Why Halo will Fail if it Follows Trends 

This was another older idea I had that I recently put together. Hopefully it has some interesting nuggets for you all to enjoy. I have another major project in the works so stay tuned for more! Once again thank you all for the support.

_"Where even if you only appealed to 10% of the group, you would get all of them"_ Case in point, For Honor is the only game of its kind. Despite many of its ingrained flaws, and several issues that can make it unbearable to play, it's still genuinely unique. For a game of its kind, it will never quite thrive in the same vein as other genres, yet it stands on its own and has retained that *"10% audience"* simply because no one else has replicated it.

In reference to when you said you'd rather have a game where 10 people say the loved it than have 90 people who just like it... With Halo 2 and Halo 3 they had 90 people who LOVED it. They shouldn't have strayed from that.

"The only BR we are interested in is Battle Rifle..."

I knew this is how I felt about halo and where it's going, but I could not put it into words quite right, and Favyn did just that, amazing

One thing I don't get is that CS:GO is among the most popular games today and it has very "old fashion" mechanics... the idea that halo couldn't do the same if given the chance just seems painfully flawed.

I can’t tell if Fayn likes his h5 armor or uses it as an example of h5 failure

Halo's favorite trend to follow rn is having disastrous launches Edit: this was a meme dudes plz dont argue :P

Share this on every platform you have! Favyn is the truth.

I used to get annoyed when playing halo, especially halo 3, because it felt like no matter how hard I tried, how fast I could react, or how accurate my shot was, I'd always lose, getting about a .5 kd. I hated how slow it felt to move through the levels, especially on btb, and I hated how long the ttk was for every weapon, they felt like throwing dish sponges at people. Then one day, I realized something very important; halo is not COD in any way, shape, or form. I began to appreciate halo for what it was. I began to think about how simple the game's mechanics were, and how to use the tools given to me, and I began to test my ideas, and within the next game, I became a true monster, just like those who pummeled me match after match, and in many cases outclassing them entirely. Even now, I'm almost always at the top of the leaderboard. Now, Halo is one of my favorite games, though it was always (the game that really got me into gaming as a whole was Reach) I found an even greater appreciation for the franchise, and I really hope to see infinite have a multiplayer more like those of old, especially halo 1, because that one is my favorite.

Anyone notice that 343's halo is much like that of Disney's star wars? *Halo Reach and Star wars Revenge of the sith* : Orginal creators sell their creation to a different company after they finish it with a prequel *Halo 4 and Star wars Force Awakens* : continues the original entry but makes major changes (Disney making Anakin Skywalker's legacy pointless/343 Industries trying to mimic Call of Duty and redisgning everything) *Halo 5 and Star wars The Last Jedi* : divides the community into two fanbases *Halo Infinite and Star wars Rise of Skywalker* : falls back on using nostalgia/familiar concepts in an attempt to redeem themselves

Ugh, that GDC clip made me nauseous. As soon as you started talking about games not compromising for a large audience I instantly thought of the SOULS series. Then sure enough, a few seconds later I see asylum demon on screen lol. Perfectly put man, I wish halo post-3 would have evolved the way the souls series evolved; by catering to the audience that was already there, maintaining its identity, and making an uncompromised game. Why have a lesser version of COD when you could have a good focused halo?

Welp, this aged well.

If there's one trend I do hope 343 is keeping tabs on, it's Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal. I just hope the idea might be sparked in there minds that a modern shooter can ditch all the "expected features" of every FPS that came out after Call of Duty: Modern Warfare and still be highly successful.

I really hope they dont follow the "battle royale" trend for the sake of battle royale. If they make battle royale their new flagship mode,I'll be nervous.

Bungie "we make trends" 343 "lets see what's popular today"

I wouldn't count on sprint being removed, but it would be a nice surprise. I know campaigns don't get much attention these days, but Halo really needs a good single-player experience to help stand above its competition

This video aged like fine wine 👌🍷

This seems like a good counter to Ekharts Ladders video on battle royale and glad you brought up these points. I don't see halo needing trends and glad you put that into a solid argument. Hopefully, 343 has listened enough to have learned by now...

Halo has always been arana shooter, where all players start out evenly to fight one another for better weapons and map control, with some vehicles for the more open bigger maps. That's what made halo fun and stand out from all the other shooters at the time. Nice video.

I really hope someone from 343i watches this video. Great video Favyn.

Aaannnddd, halo has followed all the trends again in infinite

Best example is Counter-strike. It is unique in its mechanics and hasn't changed them in 20 years. And people go to cs because it offers something that other shooters don't. You don't see cs needing to add sprinting and sliding do ya?

Always stumps me that you're not more popular. Your insight and ideas are exactly what Halo needs right now.

Choosing what to put in your game is like choosing tags for your RU-vid video. If you just use all of the most popular tags, then you will only get crumbs of the viewer-base due to sharing the tag with hundreds of other videos. But if you use a good tag that isn't as popular and trending, you aren't sharing that tag with nearly as many people. It's like deciding whether you want a crumb of a much larger cookie, or a smaller yet whole cookie all to yourself. That's the way the cookie crumbles. If your game doesn't have all of these mechanics that have become expected from modern FPS titles, then sure, you'll miss out on gripping a that audience that'll leave your game in 2 weeks anyways, but you'll attract a good majority of another audience that don't feel like they've been being catered to. So your game will be almost all they have to satisfy their preferences. Halo was the king of its own demographic, and then it shafted that demographic only for table scraps of other audiences.

That GDC clip made me shake with anger I can't believe this shit.

Halo Infinite needs to have its own soul and direction that is about delivering an unique experience that is true to Halo's roots. If 343 manages to deliver that in combination with a complete content packed launch product than they already have a successful launch product. A complete launch product that is expanded through monthly new free content updates is ALWAYS going to perform better and be liked more than a game that launches as barebones as Halo 5 and takes over a year to be a complete and content packed product. So far, Halo Infinite is bringing the soul of Halo in terms of the art direction. It's good to hear they are also bringing back a Spartan Customization system inspired by Reach. Let's hope this positive trend continues.

Doom Eternal is a good example of success while sticking to it's roots.

2:03 R.I.P. Crouch walking to disapear from the radar Halo 5 is too fast paced to crouch walk anymore and the maps don't provide adequate sneaky areas

This video is an eye opener, I had fallen away from Halo over the past couple years. And Doom eternal spoiled me in terms of intense fun fps gameplay, and I was blindly wishing some of its Elements would find it's way to Halo, and with the demo for halo Infinite, my wishes did come true and I'm excited for the game. But on the other hand, as a current student in game design and trying to gather my thoughts and ideas on potential projects I want to make, I find myself looking back and thinking on the original Halo trilogy, and making an fps game inspired by it, the focus on sandbox Elements and map design. But I have my own ideas to try and give it a vision and identity of its own. Rewatching these videos really put a lot of things into perspective for me. Thank you for challenging my current perspective and showing me a new one. I'm hopeful to see more analysis from you in the future Favyn.

This is a really good opinion piece. Thanks to Chris Ray Gun for the recommendation.

Halo CE - 5.5 Million. Halo 2 - 8 Million. Halo 3 - 14.5 Million. Halo Reach - 9.5 Million Halo 4 - 9 Million Halo 5 - ~6 Million Halo was in tremendous growth until the release of Halo Reach. Halo started its downfall the moment it took features from other games. (Source: VGcharts) I can’t believe this is even an argument.

9:20 This is basically what happened with Demon Souls. Demon Souls was a massive failure on launch. It took years for it's core group to 'form' and begin to attract other players with word of mouth.

Titanfall 2 is one of my favourite shooters of all time. If you were to ask anybody what they would want from one of the big fps games that come out every year, titanfall 2 had it. An amazing single player experience, in depth fast paced multiplayer with lots of modes, all dlc was free, micro transactions where all cosmetic and incredibly consumer friendly, a low skill floor where new players could still contribute and feel good by killing grunts and working towards their titan each match without feeling frustrated and a insanely high skill ceiling for players who enjoy depth and mechanics. Yet despite all that and despite being pretty far from a “generic” first person shooter, it was completely squashed by battlefield 1 coming out a week earlier. Because despite the fact that I think titanfall 2 is the better game, you just can’t beat these yearly franchise shooters at their own game.

Another great video Favyn. Been playing lots of H2 these past two nights and having a blast. The Classic formula offers an experience unmatched by any other game. Its simple, addictive and fun. If 343i doesn't try to take Halo back to its roots with Infinite I really hope someone gives a green light to make a multiplayer only game with the Classic formula. 12 new maps, a bunch of remastered maps, Forge, Custom Games and then add content to it every few months as a new season. Id be interested to see how a game like that would fare in the market.

I enjoy Halo 5’s multiplayer but it just doesn’t feel like Halo to me

I feel like Halo 2: Anniversary on PC will be 343i’s litmus test for this. It’s a classic Halo playing game, but has no nostalgia attached to it, so if players start playing it a lot it’ll prove that a classic playing Halo can attract players without any prior experiences muddying the waters with nostalgia

If this is a direct response to Eckhart Ladder’s video “Why Halo NEEDS a Battle Royal Gamemode”, then I APPLAUD you.

From trendsetter to trend chaser. Halo needs to evolve while maintaining the core semblances of what made the franchise the iconic progenitor of the FPS genre that it was in the first place. This is possible. We are seeing iconic franchises being rebooted in floods *(God of War, Final Fantasy VII, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare)* all the time and they are reimagining themselves expertly. There’s really no excuse for Halo to not be able to do the same thing.

To add on your siege example, When Siege first came out the game was a FLOP for the majority of its first year you could say it was dead but then something happened Ubisoft started fixing it from the ground up to make what we have now pretty amazing turnaround

While I would love to believe that 343i would ignore trends and make a classic halo game, or even just focus on making something cool. The fact that they replaced reach's credit based with of freaking battle pass has dashed all my hopes.

I’ve always appreciated the time when games like battlefield, Call of Duty, Halo, etc. had there unique gaming experiences. Battle field had huge maps, vehicles, and destructible environments; CoD had small maps, fast paced gameplay, and fun kill streaks; and Halo had slower paced arena gameplay matched with an unforgettable story and fun enemies. I loved each franchise for their own unique take on the FPS genre rather than today where every shooter must have squad operators with different abilities or a battle royal mode. While I do enjoy the newer trends I’m really starting to miss the variety we had before. I really hope halo infinite goes back to the roots of classic halo gameplay rather than repackaging CoD/Battle Royal with Spartans.

I agree. You can tell all the advanced mobility from Halo 5 was riding the wave of wallrunning futuristic CODs/Titanfall at the time, and only 5 years later it feels super dated

Such an amazingly quotable video 3:42 - Following a trend means imitating something that is established 4:55 - Halo already _was_ distinct. [Classic Halo] already stood out, it was already loved, and successful and unique. 6:00 - The best chance you have of bringing in new players and expanding an audience would be to give them something they don't already have. 6:53 - If you attempt to appeal to the majority, you become one of dozens of games they can choose between, and [ ] it's no easy feat to make them choose you. 7:23 - "Classic" Halo never failed! It changed at its peak. 7:42 - Those ten people who loved it aren't going anywhere, and unfortunately, we have a gaming industry that would prefer the opposite. 8:20 - [F]ocus groups only give you surface-level feedback. (Market research is bullshit; you need to have experienced experts on your team!) 9:00 - Some of the best, most influential games of this generation would most likely perform _horribly_ in a focus group. 12:34 - Halo [is] not only [ ] unique, but it _is_ accessible! (Why the hell did they try to make it more accessible?) 13:49 - If you're following trends, yeah, you may not be the same as the previous Halo game, but now you're just the same as everything else. 13:57 - I really think Halo would honestly stand out more if it was more like itself. (You're goddamn right.) One note about 8:20 - I saw a video a while back from BDobbins about trends in the video game industry, and he referenced a case study from one of the devs of the Red Faction franchise. Basically what happened is that all of the volunteers they got for the case study were Call of Duty players, and every single one of them complained that the game wasn't like Call of Duty. 'I get tons of kills in Call of Duty, but I can't kill anything in this game. The problem must not be me, it must be the game. Make it more like Call of Duty.' Did you know about this case study? Because I think you'd be interested in reading about it if you hadn't already.

Man you always nail it. I hold all the same opinions on things Halo as you except you put a lot more thought and explanation into them than I ever care to.

Well I think it is sure that after gameplay reveal it will just... fail. Nothing to add

"The modern audience" does not exist.

I recently played Halo 2 Anniversary Multiplayer on PC. Funny enough, even with some updating, it shows that the old old formula still holds up in the modern age. It was nice having the golden triangle back (guns, grenades, melee) for a modern era, and working beautifully. This is what 343i should have done. I'm still mad at Josh Holmes for making a classic Halo experience that had positive feedback (which is funny when you talked about focus groups), then threw it out for the Halo 4's CoD BS! What could have been...

I really hope there is someone at 343 watching this rn.

Favyn I know right, Halo would actually be on top of the FPS market right now if it had non of those sprint and advance movement mechanics. It would literally be one of a kind and that would be great for fans(because we don’t get pissed at things not Halo), Microsoft(because Halo would offer a one of a kind experience that only they provide and that would make them a shit ton more money) and gaming in general (to tell people trends don’t make quality and uniqueness)

Seems that halo was at the forefront of fps where they made all of the trends but now people either want them to 'follow current trends' or 'stick to old formula'. Both methods are dumb because they will make a game that is the same as what is already out. What they should be doing is making a innovative halo game with lots of new and interesting ideas. I mean halo 2 only ended up being great because they lied at e3 and had to entirely remake the game pushing for it to live up to lofty expectations. Rather than settle for what could be made they were pushed to try and achieve the seemingly impossible. In the end they succeeded and you don't see anything like that anymore.

If the trends they want to follow are in esports, then they are correct. Classic Halo would not survive in the modern esports arena. Thats the problem. They are focused on keeping up with the esports market, not maintaining the artistic integrity of the franchise.

God this argument 343/Sprint fans use it infuriates me so damn much. It strips the identity of what it is just so it can follow other games. Imagine if people said the Pokemon TCG should do X/X stats because Yugioh and Magic do this. Pokemon is it's own TCG and has their own system that works for them with a simple HP health of the Pokemon. Similarly Halo was designed as an Arena Shooter so there was no sprint involved. Just because some shooters like Call of Duty and others have it doesn't mean it should. The no sprint Arena Shooter gameplay Halo was known for was equal, fair, and efficient for combat. You are always capable of shooting and get to ledges while doing so. And since everyone is at the same speed everyone has equal chance at power weapons or weapons on the map.

Crouch jumping is my advanced movement

I don’t call ‘classic halo’ ‘classic’ or old school or whatever I call it halo, halos 4 and 5 aren’t halo, insert 343 apologists saying this or that, they’re wrong, halos 4 and 5 are call of duty, in this case black ops 2 and 3, I implore everyone else to at the very least detest the idea that halo is ‘classic’, it’s not, halo is halo, that is halos not cod copycats Halo 4 and 5 are cod copycats

343i: Damn, I am going to ignore all of this and have a disastrous game launch.

“We need to alter our insanely popular series and make it almost completely unrecognizable to anyone who has a passing understanding of what it is. That’ll get people on board.” I don’t think a series should try to appeal to newcomers by ditching what made it special in the first place. This has been shown throughout history that losing your series identity does you no favors.

Halo is ruined and it’s quite sad seeing the turn it took. Halo 2 and 3 were amazing days now kids that are playing halo are just playing another cod. Why doesn’t this video have more views because it’s spot on!

Good vid, I can simply sum up my views like this. "If I want to play cod, i'll play cod. When I play halo, I want to play halo".

People who say classic halo is "slow" don't realize that the base movement speed is faster than the games they want halo to emulate. You were sprinting the whole time and you didn't have to stop shooting to do so. Halo feels slow because the FOV is so narrow.

This was probably your best video. Couldn't agree more, but I have a sad hunch that our wishes will not come true.

I and many of my friends are proof that not all zoomers are too close minded to play halo and games lind

I was on the Splitgate Arena Warfare reddit, and one of the developers commented on a post asking for sliding to be added to the game. They said: "There will not be sliding introduced to this game. There is enough movement as it is, and it simply adds in a uncompetitive factor to a game attempting to be as competitive as possible." I hope 343 have the same level of devotion to Halo Infinite, and understanding of the direction which they want to take with it.

Halo conforming to current FPS trends to regain popularity is like Taco Bell expecting to become the most successful fast food chain by throwing out all their unique menu items and only serving burgers, fries, nuggets, etc. and expecting people to ditch McDonald's, Wendy's, and Burger King for them.

My life story as proof My Best friends who are still my best friends introduced me to H2 in 2004 I was a Nintendo and PS2 kid but I fell in love with Halo instantly it wasn't like anything I played up to that point a few months before Halo 3 on my birthday my parents bought me a 360 and the first 2 halo games then shortly after i convinced them to upgrade to high speed internet so I could get xbl and my best friends and a few other neighborhood friends we hungout with soon followed 2007 was my freshmen year in HS Literally everyone I knew or talked to at school played Halo 3 I knew i could come home and see dozens of my xbl friends playing Halo 3 that wasn't just in 2007 that was everyday for the next three years so my whole high-school career. I will never forget when the same best friends and the other friends in the neighborhood came to watch me play Halo Reach for the first time they were watching and they say and I quote "you can sprint in Halo now? now it's like COD" (yes I vividly remember that day) bc after that day I could feel that things were different sure they bought Halo Reach but it wasn't the same. Not every college gamer I talked to liked Halo Reach. After Halo 4 that was it for my friends in 2015 they switched to PS4 and when they play games it's either fortnite or surprise surprise whatever the newest COD is Im sorry but the fact most people in our community can't wrap their head around the FACT that our franchise started to lose traction when it started to FOLLOW TRENDS honestly upsets me and makes me sick it really does I have watched a generation of gamers lose interest in Halo and people want to make excuses about the competition Halo 3 had (or lack there of according to them) all of the people I met through H5 and say H5 is better left for different games a few years ago and aren't 152 here I am someone who prefers classic and am now almost 152 this makes me upset Favyn

You know what else is missing from most games these days? Single player and offline content. I don't want to only sweaty or only tryhard. I play games to have a good time, not get rekt or "get gud." I couldn't care less about my skill in a fictional amalgamation of pixels on the screen.

Mythic Arena from Halo 5 seems like the best way to go IMO.

Doom 2016’s movement and gunplay would make a great halo mp

I don’t know why I keep watching these vids it just bums me out to know 343 wont be getting any of my money cuz they for sure will fuck this up

Doom eternal definitely proves that you dont need to follow the grain to be successful. 343i this time definitely are looking at the group of people that deeply care about the game's success this time and not a bunch of random "gamers".

I think the best evidence we will have is the halo MCC on PC. If more people play Halo 1-3 compared to reach/4 then that is pretty good evidence towards what people want.

This is why crysis 1 was loved and why crysis 2 killed the franchise for quite some time. Or how arma beat out operation flashpoint. Arma was inaccessible as it was a hardcore military simulation shooter that required high end PCs for good performance. Operation flashpoint tried to dumb-down arma into an AAA console game that was easier to play and lacked the freedom and depth to combat, all to just cater to COD fans, who already had a game for that: COD. Arma had a small community back then due to it's extremely hardcore militaristic gameplay, but due to it following it's vision, the Arma community is now huge. Lets compare two more similar franchises: Tom Clancy's R6, and Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon. Favyn already proved that R6S is good by being unique as a hardcore, unforgiving, competitive tactical shooter. Ghost recon on the other hand, went from an unforgiving singleplayer squad-based FPS strategy game with many tactical and hardcore elements, to now, an RPG-based thrid person shooter filled with loot boxes where there is literally no need for squad mechanics, enemy AI are stupid and clueless as hell, and all the weapons, attachments, strategies, and classes are inconsequential. Ghost Recon today is an over-the-top stealth action third person shooter with gimmicky RPG elements. It's also a dead game.

This video is more relevant now, than ever before. Unfortunately, my all time fave series has already failed, due to following trends. Should have been focusing on the original formula that made people fall in love with it in the first place. Aggressive micro transactions have ruined modern gaming for me, personally. Takes away the grind & overall originality. I’ll say it now, and I’ll continue to say it, Reach should have been the last Halo game. Better to hang up the cape while you’re still on top, than hop on trends & lose respect. You can still continue making games once you’re no longer on top, as long as you stay true to the key principles & themes that made a series unique. Thank you for this content. It’s great to see like minded people in the Halo community. 🙌

After MCC's success, if 343 decides to follow trends with Halo Infinite instead of having a classic feel, I will lose all respect for them because they are clearly incompetent to handle a legendary series like Halo.

HaloCE was the first First Person Shooter I played and I can not get over it even the two years I've played.

"Classic Halo wouldn't survive" Laughs in Doom Eternal and Halo Online. I myself love Halo 5 as an Arena shooter like I do with Quake, But I hate it as a Halo game.

So, the short version of this video: If your game doesn't add anything unique thing into the gamplay, people won't play it, because other games have those thing too. Make a unique game, and players will like it for being different.

I'm so happy you brought up R6: Siege because I often call it the "Halo 3" of my adult life. There's nothing else like it, and it's the only game that rivals my Halo days in terms of time played (well, aside from CoD4/MW2).

„Classic Halo wouldn‘t survive ?“ Strongly disagree.

I appreciate the argument but honestly I disagree. I've been playing halo since halo ce and while I love all of the bungie games I never liked how slow and clunky the movement was. It wasn't until halo reach came out that I felt like an actual spartan in the games. I really don't think halo 5's movement is the problem. I think it was the presentation of halo 4 and 5 that were the biggest issue. Halo 4 came out and completely changed the art direction rewrote a lot of lore and created one of the most unbalanced multiplayer systems in gaming. Halo 5 did almost the same thing but in the opposite direction they created one of the worst halo campaigns ever by completely ruining character arcs and set up plot details and added one of the most overly monotised and paytowin systems in first person gameing. Most people I've talked to liked halo 5's balanced multiplayer gameplay in the arena modes. I think if we were to compromise I'd say bump up the base movespeed remove sprint but keep the clambering and thrusters giving Spartans a faster more aggressive moveset but still balanced closer to original halo.. I personally have no problems with the sprint and dodge thruster ability. But if I had to make a change that's what I'd pick. I really just want a good story and fun sandbox multiplayer that I was used to in halo

Completely agree. It'll fail 100% if it follows trends. Might have another Halo 4 experience where 3 months into the game people already are jumping onto other games and not coming back. A lot of people know a classic Halo game is the right move. Unfortunately it seems the higher ups at 343 don't understand that. They should of been innovating classic style Halo from the beginning without completely breaking the true original formula of gameplay. I don't mind having advanced mobility features in the game as options for customs or other game modes but the main game should be built around classic Halo.

They followed the worst trends

My quickfire ideas: (NOTE: I speak for someone who played the old Halos. The last Halo I played was Halo4 and it did not live up to its name.) 1. No chosen "class" abilities like Sprint, Jetpack, Dropshield etc - Powerups like Overshield, Regenerator, Power Drain, Bubble Shield etc are found on the map. Essentially the same system as H3. 2. No default sprint button, so have one constant movement speed and up it by 20-40%(guesstimation) from what it was in Halo3 (This is to combat the fact that people have much better aim and reflexes these days, so that you can use clever movement/bobbing&weaving to avoid hits.) 3. Choose to spawn in with any simple weapon you want; Assault Rifle, Battle Rifle, DMR, etc. POWER WEAPONS on the other hand, need to be picked up.

I feel like a great way to make sense of the argument for classic Halo gameplay to people who assume you want something to just stay the same way forever is to compare it to Pokemon. Stay with me. Halo is a franchise that changed it's entire foundation to become something nigh unrecognisable. Pokemon is a franchise that stubbornly refuses to evolve and adopt new ways to play with its core formula. Pokemon fans tend to want a better story, perhaps even an overarching franchise story, more game modes, custom game modes, more interesting designs for the Pokemon, for Gamefreak to actually bother to take advantage of next gen technology rather than just porting DS tech onto the Switch with a tiny graphical increase, a more accessible way to acquire Pokemon viable to use online without literally hundreds of hours of boring grind, etc etc. No one actually wants Pokemon to get rid of its core formula, which is learning the strengths and weaknesses of different pokemon and learning the mechanics of like a thousand different moves, and in the online scenario, learning the stats of nearly a thousand different creatures in order to create a strategy that will lead to victory, all the while being on a grand adventure discovering a new world with interesting inhabitants. So apply this to Halo. Keep the core formula, but bring in features that are external to the core formula to play with it in new and interesting ways. So more vehicles, more powerups, new map designs, new game modes. Take the sticky detonator that was introduced in Halo 4. There had not been a weapon that behaved like it previously, and so without changing the fundamental design of Halo they helped diversify the experience.

Whats wrong with wanting more of the same when what 'same' means is the greatest game of all time... Imitation is not innovation Stop fixing what isn't broken

Halo sets trends not follows them

343: What is Halo? Me: It's a game who's formula is X 343: X wouldn't work now, it should be Y Me: Then it wouldn't be Halo 343: We'll call it Halo, present it as Halo Me: Why not just properly label and present it as a different IP at that point? 343: [autistic screeching]

Halo died the minute Bungie was replaced by 343.

I’m going to play devil’s advocate here as somebody who’s been a fan of all the games in the series and has been playing since before Halo 2 came out. I take issue with the idea that there is no reason to consider contemporary mechanics just because “everybody else is already doing it.” This point of view seems to ignore consideration of WHY these mechanics became popular in the first place, because they obviously weren’t that from the get-go, and so the initial basis for them becoming popular wasn’t that it was “what everyone is familiar with,” it was what they added to the gameplay experience. I don’t see many of the “classic Halo advocates” making any or much effort to analyze this, hence a wholesale rejection of ALL newer contemporary mechanics, which is where those of you who believe that way lose me. More consideration ought to be given to the specific elements and whether they work for Halo rather than this - to my perspective - outright dismissal of those newer elements by such fans. Clamber is a perfect example of this. I understand the “skill” argument of crouch jumping to a certain extent, but ultimately the functional utility of that was to reach higher areas and enable new opportunities in movement paths not offered through conventional moving and jumping. Clamber functionally serves the same purpose. Crouch jumping may take skill to some extent, but the greatest extent of skill difference being expressed was always more about accuracy, general positioning and positioning relative to teammates, timing and other tactics. I didn’t find anything about the change to clamber to functionally change how skill difference between players was expressed: those not skilled enough to be utilizing crouch jumping are now the same type of players I see not utilizing clamber at all or very often, and also still aren’t more accurate at shooting and such so it doesn’t feel like it has leveled the playing field for them at all in terms of ability to win. This makes sense, because it’s enabling universal easier map traversal, so for every new player who finds clamber easier, you have a veteran who can also do that, making the true differentiating factor those other skill elements that it was always more about in my experience anyway. And if we are looking bigger picture when it comes to this mechanic, considering Bungie’s own inclusion of it in Destiny it seems likely that had they retained the reigns on Halo we would have gotten precisely this anyway. Given the hostility people have had for someone new handling the franchise on a fundamental level, though, something tells me had Bungie been the ones to introduce this exact same feature into the franchise themselves, it would’ve been welcomed more than it has been just because 343 did it instead. A lot of the argument of this video seems to rest on the notion that because players can experience these contemporary mechanics elsewhere, nothing is gained by their inclusion in Halo. I also have to dispute this, because it seems to assume that because players are offered these mechanics elsewhere, they are already playing those games also and content with that. In my experience, this is factually untrue. I have multiple friends for who Halo is the only or next to only FPS series they are into, and so for them, these mechanics are a newer experience for them because they aren’t interested in those other games, and further because they are such Halo fans, they would rather take a chance on Halo’s version of them - trusting they’ll be best done there - than try out anybody else’s version of them. It isn’t as simple as “those mechanics are cool for their own sake so they’re content to go where they can get them.” They want the feel of Halo gameplay with newer mechanics that work well for a shooter when it makes sense to, not just any series’ gameplay. Saying people who would enjoy that are already getting that elsewhere then is, like I said, factually untrue. While I like more different shooters than most of my friends, I generally feel the same, and it stands to reason if I know multiple people who feel that way, there are a lot of other Halo fans out there who do, too. I agree 100% that Halo needs to be about innovation rather than trend adoption, and I feel strongly this needs to be a driving force behind Infinite. That granted, I also don’t think wholesale rejection of all newer shooter gameplay conventions simply because Halo didn’t create them (the way classic Halo gameplay advocates seem to feel) does anything to make the franchise’s gameplay better. What makes sense, and what is realistically what we’re going to get, is having a thoughtful fusion of a classic core to the gameplay, newer gameplay conventions where sensible and new innovations by this series itself that make sense for the series. Expecting anything else is asking to be disappointed, and expecting failure if it doesn’t follow the purely classic approach advocated here is to be overly cynical about the series in my opinion. That’s my two cents, take it as you will. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Leave it to favyn to read everyone's minds and compress our collective thoughts into a comprehensive video.

I feel ya but the few things I really want from halo is the brutshot and duel weilding back in the game

I know for a fact that classic Halo games can survive today. Not only that, but they are thriving, right now, on Halo MCC on PC. We don't yet have access to Halo 4, but the community is absolutely buzzing with the release of Halo 2 yesterday.

Sorry for long comment but I needed to vent some of my frustrations I really hope this video gets to 343 somehow and changes the way they think about their games This video literally encapsulated all of my thoughts and frustrations my group of friends even my brother only play games like cod battlefield apex which I have no problem with those games I even play them time to time but when I try to get them to play halo they usually just laugh and say something along the lines of "imagine being stuck on games from 2007" or "why do you like old games so much" they never even gave halo a true shot my friends played halo 4 for a week and stopped most likely because of what you said in this video because it was following trends of games they had already played my brother has played every halo a little and he says to me when I try to get him to play "halo has been out since 2001 the game is old and boring now let's go play COD"

Well, we now know that Halo will not stop chasing trends. But instead of chasing battle royale and implementing a mode that could make custom games and Forge even more fun, they decided to make yet another open world adventure. You know what would actually be refreshing in this day and age? A linear level-based shooter with no mobility options inherent to the player, no forced cinematic moments that yank the controls away from the player, and a wide open sandbox that creates cool gameplay moments just by interacting with itself. You know, everything Halo was before 343 started making it like every other shooter.

Will fail for nostalgic fans, they call themselves "true halo fans" LOL

I think staying on top of genre trends isn't a good focus for 343, but being laser focused on the trends of the halo playerbase and keep in your ginger on the pulse of the halo community will be key. Give us a good sandbox and creation tools and then promote popular or promising content and constantly be offering new features and alternate experiences. Allow the game to be an engine or sandbox that can breed different gameplay experiences. Look at Gmod. It works not because it's an amazing game with good graphics or a really innovative sandbox, it works because people make content for it that people enjoy and if they don't enjoy it, it's not played. If you give us a good halo game with a system that promotes the community creating more content for it, then it will have infinite (pun intended) replayability. Halo 5s main appeal for me and my friends is the forge and custom games experience. That feature is the only reason anyone I know still plays that game.

It's really telling that we haven't even seen gameplay for Infinite and it's supposed to launch this year. Still have no idea what it's going to play like. I'm well past the point of having faith in 343 to make a good game, but even if it was a really subpar Halo game, as long as it played like classic Halo, I'd buy it.

"Tell me if you have heard this one before: classic halo wouldn't survive in todays market" Nope, literally never heard that.

I think a huge reason why halo gameplay is so fun and so fun to watch is because your gun is always up. You are always ready for battle instead of everyone sprinting and jumping around without having the use of their guns

Are there people who actually want to play Halo with sprint removed? Y’all want just the Magnum, Assault rifle, shotgun & sniper to just be in the game as well?