouldn't shave a new tire to match the unsafe 3 tires. You just buy 4 tires. That's what we've done for years, just get 4 new tires.
Thank you for the video! I am thinking about buying a 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee outlander with 89,000 mi on it. I will definitely be checking out the tires 👍
This is so timely, I was thinking of buying one of these in the UK. One question, do the same sort of mechanical issues exist with the same year’s SRT8 model?
Yes, you will likely experience the exhaust bolt snapping issue, also transmission issues are common on this generation. I would stay away from all US made vehicles in the last 10 years.
The moral of this story is stay away from ALL Wheel Drive (especially Chrysler/Fiat products), purchase a 4x4 where you have to physically engage the other two wheels.
@@CrossingRover well that's nonsense since Toyota's and Honda's built in the US are very well made. This is a Chrysler issue not a country of origin issue. The Yanks can build great cars they just need the Japanese to show them how
You would think in the age of electronics and computer controls that the vehicle with know it had different size tires for they were the same and be able to compensate for that
why would a manufacturer incorporate an expensive and non trivial technology (adding an entire system) into a vehicle when they could simply state "you need four matching tires at all times or damage to driveline will ensue"
@@kingoftaurus the abs system does not possess the technology to accurately know what tires are on the car and change the behavior of the powertrain to compensate. how can abs detect the tread pattern of a tire? tread depth? abs relies primarily on wheel speed data. knowing how fast a wheel is spinning cant possibly give the data points needed for these calculations.
Very good information. I have one for years. If your a shade tree mechanic they are not extremely difficult to swap out. One of the most accessible parts on a vehicle these days.
I had to replace rear axle after just 80k miles / 6 years, and transfer case this winter - 16 years, on my 2005. I still love it and will never sell it.
@@snsproduc Just do it.... Maybe you were very lucky and though the tires were mismatched the outside diameter was by luck...the same. The trans doesn't care about the brand name or tread pattern...only the outside diameter......
Adhere to the manufacturer recommended maintenance and procedures. There are two things you almost always hear from people who complain constantly about cars: "The recommended maintenance is a scam." and "I can get a few thousand more out of it before having it done"
Would a dash light indicator be a solve? I mean something to let the driver know the system is active… A light constantly going on and off might make a person wonder