My first thought when it comes to the interpretation of the Geirrod story is basically this. Loki: So, just checking. You want me to bring *checks notes* the Jotunslayer to your court, Mr. *checks notes* Jotun. Geirrod: Without the hammer or girdle. Loki: If you think that’ll matter.
Reminds me of some warhammer lore actually, when Conrad effectively disenchants Vulkans magic hammer believing he has defeated his brother, only for Vulkan to respond "You forget my brother, it's is still a hammer", proceeding to beat the shit out of him
they're worshiping the right god. When people worship the god Loki, well, the god Loki is the god of mischief, he's the trickster god, he represents imperfection. When Christians worship the god, God, or otherwise known as Yahweh or "Jehova," is the god of perfection, he is described as benevolent, omnipotent, divine, etc. On the other side of the coin, the dark lord, the anti-Christ, aka Satan, Beelzebub, the devil, otherwise known as "Lucifer," is described as a power hungry deity of pure evil, a deceiver who would side with no one else but himself, his demon followers, and power in hell. Hell too, is a kingdom of fascistic control, fascistic control through pain, misery, bondage, and suffering. Technically also a kingdom of perfection, only a ruthless "ruled with an iron fist" perfection, similar to the benevolent kingdom of fascistic control, that of heaven. But humanities nature is neither the basis of pure evil, nor divinity, but imperfection. People are imperfect by definition so the god the general public should be worshiping should've been Loki all along. Either that or scrap nonsense fairy tales either way, either Lokian and Viking-ish, or superstitious.
during the last chapter, when you were describing how Loki is always bound to His words, something occurred to me. He's a God of *bindings.* all kinds of bindings. oaths, literal chains, spiderwebs, the coils of a snake, the clutches of death, these themes are echoed in His children as much as in Him. Loki is consistently making oaths, following through, and ensuring that the domains of His children are never treaded upon (for example His offense at Baldr being unkillable)
Yeah, I always saw Loki as a god of accountability, the consequences of one's actions, and punishment of Hubris, including his own, but the god of binding angle tracks pretty well too.
If I remember correctly, the name Loki is similar to a word meaning knot or a loop. He also created the fishing net as well. Indeed, *god of bindings* works perfectly as a title. He is also a god of in between, a giant's son in Asgard, travelling easily between realms (Sleipnir) and having children who work in a realm of their own (Jörmungandr's ocean and Hel's Helheim). He is a connection between different aspects. God of connections?
You mention “scholars” and their opinions regarding these myths as if you aren’t one yourself, good Sir! You conduct, what seems to be, thorough academic research, you cite your sources, and you take all of this research and convert it into something digestible and enjoyable for everyone. Phenomenal work with everything you create! I cannot wait to see what other snapshots of history Ocean the Scholar can reveal!
I don't think it's hyperbole at all to count Ocean as one of the best heathen scholars, not only on RU-vid, but in any medium. The majority of books being published on the subject have a fraction of the research and analysis Ocean puts into each of his subjects, with the exceptions being the books he cites, generally written by archaeologists, anthropologists, and others with relevant doctorates. Ocean is an unparalleled boon to modern heathens.
@@OceanKeltoireplying to you here because its where youre most likely to see it. Take a look at the 14th century play Lokrur (part of a Rimir cycle) where Lodur and Lopt (cognate to German "Luft") are both used interchangeably to Loki. Its an expounded form of the Uthgarda loki myth and Mimirsbrunner did just publish a great translation. This play would only be around 100 years older than the Poetic Edda, and likley draws upon the exact same oral history.
To my mind, this puts Loki very much as a Solver of Problems. Regardless of whose fault may have caused issues plaguing the Gods, Loki goes out of his way to ensure that there is a solution that satisfies everyone involved. So much so, that the Gods look to him when problems arise.
The whole Loki is “an enemy of the gods” thing is really strange to me given that we have an entire poem of Odin just blasting his son from across a river for some reason. And yet no one says that Thor and Odin can’t share an altar because they’re “enemies”. I just find the idea of Loki as the sole agent of discord amongst the gods to be a pretty disingenuous look at the texts.
Ironically it was through Lucifer that I met Loki with the two of them claiming to be aspects of one another. (Since both are referred to as the "bringer of light" in their respective pantheons and both the names deriving from the old Indo-European word "Leuk" which means "flash of light".) With that said though I was rather surprised to find out that Loki and Odin get along surprisingly well when I got more involved in my ancestral pantheon. I think Loki does have an adversarial aspect but I also think there is more to him than just being the "Norse Satan".
So essentially “Loki” is ‘Yakub’ in Islam… the creator of the devil. Otherwise known as the Christian ‘Jacob’ that “wrestled with God” in the Old Testament.
@@EyeSmiteTheeI mean, not really no, Loki has children that show darker aspects of life for sure, but not ones that are downright evil. Hel is a kind caretaker of the dead, jormungänder is a protector of nature and the natural world, and Fenrir is a breaker of chains for those unfairly bound. As far as I know there are no redeeming qualities associated with anything demonic in Christian lore.
I think I've watched this at least 3 times now, and I don't know if I'll ever stop. To have all of these stories with the variations across different authors laid out and picked apart in one place is a massive boon to Lokeans and Loki arguments everywhere. You worked so hard on this for so long, and it shows. It's one of many gems on your channel, but it's probably my favorite thus far.
Loki was the first deity I opened a relationship with after leaving Christianity. He has provided so much for me. It's beautiful and heartwarming at least that you have put so much time and care into putting out the proper respect he deserves ❤
No mention of Loki as the giver of gifts? In reference to Loki being responsible for Baldr's not riding anymore, I had this hilarious image of Bugs Bunny Loki having a lost story where he tricks Baldr into vowing never to ride another horse, and so he spends the rest of his days inconvenienced because he has to walk everywhere.
Loki the gift-giver is definitely something to take away from the story about the creation of Mjolnir. Sometimes when I make these videos I feel like something is hinted at sufficiently, but this would have been a good thing to actively explore a little deeper. Unfortunately, there's a ton of little nuances about Loki that I wasn't able to include or dive deep enough into with this video. But I also think that I'll be making more Loki content.
Thank you so much for this video! Honestly, most of the objections towards Loki and protestations against the worship of him and his children feels like so much special pleading. My familiarity with Loki comes mostly from positive folklore stories from my childhood where he is often the companion of Thor and Odin. It was wild to me to find out when I became Heathen that he’s such a controversial figure. I’m so glad that you point out the post-Christianization of these myths, and it’s surprising to me that more modern practitioners don’t take that into account when demonizing Loki. It just seems to obvious what’s occurring here. I know this video took a monumental amount of effort to make, but rest assured it is appreciated. Thanks again!
The role as a potential creator of Midgard will always be one of my favorite associations with Loki. Also his devotion to his words. Beautiful video ocean! As a lokean I salute you, sir. 🫡
The neutral stories of Loki really are my favorites. They illustrate the aspects of balance and honor, as well as the fallibility of the gods so well, whether we are talking about Loki themselves or any of the others. My most important lessons have arisen from those stories.
In conclusion: While I don't personally consider myself a Lokean, I do give him space within my hearth cult, to enough of a degree that the kennings "Breaking Stone" and "Bane of Fools" have cropped up of their own volition. Both represent an aspect I consider often understated in discussions around Loki: specifically, his propensity to humble those who see themselves as above reproach or consequence, often in rather spectacular and poetic fashion. I think there's something to be said there about being mindful of our own hubris, while also having the confidence to stand against the grain or even actively subvert ill-deserved standing or misdeeds.
I'm not a Heathen particularly, but have an interest in Norse mythology and practice on my Pagan learning - and recently have had Loki come into my practice (acting through syncretism with Mercury). And the warmth bringing him into my alter space has brought had been wonderful. I'm really excited to get such a long video from you on Loki and super bummed to hear the Heathen communities and gatherings would be pretty unwelcoming to my work with him.
It's an unfortunate aspect of Heathenry. Personally, I find that if an organization has a Loki ban, they likely have some other queerphobic beliefs. It's not a one to one, but it's certainly a strong trend. Something to look out for if you ever do start seeking out a Heathen gathering.
its an experience i have that most communities ive tried to enter as a lokean have been largely unwelcoming. i take it as a red flag, and i work better on my own anyway. it would be nice to have a kindred, but i know if they cannot respect even the gods they dont like, they wont respect queer ol' me even if they claim they will.
I'm a Lokean and have been since I was about 16. I always felt that Loki spoke to me more than the rest of the pantheon. It could be how spicy he is lol. I am only a few minutes into the video but I am so looking to sinking my teeth into this video. Thankings, Ocean. This they appreciates you. 😊 OMG Thank you! This video was perfect! Need to show it to everyone. ❤
@@OceanKeltoi currently watching it again with the hubby. Hoping to convert from atheism by awesomeness lol. I kid, but honestly if any faith would fit my other half, it's being a Lokean heathen.
One thing i love about this video is the character summary at the end. I struggle with truly understanding the petsonalities of the gods and this definitely helped my understanding of what Loki's character represents. The type of individual he was. And now I plan to add Loki to my practice
One thing that got brought up that I think modern people might miss are the Trenchers in the Myth between Loki and Logi. While Trenchers evolved to the wooden one like Ocean showed, during the middle ages, Trenchers where made of bread. Rather hard and often stale bread I believe. Trenchers could be eaten since they were bread but IIRC often weren't. So a bit of cultural context. I remember reading before that Norway had men in the king's household staff in the medieval area called Trenchermen or trencher swain. Not sure how that changes the myth or not. but thought it is a neat cultural idea to bring up that probably would be known to the Skalds.
Oh thank you so much Ocean!! I have been a lokean since I was very young. My father loved norse mythology, and because of my odd behavior, he called me Loki one day as I was being rather mischievous, I had no Idea who that was, so my Dad told me to do some research. That was the beginning of my love for the greatest God. Amazing tales and adventures. It's so amazing to see you do a full, 1 hour video, all on explaining Loki to everyone. Fantastic job Ocean, again, thank you so much!!
I'm glad you found my work on behalf of the Troth useful. You certainly cited it in your Mystic South paper, as well as here. The Troth's own views have indeed undergone considerable evolution over the past twenty years that I've been affiliated with the organization, possibly not as swiftly as some would like, but that's just the nature of a large organization. Lauren Crow deserves much credit for leading the Troth through our latest policy changes, and I support her wholeheartedly.
A supplementary thought I'm having in listening to the telling of Thor's showdown with Geirrod's forces: if these particular Jötnar were conspiring against him, it seems that delivering them a monkey's paw situation in which they *believe* they could overpower Thor could even be construed as Loki acting as the *downfall* of the plot, while still preserving the integrity of the letter of his word. Slippery, but arguably still Good Guy Loki.
I want to make a huge thank you to you Ocean Keltoi for making this Loki Video. While I have said very many of the same, you did what at the time I could not, and provided ample evidence to support the arguments I have had. I have been fighting on my own for the last few years against the Lokean Hate, and I really appreciate you.
*Loki strolls back into Asgard with an eight-legged foal in tow* Thor, "Loki, what the f*** is that!?" Loki, "That's my boy, Sleipnir." Thor, "You're... his dad?" Loki, "His mother." Freya pops out from a corner, "I told y'all about him."
Before today I would've had a tough time picking a favorite video of yours. As of today I now have one clear winner. Thank you so much for this, Ocean! It's great
What a Yuletide blessing this video is! Thank you so much for all the hard work you put into it! I could never understand the aversion to Loki and how he's made out to be the bad one. The world needs a bit more Loki, I think.
@@crushinnihilism I really believe this. It's no coincidence that so many people worldwide have attracted Loki's attention. He's building the resistance
As someone who has recognized Loki as a deity with their hand on aspects of my life as long as I've recognized Odin, I treasure this breakdown. While I've been hesitant to fully bring them into my praxis and hearth cult, I've been reconsidering that stance, and never felt hostile to the idea of doing so. A lot changed for me when i was able to stop lamenting certain ill fortune, and instead see Loki as possibly stirring the pot with a puckish smile, and see that things could turn around in a way that I didn't expect. It could be worth my while to open up the gifting cycle to them. Thank you, Ocean, for your hard work and dedication on this beast of a video. I'm glad to finally see it.
@@darklyripley6138 yes, and I don't believe you care about having a good faith discussion about it, given your flippant and antagonistic tone. Do you walk into churches and synagogues and shit on their beliefs? Or do you think pagans are just easier targets? Honestly, I'm not very interested in engaging with you further, because I don't know what you hope to achieve. Maybe someone else will waste more time on you.
It may be an hour and 20 minute video but your content is always fascinating, well made, informative and entertaining and I always come away with a better understanding of Norse paganism, history and spirituality thank you for the content Ocean 🌊
Your video quality is always top-notch. I really appreciate your thorough scholarship AND obvious genuine love for the subject. Excited to watch this one!
you're such an amazing story teller I could listen to this all day, thank you ocean for another awesome video and for how much work you put in for this video.
I was just watching this with breakfast and assumed it'd be like 20-30 min, now I'm 45 min in??? Super excited for another long-form vid and for a subject that I really needed more help understanding, thanks! It's fantastic so far.
As a follower of Fenrir I have to say, you really nailed it with why I was drawn to Fenrir. Also, he is just the goodest boy and I refuse to hear otherwise.
@@darklyripley6138 I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if you're referring to belief in the gods, most of this comment section would say yes. If you're referring to mythical literalism, i.e., the gods literally did what is written about them in the myths, most of us would say no. That's more often a hallmark of Christianity, taking the Bible as an infallible historical account. The gods are with us, but their myths give us an idea of their character rather than their literal actions.
@@milesfromnowhere1985 So you view these gods as fictional characters and/or archetypes? They’re obviously not real. So if you view them as just archetypes to learn from and identify with, what separates Loki from the hair and tortoise? You can learn and identify with both. So why do you buy into the former?
@@darklyripley6138 I believe they are real gods who have fictional stories told about them and passed down to us. What do you mean they "obviously" aren't real? My experience, and the experiences of many here, have led me to believe in the gods. If you're curious about polytheistic belief, Ocean has many videos outlining how and why someone would believe in the gods, including debates with both Christians and atheists. I can post some links to them if you like, but they're easy to find on this channel.
Celtic pagan here. I love hearing these videos. Glad to see you are still making them, they mean a lot to me and my practice even if we worship different gods.
Gods damned, so many wonderful puns and even more great information!!! Loving this video and adding some books to my reading list!!! Thanks a million for the details Ocean!!
I'm excited to see this video, and to see fellow followers of Loki! I did work with dragons before Loki, but Loki was the first (for lack of a better way to describe) more humanity-adjacent deity I could connect to. I was very skeptical and wary of many things, but Loki was rather understanding of that and kept trying to reach me and connect with me through it. Thank you Loki, for being in my life ❤
@@OceanKeltoi I enjoyed the video very much, just finished it. I really needed that message to be myself unapologetically. Thank you Ocean Keltoi, you've really helped me on my journey.
ocean! I’m only a third of the way through but I have to go ahead and leave a comment 😭 thank you so much for this video!! it’s not easy being Lokean out here, but I am so grateful to have scholars/leaders like you out here inspiring change in the community. btw, the division and controversy around Loki has always been so funny to me-even today, this dude is sowing chaos 😂 Edit: I have officially watched the full thing and will be watching a second time with my partner later this evening! This is such an incredible video, from beginning to end! I especially loved the portion at the end where you talked about the values of Lokeans-self-reflection and the righting of your wrongs are two of the most important values I carry as a Lokean, so you are SPOT ON! I will be recommending and spreading this video like wildfire!
1:19:09 Oddly enough I live by that, taking personal responsibility is a hard line to live by one that is both honorable and for some conflictive. This one of the many reasons I include Loki in my hearth gods and my altar, because they are an active part of my life by lessons that they faced and by their general comedic way of handling conflicting situations.
Loki's commitment to the literal words that he and others have promised reminds me a lot of the Irish Sidhe (fairies, the good neighbors, etc). If you say you're going to do something for or with them, they will hold you to your literal word, and they do likewise. That's why most folks that I'm aware of who work with the Sidhe will tell others to avoid it if possible. 😁
I thought the same thing also because of how Loki creatively crafts the oaths to his benefit. The Sidhe are master negotiators and it's commonly known that humans better be very specific in any agreements they make with the good neighbors. I think it takes a ton of intelligence and creativity to create an ironclad oath with loopholes.
Loki has definitely been one of the gods I’ve struggled with a lot over my heathen journey of about a decade now, excited for what is sure to be a comprehensive deep dive into his myths!
I remember my first time encountering Loki's image in Age of Mythology, where he's drawn very evil looking, especially compared to the 8 other Norse, Greek and Egyptian gods. I'm really glad that the modern age is finally resuscitating his image and showing that he's so much more than "Norse Satan".
I literally got kicked out of a heathen group because I tried to talk to someone about Lokeans and his viewed on Lokeans. He didn’t have good views, called me a Tom Hiddleston worshipper and not a true Norse pagan. Lol
I haven't watched yet, I only just saw this, but noticing the length of this: please enjoy a pleasurable break. You deserve one after all you must've put into this!
Thank you for this great video! Loki is such a fantastic figure in the lore, and having this deep dive into his story is wonderful. I believe this is one of those videos that is going to change some minds and alter the course of Heathenry in the future. Well done and congratulations. This is phenomenal.
The points that @ocean keltoi makes are not new, many of us Lokeans have had to become well versed apologists from our dealings with other heathens, but having a big chunk of the evidence here in one place, with citations, from a generally respected member of the community that I feel most would consider neutral in the matter, I do think could start to turn the tide and open up some hearts and minds.
Thank you for spending so much time compiling all the research and information. Your work is appreciated and gives us all more to think, read and explore more for ourselves.
This video my spouse needs to watch. The best label if any for my spouse is simply an Ecletic Lokean. Mainly due to them (I would view Loki in modern context as He/Them) being a God of changes and transfiguration, and a God of protecting orphans and embracing chosen family. A more controversial but not unfounded view. The oath as one. Again as a somewhat outsider I do not have much personal gnostic experiences of him other than as a trickster but finder of lost things. I am glad you shown more light on Loki for me and my spouse and I can share more knowledge of their faith.
I can literally see my beloved god slouching back in a chair, feet propped up on the table, and snacking on popcorn and cinnamon whiskey, while watching this video with a sly grin.
@@gracecarpinter8623 And also him enjoying people talking about him for thousands of years, without ever being able to put the beautiful complexity that he is into one box. I think, it amuses him, and he has a soft spot for those of us who don't even try.
This is my second time coming back to this video so far. I can definitely tell it is going to be in my top favorites. Thank you for giving such an amazing summary to the first god I've ever felt a connection to ❤ Hail Loki!
This Lokean was made exceptionally happy with this well researched and thorough analysis! Thank you for speaking up for our favorite Bugs Bunny god and clearing up so many misconceptions.
