Why doesn't Baseball work in Florida? 

There's no ice in Florida but hockey has become more popular than baseball

In Clearwater, a few miles from the trop, the streets are literally lined with Phillies banners. The Yankees & blue jays also bigger in the area than the Rays. Baseball doesn’t work in Florida because half of the leagues home bases are there. A huge chunk of Florida has ties to other parts of the country and are still fans of those teams

The Rays issue is that they're located in a bad area and play at a bottom 2 stadium in MLB. The Marlins issue is that they've had terrible ownership throughout the franchise's history and only won 85+ games 3 times in 31 years. The Marlins would have decent attendance if they put a consistently good team on the field, the city of Miami just completely gave up on them.

As a latino, florida has a HUGE Latin American population, especially Cubans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Salvadorians, Panamanians, Venezuelans and Colombians. All big baseball nations with either it being their biggest or second biggest sport and all with huge following and fanbases. Its definitely a team problem.

I live in Miami The Marlins have a great location near main highway arteries. That stadium used to be the orange bowl and had sold out games for years on end. The ownership has and always been the problem. Selling off the team after ‘97 and ‘03 and then when we finally make the playoffs again last year, we let kim ang walk.

As a Miami fan... the team sucks, that's why attendance is horrid. MIAMI fans want winners.

For the Tampa Bay Rays, Attendence would be a lot better if they were in a better location. Remember when the braves played at turner field? They fixed that problem with trust park.

It is a location problem with the Rays period!!

A couple things to add with the Rays in particular. The biggest issue is for sure the amount of transplants that move here and bring their fandom with them then force their kids to root for their team but there are a couple other points. There is virtually no advertising or effort on the Rays part throughout Tampa. Drive around the Tampa Bay area and you will see "Go Bolts" and "Go Bucs" billboards and signs hanging everywhere no matter the time of year. I hardly ever see, if at all, any Rays signage outside of the stadium in the area. There might be a small city banner hanging if the Rays make the playoffs. Cheap ownership who doesn't spend money on the roster also doesn't help to grow the game in their own area. The Rays actually have a top TV rating year in and year out. Ticket sales/attendance is surprisingly low of the way teams make their money. I don't think looking at just attendance is accurate to judge a fanbase, especially considering how isolated/bad the Trop is and how hot it is in Florida during the summer months.

If the the dolphins and heat were run like the marlins then they wouldn’t have good attendance either, it’s an event town

In 27 years of Rays history, they have outdrawn the Lightning ON AVERAGE ATTENDANCE only 9 times. This despite the fact that Tropicana Field has had, at times, more than twice the capacity that the Lightning could host.

Lot of transplants in Florida

It’s a sport issue, because hockey doesn’t have an issue pulling the numbers in Florida. Arenas were packed for the Panthers/Lightning Stanley Cup Playoff series

Remember that the loandepot park hosted the Caribbean series in february and the attendance for the final game (Venezuela vs Dominican Republic) was 36,677!!!

Its Miami! people just have better things to do than watch a pretty bad baseball team! The Rays ballpark location is terrible , they'd have much better attendance if they played in Tampa.

The location of marlins park isn’t a problem. The Miami Heat have no problem getting attendance. People not being at their seats for Heat games has nothing to do with traffic. They are in line for beer and I would know since I go to Heat games. Marlins park is in a better location because it has several arteries for traffic and for the WBC, there was no traffic issue and they sold out. The attendance issue is because everyone is a Yankees or Mets fan in Miami. The Heat and Panthers get more fans than the marlins and that’s because they built up a fan base and the marlins failed to do so. The marlins needed to sign a bunch of Cuban national team players and location Miami players and that would’ve generated a ton of interest like Jose Fernandez did. When he pitched, attendance spiked. The marlins are also broadcasted on Bally Sports and that network has decided to go to war with cable so that only Comcast carries it and most people in Miami don’t have Comcast so the marlins fans can’t even watch games on TV.

As a Red Sox fan in FL, my first game was a Rays game. Half the crowd was Sox fans.

The Rays and Marlins are two of the youngest franchises in MLB. Baseball, probably more than any other major American sport, is very traditional. Lifelong fandoms are often established at a very young age. The generation that grew up with these teams are reaching adulthood and likely beginning the process of passing down that fandom to their children. Also, Florida as everyone knows is a destination for both tourists and retirees from other parts of the country. Other fanbases will probably always represent well in Florida stadiums. The other thing this video misses completely is the TV ratings. The Rays have one of the highest average TV and streaming viewerships in MLB (again, probably in part due to the younger generation, many of whom can’t yet buy tickets or drive to the ballpark). It’s a long-term game. Give these teams some time.

Baseball worked just fine in Florida till the Marlins SCREWED their fan base not once but twice. Player Fire Sales after 1997 and 2003. If I recall correctly, after the 97 World Series, the Marlins waited till AFTER ticket renewals to send key Players packing. Marlins USED to have a fan base that showed up. Marlins screwed them and have fielded nothing but garbage since. Rays should move North of Tampa.

Of course it works, that's the reason spring training exists in Florida!

It's a location for both of these teams, I'll tell you first hand as a person that lives in Miami that getting to the Marlins stadium is one of the most aggravating things about the Marlins stadium otherwise it's a beautiful stadium with very good amenities. But it's horrific location is something that I cannot get over. Once it's 20 minutes till game start it's impossible to get in there and find any type of parking at all and since Florida is a mainly car driven society that makes it incredibly hard to attend games

As a Dominican Floridian who is also a Rays fan (and used to be a Marlins fan, more on that later), I see this topic all the time and I always have to defend my fellow Floridians. So, here's the list of reasons why baseball "struggles" in Florida: Prologue) Its actually a misconception. The Rays draw pretty good TV/radio numbers, and the Marlins also draws in better-than-expected TV ratings. And don't get me started on how hype it is in South Florida during the World Baseball Classic and Caribbean Series. 1) Tropicana Field has needed replacing for over a decade, it was built in the 1980s, and its time for it to no longer represent a professional baseball team. The staffing is always great, the closed dome is something we can get used to especially in the summer, but the stadium itself is dated as hell. 2) Tropicana Field is in the worst part of St. Pete. If it were built by the Pier or by the beaches, even somewhere closer to Clearwater it would draw better numbers. However--- 3) Tampa is where the next stadium should be built, period. It is a mission and a half if you're living in between Lakeland and Winter Park to get to the stadium, the location is awful. If the Rays were to end up in Downtown, or Ybor City, or Citrus Park, or the Florida State Fairgrounds, or even by Busch Gardens, we'd see significantly stronger numbers. 4) Florida was first a Spring Training Baseball venue before a professional baseball venue, which means lots of transplants with their fanbases making their way down here. And since baseball is the professional sport that is arguably the most traditional and least-bandwagony, it results in many Yankees, Phillies, Mets, Cardinals, and even Pirates fans also dominating the spaces of Tampa Bay and South Florida. 5) Marlins Park is fully funded by the taxpayers thanks to a deal the ownership backed out on within a season of its opening. Little Havana remains eternally bitter about it. 6) Rays and ESPECIALLY the Marlins have had historically terrible and cheap ownership that refuses to spend, always trades and loses talented players, and is okay collecting profits while also expecting the fans to show up every year. Then Rays ownership infamously tried doing a split-season format by spending half the season in Montreal. Come on now. 7) Marlins and ESPECIALLY the Rays have historically done a terrible job having a consistent team, and also reaching out to further corners of Florida to try to draw in more fans. The market of Orlando is essentially ignored by the Rays even though we do have a lot of fans living in Central Florida. Hope this helps.

Went to a game there recently while on vacation, its not even close to downtown Tampa. I think they'd be just fine if they were actually in Tampa. Also the people that live in Tampa all seem to be from the northeast so they are big Yankees + Red Sox + Mets fans its hard to get a loyal following for the Rays

The primary reason that the Rays drew less than 40,000 for two playoff games is because MLB catered to the big markets, surprise, surprise. Not only were their fans stuck with weekday afternoon games, but the times were announced less than 24 hours before the first pitch.

Wrong. People in rural Florida care about baseball. The entire north central part of the state cares about baseball. The problem is the teams are inaccessible from the areas of the state that truly love baseball. Put a team in northern Orlando or western Jacksonville and they'll THRIVE.

I’m 30 years old. Back in the elementary/middle school days, everyone played baseball. South Florida loves baseball. But when we would ask friends what team they like they always would like an out of state team because their parents used to live there. Marlins do have fans, but they’re not die hard yet. Winning will draw incredible crowds but until then, it’ll be deserted. For evidence on this take, check the Florida Panthers. They are committed to winning and now they have the top attendance in the 2024 playoffs.

1. Start time and traffic. Very hard to get to St. Pete for 7 PM game. Lighting has the same issue going the other way ever since they went from 7:30 to 7 starts. Lightning make due with the larger city and population density. 2. Minor League ball is everywhere. Everyone in the bay area is 5 - 30 mins from a minor League park. More affordable to boot. Plus they pull in all the Philly, Yankees, Jays and Pirates transplant fans. 3. Day games don't work in St. Pete. No one takes an afternoon off to go. This isn't Chicago. In fact weekday day games should be a dying breed because they don't draw. 4. No team attachment. Lightning and Bucs keep and pay popular players. They even track ROI on the popularity of players. Rays just dump every popular player once they decide to cut salary. Why buy a jersey or get invested in something that's a revolving door. 5. The last thing would be the park itself. It's not great but serviceable. I think if it wasn't premium pricing for seats and concessions they would stand a chance in that building. But a bleeder ticket, onsite parking, 1 beer and peanuts will run you at least $60-$75. Bring a family it's hundreds.

They gotta build the new Park next to the Buccs stadium and turn the area into a sports village. Theres 0 draw to St Petes regardless if the team is good or if they get a new stadium

I'm from Tampa and lived here my whole life. I highly recommend anyone who has the chance read the book stadium for rent, it explains a lot. Here is the problem with Miami: 1. They've had 2 fire sales after winning world series. People can't trust the owners. 2. They tore down a legendary stadium still being used by UM football to build a stadium in an area that a lot of people don't want to be at night called little Havana. 3. Ozzy Guillen alienated a lot of fans with his horrible comments about castro. 4. No one liked when Jeter came in. 5. They traded away the best young prospect in their entire history under Jeter to his old team for peanuts. 6. They can't even keep young talent around long enough to be competitive like the rays. As for Tampa: 1. The location is awful, no one wants to go backwards after work from their home. People don't want to drive on one of 2 bridges at 10 pm on a weeknight (70% of games) for an hour or more if there's a wreck. 2. There's not much to do around the park, look at other successful parks like Colorado and Atlanta they have stuff around it. The rays and St. Pete only started pitching that idea of building up around the park 3 years ago. What a joke. 3. Its hard to cheer for a team when you only remember 2 or 3 names and only 1 or 2 last longer than 4 seasons. 4. Our owner keeps jerking us around. Anytime a good idea for a stadium comes around he makes crazy demands. In Downtown St. Pete he said we have 2 weeks until the election, you better vote yes or I'll move the team. They voted no. When Ybor came along everyone was on board and he said fine pay for all of it. Tampa said no, we will do what we did for the bucs and pay for 160 million. The rays said we can only do 150 million out of 800 Million take it or leave it. Tampa said, lets adjust the bucs money for inflation and offer 300 million. You pay 500 million. The Rays said we can only do 150 million and maybe another 150 if we get a good naming rights deal and deposits on suites and other money makers for 300 million out of 800 million. Tampa said let us do the math, we just had an election a month ago and funny how this plan came out after. The rays got impatient after 2 days of thinking and said we can't work with Tampa, we give up. It's St. Pete or bust. While constantly saying the first city to build us a stadium wins after. 5. Our owner try to force a duel city idea and told us we would split the team with Montreal if we built a 500 million open air stadium. Then told us well it wouldn't be 50/50 you would get them in April and Montreal would get them the rest of the year because its too hot in Tampa lol. 6. We have good TV numbers. At one point we were last in attendance, but 13th in TV viewership which is amazing considering we are one of the smaller markets. 7. MLB told St. Pete to build the dome and then screwed us over time and time again. So in the late 70s 2 groups emerged trying to bring baseball to the bay area. One in Tampa and one in St. Pete. Tampa wanted to find an owner first who would then build a stadium and even bought a few teams with low attendance to make it happen. Minn, Texas, and Oakland at all one point were partially owned by a Tampa Businessman, but every time MLB said we have to give a local owner a chance to emerge we can't have another Seattle debacle on our hands like we did with the piolets. Then it eventually came out that MLB was tired of teams moving and realized it was because they wouldn't give them enough time to build a fanbase. One rep even stating it takes 2 sometimes 3 generations to build a fanbase. While that was Going St. Pete got a hot tip from MLB saying look at every city that got a team, they either had an mlb stadium ready or had a AAA stadium they could use temporary. So St. Pete built the trop. Then they almost got the white sox, giants, and mariners to move. before getting new deals or new owners. We even got screwed in 93 when Miami who put together a last minute plan got the expansion bid over us who had been trying for years. So yeah Tampa needs a better location for the stadium and a little more time to build that fan base.

Remember the days when people said soccer couldn’t work in Florida then Orlando city happened.

The Trop is the worst stadium in North America and the fact they are going to double down on another stadium in St. Petersburg is insane

Tampa resident (Seminole Heights) here and I can’t stress how much of a nightmare 275 is trying to get over the bridge to the Trop. The stadium feels like a wet basement when you’re inside and other than Fergs their really aren’t a lot of spots to hang out pre and post game within walking distance to grab a bite to eat and a cold beer. Another thing is knowing that developed players will be gone as soon as it’s time for a new contract makes it even harder to get invested in the team. I think a stadium on the Tampa side in Ybor City or Channel-side could work. The Brightline Train is trying to expand from Orlando down to Ybor which would at least alleviate some of the traffic on 4 and potentially offer another option of transportation for folks wanting to see a game who live in Orlando, Plant City, Lakeland ect ect. They say the train would be able to get to Tampa from Orlando in an hour. I’ve sat on 4 in traffic for hours just trying to get from Lakeland back to Tampa. Who knows what will happen though.

Florida's population and job markets just keeps growing, so MLB should want to have a team there. Here are my solutions for each team respectively: Rays: Better stadium, move to Orlando (more of a central location where citizens from all over the state can go see a game). Marlins: Build stronger community relationships with businesses, schools, and charities, and have a playoff caliber team. Both teams should have better public transportation as well, but the cities' politicians would need to obviously approve funding for this.

1. Move rays to Tampa/Ybor City

As far as marlins go. Previous owners killed off fandom. Every time they get good, they would chop it all up right after. Sliced n diced. Ppl got fed up, lost all trust. *insert bush’s fool me once/twice quote*

Two arguments why baseball struggles in Florida. First, where it (baseball)is very popular, it's played outside, and for the most part, comfortable weather. In the northeast, people have been couped up in their homes in the winter, and when good weather finally arrives, they want to get outside, and baseball outdoors provides that. When the weather starts to cool down, attendance up north is good because people know this will be their last few times they can get out before weather make it rough. In Florida, the summer weather is brutal, even at night, and being outside is not enjoyable, and a domed stadium cant replicate the outdoors. The second argument is that Florida lacks business with the resources to afford season tickets as a company perk. In many cities up north, where companies are headquartered. Season tickets are available for clients and staff to use. Small businesses in Florida don't have that kind of revenue to afford an option like that. Combine that particularly in the Tampa Bay area, the overall income levels of individuals and companies makes it difficult for fans to afford a full year of tickets, parking, concessions, etc.

I grew up in Miami Florida and lived here most of my life. Why can’t the Marlins fill up the stands? These are counties that have sellout crowds to the brim for the Dolphins and the Heat. The issue, first and foremost is location. Where the World Series with Yankees say 50,000 plus crowds. That stadium where the Orange Bowl once stood is not the place for a 7 pm game. Yes, it’s a dome and yes we can see a game without leaving at midnight due to rain. It should have been built right next to the Heat Arena (whatever they call it now?). Folks get out of work and walk over to the stadium to avoid traffic to get home at the same time and leave their cars in their regular spot. The other cause is the gutting of winning team and their owners. We get to contended levels or win the World Series to just see the teams gutted out. Hence, that “GM Derek Jeter.” That group flipped the team as many saw it, for 30 pieces of silver.

One of the issues why MLB doesn't work in Florida is due to the amount of minor league baseball available. With MLB you're fighting traffic, congestion, high ticket prices, overpriced concessions & overpriced parking. Why deal with that when you can go to a minor league game closer to home and see a game for less than $10.

One thing you didn't bring up. Many people in the Tampa Bay area are not native Floridians, therefore there is no lifelong attachment (or any attachment at all) to the Rays. Many transplants who move here already have a favorite MLB team from the location they moved from.

From CBS Sports: "New York Yankees team president Randy Levine criticized the Tampa Bay Rays and the Miami Marlins' reliance on receiving revenue sharing money from larger-market teams during a panel at Sportico's Invest in Sports conference. "A lot more focus has to be on individual teams to do better and not just rely on revenue sharing," Levine said, according to the Associated Press. "You can't have two Florida teams averaging 15,000 fans. You can't have it. You don't go into an NFL stadium or an NBA arena and see that. "And I think that there's been a dependency issue that's got to get better. ... The commissioner has done an incredible job, but now it's on individual teams. Instead of complaining and whining, 'We need more money,' you got to take some responsibility." I think I read somewhere a while back that the Rays and Marlins actually make a profit most years by keeping their team payroll low with the revenue sharing putting them in the black financially.

The issue with any Florida team is the fact no one for the last 150 years has really been “from” Florida. Lived here my whole life but my family is from Pennsylvania so we’re Philly fans. It happens with every sport here, it’s why the Magic have never had insane traction either. Teams need to be really good for Floridians to like them. Florida for a while was known as a retirement state so it’s a bunch of out of staters, and the teams were never really good enough for the people here to want to root for them. On top of that, which I don’t see a lot of people realize, is that Florida is an entertainment state. In a lot of northern states if there isn’t a big organization’s team playing that week then they have nothing going on, but there’s always something here to do in Florida. So no one really cares enough to go to a sporting event

The Rays MAKE players into stars. They’re the pitching factory of mlb

I've lived in the southern part of Florida twice. It's a little hard to describe, the population has doubled in 30 years every time you go somewhere it's pretty much a hassle, tons of traffic, always waiting in line at the store, etc. To get someone to go watch a baseball game is a tall order, you better have star players and a competitive team and still, people might choose to stay at home and either watch the game on TV or Netflix something else. I remember a long drive from South Miami to the north of Florida, Tallahassee. Filling up for gas in Tallahassee was like living in a whole new world, so peaceful and room to breathe for once. The thing is, a really nice place with nice weather will cause too many people to come and ruin everything.

I live in the Tampa area. I only really go to the Trop when the team I grew up rooting for comes to town.

I live in Palm Beach County. I have been to three Marlins games. I enjoyed them, but I won't go again because driving down to Miami is not worth the effort. Besides, I can watch nearly every game on TV. Also, I'm still a fan of my team up north and feel no connection to the city of Miami. I think I'm typical of many people around here, even though I'm more of a baseball fan than 99% of them.

I live about an hour north of Tampa, and the Rays games are a pain to get to when compared to a Bucs game or a Lightning game, unless you are already in the area of the Trop. It seems like the residents of St. Pete dont really care much for going to games, and the people that would go to the games (Brandon, Temple Terrace, New Tampa, Carrollwood/Northdale, Wesley Chapel/Land O Lakes, Oldsmar) don't want to make that trek to the Trop. Now, I will say when I have gone to games at the Trop, the experience has been great. Comfortable seats. Sight lines are great, the concessions are nice, and I actually like being in the A/C, not getting burned up by the Florida sun. The other problem for Tampa is the minor league teams, which are in just about every town or neighborhood. Why go to a Rays game when the Clearwater Thrashers have a great park in a good location, or the Dunedin Blue Jays. As for Miami, its about having a really good team with star power. IMO, Miami sports fans are "fair weather" fans. Look at the Panthers. 4-5 years ago, nobody showed up for a game. They've added some star players and put a great product on the ice, and now people show up to Sunrise and sell out the place. Same thing for the Heat. Same for the Dolphins. If you don't put a good product out there, the fans don't show up in Miami.

The Rays will draw at least 2 million in the first season in their new ballpark, which looks to be very cool. The question is, how much longer can they continue to win 90-plus games/season in a division of high rollers and the rules stacked against them?

Don't forget a lot of people in florida grew up as Braves fans

It's a combination of many things. It's the lower payroll, military bases therefore many people relocate every few years so it's hard for kids to grow up and build a fanbase, elderly retire here. They don't sign superstars to long term deals to create a large fanbase.

and yet both hockey teams have been fantastic lately...it's a head scratcher

The Trop is built in the wrong city. Attendance wouldnt be a problem for the Rays if they played in downtown Tampa. The Marlins have always had a problem with ownership. Every time they won a World Series, their owner always sells off the team and they always seem to shoot themselves in the foot with the front office. Bad front office and refusal to spend money on big name players makes no fans come, no fans in the building leads to financial issues for the team, and the cycle repeats.

My biggest problem with the Marlins is stadium location and player turnover. When the Marlins played at Joe Robbie stadium i would gonto about 15 games every year. Since moving to the new Stadium ive been to 6 games in the last 10 years.

I think that in the Tampa area most like the idea of having baseball available to them when they feel like watching it. That’s why spring training worked there. They knew they had a limited time. Now they come and go as they please and think it will always be there for when they feel like watching.

Florida Man is too busy to go to a baseball game.😂

Local Rays fan here. Location location location. I live 30m from downtown Tampa and the stadium is an hour or so away A stadium actually in Tampa would help the most to me and everyone else I know into baseball. Needs to stay a dome for sure it’s too hot here most the year.

I think Orlando might be able to support a baseball team if the stadium is built in the tourist district/International Drive area.

Was in the Tampa Bay Area for the Royal Rumble back in January. The common joke while in line was that this was the fullest that Tropicana Field had ever been, even during World Series year.

For the marlins, it’s a team problem. Look at the panthers they started winning and people started showing up

Baseball and golf work great for business entertainment because of the natural breaks in the sport.

Speaking for myself, I spent so many years living in Florida rooting for the Atlanta Braves (my whole childhood) that by the time Florida had a team, I just didn't care. I still root for the Braves. I'll drive the six plus hours to go see the Braves before I'll go see the Rays or Marlins. Everyone I know in Florida are Braves fans.

What do you think Spring Training has to do with the poor attendance?

If I lived in Florida, I wouldn't go to Rays or Marlins games either - I like open-air outdoor stadiums. I'll go to a few Jays games at Rogers Centre during the warmer weather months provided there's no threat of rain so that the roof will be open. Given the humidity and rain in Florida during the summer months, it's not a good baseball environment. Should've just stuck with spring training games only in Florida, then teams head north in April before the bad weather season hits.

They made a mistake not giving Orlando the team instead of Tampa and Miami. Orlando is a younger town, tons of tourism and it's overflowing with people moving here.

The real problem is that Tropicana Field is in a horrendous location on the way to nowhere. The stadium is bland and outdated. On the positive side, it is clean and comfortable. They need a new stadium in the downtown area off I4 or I275 or perhaps near the fairgrounds. They will draw much better getting people from Orlando and up and down I75.

2023 WBC was a HUGE success in Miami.

Florida, North Carolina, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Louisiana, and Texas are states huge in sports. Most people can be entertained by all kinds of sports in those states year around for less than what they would pay for watching in-person a professional sport event. With the exception of Texas, the south and the south west values american football way more, followed by basketball. Football is huge in Florida. Florida has great football at the high school and college levels. That is where regular people put their money into.

It’s a location and ownership problem with the Rays. There’s lots of hockey transplants here to and the Lightning still have a dominant fan base. I’d go to games more if they were in Tampa/Ybor. But I still care. I watch them on TV and I just bought some city connect merch.

The area is mostly transplants usually from the North East or Midwest. Tickets range from 10 to 200 dollars, parking 20 maybe. Concession easily 20 plus . I enjoy Rays Games. But staying till the end fighting to get out of the parking lot. For me with a 6 AM start time for work it easier to watch on TV and the 9th inning is over go to bed. An WWE was held at the trop and it was sold out. The Lightning and Bucs have good Attendance.

If we were to stereotype the Florida demographics and economy, it would skew toward retirees, transplants, and tourism. We’ve already talked about retirees and transplants having sports ties elsewhere. But for a significant amount of jobs related to retirement or tourism are in hospitality and services. When do those workers have to work? Correct, they often have to work nights and weekends. It doesn’t make a lot of sense when many people don’t have regular 9-5 jobs. For that reason I’m skeptical of the As in Las Vegas. There is a lot of white collar work moving to Florida, but it’s still relatively new and will take some time for that culture to demographically set in (if it ever will).

I enjoyed the Grapefruit League, especially when I got to see games at Dodger Town in Vero Beach for a couple of years before they moved to Arizona. Spring training is also an issue due to long distances teams have to bus.. That said, I did enjoy games at Tropicana and Marlin's Stadium.

Blue Wahoos stadium capacity is 5028 and average 4250 a game and draw about the same as the IceFlyers hockey team per game in a year both teams made the playoffs. Maybe MLB at MLB prices don't work, but MiLB sure does

1. Get rid of the damn roof at the Trop, renovate the entire exterior. 2. Bring back some of the features that made LoanDepot park great. 3. Build that stadium in Tampa or Ybor City.

I didn't understand the hate for Dolphin Stadium until i went to a game that had a rain delay in the second inning. The rest of the game was brutal. And i have no problem sitting in a hot stadium for football. I was disappointed when the Rays barley drew for the playoffs. It's the playoffs!

Baseball works in Fenway but it's been away fans that have packed the place.

I live in South Florida, and I can tell you that the Marlins issue is a management issue. They develop good talent and immediately sell them. When you have a team that’s interested in profiting off selling players over championships or wins, why would the fans continue to support the team? The new Marlins stadium is awesome too. It’s one of the best stadiums I’ve ever been to. It’s enclosed, air conditioned, you can walk the entire park easily as it’s an open circle all the way around, there’s tons of good food and drinks, etc… But people don’t wanna bother supporting a team that’s just gonna sell any decent players we get, the second they have a good year. Look at 2016….

You ought to do one on Cincinnati. Many mid big cities around that don't have teams.

It's baseball. The WWE sold tix well at Tropicana field...

The Rays don't own their market. They share it with seven other teams that train in the area every spring. Each has a fairly small but loyal fan base comprised of transplants there. Remove them, and Rays attendance creases by 30-35 percent.

I went to the Tiger's Baseball game once in Flordia. But part of my leg got sunburned.

I think one thing the Rays could implement with this new Stadium is maybe having a shuttle or fan bus from Tampa, (which is where the majority of the TB Area population is located) for Game Days. One of the cool things about going to see the Rays vs. The Yankees in NYC is riding the subway, I was dropped off right at Yankee Stadium, then after the game hopped back on to my hotel. No driving, no parking fees, no traffic. So just an idea that could maybe tone down the travel excuse to the Trop

There is demand for baseball in FL. Spring Training, high school, and minor league games draw. Too much else to do and MLB price’s don’t appeal to retirees. A new stadium attracting fans is a fallacy. The Mets have never drawn as well as they did at Shea Stadium.

I can only speak for myself, I'm a senior on a fixed income, I don't spend to go to pro-sports games anymore, nor do I spend to concerts, etc.....have to be very frugal these days !

Marlins is definitely a combination of team, ownership, and marketing. WBC had staggering numbers at loan depot. The Rays just play in a horrendous location, cheap owner, and a majority of baseball fans in the area are not Rays fans. Central Florida is a hot spot for Rays fans and baseball fans in general. Retired people in St Pete and gulf coast in general do not care about going to a shitty stadium to see a baseball game, especially if a majority of them are just fans of other teams.

Me and my family were born in florida and most are still here. We are all die hard atlanta braves fans going as far back as our dad to us and now our kids

I live an hour away from Miami and it takes me 4 hours with traffic just to get to the stadium. Convenience is a big reason. Joe Robbie is easy to get to because it’s not in the city. I know the Marlins played there but it was hot as hell to go to those games. Marlins current stadium in an easier to get to location would equal more attendance

This isn’t just limited to MLB. NBA and NFL have a similar issue. Also don’t get me started on the NHL where the problem is much greater. I know a woman in Miami that tells me even the Dolphins games get outnumbered by Giants and Jets fans when they show up there. It’s how Florida is, being a transplant state.

The sport itself is very popular there but it seems that the markets just aren’t there for native teams because of spring training and other teams having major facilities there.

I live in Florida. Too many transplants down here. There is no shortage of baseball fans, but everyone loves the team they grew up with. Tons and tons of Phillies, Yankees, and Red Sox fans...

I live about an hour or so from the stadium but I’ve only been there twice. Both when I had free tickets. It’s a pain to get to and that is a higher negative.

well I saw the rays play the white sox on saturday and the brewers last night. They traveled better than I thought as there were plenty of rays fans both games.

Baseball does work in Florida. The Gators and Seminoles do real well in attendance for college baseball compared to the rest of the country. The SEC overall for baseball does well in attendance.

My friend, a marlins fan, is always telling me florida fans are fair weather, the teams must be good to attract good attendance, but both rays and marlins made the playoffs so I don't know if that excuse really checks out.

DG, I hope you and your followers read this long comment as I have experience this hands on. The issue is a combination of location, marketing especially, greed in baseball, and the state of Florida itself. I can explain... As a former resident of the Tampa Bay Area and visited Miami a few times for 14 years and is a avid baseball fan. Location: Both the Rays and Marlins are in not so great locations. You have one in the Gas Light District in downtown St. Petersburg away from what is happening that is populated both in St. Pete and especially Tampa. Reason why I say this, if they proceeded with the Al Lang Stadium project in 2008, it would have made a big difference. Also if located in downtown Tampa where the Lightning play, it would have driven numbers. Where it is right now not the best neighborhood at night if there is not a ballgame. I wouldn't be caught dead there, it is truly the hood. Trust me. The other is in Little Havana, not the Tourist part of it. An actual residential neighborhood that didn't want the team there first off. Didn't even want to pay for the ballpark for that matter. They did have the Orange Bowl ever since I think 1936 or 1937, the neighborhood wasn't really developing in that time frame so that was a landmark for the neighborhood, but when this construction came into play. The pitch was from David Samson was to the City of Miami is how can we compete with the rest of MLB baseball. The City of Miami fell for it and paid majority of the construction of the Stadium. The neighborhood is completely different and having a ballpark in a residential area is not very appealing in my opinion, this is in the wake of downtown and ballpark districts. The ballpark should have been in a more attractive area that has hotels restaurants, retail, etc. Crime is the same issue in both Miami and St. Petersburg, not the safest area at night. If they had better locations with more attractive surroundings, possibly would make a profit, as you can see, they are hemonogging money, even though they are not showing their books, I really think they are not turning a profit in ticket sales but in RSN TV deals only, which leads to my next point. Marketing: I now live in Greenville, South Carolina and the territory for marketing for baseball for MLB is the Atlanta Braves and it can be debated their will be demand if a second MLB team, either expansion or relocation, would make a buzz and will sell tickets and create a following in this part of the country. In Florida, marketing is not really a priority. If you are not in these areas, you wouldn't even know there is a baseball team. Why are the Buccaneers and Dolphins popular? The marketing. Why are the Lightning and Panthers popular? Both marketing and winning made them known. With proper investments in marketing to attract not only a local audience, maybe a state audience, or even a regional audience. You want people to see the product on the field, create buzz, create a following. Remember both teams are around 30 years old and doesn't really have much history, especially in a small market. Investment in marketing creating a team that people want to see and even in player development, create stars, not just fire sale them. Which brings me to the next point. Greed: Remember majority business owners, billionaires and wealthy CEOs will pay very little to make a business profit and find any way to make a buck with the minimum investment possible. Look at the Oakland A's owner John Fisher, he is the prime example on how an MLB owner is. With the exception of a few owners that pay Luxury Taxes in addition to their ball clubs payroll. They will invest very little in developmental and once they are valued at a high price they will send them away to a bigger market franchise. We have seen this too many times in sports, but baseball is a prime example of it. Also it is very expensive to go to the game anyway. You have to pay big for parking, food, tickets, merchandise for the experience of a ballpark. Do you see ballparks becoming lesser and lesser in capcity? It's more 35,000 seats than 50,000 seats close to 25 years ago. People would rather spend that money at Disney World, Busch Gardens, Universal, etc and for even cheaper the beach. The greed on these owners are impossible to please and want to make a dividend whatever is necessary. That's how the rich stay rich, in addition that baseball as much as I love the sport growing up, it's dying. It has been dying for the last 15 years with the rise of social media, the end of RSNs and cable TV in itself. You have to either have a sports package, which is more money, if wanting out of market teams, it cost what $30 a month, or maybe $160 a year! You want to appeal to a new audience, not scare them away with their wallets! You have to make it more affordable and more accessible for MLB games to be popular. That's owners main source of income, advertising and TV deals. The paying minimum investment and making a return big is a way to make more for less. It's not all teams, let me be clear. Now the last point. Florida: In Florida, years ago baseball was King with Spring Training and the Florida State League for almost 100 years. Now even the minor leagues you barely get a minivan group of kids to go to a minor league stadium in Florida. Meanwhile in other states, minor leagues are a spectacle for each town that draws tickets. In Greenville, SC Asheville NC, and soon Spartanburg SC, it's very popular and affordable, and people enjoy the games. The marketing is king throughout the local minor league areas throughout the United States, why not Florida? It's a tourist destination for starters. Out of towners and snowbirds will come. Spring Training is full of them and a lot are loyal to traditional teams. The Yankees, Red Sox, and Mets are prime examples of that. That's how baseball has been popular so why a new rooted baseball team? It didn't work as I witnessed. Why did Hockey, Football, and Basketball work? It's because they are new professional sports to the area? Football has a following even in college and that sports growing success will keep going. Basketball was very new and only had 2 teams in the last 35 years and it drew success because of how rare it is, same as hockey. They market their product and invest into their product and made it a spectacle for new sports to come to the Sunshine State. Look at all the stars they have in basketball from Shaquille O'Neal to LeBron James. Hockey stars grew in Florida and the current owners made it successful to watch and it is marketable. Florida doesn't do that to a dying sport, with so much to offer in Florida, baseball is not priority. In addition to that, Governor Ron DeSantis also refuses to have state taxes which is majority of the tourism income goes too, will go to major league stadiums. So trying to pitch a public funded baseball stadium is by far a next to no at this point. Is the Rays at risk to relocate, yes. That's why it's going to be on the 11th hour this year if they get city money to build that stadium, but they will ask to Sternburg. Is it worth the 1.3 billion dollars? I was in support of the Rays in Tampa Bay when I lived there and even became a fan despite being a Yankee-rooted fan. Now that I spent 10 years out and seeing from the outside in, how they are doing, they are a great team to watch! I love them, but with all these issues I stated both in concern for both the Marlins and Rays. Those are the big problems. In other words, Manfred MAKE BASEBALL AFFORDABLE and MARKETABLE AGAIN! No Pun intended, stop focusing on the owners needs and focus on the fans needs, the loyal one, in addition to marketing to the Gen Z and Alpha demographic. If you read this, did you agree with me? If not, why?

There’s just also a lot to do in Florida outside of sporting events. Where instead of spending your weekend at a baseball or football game there’s 1 million other things you can be doing you can’t say the same for a lot of other places. On top of the fact that a lot of people transplant from other states into Florida where they still root for their home teams.

Because most people that can afford a MLB games that live in Miami and Tampa are people that own property there as second homes for the winter and they go back to there city in the summer. And cheer for their own teams .

I'm surprised to learn that Pittsburgh does not have a basketball NBA team!

The new schedule fornat hurts the Rays. A lot of baseball fans are transplants. They need more games against the Yankees and Red Sox, and an interleague series with Atlanta.

rays need be in tampa bay or orlando

Some of the best baseball players are from Florida. It could work, they just need to find better situations. Same with hockey in Arizona. It definitely can work. The best player in hockey right now is from Arizona. The Coyotes old arena is way out in the middle of nowhere in Glendale, and a better location will help, and people will show up to the Coyotes games.

IMHO: I do not think it is a Team problem, but a Baseball problem. For Florida, it is know for Spring Training and only that(Arizona has the same issue). Nobody really care about Pro sports there unless it is the Dolphins, or you win a lot over a long extended period of time .......