Why I Finally Quit Wing Chun 

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Lol is it? Looking back I’d rather have had Mike Tyson be the absolute savage that he was and existed than being a soft spoken good human.

That's my path ←(>▽

@@cryptocaesar8972 Tell that to his rape victims’ faces, you absolute edgelord.

Yes, and if you do not use your martial art training to make your self a better person, then your martial art training will make you a worse person.

True, and that goes with anything not necesarily including martial arts

For me it shows that his main focus wasn't to become a top martial artist, it was a social activity. I've trained with people I detested, simply to improve my skills.

@@elizajames477 Yeah. Even now, it's all about reaching out to all sorts of different people, forming bonds, and making friends. Personally I like how he reaches out to all sorts of martial artists and gives them the time of day, and allows them to show what they have to offer

🤣👌

@PaMuShin Yes you must go to the mountain top and then into the grottos. Make cryptic movements that defy comprehension. How he move next? We cannot know because he is in the becomingness and constantly changing. Love solitude and solitude and solitude will love you. Shed the husk of humanity to become a superior being.

During my Taekwondo years, I noticed the hypocrisy between ATA, WTF, ITF, etc. It felt more like club rivalries competing on who had the most kids enrolled. For every step to advance it was all about money, money, and more money. I was no better a martial artist just because I had obtained a black belt. I still got beaten in the MMA rings. Even met some females who were tougher fighters in Krav Maga, Kempo, or Muay Tai. If you focus on point sparring you will never be a realistic martial artist.

My southern mantis was very much like that as well. After he left the area, I looked at similar styles but found that it wasn't the style but the actual fight experience of the instructor as well as their attitudes and open-mindedness. Sadly, instructors like the one you describe are definitely in the minority when it comes to Chinese schools.

It's a people thing. It only takes one politician on a group to turn something collaborative into something competitive. sad truth of it all

Except that it’s so much less toxic in the practical martial arts world When u aren’t live drilling u can’t decide who knows what they are talking about and who is making up bullshit

That’s the TKD community in the philippines right now

@@kermit1211 TKD??

@@silver_tongue9644 Taekwondo. Way of the foot and fist.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IRMuG62UL2c.html this is how my trainer still teaches fighting. We did WingTsun drills, just to get the principle of aggression down and then did a lot of sparring. There never was any zig zag footwork, just typical fighting with very little clean "wingtsun" technique

Actually, you don't see the zig zag footwork + chain punching + straight kick when they fight a resisting opponent who doesn't play wing chun. It's what you should see, if the wing chun stuff worked according to their theory, but all you see is flailing punches.

I'm not a Wing Chun guy, but I had friends who were and they would talk about how the lineage arguments boiled down to "The elbow should be at 45 degree angle!" "No, it should be at a 44 degree angle!" "No, you're full of it - it should be 46 degrees!"

@@karimshebeika8010 I was gonna say, in that clip, it's funny how when you pressure test that it basically looks like MMA.

@@WarriorBoy Nope. Not at all. Most WC practitioners have never fully mastered what they are taught.. .and because they have not sparred heavy/full contact.. much, if ever... When they DO try it.. they tend to look like sloppy kickboxers. I USED to be like this, initially, when I was starting out. However, I trained harder, longer, and more intensely.. in addition to sparring regularly. Eventually, I was able to maintain perfect WC form IN full contact sparring sessions... typically against fighters that were double my own mass and strength. The key here is, Mastery. A non-mastered tech.. is like trying to cut a tough piece of steak, with a dull butterknife. Its going to be a disaster. A constant struggle, against continual failures. Its only when your tools and ability to apply those skills, are Razor sharp.. that you can apply them accurately, without failure. In addition to poor training and execution... far too many in WC circles try to make Excuses about how techniques do not have to be Accurate to the way they are taught in the form / art. This is a fallacy. This is the type of thing that is said... because they Lack the ability and understanding, of how to perform properly, under the strain of heavy contact sparring situations. One can say something similar about Pro MMA fighters. There are plenty of them that throw very sloppy kicks. Even if the kicks land... they often lack stopping power. The fault is not the kicks they try to execute... The Fault is in the lack of Masters of these kicks. I can find you countless TMA's, that are capable of FAR Superior kicking abilities, that will severely injure an OP, on a single impact. They can apply these kicks flawlessly EVERY time they are thrown, consistently. This is what it means, to have Masterclass level abilities. Being paid to fight, does not mean that you are a Masterclass level fighter.

I thought Wing Chun and Wing Tsun are the same thing but with different pronunciations?

@@rcarfang2 it’s the same thing... you wanna learn real wingchun go learn from Samuel kwok or ip ching

wow he spent 2 hours lecturing instead of spending 2 hrs in actually practicing the martial art? that's a waste of 2 hrs.

@@liam-n8098 Not to be that guy but the fact you allowed yourself to be "lectured" for 2 hours is ridiculous. I would have left, I train BJJ and I wouldn't let a different school waste my time over a clear ego issue.

At Wing Tsun I hardly ever hear anyone talking sh!t about other lineages. People just don’t care about some lineages argues on the other side of the globe, we just want to learn the art. I wish every other lineage the same thing!

I would like to hear an opinion from you. In your opinion does wing Chun not work only because of the lack of practical training and focus on handing down forms and lineage politics? Would wing Chun if supplemented with practical training from other arts such as sparring and pad work. Then would it work?

Dude that’s hilarious.

@@ultimatedrago4909 There are some great Wing Chun people out there. Mark Phillips is about to do a talk with Rokas soon hopefully ;) Stay tuned for that.

I don't understand why is that good for you, I always get saaad why I see something like that and it hurts my soul, because it's like rape the art of fighting. I don't like bullshido, I don't understand how can you tolerate and watch them. :D

@@ultimatedrago4909 If Wing Chun trained properly, then it could handle regular, untrained people, but not fighters, like boxers, thaiboxers, etc. So... Yes and no. It would be a suicide to chose Wing Chun for fighting on competitive level against fighters, but it's alright, if you just wanna have fun and still learn SOME self defense. Wing Chun can work against untrained people, but not against trained fighters.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aOMkqYNFVDs.html

Tai chi is some kind of meditation with movement right ??

😁👌

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*there are no secret techniques. School fees should be affordable. If you have to pass 50 levels and buy 3 t shirts+ 2 books and dvds, it can be a sign that the club loves more the money than the art.

It's not 🤣.

Long story short. I hope more and more people start doing martial arts because they like and enjoy it, not because it's the one true lineage or because they'll be able to beat up anyone xD

Do you think wing chun is good to learn for fighting? Or would you priotise a different martial arts, I’m looking to get into one

I think this happening has a lot to do with elitism which develops out of emphasis on rank and years of experience instead of actual pressure testing skills. That plus a twisted understanding and desire of wanting to replicate some sort of image of Eastern culture and old school martial arts movies.

@@MartialArtsJourney Rokas, seen my knife defense tests yet? 🙂 It's possible to disarm without getting cut. 😉

I almost feel that in western dojo, that a teacher actually holds you back. Anyone seeking a martial journey generally needs a teacher to build a foundation. But then by continuing to learn from others, it can be a hindrance.

Its not like Chinese soap opera experience anymore tho😂

@@epic-zc3oo lol break it down for me

Ah damn, I love foreplay.

I had the same experience. In our 'exams' we had to spar against 7 opponents "the street is not fair, to teach you to how to fight fair is not training you for the street."

Who is your sifu if you don't mind me asking?

I am so tired of kung fu looking like a museum display.... its alive and needs to be treated like it.

@@arbogast4950 Too much art, not enough martial.

I saw the same comparing Hung Gar schools and lineages. Allthough I'm absolutely fine with mine even some in our school seem to waste time in those bullshit arguments about "that one lineage which is worse than ours because of some bullshit that happened in the early 1900's". I mean we spar a lot and still use the traditional forms to practice certain things and actually win a lot of medals be it in form competitions or full contact matches and still some people can't just be happy with us showing on tournaments that we have skill. I'd rather make friends with other styles and lineages than ever caring about such crap. At the very least those sentiments are getting lesser and lesser every day and only a few people remain a little more stubborn.

Always blows my mind that someone wouldn't do sparring. My Taekwondo school at least had weekly sparring full contact.

Lmao I had a similar experience with my former karate club. You see, our sessions were put on an abrupt stop when the lockdowns hit and even after that our club took a while to reopen so what I did was cross train in kickboxing and BJJ while it was still closed. When we got together again and I told them about it they all looked at me like a heretic and told me modern methods like hitting the heavy bag and sparring were ineffective and practicing katas are the way to go 🤣

took tae kwon do once, instructors had us spar after every session so it was drill then spar with grappling. Brown belt instructor loved to show us other techniques from other martial arts, then again it was called safe kids so his intention was to show ways to defend yourself, unfortunately for me, and i blame myself for not keeping my nerves under control i was often the biggest. my mother didnt care for the blue belt instructors she felt they would work me up too much instead of slowing down to help me get stuff she liked the brown belt instructor because he would do that. wass eventually recommended to stop going due to my nerves threw up alot, did take somethings home with me could still at least spar with a buddy from high school later just wasnt used to getting hit in the head

@@JaneLike5 Late reply, but it is SUPER DUPER common. There tends to be many different organizations and schools of any 'style' of martial arts you can think of. Like different sects of the same religion. And 1.) People are naturally very tribal, just look at how people act even with regards to different sports teams. So easy to form an us vs them mentality. 2.) The instructors know, even if only subconsciously, that the 'others' are competitors. Thus painting everyone else in a bad light is good for the bottom line, though consciously they may also believe in what they are saying. And yes, cult like behavior is very common in martial arts. Like I said, people are naturally very tribal so they just accept all the trash talk of others with little to no question. Especially if it's coming from someone they consider to be an authority figure. Especially when they're younger. Also, all people seek out to be accepted in some sort of group and joining in on hating on others outside their circle *really* makes them feel accepted in their chosen group. You see the same thing in life in general really, not just in martial arts. So not surprising at all really.

🤯😁

But how is it said in Cantonese since it's southern style.

Correct. Yong Chun is the pinyin romanization of the Mandarin Chinese pronunciation. Wing Chun, Ving Chun and Wing Chun are various romanizations of the Cantonese pronunciation. Since Wing Chun is a Southern Chinese style and most of the famous proponents were/are Cantonese speakers, these are the most commonly seen translations of the Chinese characters. ...Wait ...am I responding to THE Ramsey Dewey, the bald headed MMA coach from Shanghai? ...with the voice to match James Earl Jones??? I am in awe, coach! Love your videos!!!

Hahahaha! Good one, Ramsey! I think right now someone will read this and then we will see a brand new organization of the Wing Chun named Yong Chun. 😁

@@willstith1 No idea. I don’t speak Cantonese. It’s only spoken in Guangdong province and Hong Kong. I live in the mainland.

Everything you described I too experienced and it was a major turn off for a lot students including me. Only difference is that I actually stuck it out and put much of what I learned to the test by questioning much of what was taught from the very beginning, which is considered taboo to question your teachers in kung fu I know, but luckily my teacher encouraged it, and also I would spar outside the school against various styles and practitioners, not just wc from other families, but boxers, kickers, wrestlers etc which gave one quick insight to all the shortcoming but also on how to improve on them so it does work in real time which no one ever really practices in school settings. I mean fighting speed is instantaneous and spontaneous and you dont know nor can predict what your opponent's first move out of the gate is going to be. Its not at all like in in your dojo or kwoon where You're able to ask your opponent/student to throw you a punch or a kick that you know already how you gonna block for demonstration purposes. It looks great to impress onlookers but thats not real fighting or how real fighting really goes. And honestly, I feel thats whats missing in most if not all traditional martial arts. Even mma has its shortcomings too if you wanna keep it 100 because if you training for cage fighting, then your missing the dirty fighting and deadly self defence moves of traditional training that cage fighting prohibits which can also mean the difference between life and death on the streets where you only get one chance to disarm say a knife attacker or someone holding a gun to your head. Mma doesn't address any of that. But they know how to take a hit and apply multiple disciplines to take down and do hols without fear because they practice in real fight mode already which is a huge advantage to traditional who still needs to step it up in that regard. But i tell ya, if traditional were to do that, it would be tons more effective and light years ahead. They just gotta change up the way of training to match real world fight speed or mode and teach chinese arts as a form of wrestling as it was originally intended, not western boxing which even most practitioners assume from watching to many movies. Wing chun in particular is a close quarter art meant to stick to the opponent much like a wrestler does. If you were to approach and apply wc in that mindset as a wrestling art, its a game changer! Imagine running hands for a take down or hold rather than a punch, and all your hand traps used to immobilize and keep your opponent in a constant clinch while you slip into your next take down or hold. Its really in reality another sophisticated form of wrestling meant to feel your opponebts next moves and never get trapped yourself like we see many western wrestlers do staying one place just to force their way into controlling the opponent with a lot of muscle strength. In chinese wrestling, you always keep it moving and stay free! If one technique fails, you run and slip into another then another and another so as to not tire yourself out trying to force your way in which we see so many mma fighters do in the ring. In the streets you wouldn't evenn have that luxury of taking your time on the ground like that. You'd die if you do that.

This is very helpful. Years ago I'd learned some WT for a maybe 2 years but the factionalism meant learning more from books was met with disapproval. Ultimately I lost interest. I only learned what disfunctional relationships there were when I stumbled on an internet argument on a forum between a former teacher and a more student who'd split off and decided to start teaching his own classes.

I train at a kung fu school which really doesn't have a style. In the beginning I was quite confused about that. There are no fixed or set forms taught where i train, instead one chooses and trains individual techniques and fits them into a form by oneself. I used to see that as odd but it makes sense to me now because the practical use of a form to me lies in how good you can execute an individual technique under alive circumstances. Other people don't train forms at all and focus only on sanda or like me personally, mix both aspects. Over time I have come to enjoy it this way though others may not see it as "the correct way" to learn a martial art.

@@gushlergushler Oh man, it's cool that you found something like that, that you like. But I would go crazy without forms. They're so fun.

Sounds like what Bruce Lee emphasizes how martial arts should train. Good on your gym.

Martial artists*

@@fauxbravo To be fair, I also do practice some classic forms, especially qi xing quan but I started that just recently. It is really great fun though.

I love his channel! Incredibles vidéos!

wow... I am a Korean, but I never heard aobut Hwa Rang Do as a martial art...

​@@SoulbomB that already speaks for itself, i would think you know about taekwondo and hapkido

I find it so weird, because I do Goju Ryu karate now, my dad did shotokan (was national champion in my counrtry 3 times) and all the karate people are friendly with each other, go to the same seminars etc and always only say good stuff about each other.

Agreed especially in the kung fu/Karate scene , there is so much drama its unreal.

,* a lot (is two words). Lot begins with the letter: L (not A).

@@stevenjoyce4350 can't stand word police .

@@chrisgermann6658 l can't stand people that think "alot" is a word. I learned how to spell three-letter words in my first year of Primary School. Perhaps you park "acar" in "aparking" lot !.

@@stevenjoyce4350 you sound very snobbish you need to loose up.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IRMuG62UL2c.html 3 years ago he still had a school. I know this link comes a little late, you already made your video about WingTsun. But still, nice to see that he actually still does resitance tests.

@@karimshebeika8010 That sounds like a man who really understood Wing Tsun / chun and martial arts in general.👊

Gloves you were part of the commercialisation of Wing Chun to be a money maker off the westerners who all want to be better than Bruce Lee etc but in 6 months without the pain

I did bujinkan too and lost faith when they kept charging more and more money every new belt or strpe. I didnt care about that status, i just wanted to train.

Same thing I said about bjj, shitty mind thought

Donnie trained multiple different types of martial arts besides wing chun

@@nyclee9133 I know... I Just replied what he said when asked about Wing Chun and his favourite Martial Art. 🤷‍♂️

Obviously MMA is the most useful under modern combat rules. It evolved with the rules while traditional training focuses on the center and moving into the enemy's weak positions.

@@circulationsolutions9149 The thing is, what do you mean by "traditional training"? It really doesn't get much more traditional than simple Boxing and Wrestling. Maybe if you talk about rulesets etc. Even in the case of Pankration it was already Olympic in 648 B.C.

@@NinjaKid1985 Donnie Yen is a Wushu and Kung Fu expert first. This traditional training is much older than modern boxing and wrestling and creates far different athletes.

...but what would I know, I was in one of those “hard CH”, hack-fraud wing chun schools lol

This seems to happen in many martial arts but maybe more so in wing Chun. As an outsider who mostly trained in karate I was impressed buy a teacher I met a few years ago. Wing Chun definitely has something to offer as far as training techniques (sticky hands) that don't have much counterpart in other striking arts, not to mention the focus on trapping range that even karate has forgotten, but the purism holds it back so much.

A part of me thinks that it’s not necessarily Wing Chun in and of itself but traditional Confusionist ideas of preferential filial loyalty that causes this phenomenon.

It's not just about tradition, in fact Kernsprecht talks all the time about how he personally made Wing Tsun more modern and practical in real-life fight situations. And I can definitely agree he made it more modern. The most modern thing being that he turned it into a multi-level marketing corporation. I still believe I've aquired some practical skills there, but none of them are fighting skills. His school puts a lot of emphasis on psychological techniques of conflict deescalation and I found some of those to be somewhat useful.

It's all because of Bruce Lee. Hadn't he been a student of Ip Man, no one outside of Hong Kong would have ever heard of Wing Chun except for some martial arts historians Kernspecht was/is a marketing genius. He bought Leung Ting as puppet representative for his organisation as the supposedly legitimate Ip Man successor, used Bruce Lee's name as flag ship for Wing Tsun while at the same time downplaying him as "he hadn't even learned the whole system" insinuating that if Bruce Lee was "so good even with just a fraction of the system - imagine how good YOU can become if you learn from the grandmaster Leung Ting, Ip Man's only master student who learned the whole system!"

@@angelsjoker8190 That's absolutely the company line. In '79 I started with the Augustine Fong system then I trained under Leung Ting, Emin Boztepe, and taken seminars or worked out with Duncan Leung People, Sam Kwok people, etc. etc. but I had more luck in self defense with, of all things, my high school wrestling and what I learned from an Escrima guy named Rene Latosa. Check him out. If Wing Chun is going to survive, it will be because of open minded, progressive influences like Alan Orr. Check him out too.

@@VTSifuSteve Yeah, Latosa Escrima was part of Kernspecht's EWTO but parted ways in the early 2000s. Back then, before he left, you would officially learn "Latosa Escrima" in EWTO Wing Tsun schools. Since he left, he's been deleted from the EWTO webpages. Now, they claim their Escrima started with Bill Newman without even mentioning he was Latosa's student. Now it's all corporate and just called EWTO Escrima.

@@VTSifuSteve Alan Orr's Wing Chun is the result of not letting ego and fear of being exposed holding back a massive determination in using Wing Chun techniques in principle in reasonable ways. Years of cross training, of studying MMA, and research that has gone into making his style of Wing Chun usable is crazy. And it seems that he is one of the only people (That we know of outside of Qi La La) that are willing to do whatever needs to be done to make WC effective. Even if it means breaking from tradition, cross training in other styles and being serious about training methodology for fighting. Wing Chun as a whole could learn a lot from Orr and Qi La La.

It is the same in catch wrestling. No catch wrestling is this. While other said catch wrestling is this. But then again freestyle wrestlers may hate catch wrestling. Saying it is fake, wrestling don't have submission, look like pro wrestling ( well duh pro wrestling AND freestyle wrestling evolved from catch wrestling), etc. It is just that freestyle wrestling removed the submission.

Rofl...............Bless..............

thank God i practice silat, it's free. due to the gruesome training, the instructors are more than happy if you come to the training ground next session.

@Kung Fu Warlock our silat was assimilated with BajiQuan and XinYiLiuheQuan. Silat and Baji/Xinyi is very effective against white people (taller and bigger opponent) when we fought in 1947-1949 independence war. many Kuo Min Tang partisan join our side and assimilated those with silat. while the ex-japanese soldiers that join us assimilated karate, judo and aikido with our silat. the ex-gurkha that join us assimilated Kalaripayat with our silat. until today we have a saying in our silat community, "it's all fun and games until the silat practitioner use Baji Quan". i don't want to take a chance, i only use silat when it suits me, such as kicking techniques and counter grapple. im not afraid people who know silat like in merantau movie, im only afraid those who came from east java region who will resort to Baji quan when shit got serious. Baji Quan is literally a one hit kill weapon. Baji and Xinyi basic is taught in the basic belt while Karate/muaythai is taught in the intermediate belt and silat for the advance/near initiation belt. i've seen and experienced how devastating Baji quan did by silat practitioners, i can only imagine what a real Baji/xinyiliuhe quan practitioners can do. also i wonder why xu xiaodong only challenge wing chun masters and never challenge any baji quan or xinyiliuhe quan pactitioners. that would be an eye opening for him.

Stories is exactly what they all, Fairy tales.. Basicaly he did a couple karate classes in a leisure centre... smh

All the Bruce Lee fanboys make me laugh, also the Ip Man films are really propaganda films against the Japanese and the Westerners. They are constantly winning the wars they lost. Who can blame them? They were treated very badly.

I teach wing chun and agree 100% with you. Most practitioners seen are generally not so great. It has worked well for me. I did not have this nonsense like this guy is saying. Anyhow; I'm a retired LEO and used it well. At times I had to severely tamper it because I got in trouble.

lol, just like me when I was just 16 years old. It was the year when Ip Man was released. I looked up videos on youtube and started learning on my own. I thought I was a badass back then. I was delusional af. I only came to my senses when I started boxing lessons 4 years later lol

I practice Wing Chun since I was 13, almost 30 years ago, taught to me by my father, and it helped me a lot in high school because I was the fat boy of the class and bullied. That being said, Ip Man movies weren't around yet and my father taught me a more practical Wing Chun, to fight on the outside gate of the opponent and end the fight quickly, not beautiful or choreographed, just practical, mostly you can end a fight with just a Tan Sao and a Chung Kuen or a Ju Chueng.

@@insidethevelvetglove3919 i think bruce lee was one of the key people that help shape mma. He was the kind of fighter that wanted to innovate martial arts.

I don't know, most TKD guys I met are quite legit. Maybe because all TKD school where I live train for the national tournament where the state is looking for candidates for the international competitions. You can't bs your way in a national association when the state is looking for potential gold medalists. The same thing applied for karate.

@@minhducnguyen9276 I actually think the biggest issue with TKD is that hyper emphasis on the sport aspect. WTF and some of the ITF splinter bodies have adopted rules and formats that pretty much make it useless as a form of self-defense (which is what a lot of people join to learn) at most dojangs. There are some that teach the real deal, to be sure (even some WTF-affiliated dojangs teach combat oriented sparring in the studio and focus less on sport) but if sparring is oriented to the competition rules, you have point breaks, no punches to the face (the best litmus test for a practical striking martial art), and an effectively lower contact level due to all the gear. Look at Olympic TKD, its basically leg-fencing at this point One body that is fairly small but i think is probably the best to go with for practical sparring is USTF. They have a very combat/self-defense oriented curriculum with knockout sparring and even incorporates some grappling

The one true Tae Kwondo is the North korean hard style not taught in America.

​@@getawaydreamer2724 I spent numerous years at an ITF club that said the same thing. There are way too many clubs who claim their style is the "one true" style. It becomes a cult-like mantra.

@@mck24601 Yes you are right. I actually just realized my wording was incorrect. No problem I stand corrected here. I was trying to convey “Hard style” Tae Kwondo that is being taught internationally from small not well known Dojo’s in South Korea. That pre-date the Korean War. Either way, People should just pick a style and roll with it. So many ways to take your personal skill to the next level. Less to do with the art and more with the individual.

Could be. I also think some people with big egos thrive in such culture and develop it further.

Good day. I am from Split in Croatia. There is one new Aikido club named "Oni Aikido". I never see this kind of Aikido practice. They compete in Team MMA and Battle of the Nation. The also challenge other martial arts clubs to fight against them such as Wing Chung, Aikido, Karate, Boxing, Judo,...... Is that Aikido or not. Please can you help me with you opinion.