Ever since the writers wrote Spectacular Walter Hardy as Spectacular Uncle Ben’s killer and regret it only for Spectacular Peter to not forgive him (going against everything Sam Raimi was trying to show in Spider-Man 3 when he wrote his version of Sandman as Uncle Ben’s true killer and felt guilty about it and Raimi Peter forgave him honoring his Uncle Ben’s last wish) the only reason I would have ever wanted to write a Season 3 would be to write Spectacular Uncle Ben not be who Spectacular Peter thought he was and turn out like the Uncle Ben from Charlie Parker’s world. But then I realized that would have made me no better than the fans are. But of course Spectacular Peter should be banished from ever visiting his version of Uncle Ben’s grave and banishing him from ever visiting his version of Uncle Ben’s grave is clearly the right thing to do.
@@sodium285Yea,i can get pretty protective of this show but i understand people have different tastes,like that’s ok,i even like Spider-Man 3 Venom even though a lot of people don’t.
@@CrocsFortress exactly 💯. Plus, I'll admit that Spider-Man 3 was actually my favourite Spider-Man Movie as a kid. As an adult, I recognise it has its issues and I share some of them but I still like it. 👍
Again i'm aware that Liz grew as a person and that she was one of the few stronger characters in the show but at the same time the bad still outweighed the good the only reason Pete and Liz were together at all is cause she wouldn't let Pete tell Gwen that she's the one twice in the first two episodes of S2 and when Gwen tells Liz that she and Pete make a great couple Liz is now the spiteful one saying "Yeah we do" that was the entire basis for that relationship she didn't want Pete and Gwen together at all. It's why i'm more forgiving of Pete ditching Liz on Valentine's Day she already had that spiteful jealously even before she and Pete were together that and she had done something similar when she calls Pete at the hospital during Flash's surgery only for Pete to discover Liz didn't need him after all. On top of that shortly before Pete breaks up with Liz she believes he would've seen the play if it was Gwen instead of Liz and Pete replies that even if Aunt May was in the play he would've missed it if anything this is why i don't feel sorry for Liz when Pete breaks up with her and even when he's doing it he admits that he's been a terrible boyfriend and Liz deserves someone better. Plus with Eddie the bond was not as strong like it was in the Ultimate Comics (which was the reason Spectacular made Pete and Eddie childhood friends) three episodes in and Eddie already hates Pete (and i know the reasons but the bond wasn't as strong as it should've been) and their parents influence is minimal at best especially as the symbiote is still from space rather than being created by them to cure cancer so we don't even know the reason behind the plane crash that killed them except to attend a conference together. And finally there's MJ the only thing she has as a character is that she won't be a consolation prize or replacement girl which was also true of 94 MJ who didn't date Pete until S4 or 5 (regardless of it being a clone it was still MJ) yet she was more of a character than she ever was in Spectacular i keep hearing that MJ's abusive past was revealed in Spectacular but the only Spidey media that ever showed it was Spider-Man TAS and the Spider-Man Trilogy in Spectacular for the most part MJ had only shallow things to work with as a character and even after Mark goes to jail despite MJ saying that she has real feelings for him Liz is more emotionally devastated by it than MJ.
Another reason why I don’t like Spectacular is after this version Walter Hardy expresses his guilt over his world’s Uncle Ben, Spectacular Peter doesn’t forgive him and it went against everything Sam Raimi was trying to show in Spider-Man 3 (with having Sandman be reviled as Uncle Ben’s killer and Peter forgives him in the end and Harry forgiving Peter after learning that Peter didn’t kill his dad). Personally Spectacular Peter should be banished from visiting his version of Uncle Ben’s grave because of what happened in the Vault during Opening Night.
You know in the 1994 cartoon MJ did the exact same thing but it was cause she actually saw Harry as more than a friend same with Peter when the Green Goblin first arrives and MJ thinks Harry has some part with it and Peter to show how this was done better wonders why he always has to play matchmaker between MJ and Harry but realizes he's still his friend and is innocent until proven guilty and when MJ finally dumps Harry she gets no pleasure in doing it Peter in 94 actually processes things for the long term that gives him a better understanding of things. He does it in Spectacular too but like everything else it's in glimpses it's funny that Spectacular gets praised for character growth but it was 1994 Spider-Man's thing while in Spectacular it was nothing more than a blip.
MJ was jelouse of Peter giving more attention to other girl's and people too not paying attention to her. She was just angry at Peter to me dating Harry cause she was maybe lost wanting someone to giver her attention in a relationship she even told Peter that how Harry is always there then later knows Harry is just a friend to her cause she didn't want to really marry Harry when he proposed to her. Peter even said does she love him she ran right off without answering she never even told Harry she loved him just that she cared about him. Was really pissed that when MJ came back it was a clone and not the real one like Peter hasn't been hurt enough right
@@shadowspidey7327 Plus unlike Spectacular Gwen Harry wasn't a means to an end for MJ in 94 it was general romance between them the big difference is MJ didn't go out with Harry to get back at Peter like Gwen did in Spectacular she actually saw value in Harry especially when he tried to defend her from Peter as the Man Spider so she was actually attracted to Harry rather than being jealous that Peter was distracted with other girls unlike Spectacular Gwen.
@@andrewadams4815 Yeah MJ felt that hero romance after he saved her from Man-Spider Gwen didn't really date Harry to get back at Peter but was confused thinking all he wanted was friendship. She was gonna dump Harry but then he pretty much guilty her into staying with him after Norman's so call death
@@shadowspidey7327 Really then why does Gwen pay more attention to Peter than Harry and she wasn't confused she was spiteful thinking all Peter wanted was friendship and it showed with her multiple times.
And I agree that Liz did receive character development but it was also overshadowed by the regression she received along with it I'm not saying she didn't grow but she regressed at the same time if that makes any sense.
@@sodium285 And I agree that she grew but also was as much a jerk to Peter as he was to her her calling him at the hospital only to realize she didn't need him when he arrived is up there with him kissing Gwen instead of her I know I already told you this but I repeat myself and it's not something I can control personal but something you need to know.
@@andrewadams4815 Thanks for reminding me about that. And if I'm recalling correctly, that was in Season 2. Stuff like that is what made Season 2 IMO worse than Season 1, which is saying a lot since Season 1 dropped the ball quite badly. Guess I couldn't fit everything in to this one video.
And sadly the reason they were together was on Liz's end than Peter's I agree he was an idiot but so was Liz even as she grew the scene where Pete gets his science job back and wants to tell Gwen but didn't sadly that wasn't Pete being an idiot as it was Liz any time Pete wanted to tell Gwen she was the one Liz prevented it that's why they were together at all cause Liz didn't want him with Gwen and I can't feel sorry for her when Pete breaks up with her cause had she not prevented Pete confessing his feelings to Gwen he would not have been as much an idiot to her.
I also hated that they wrote Walter Hardy (Black Cat’s Dad) as Uncle Ben’s killer. I wish they kept The Real Burglar (Dennis Carradine) as Uncle Ben’s killer.
The only thing I liked about Spectacular is Eddie Brock being a childhood friend of Peter Parker like in the 1610 Ultimate Spider-Man Comics but I feel now that that shouldn’t have been in the series and instead something actually based on the 1610 Ultimate Spider-Man Comics, heck even in Ultimate Spider-Man 2012.
This is why X-Men Evolution did this better the high school setting i mean the reason s1 is seen as the worst is the first half with the introduction episodes especially with the Brotherhood who are just evil monsters but the second half makes them more likable in fact the second half is when the characters start to become fleshed out the Brotherhood included and that's the point the first half of s1 is when the characters are all unlikable hero or villain. But by the second half both sides are fleshed out when Nightcrawler learns Mystique is his mother or the X-Men learning that she's also their principal and Prof X knew and kept it quiet and especially the season finale when Magneto makes his full first appearance and battles the X-Men for the first time as well as Cyclops reuniting with his brother Havok after being presumed dead for years. S2 opens stronger than S1 with Edward Kelly replacing Mystique as the principal and the Brotherhood trying to expose mutants to the world but Prof X and surprisingly Magneto won't allow it sure they're episodes that have S1 vibes but the debuts of other mutants (Boom Boom Jubilee Magma and Iceman) makes it more bearable to watch and the X-Men get better once Beast joins them and the same with the Brotherhood when Mystique returns and releases the Scarlet Witch from the asylum her father imprisoned her in as a child but the S2 finale is when the series truly gets better not only does Trask and the Sentinel make their debuts but the world is exposed to mutants for the first time and Mystique has been impersonating Prof X for some time making him unable to put the genie back in the bottle. S3 is when both the heroes and villains become more likable then they were previously the Brotherhood gets used by Kelly to expel all mutants from school and when that fails he expels the Brotherhood with Lance realizing that Kelly was using them to expel all the mutants meanwhile the X-Men have to deal with being hated and friends becoming enemies because they're mutants angering Spyke that he leaves the X-Men for the Morlocks (who make their debut this season) when his mutant powers grow out of control. S4 concludes a storyline that started in S2 with Apocalyspe finally debuting and the stakes higher than they ever were point is that the characters were only truly unlikable in the first half of S1 once the second half starts the characters and the rest of the series become more likable and bearable than the characters in Spectacular Spider-Man.
Good for you honestly Disney buying Marvel didn't get Spectacular cancelled the death of Saturday Mornings did and it premiered at the wrong place at the wrong time.
I agree that Saturday Mornings were starting to lose their popularity in the late 2000s. I think Disney shouldn't be solely blamed for Spectacular cancellation. Thanks for watching the video BTW.
@@sodium285 No problem and personally Spectacular seems to feel like the CW superhero shows that came later and Smallville especially with how the characters act and talk.
@@andrewadams4815 Exactly. And it baffles me that there are people who bash on shows like The Flash and Supergirl for the characters sometimes being idiots but simultaneously act like Spectacular Spider-Man is a masterpiece when it's guilty of the same thing.
@@sodium285 Personally it's just everyone's determination to blame Disney that made me rethink this before I thought the same way everyone else did but everyone wants to single Disney out and ignore or hardly focus on Warner who has been shown to be no different especially when it comes to screwing over shows and micromanaging everything.
@@andrewadams4815 Exactly. It's like people are looking for excuses to vilify Disney when a) Warner Bros. and Cartoon Network had been like this with shows like Teen Titans 2003 and b) Sony was the one producing Spectacular, and easily could've given Marvel the rights necessary to continue the show but they didn't and now we have what we have.
Plus despite the faithfulness to the comics the Spectacular Green Goblin never becomes a personal threat to Peter like he does in other media the thing people forget about the 94 series is despite Osborn being somewhat more decent than in the comics he was still ruthless regardless of that and when the explosion happens and the Green Goblin is born it's simply his split personality that's been dormant for so long and waiting to get loose as well as to quote the 2002 film "to say what he won't to do what he can't to remove those in your way". If there's ever proof that 94 is the mature Spidey adaption this is it in Spectacular Norman simply lied about Harry having a split personality in 94 they actually showed it with both Norman and Harry. And when Ned Lee (instead of Leeds because of a race swap that shouldn't have happened and didn't make a better character) asks Norman if he thinks Peter is Spider-Man since he's his son's best friend as well as as being there the day Spidey publicly debuted and saved his life his response is a blunt "No" plus while he tries to find Spidey's weakness in order to destroy him he never bothers to fake a robbery and expose him to gas that dulls his spider sense so he can follow him to learn his true identity as well as where he works or lives kinda like the comics or the 94 version did. If there's one thing that made Ultimate Spider-Man a better cartoon to keep watching is when Norman became the Green Goblin cause yeah s1 was awful it still had it's small moments and the two things that made it better were when Doc Ock finally came out from the shadows and fought Spider-Man for the first time and when Norman revealed himself to be behind everything in s1 as well as Ock turning him into the Goblin. After that it became a better more serious darker show with all the issues from s1 toned down to non existent and making White Tiger and even Nova more likable and treating Peter better than they did in s1 and what's sad the Goblin actually figured out Peter was Spider-Man yes he was finally destroyed and it was just Norman for the rest of the show but my point is he at least made an effort to figure Spidey's secret id while Spectacular Goblin never even tried if anything that is more insulting than anything Ultimate did in its four seasons.
@@zombiemomsen66 Yeah but they already made him a physical threat when he first appeared and his scheme with the Chameleon is very similar to the comics and the 94 cartoon but as much as he wants to kill Spidey he never bothers to learn his secret identity so it will be easier for him. It doesn’t help that he bluntly dismisses the idea that Pete is Spidey straightaway when Ned Lee asks him not counting Across the Spider-Verse (because Weisman had no involvement with that) the last we see of Norman he’s leaving to retire to Cayman Island like Roderick Kingsley in the original comics and that’s it and Weisman has not told us if Norman would’ve found out Peter was Spider-Man and given Weisman’s aversion to spoilers he never will. If anything season 2 would’ve been the perfect time to have Norman learn Pete is Spidey after Eddie did in the season one finale instead he simply retires to Cayman Island and we’ll never know what plans if anything were for him in Season 3 and beyond if it hadn’t been canceled. (Again I’m not counting Across the Spider Verse because again Greg had no hand in that).
@@zombiemomsen66 The problem is Weisman has never talked about any of the plans he had for Norman or if he would return as the Goblin or if he would learn Peter’s secret identity or that he would impaled on his own glider (although since he saw Gwen dying as too extreme he probably wouldn’t have done that either).
@andrewadams4815 I guess but all I'm saying is if no plans were confirmed who's to say norman couldn't come back and harry doesn't actually become Goblin later on. Seeing as how Norman is the arch nemesis...surely they'd have more planned...
Again this what makes me more forgiving not just towards Ultimate but Marvel and Disney as a whole the Ultimate cartoon lasted four seasons for a reason it had those small moments that made it worth continuing to watch and even if Disney hadn’t bought Marvel Saturday Morning blocks were on death’s door when Spectacular premiered so it would have been cancelled regardless. This is why I don’t bash Disney anymore it makes it like they’re the only ones who are doing this and will always do it and makes the other conglomerates (especially Warner) look like innocent victims who never did and never will that’s the problem it’s just Disney and only Disney and it’s not even if everyone would like it to be.
Another Marvel show that is similar to Ultimate is Iron Fist it also had small moments that made everyone continue watching plus it picked up the pace faster than Inhumans which is why it got a 2nd season while the latter didn't and that's cause Scott Buck had more control over Inhumans than he ever did on Iron Fist to call it an Arrow rip off would be an insult in the sense that Oliver didn't suffer as much after he came home and didn't have to face the consequences of choosing to fight crime Danny did both. Whatever ostracism Oliver endured after coming home is tame compared to Danny and I think Finn Jones captures that perfectly and survivors of these traumas end up emotionally stunted and capable of throwing tantrums every day for anything that upsets them or if they get PTSD flashback. Why do you think Danny wouldn't believe Harold was the cause of his parents death and his trauma until the last episode despite Ward telling him so this was his Dad's partner and friend and the idea that he could have caused this is too much for Danny to bear with. I'd also like to think that they're people who feel Finn Jones captured Danny Rand the way Charlie Cox Krysten Ritter and Mike Colter captured Matt Murdock Jessica Jones and Luke Cage. It wasn't all bad.
Then there's the fact that in spite of JJJ and the Bugle still being a thing for Pete and Spidey the city is not as against him as they are in other media and if anything that's probably the reason why he was such a jerk he never has to think about the consequences that being a superhero bring to his life and the lives of others because with a few exceptions no one ever gets angry or upset at how much destruction Spidey and the supervillains he unintentionally created by his presence cause to the city that's probably why he's always vilified in the comics and other media it's to both keep him grounded as well as have him think on how his actions affect people or how he could have done or handled things differently. And then there's Curt Conners if you're gonna give him a metal arm why turn into the Lizard at all MTV Conners had a metal arm as well but he didn't have a wife or son and was already a cold hearted ruthless person before he became the Lizard if anything that is the only way that making him inject Lizard DNA without even using test subjects will work but he has a wife and son like the comics yet still purposely injects himself without using test subjects before that and the look on his face whenever he injected himself made seem more like a villain than a tragic sympathetic figure. If you're going to have Curt purposely inject himself with Lizard DNA he shouldn't have a wife or son and already be a villain to begin with. And the other thing is despite Martha also being a scientist she doesn't take an active part to change Curt back from the Lizard aside from creating the formula and after she finds out Pete took pictures instead of helping to create the formula she understands him yet still fires him cause she can't trust him it just makes her seem more cold hearted than betrayed like Eddie and Gwen were.
Even Ultimate Spider-Man managed to keep the city being mostly against him throughout it's four seasons which is probably why Peter was more mature by seasons 3 and 4.
I mean the best Spidey comics are when the entire city is against him for how much damage he caused as the villains and in Spectacular Spidey causes just as much if not more damage as the villains yet no one ever gets upset shouts at him or even throws things at him and believe me that's as part of Spidey lore as anything else. It helps make Spidey more sympathetic and bring him back to reality and Spectacular never showed that despite good reasons to do so.
And Tombstone truly was a poor choice to replace the Kingpin as the Crime Boss of New York after being prominent in the first season he barely appeared until the later half of the second season and not long after he's outed to the world and the Green Goblin takes his place yeah Tombstone only ran crime in New York while Kingpin ran crime in the entire world in 94 but that's probably why Kingpin never got arrested plus he had more prominence in 94 than Tombstone ever did in Spectacular even though both are crime lords obsessed with destroying Spider-Man.
Honestly looking back, it's like Spectacular Spider-Man took all of the absolute worst aspects of being a teenager, dialed them up to 11, and said "now this is a cast of characters! This is perfect, let's run with it!" I won't deny that the show had decent action, the sound design wasn't too bad, and some of the voices and voice acting were alright, and yes, it did touch on some serious subject matters, but the flaws of the characters and how annoying they were completely overshadowed all of that, in my opinion. Another issue I had was with Peter's constant whining and complaining like a spoiled rotten little brat when things were going wrong. I get that Peter is always hard on himself, sometimes more than he needs to be. He feels like he never gets any breaks, and that his exploits as a costumed superhero always get in the way and screw up his life somehow. He worries about everything, and is usually expecting things to blow up in his face. The 1994 cartoon portrayed that perfectly, in my opinion, whereas in Spectacular, I just feel like we're dealing with a total crybaby who, even after making mistakes, still tries to rationalize and justify his actions, looking for any way he can to shift even a fraction of the blame off of himself, be it as Peter or as Spider-Man.
Well said. Now I had planned to make this video for over a year, not long after I had first had a conversation with you on the 6th Ranger's video on the 1995 MMPR Movie actually, and I was initially tempted to mention what we had previously said about Spectacular's Peter having a VERY similar attitude to the Billionaire Spider-Man from the Spider-Wars 2-Parter at the end of the 1994 Cartoon, but then I decided, as you can tell from the video, I decided to avoid any comparisons to other Spider-Man Cartoons and the Spider-Man Movies, only comparing it to Stan Lee's Spider-Man Comics when necessary, wanting to judge the show on its own terms. Plus, delaying this video for a bit allowed me to update my rankings on the Spider-Man and MCU Movies and make my videos on comparing Miles Morales to Rocky, Adam and Aisha and on MMPRs, and more importantly organise my thoughts on Spectacular. I'm thinking on making a video next year on what made Spider-Man 1994 great to celebrate that show's 30th Anniversary.
@@sodium285 Ah yes, I do indeed remember our correspondence in the comments section of that video very well lol. As I watched this one, I flashed back to us talking about that, and I still draw parallels between Peter in Spectacular and the billionaire version of Peter in the 90's series that was a brash, arrogant jerk. The only differences between that one and the one from Spectacular seem to be that the one from the 90's show is much older and richer, obviously, and Uncle Ben is still alive in the billionaire's world, but otherwise they're very similar. When you add the fact that many of the other characters besides just Peter are self-absorbed, it undercuts any positive messages the show might be trying to send, takes away from the meaning of the serious subject matters it might be attempting to tackle, and even makes the action sequences not worth sitting through, because once those are over, we're stuck with the same insufferable bunch of characters.
@@BlindRobotDragon True and sadly there's another difference unlike the billionaire Peter from the 90s series he's not called out on it and when he is it's by people who don't see it as a problem (MJ, Gwen) or are more self absorbed than he is (Mark Allan, Harry Osborn) and if there's two characters more self absorbed than Pete it's Gwen and Harry especially Harry.
@@andrewadams4815 I hadn't thought of that, but you're right. I mean I suppose one could attempt to make the argument that Eddy tried to rein Peter in, but that fell flat on its face when Eddy went off the deep end and became Venom.
If it wasn't Pete it was Harry as much as we'd like Harry to kill Pete if s3 had been made Harry had Pete's flaws times 11 I get Harry has an inferiority complex even when he doesn't need to he feels the constant need to get his father's approval and no matter what he does he'll never get it and will always have his father's scorn. Like Peter the 1994 cartoon portrayed this perfectly whereas in Spectacular we have even more of a total crybaby than Pete who even after his choices ruin everyone around him still tries to rationalize and justify his actions and does whatever he can to blame anyone but himself he's so worse than Peter that despite Norman's abuse it's impossible to relate or feel sympathy for Harry.
For all the talk about how developed and likable the characters in Spectacular were there was very little of it and of the few that were likable well the negatives outweighed the positives especially with Liz Allan i'm sorry but Liz may have made brief appearences in 94 but she was the mature woman they were trying to make Liz in Spectacular and she wasn't like "that Peter where is he oh Harry i love you" no she actually listened and talked with MJ about her issues with Peter and when she learns about Harry's depression she decides to cheer him up with a late night pizza as well as snap him out from being the Goblin when he tries to destroy Peter and MJ's wedding. Every time they tried to make Liz likable they made her unlikable at the same time i know i talked about this three times already but only because i can't blame Pete for treating her like he did twice Peter tried to tell Gwen how he felt and twice Liz stopped him kinda like what Harry did to Gwen where Peter was concerned if she wasn't already jealous of Gwen before she and Pete were dating i would feel bad that Pete abandoned her on Valentines but she was so i don't.
I loved Spectacular Spider-Man was perfect to me Josh Keaton was great for voicing him. Gwen Eddie and other character's were great too was so pissed it got canceled was so pissed at Disney for not making a deal with Sony like they are doing with the MCU I don't care what people say Spider-Man is the best superhero ever my all time favorite superhero
I'm happy you enjoyed the show. I wished I could say I did, but I hope you understand why. Because Spider-Man's my favourite Superhero too, I get more defensive about him than others.
I get why you think Spectacular is great and I don't hate it either but I don't think it outdoes 94 or Raimi trilogy in any way and I hope you hope you respect and understand that because that's the breaking point for me where Spectacular's concerned otherwise I respect your opinion on this.
And I can’t be pissed at Disney for canceling Spectacular the CW had the last Saturday Morning block standing and it was already on its way out so it still would’ve been canceled regardless and seeing what YJ became after it came back it’s to let sleeping dogs lie.
And Gwen having major social insecurites is what MJ went through in the Raimi films except MJ has valid reasons to act that way Gwen didn't for all the hate MJ gets in those films she has valid reasons for being that way her abusive homelife everyone expect Peter discouraging her acting and Harry simply using her to please his father but unlike Gwen MJ can see when Harry's a creep and calls him out for it at Norman's alleged funeral Harry isn't even trying to hide his emotional manipulation yet Gwen falls for it regardless. If you want proof Raimi MJ is better then Spectacular Gwen when she goes to seek solace with Harry in 3 she has more valid reasons to do so then Gwen ever did in Spectacular and unlike Gwen when MJ kisses Harry she regrets it almost immediately and leaves and seeing as how indifferent Peter is to MJ losing her acting career you can't blame her. Spectacular Gwen never had any of these reasons and comes off more shallow whiny and unlikable than Raimi MJ ever did. As much we wanted Harry to kill Peter in season 3 Harry showed he was just as bad if not worse than Peter so it's not worth it if the other characters are more unlikable than the hero that's my problem with Mark Allan Liz's brother he rightfully calls out Peter for his feelings for Gwen over Liz yet before that he's talking to Blackie Gaxton and still gambling even when he said he stopped a few episodes prior which probably upset Liz more than Peter ditching her on Valentines and the next episode when he willing becomes Molten Man to pay off his debts just makes what Mark said to Peter in the previous episode hallow and pointless and that's a problem when the people calling Peter out are more deplorable than he is even when Peter snaps at his friends due to the symbiote after Aunt May has her heart attack you can't blame him how could they help and when Flash calls him out it doesn't feels like a reality check as it is being spiteful. That scene could only work if Peter didn't have valid reasons for lashing out but he does and Flash just comes off as spiteful even though he isn't.
After watching the video above, I thought I might throw in my two cents on the matter. I did enjoy the video in question (as well as some of the points made in it), though it did have some flaws. One or two points could have been more thoroughly explored / explained, some points seemed odd but I got the ball park about what they meant, and some points that I felt would have helped the argument further where missing. For that last point, take what the show did with Kraven, Vulture, and even more points about Doctor Octopus as examples of what I'm talking about. To show this further, I have a written example below this statement. In the Original Spider-Man comics, Dock Ock was already seeing himself as "high and mighty" and a little wicked before the accident. Then after said accident, he went from a nine to an eleven. Going mad with power and wanting to take the world by storm. Now compare that to the "Spectacular Spiderman" version. Before the accident, he's a pushover scientist who takes orders without fuss. He wishes he was treated better (and even wishes he could take out his anger on those picking on him) but that is about it. He does not rely think of himself as being better than anyone. Plus he doesn't seem to enjoy his dark thoughts, he instead keeps trying to be humble. It's almost treated as if "Doctor Octopus" is an aggressive alternate personality that "Dock Ock" is trying to suppress. Then after the accident, he goes from a negative one to an eleven. Now in the "Spectacular Spiderman" series, Dock Ock was introduced in episodes before his accident. In all of his prier appearances however, he shows nun of his "darker side" in anyway. So it does feel like a one eighty (that comes out of nowhere) for the character. Now if someone was to say "Well I prefer the 'Spectacular Spiderman' version of Dock Ock." that's fine, however you then can't say that it's comic accurate. Stuff like the example above, I felt could have helped the video's overall point further. Even with that said, there was indeed many good points in the video above. Many of them going into perfect detail as well. I just felt that one or two improvements could have been made. Overall, I would give the video an eight out of ten. Well done Sodium285, keep up the good work.
Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate the kind words. I do agree I could've expanded on some points or mentioned about Vulture and Kraven. I guess I was afraid of making it too long. But I'm glad you enjoyed it 😊 ☺.
@@sodium285 I thought you might bring this up. "I guess I was afraid of making it too long." I must admit, there is so much wrong with the "Spectacular Spiderman" show, that it could easily take up a hole video series. So I can understand the need to try and have everything in one video. No joke, I almost mentioned that in my response above. However, I figured that it could wait till it was mentioned. Worst case scenario, you could always make a sequel. It's not like you would run out of material. P.S. On another note, one of these days I would love to show / talk over the classic Bat-Man series with you. For the record, I'm not talking about the 90's animated series. I'm referring to the original comics from 1939, created by the one and only Bob Kane. Stan Lee and Bob were friends, as such they had a lot in common. So if you enjoy Stan's writing, then I believe you would also enjoy Bat-Man. They are different, however they also have more in common then most believe. It's funny as well, modern "Batman" (in character) is almost unrecognizable to Bat-Man. If you like the 90's Spider-Man animated series, the 80's / 90's Batman films, the Lone Ranger, and Sherlock Holmes, then I rely think you would enjoy Bat-Man.
@@TheLoginProductions Thank you for being understanding. While yes, I could always make a follow-up, I don't want to be one of those people who make multiple videos on the same stuff they don't like. I hope you understand. That would be interesting to talk about regarding Bob Kane's Batman, and, as you know, I love Spider-Man The Animated Series from the 90s and I really enjoy Tim Burton's Batman Movies from the 80s/90s, so maybe I'll look into those comic further.
I agree that Spectacular Ock's descent into villainy came out of nowhere we saw more of Doc Ock's dark side before his accident in Spider-Man 2 than we did in Spectacular. And if you want to have a pushover scientist whose dark thoughts turn him into a villain look at 1994 Norman Osborn in his debut his dark side is on full display despite being a flunky to the Kingpin he never takes orders without a fuss and even before The Green Goblin he doesn't just wish to be treated better he takes action against Kingpin to make sure he is. Even before the explosion he was not a whining simp of a father as the Green Goblin later says but someone who enjoys his dark thoughts and with good reason and even though tries to be humble he always fails due his enemies. And don't forget 1994 Norman created the Hobgoblin which true that it backfired at first but when Kingpin finally pushes him over the edge combined with the explosion from the gas ironically meant for Kingpin his darker side we'd seen building up in prior appearances finally comes out and the gas lets Norman have the Hobgoblin armor and weapons for himself becoming a stronger better version of himself but of the Hobgoblin cause besides armory and weapons Hobgoblin doesn't have superpowers so if you want example of pushover scientist descent into villainy done right look at the 1994 cartoon only with Norman Osborn instead of Doc Ock.
And as much as I like Vanessa Marshall as MJ she only captured the seductive side of her MJ is a multi layered character and while it could be argued that it took awhile before MJ became that in the comics the 94 series MJ was already multi layered complex and human shortly after her debut and Sara Ballantine gets too much flak for voicing MJ but she captured the character more than she gets credit for. For me Ballantine is first with Marshall being second for being the definite voice of MJ and that's only cause MJ in 94 unlike in Spectacular was actually a character and not a backdrop sorry but giving Gwen advice on how to be noticed by Peter or dating Mark doesn't make her a character doesn't help that when Mark becomes Molten Man and is arrested and thrown in prison we see Liz being more affected by it than MJ plus she and Liz were starting to bond yet she is not upset when she realizes Pete plans to break up with Liz. And I feel more sorry for Pete than i do Liz Pete did try to say more than two words to Gwen about his feelings for her but Liz wouldn't allow it same reason i don't feel bad when Pete ditches Liz on Valentines she already had that spiteful jealousy towards Gwen before they were dating.
For me I still have a soft spot for this cartoon series, but for me while I agree with your videos points for the most part but at the same time I hope you try to voice your opinions without people being jerks to you in the comments. I think if I sat through your video on miles morales I will hate it because that character is my favorite spiderman.
Honestly i would be alright with Spectacular being called a good or even great show if everyone didn't constantly believe it's better than 94 or the Raimi films honestly the guest superheroes helped contribute to the plot not just to sell toys plus this was the first time the Punisher and Blade appeared in animation same with Venom and Carnage as well as Morbius. This was the first Spider-Man cartoon to truly adapt Spidey's world something even Spectacular failed to do and whatever faults Spider-Man 3 had making the Sandman Uncle Ben's killer wasn't one of them yes it was a retcon but it didn't destroy the origin Uncle Ben still got killed and in a way Spidey did let the burglar go just not the one he thought. What does making the burglar Walter Hardy do besides give Black Cat a flimsy reason to hate Spidey a la Jessica Carradine from the 90s comics plus unlike in 3 Spectacular Peter doesn't do truly terrible things to his loved ones and missing Liz's play doesn't count so he has no reason to forgive unlike in 3. And i personally like 94 Harry and Gary Imhoff captures the vulnerable insecure son who desperately seeks his fathers approval that James Arnold Taylor failed to with his Harry in Spectacular so what if 94 had people shooting lasers instead of guns MTV Spider-Man had people shooting guns yet it only lasted one season if anything this was Marvel's Batman TAS not Spectacular only subtle instead of blunt which can also apply to the DCAU as a whole.
Then there's the problem of Spectacular borrowing from the Ultimate and Original comics as well as the Raimi trilogy while doing nothing creative or original in the process the problem with Spidey's origin being like the first film is that the Green Goblin's origin should've happened at the same time instead it happens after the Vulture kidnaps him as Norman. But I will defend Otto's turn to villainy a bit despite agreeing it was done poorly the arrogant genius megalomanic was laying very dormant in Otto and accident was just what it needed to come out and in an episode of S2 when everyone thinks he's reverted back to being a weak milquetoast man much to Electro's disgust we find out he was faking it all along point being the sniveling weak man that apologized to everyone for everything was so much a facade that Otto didn't even know until the accident let it out it didn't drive him insane as it unleashed the person Otto always wanted to be. Plus as great an actor as Ed Asner was he worked better as JJJ from the 94 Spider-Man than Uncle Ben in Spectacular he just came off as a poor man's Cliff Robertson especially when he said Ben's exact same lines from the the first film but made it weaker somehow.
And the more i think about it Ed Asner worked better as JJJ in the 94 series heck even as Officer Barr in MTV Spider-Man but not as Uncle Ben in Spectacular because it's basically a pale imitation of Cliff Robertson's take on the character from the first film the problem with that is in the first film it explicitly states that he was laid off after 35 years of service so the corporation can upsize their profits whereas in in the first episode of Spectacular it's said he was simply a poor financial wizard which actually makes Uncle Ben just as unlikable as Peter. With Ben and Peter they were made very likable and Peter using his powers to wrestle is he can get a car so MJ will finally see him what was Peter's plan once he got his money after he used his powers for wrestling help his aunt and uncle impress his peers we don't know and this wouldn't be a big problem if they hadn't verbatim borrowed the origin from the first film and even the car scene is also a pale imitation because Peter snaps at Ben before wrestling in Spectacular it shows that Ben made the same speech but Peter didn't snap back what makes borrowing the origin story and the car scene from the first film a pale imitation is Ben actually had a reason to say all this because of Peter's strange behaviour and Peter snaps because he's hurt that his uncle thinks he gonna become a criminal in Spectacular it just feels too perfect and there's no tension before or after the spider bite where Peter and Ben and May are concerned.
Yes but it also takes heavy inspiration from the Raimi trilogy the Ultimate comics and to a certain extent the BND era that happened the same time Spectacular premiered and sadly it doesn’t always mesh very well.
@andrewadams4815 ok... I know. Never said it was the only thing lol. That was implied that I was just pointing out that it was one of a few inspirations
@@zombiemomsen66 Why are you being so awkward about this yes Spectacular borrows from the Lee/Ditko era but it’s not the only source it borrows from and you’re kidding yourself if you think that it does.
That’s probably why 2017 Peter is more likable that’s why I don’t understand the hate for Marvel’s Spider-Man 2017 the cartoon not the game Dan Slott’s just a consultant and has no input in how the show was made aside from adapting his stories which is confirmed even more by the fact Peter is more of a mature kind person than a unlikable man child in Slott’s comics if anything this was the perfect Spidey cartoon to get after Ultimate ended not only does Peter not break the fourth wall he’s also mature and intelligent and capable of being a hero plus his friends are actually friends and not unlikable creeps who hate him for no reason as well as helping him when he needs it if I had to pick the definite voice of Spidey after Barnes Harris and Keaton it would be Daymond let’s face it he captures the heart and humanity of the character and is capable of doing dramatic and emotional scenes that Drake Bell never could.
I can't say i have any nostalgic interest in Spectacular returning remember when everyone wanted Young Justice to return and after 10 years it did and it basically destroyed all the development and goodwill that the other seasons had and now it's been cancelled again this time for good. And it had the same creative team that worked on the previous seasons so i'm concerned that the same thing will happen to Spectacular if the same creative team is able to revive it. It's best left in the past and to be fair Ultimate did get better and even Marvel's Spider-Man 2017 proved to be a very good adaption of the character. For me i prefer the 90s Marvel cartoons even the worst ones of that era were better than anything now (yes that includes Avengers United They Stand) it may not have made it to the 2000s like the DCAU but it's still memorable in it's own right. Marvel didn't have a movie to capitalize like DC did with Batman yet when DC made the first accurate cartoon based on the character Marvel followed suit with the X-Men who before that had only guest appearances in the 80s cartoons. Then Spider-Man followed suit and as far as anyone should be concerned and in spite of all it's limitations Spider-Man TAS was Marvel's Batman TAS not Spectacular (sorry but i find it difficult to believe that Spectacular could ever match Batman TAS) and Iron Man and Fantastic Four soon followed along with the Hulk the Avengers and the Silver Surfer and regardless of their varying quality they were still far better than their later modern adaptions. Like it or not those cartoons are the reason Marvel became as much a household name as DC and if anything we should be grateful to them for that.
Nice. In fact, one of the next video essays I plan to make is on Spider-Man TAS and why It deserves to be considered one of the BEST Superhero Shows of ALL-TIME. Which couldn't be better timing than for its 30th Anniversary.
@@sodium285 Yeah it does and honestly i'm tired of everyone pointing out the flaws in Spider-Man TAS while refusing to see any in Spectacular. My problem is the character development and growth that Spectacular gets praised for was hardly there while in TAS it was prominent throughout the series. Dr Octopus may have become a lackey in the later seasons of TAS and was even beaten by a child he was still a major threat regardless. And the fact that TAS was the first to show Otto and Peter to have a personal relationship prior to getting their powers makes it more forgiving because while he was a lackey he wasn't a mindless one and was still his own character despite that. And personally i prefer Efrem Zimbalist Jr over Peter MacNicol as the voice of Dr Octopus who when you think about what he sounds like it's with a thick Germanic accent not a nasal voice. And yes Kingpin did overshadow a lot of iconic Spider-Man villains but he didn't take away their menace not even Doc Ock when he became the Kingpin's lackey.
@@andrewadams4815 Exactly. Stuff like this is what has made Spider-Man TAS kind of underappreciated in many ways. It had great character development. Peter goes through and amazing arc throughout all five seasons. The characters were flawed but very likeable and learn from their mistakes, the villains, even the minor ones had reasonable motivations and feel like the true spirit of their comic book counterparts. Spider-Man TAS felt like a SPIDER-MAN Show, while Spectacular felt to me like a CW Show with Spider-Man Characters. Speaking of which, I even got the idea of eventually doing a video on why I think the 2017 Spider-Man Animated Series is Better than Spectacular. At first, I wasn't planning on talking about Spectacular again after I had made this video, but then I realised I could expand on my MANY problems with Spectacular while also defend Spider-Man 2017. Besides, whenever I've seen people (Undeservingly) rip apart Spider-Man 2017, they often bring Spectacular up and compare it to that, so I thought it would fun to do the other way round, and state it in the title.
@@sodium285 That's good and sadly many of the people who rip into 2017 Spider-Man have only watched the first season and refuse to go further. And as likable as Flash was with Sha Shan he was even more likable with Debra Whitman in TAS.I get Herman Schultz isn't much of a character in the comics but that didn't stop TAS from using him anyway rather having someone else be the Shocker i.e Montana like in Spectacular. And TAS was also the first appearance of Harry Osborn outside of the comics and while still a creep was still more likable than in Spectacular and when hear his voice i think of Gary Imhoff than James Arnold Taylor who simply made him too unlikable unintentionally as Taylor is a great voice actor but didn't capture Harry Osborn like Imhoff did. Honestly i prefer Robbie Daymond as the definite version of Spider-Man behind Keaton Harris and Barnes. (And before you respond Christopher Daniel Barnes was the iconic voice to Spider-Man like Kevin Conroy was to Batman it will never be Keaton and it's sad that most think Barnes was grating when Spidey's had worse voice actors).
And personally I think it's insulting whenever people say TAS insults and talks down to its audience which is what a lot of people on RU-vid have been saying. Except it never did even at its worse (which was still better) it never did. The reason Kingpin was never caught is he was a global crime lord whereas Tombstone was a crime lord for New York. But Kingpin always had the respect of supervillains even after they turned on him with Tombstone the moment he began creating supervillains his criminal empire fell apart because once they stopped being low level thugs they didn't need to follow Tombstone anymore.
@@seanking8427 Neither can I. Now, I'm currently working on my MCU Tier List Video, but after that I'll try and do a video discussing the WORST parts of some Fandoms. In the case of the Spider-Man Fandom, my pick is DEFINITELY The Spectacular Fans
@@MariokibmibYT Just put simply everything he says in the video I have the opposite opinion on. The negatives at least. When he praises the show I agree.
@@kocetociparov1089 The shows gotten enough praise without @sodium285 if you want to have an opposite opinion from his fine but he's not wrong with any of the negatives sorry but Spectacular should have criticism as well as praise when it's all praise nothing is.
