Great explanation, Brad. This explains why my surrounds are so much louder than the LFC channels after I ran the Audyssey and applied Dynamic EQ. Personally, I have found that the simple solution is to simply alter the Level of the surround speakers manually after applying the Audyssey and Dynamic EQ settings and leave the bass setting alone.
If you find Dynamic EQ too "heavy-handed" (and for non-movie content it usually is), use the reference level offset to tone it down. -10 usually works well for non-movie content, although the optimal value depends on how the content you play was balanced. Neither games nor music have a proper standard for balancing so it's just trial and error (or just go with -10 for everything except movies which seems to work most of the time, although I haven't tried games on my home theater). The reason Audyssey kills bass for most people is that their subwoofers are too loud and both speakers and subwoofers are too close to walls which excessively amplifies the bass (which could be beneficial if you don't run audyssey and need that bass boost, but is much less optimal than audyssey with dynamic eq making everything balanced).
To my understanding, dynamic EQ compensates for differences in perception of bass at different volume levels. At low volume, dynamic EQ ads a house curve, but at reference it does not alter the bass. A "manual" house curve does not do that. A manual house curve only sounds like it should at reference level. So if you listen at lower volume, I suggest you use dynamic EQ, either without a manual house curve (provided the resulting respone is smooth), or with a less aggressive house curve. More info on what dynamic EQ does can be found in Sound United's videos on Audyssey.
Great vid. Clear understanding of how Audessey has us chasing our tails. Having designed and built home theaters for years I have discovered that with the proper design and construction the best performance is with Direct! No curves and no dynamic eq! Especially when listening to stereo music. I realize that the majority of people don’t have the luxury of being able to create a full custom listening space but should you be able to work with a properly trained person the results are dramatic.
I also used dynamite EQ on my old denon, but the surrounds are turned up to hig. I lose a lot of detail from the fron speakers when its on, but the sub sounds good
Fantastic video and i totally agree i ran audyssey and you are correct everything seemed lifeless flat and left me disappointed and in dispair , thankyou.
Brad i think in all your very helpful and complete Home Cinema setup collection for most about Audyssey we need a new video about House Curves , what HC you are using and why or how you ended up with that personal custum curve , wich HC you started with for baseline ?
I put a +5db house curve in the minidsp HD sloping from 30hz to 100hz. I also use Dynamic EQ. If and that’s a “if”, as I haven’t yet found it to be too overpowering yet, I can simply change the offset in audyssey and lower down audyssseys house curve by 5,10,15db. Way easier to do it that way vs going back in to minidsp to add one later if you find the bass lacking.
Also minidsp would not only require measurement microphone and computer, you also need pre-outs and external amplification for the channels you want to correct unless you want to correct only the subwoofer (which is only responsible for some of the bass you will want to be boosting, you really need to also EQ the speakers to get results that can match what DEQ does). Additionally, a house curve might still be beneficial (sometimes?) on top of dynamic EQ to account for the tilted response a measurement microphone would usually measure in a room.
What are the odds to get you to do a walkthrough on Yamaha's YPAO ( with 3D/High Precision EQ/ R.S.C/Multi-point)? This video had some very solid information and it's greatly appreciated! Thanks for your consideration on the YPAO Room Correction :)
Nice video! Have you tested both ways, i.e. with Dynamic EQ on and a flat sub eq; and then with Dynamic EQ off and a manually set house curve? I am always in 2 minds about DEQ- sometimes it’s so good, other times it bloats the bass. But I think I generally prefer the DEQ route given my listening levels fluctuate between -10 to -25dB content depending.
But how would that works with 2.1 stereo listening to music? I found out movies sound awesome but music REALLY lacks of bass. Can that be because of the DEQ? In fact heavy bass music sound quite ok, then rock or other music genres that don’t have specific bass push, sound very thin and lack of fullness.
Nice video. Re: poor bass response. I have 2 SVS PB1000 subs and a Denon 3700H avr. The other day I recalibrated Audyssey as I moved some speakers around. I just could not get bass power on the subs. After pulling (what hair I do have left) out nothing improved it - until I turned off ECO mode in the Denon!! Problem solved but the Denon does not display ECO mode settings so I went into system settings and turned ECO off. Still did not like that I could not know if ECO was on or off but found that AUTO mode (having nothing to do with the power) setting did display the mode on the tv when volume was increased or source was changed. Goes off after about a second. Pretty cool.
Ah yeah. ECO mode is a killer on pretty much every electronic device if you're looking to maximize performance. Glad you got that squared away. And like you mentioned, some products don't have a clear on/off indicator which makes it even harder. Having picked up an LG C1 OLED recently, I was surprised to see how aggressive their ECO mode is (it's labeled something different) and that it is on by default, right out of the box. I'd imagine if you initially turned the TV on it a somewhat bright room you'd be disappointed, similar to how you would be if you just spent a ton of money on speakers, subwoofers and a receiver only to be underwhelmed by the initial experience.
I have a question. I was wondering if denon avc x... subwoofer volume needs to be set to -10, if you make a house curve like you do? Im thinking so that the AVC has some head room. Dont know if this makes sence😅 I have been making house curves for a few years now thanks to your videos.
Awesome stuff. What is your opinion on turning off all of the settings in Audio->Surround Parameter when a Dolby signal is present? I recently deactivated those and noticed my bass was a lot stronger.
I personally turn all of those off, though I’ll occasionally use the “dialog control” setting to boost the center channel for Christopher Nolan movies like Tenet.
@@HomeTheaterGamer Nice. I’ve had my Denon avr for 4 years now and I just discovered those settings last week lol. I’ve been binging your videos along with Audioholics and Anthony Grimani webinars for the last three weeks. I wish a normal person could see how many times I’ve moved my subs around and run Audyssey.
Does anyone know of a link that explains how much louder for example a 30Hz tone has to be to have the same perceptual loudness as a 80Hz frequency? I remember once reading a Bob Carver article referring to this phenomenon.
Not sure maybe look up loudness per octave, I might know a 30hz tone would essentially use a similar multiplied factor in terms of power over a 80hz tone
yep, just bought a new Cinema 40. Sounds worse than my 15 year old Pioneer. Cross fingers they change Audyssey one day in the future because its honestly bad.
It can be really hit or miss for a lot of people, myself included. Over the years I had developed kind of a technique that never let me down. I did put it in a video which you're more than welcome to check out. I'd be interested to know if it helps you: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fyM_8T0WqWw.html.
hi im currently running a 5.1.4 set up with a dennon avr 4500 amp and I've ran the audssey app but am so confused about all the settings and how to adjust them ? its a minefield of info and I wondered if I send my calibration details to someone the would be kind enough to have a look and help me please
Thank you for your video. I have MiniDSP 2x4 and used the UMik 1 I used a Harman House curve with REW for my Subwoofer. You are saying I should leave DEQ off so that I do not have a curve over a curve?
@M Ladia You are correct. If you set up your house curve then DynamicEQ would be boosting the subwoofer on top of that. Question for you: did you run Audyssey AFTER you did your house curve? If so, did you use the MultiEQ Editor App to to disable Audyssey's room correction for the subwoofer?
@@HomeTheaterGamer I did limited sub frequency to zero. I figured I should because if It not then I’d be wasting what I did in MiniDSP. I’m curious about your AJ speaker crossovers. 110?
@@HomeTheaterGamer I have enjoyed your videos. I'm not sure it's a simple no to using both a house curve and DEQ. I actually use both. Many people (if not most on AVS forum) add an independent sub boost on top of DEQ by increasing the sub trim. Common practice is 4-6db. However a flat across the board sub boost as you have pointed out may not be ideal for some as it may sound less natural and not blend as well with speakers at the crossover. Like many I typically listen well under reference volume. I personally like the volume dependent nature of DEQ yet want additional boost so add a modest house curve via my minidsp instead of a flat boost in the AVR sub trim. I do use the DEQ reference offset at 5 to slightly diminish DEQs effect. In regards to the surrounds I just drop the trims by a few db. So a long winded way of saying it's still very reasonable to use both if done properly.
One thing I am unsure about is what should the sub freq on the back of the sub be? Like the volume, do you go halfway or max it out and let the AV decide what it gets via Audyssey?
This old so you may have already figured out your way of doing things, but if not or you gave up I'll give you my 2 cents. How I personally do it is I go into Audyssey and reset all speakers to 0db on the AVR trim and I manually measure the distance and enter that manually as well (this will change after you run Audyssey and that is okay, don't change it after Audyssey does this). From there I set the subwoofer to something low on its knob (just so I don't have it too loud to do damage). Set the volume on the AVR to 0db (reference level). Then I play the built in Audyssey test tone for the sub and I manually adjust the volume/gain knob until my SPL meter I am holding reads 85db. I then do the same thing on the Front L speaker except I use the built in AVR trim level till the SPL meter reads 85db for that test tone. After that I then run an Audyssey setup and everything is usually good with the subwoofer. In my experience if you set the subwoofer to 1/2 like the setup tells you at the beginning of setup Audyssey sees it too loud and starts reducing the trim and will basically set the subwoofer at -12db, the max floor for the AVR, in the AVR trim before it even tells you to turn down the gain (stupid I know) and this completely destroys the bass. By doing it the way I do it, my sub instead of being at -12db trim will be at like -2 or -3 trim. Then I go back and play the test tones again this time making sure that after Audyssey setup each speaker sits at 75db reference volume. Just to double check. Why 75db? I know it doesn't make sense I don't know why Audyssey chooses 75db for reference volume when reference volume is 85db. It is confusing, but I believe sound engineers have a built in +10db for their reference volume on their tracks or something. Don't quote me, but yeah that is weird. Just know that that is what your Denon or Marantz is calibrating to. 75db
What exactly is "Reference Level"? Does that mean Audyssey is set to "Reference" instead of say "Flat" or does it mean the volume is cranked really high like 80+dB? Thank you for your help!
Reference level is related to the volume. If you set the volume indicator to dB, it often reads a negative number, say -20dB. 0dB is reference level. Reference or flat are EQ curves. Flat achieves a flat response over the entire frequency range, but it might sound a bit harsh. Reference rolls off the high frequencies a bit. In a theatre you should hear the reference curve at reference level.
To me pushing it to -29ish is very loud on my Denon 6700h with ot set to reference. I did increase the levels of each speaker with an spl to make things as even as possible at the sitting location. Now I've also read that increasing that only goes into effect with the setting to off. Mayne that's wrong but to me that's loud and pushing it farther seems like speakers will be deceased lol. Anyway any info here would also help. Thank you
Interesting. I've double checked and there are three cards on this video that have been there since I uploaded it and they are working as I get the links on my phone. I'm at a loss as to why this is happening to some people. It may be an issue on RU-vid's side.
@@HomeTheaterGamer its there on some videos but not there on other videos..and I've checked my laptop. Mobile and tv. I have a Marantz 7015 and want to get the best from my bass. So was looking at the house curve. Want to avoid EQ ... I do have the marantz/denon editor app
Is this when the app with the SVS PB-1000 Pro could come in handy? Add a "house curve" in app? (Getting my PB-1000 pro today w/isolation feet and plan on recalibrating with Audyssey later today)
It potentially could, but I would probably use the app to try and take any massive peaks you have in your room before using Audyssey, then use the MultiEQ Editor app to add the house curve. But in theory, you could use the app to apply a house curve, but if you run Audyssey after that it would simply flatten it out anyway.
@@michaelgabrielgarcia1004 Audyssey should always be last. Do mini DSP/Rew first, then you never have to do it again. Then run Audyssey (and turn off that awful mid-range compensation)
I mean, you can, but since DEQ is always changing depending on volume, the house curve you set will only really stay that way at the volume you used when you set it up. I think it'd be better to either just use DynamicEQ or turn it off and use your own house curve. Personal preference though.
@@HomeTheaterGamer cheers. So are you saying if doing a house curve don't turn ON deq? And just run your own house curve without deq? Yes iv noticed if I do a house curve than turn on deq and run a sweep it looks really strange lol.
Hi, I have question🙂 I made a housecurve with the audyssey app on my new Denon AVC-3700H. And after the room correction results show a housecurve, but also show that the sub is aproxemetly 7db lower from 10-150hz. What should I do. Raise the db in the reciver or on the sub? I dont have rew, so i cant test what the levl of the sub actually is.
Life is too short to spend a lot time setting up an AVR,... Dynamic EQ with Dynamic Volume makes everything good then add a little compression and bam I am dialed in and I still have time to go on a date with a real girl.
