I think the biggest thing is that with an indie developer they need to have one hit game to be set for LIFE while an indie promotion needs to be continously succesful and even if they grow steadily they will eventually plateau or get hovered up by the big promotion. When I buy Stardew Valley Concerned Ape has his money and if i dont play it for a year that doesnt matter. If i go to Progress for 3 months and then dont for a year that actually has a financial impact. A lot of UK indies are a perfect example of this
Excellent closing section to this video. One thing I've felt in wrestling, but especially at smaller shows, is how much we fans contribute to the event. If 10 people in a room of 50 act excited for a babyface it helps so much. Or if 10 people boo the heel when they come out. And as a fan you get a different feeling from the experience than being even at a "better" show like a Royal Rumble. If you can, do both.
It really is about accessibility. As a non US resident, I can buy all games from an online platform wherever I am in the world. I can't watch indy wrestling with the same ease and when I do, it often doesn't generate money for the promotion itself. Much like games, every time WWF/E got complacent, some other promotion would rise up to offer an alternative and get a slice of the pie. It just came down to whether you just had to change the channel to another major station (WCW, AEW), a smaller channel (ECW, TNA), something else (Netflix for Lucha Underground) or watch for free on RU-vid. Different broadcasters means a different size of audience and different levels of revenue.
Your original statement had to do with accessibility alone. Which is not a problem as stated since RU-vid is accessible. Financially viable is a different statement. But even with that, YT is passive income and potentially does not cost them anything extra. It's upward potential with no downside
Fite used to have a giant library of indie wrestling prior to covid. Championship wrestling from hollywood, Best of the West, pcw ultra and a bunch from the midwest and south. The issue is quality of production and consistency of episodes. Covid changed all of that
I live in Deadlock Pro's home territory and although I haven't made it to a show just yet, I can tell you they're doing well. Chris Danger works with them, WWE just signed Jay Malachi from them, and they had a No DQ match with Masato Tanaka and Colby Corino that I'm highly upset I missed. Great to see that the tide is somewhat rising for all in this year of pro wrestling.
Alright Dave, challenge accepted..i tend to spend all my wrestling time watching old school stuff but i'm going to try some indy stuff too (on youtube of course, not going outside unless i have to)
DPW is probably my favorite indy company now but a lack of matches on youtube and a paywall for their shows definitely prevents them from getting watchers who didnt already know them from their pod
Philippines does have a Local Promotion that started with VOD content and is now shown in a TV channel. It's called Manila Wrestling Federation. Their recent show was even able to get a joint venture with Kyushu Pro Wrestling and Tajiri which would be airing within the next few weeks from now.
Unlike a big wrestling promotion like WWE. I think poor working conditions at triple a gaming companies make it really hard to attract talent who’s not literally dead broke. Like imagine if every wrestler in WWE would just be working their hardest with the end goal of going independent. I’m pretty sure that’s what it’s like to be a game dev Great video though Dave. Always refreshing to talk about something apart from “bO dALlaS aNd tHe wYaTt 6ix?!?!?!”
Well I'm not sure if it is because I have no idea what you're trying to say. Who's randy? Stop watching wrestling and playing video games and concentrate more in school
I do agree with the "resources" part. The home computing boom of the 80s and 90s gave a rise to hobbyist and amateur programmers learning how to "homebrew" their favorite video games. That, and plenty of schools and colleges opened up courses teaching programmers with a passion for gaming ways to get a job in the gaming business. You may not get a job in the field, but there are people willing to help you, and most importantly, take your money. While it is much easier to find a wrestling school in 2024 (granted IMO it's an experience where as a walk-on, you show up to the Boston Red Sox and ask to be the starting shortstop), try walking into a local Planet Fitness, "McDojo", or tell your mental health therapist you "want to be a pro wrestler", and watch the reaction that gets. I'm sure they will not tell you not to do it, but they are, at best, gonna tell you that is a very lofty and crazy goal, and you probably should examine your life choices up to this point.
Before watching the video. Gaming in general is a juggernaut right now, wrestling is niche. It’s harder for a niche of a niche to catch on. Comics might be the better comparison, we have independent comic creators making more money than your average Marvel/DC employee.
Indie game publishers have marketing budgets that can get them featured on virtual stores and hardware manufacturer (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo) marketing presentations. Indie wrestling companies have no such budget for the same exposure. My favorite indie (or as I call it, smaller) promotion is GCW, Game Changer Wrestling, and i went to my first GCW show when a friend of mine, who would go to AEW shows with me, who had been going to GCW for awhile asked if I wanted to go to one of GCW's New Years Eve shows with him. I went, had a great time and have been following the company and their top wrestlers ever since. If I hadn't had that friend invite me to go see GCW, I wouldn't care about it at all. I wouldn't see a GCW ad on WWE or AEW TV and all I knew about the company is that Joey Janela and Nick Gage were big stars there, now I know and care about the company so much more. In order for "independent" wrestling to grow, people need to care enough about it to seek it out, and not enough WWE/AEW watchers care.
I do agree that advertising is a major part of the equation today. As an indy show's poster in a barber shop isn't drawing anyone. However, in the early days of the indy gaming movement, they didn't have as such. And some indy promotions do have advertising budgets. But yes, I do think that stepping up their commercial game would help
Call me crazy, but I believe that the indie wrestling may need to work a relationship with Indie Music and Indie Fashion as a trio to create its own universe or community of E-commerce.
Indie Wrestling Promotions need to get some Indie Games made with their branding and rosters in them to get more attention and give us more games to play. OVW is doing so by being featured in the upcoming Ultra Pro Wrestling.
The biggest issue is quality of production from a camera quality and sound quality aspect. A lot of indie companies film then add commentary afterwards and it doesn’t sound great. Videos quality wise the barrier to entry is a lot easier but the knowledge of how to use the equipment isn’t there yet. MLW struggles with it, PCW ultra is one company that did indie wrestling to a high production.
@@DaveKnowsWrestling the video and sound quality make the product seem cheap. So the eyeballs that the product does get doesn’t necessarily come back. Without returning viewers there is no growth because then you have a revolving door of consumers. You have to keep behinds in the seats and presentation is a big part of it. The other reason is WWE viewers only really want to watch the WWE product. There is a very small audience of hardcore wrestling fans that want to consume over 10 plus hours a week of wrestling. WWE already gives you 7hrs of product a week, add in AEW and you are at 10, take in ppvs and ple and you are at like almost 15hrs of wrestling on a heavy week. I have tried to watch a bunch of indie content when I was doing a podcast and it is a full time commitment. Another and my last thought is the talent pool has greatly thinned out since AEW inception. If you look at the AEW roster from when AEW started then you see how much indie talent was removed from the scene. Yes guys could go work indie dates but why would you when you are risking injury. A lot of indie promotions weren’t able to fill the gap which in turn hurts the product they were posting online.
AEW really helped damage a thriving independent wrestling scene. Sure, WWE had a lot of signings too and WWE has extremely damaged the British independent wrestling scene, but WWE had a constant releasing cycle. Not long after AEW started WWE had a bit of a downsize. AEW however took many soon to be independent wrestling stars out of the scene in the states. I am not sure when it'll fully recover.
I think there’s so much Indy wrestling but so few Indy feds getting any attention, there’s no real variation that would make one stand out. Yes there’s a difference between GCW and TNA (I’m counting them, look at their numbers) but is there?
I'm in Toronto. There are two "Feds" here that I'm aware of. One is Luchador (demand Lucha) the other is Junction City Wrestling. The problem is the shows are too infrequent. You can't build a following with four shows a year.
Another parallel to consider is that there never really was the rise of the indies. Not without the fall of the mainstream. Whenever WWE stumbles, competition catches up, be it nWo/WCW in the 90s, ROH/TNA/the indys in the 200s or NJPW/AEW in the 2010s. Every-time those rise, WWE course corrects. They take what the competition does and replicates it, offering it to the world in a more easy access way. In that regard, WWE are more like Steam. Being the platform for indy games/wrestlers to be showcased, while taking a chunk of the revenue. In a way, WWE are part of the indy scene. The biggest indy, so why watch anything else? Unlike AAA gaming, which keeps itself distinct and deems itself 'too big too fail' and thus won't course correct. Indy gaming is still a separate avenue. They are the '90s AJPW, ECW, 2010's NJPW, Lucha Underground or 2019 AEW. Being cool and running unopposed while AAA gaming keeps inflating that industry bubble until it is set to burst. Indy gaming is on a boom period only because AAA gaming hasn't had its pipebomb moment yet.
Before I watch the video, I always felt "Indie Wrestling" is the minor leagues. You know, small time shows where fans can watch some of pro wrestling's hottest and quickly rising stars, and/or the place where you can watch old, washed up wrestlers trying to hang onto what is left of their fading career. Combine that with modern promoters at least having a bachelors degree, most likely an MBA, but still too many promoters trying to be the next Vince McMahon (with or without the alleged sexual acts and alleged human trafficking), while being a little bit nicer than the cigar chewing counterpart of the previous eras and "The Territories", and you got a recipe for disaster that is forever "Indie Wrestling". So while "money marks" come and go, pro wrestlers generally have a goal to eventually end up at "The Show". "The Show" is WWE, and while NJPW, AEW, CMLL, AAA, TNA, GCW, MLW, etc. are all nice places to end up, the goal at the end of the day for a pro wrestler is always going to be WWE (kind of like with MMA fighters and UFC, you can make a living elsewhere, but the casual fans, and even wrestlers bank accounts, anything not "The Show" ultimately ends up being a "Flea Market" brand). That's not saying there could be a company that eventually usurps WWE, but right now that's as much of a chance as an upstart football league in 2024 coming along and challenging the NFL, or a basketball league trying to be better than the NBA. Not impossible, especially with the need for new media content on the rise, but pretty much impossible (WWE and TKO would still have to do a lot to kill their business and become Roller Derby, more or less).
imo aew njpw tna roh etc are almost as equal to a hog. not budget wisebut. its all indie. if anything AEW is the only AA company while wwe is AAA and everyone else is just A. and also bad wrestling is bad wrestling. alot of indie stories are based off fans telling you and not from the presentation that is given. its why wcpw almost boomed. because it followed well. theres so much that can be improved with lil to no money needed to use. just use some tools they already own better. but easier said then done.
I think the better analysis would be comparing Wrestling, which is moalstly non-interactive (meaning that you don't directly get involved with the product in terms of the action as it's happening) would be the movie industry. We can play all day with semantics; but, when the arguments are all laid out, independent Wrestling ISN'T as popular as smarks like to think it is. It is a needed tool, just like independent films are needed for actors to get the rookie errors out of the way, but it's *NOT* popular in a way that many want it to be by design. People want stories and spectacle. They don't care about flips, head drops, and "workrate." It is, in many ways, the fans.
You want stories and spectacle? Go watch a movie. People go to wrestling shows to watch wrestling and hard hitting action. Not sitting around seeing a bunch of people using a ring doing soap opera theater. You clearly don't know anything about wrestling. Sports entertainment isn't wrestling.
Ohio Valley Wrestling is not an independent wrestling promotion, it is a developmental promotion with contacts with AEW, TNA, and formerly WWE. That isn't the same as Southern Tier Wrestling or Prowrestling Rampage which are actual indy promotions.
If you listened, I said OVW was a small promotion. I didn't say it was independent. I said that specifically because of people like you. Furthermore, as I gave the definitions, OVW does not have solely exclusive talent, so therefore they do operate with independent wrestlers and thus do count for the context of this video. No one likes a semantical stickler.
Because wrestling fans are more pro corporate. and will demand shitty thing that people in wrestling do and plus wrestling fan hate wrestling and inid wrestling is more focused on wrestling
