Why is Monstrous Infantry So Terrible? 

Monstrous infantry is morale for the player. I don't care if they are good or not if they make me happy. I will always have a single lord with all monsters. Is it effective? No. But it is fun.

See when i try to stop charges with my bloated corpses i lose the unit i'm trying to protect. I feel like i'm doing something wrong here but i can't quite put my finger on it...

Funny enough this is how Kroxigor's are supposed to function, both in TT and in Lore. They nest in units of skink infantry and the two fight in tandem with the skinks being small and agile enough to move around the larger kroxigors and use their size and reach as protection.

Treekin are an interesting semi-exception in that you don't need to embed them in another infantry unit. They are so tanky you can use them as a frontline holding unit all on their own, so long as your opponent doesn't bring a bunch of fire damage.

Use them like a support unit... Hopefully Ogres will have a more diverse role dispersion

Me an Empire Player: The hell is a Monster Unit?

Monstrous infantry punishes the shit out of a SEM overextending. They get their value FAST against a landed phoenix, for example Also, a proper surround makes it hard for the enemy to recover their Lord/SEM

Crypt horrors are my mainline when facing dwarves as vampire counts. The fight is almost impossible without them early game...

In campaign they are great if massed, even Trolls (Stone Trolls to be specific) Kroxy boys, and most others do rather decent. Their main issue is cost and regen or recovery after battle which is often quite high unless you get lords with something like 50-100% casualty replenishment. Multiplayer cannot say much as I barely play that.

I find they are best used to route heroes and lords. Especially on higher difficulties when your own lord or heroes can't just solo this role themselves. They also tend to pin them down which is always useful. There are some exceptions though, like rat ogres which as you said are more like cavalry.

Minotaurs and Vargheists (if you count them as monstrous infantry) as well as Ushabti are bloody good. I forgot about Stone trolls this guys are basically Berserkers if you play them with Grom.

“Monstrous infantry are more like halberd, but not really” -big ass sneks “i have no such weaknesses”

This really depends on what difficulty you’re playing on. On Normal, go nuts with your units, so long as you pick the engagement they were designed for, you’ll do alright so long as you’re not grossly outclassed. On very hard or legendary, you better have those boys tricked out with a Legendary lord that supports them with ridiculous stats, otherwise they are a pincushion for any ranged units the ai have.

If you take all of Throggs abilities then Norscan frost trolls make a pretty good stack in campaign. I used them as my emergency 'have to win this battle' button and nothing the AI threw at them could withstand just becoming blob and attacking whatever was in front of them.

I find the utility of fear / terror in several match ups end up being the deciding factor for monstrous infantry - and because its not a single model like some single entity monsters I feel like they are useful in several other match ups

So impressive how savent slaves + 2 rat ogres manage to stop à saurian!! 😳😳 Great content as usual!!

I always viewed monstruos infantry as a entity/total health ratio. Basically yea they do get punished and have mass but i dont care about it, i need it to not lose models, therefore still being useful at the end of a battle just as they were at the start (because they lost hp not models). But yeah, there are much more viable options unfortunatly which is a shame because some of the coolest models in the game are on monstruos infantry.

Nakai and his kroxigor boys:" You can't tell me how to pick my infantry choices!"

Super helpful bro. I've been going crazy trying to understand for a hot minute now

Massed monstrous infantry in campaign are actually pretty good. It can work in multiplayer too. It lets you drop vortexes and wind spells in more ideal positions without worrying about friendly fire, because the damage monstrous infantry takes is negligible, but infantry/cav gets wrecked. They can also pack a lot more power into a much smaller area than infantry can. When you fit 3 units of monstrous infantry into the space of 1 infantry unit, with the monstrous infantry throwing infantry around so they can't even hit back (large infantry have better reach as well). The main issue with monstrous infantry is the damage it takes from missile units, as the bodies of monstrous infantry are so large. Even missiles with poor accuracy generally hit them with even higher accuracy than against infantry.

BUH BIGGA IS BETTA, AN MORE IS BETTA. DAT MEANS MORE BIG BIG 'UNS IS BETTA! DA BOSS SEZ SO!

My favorite combo is the same combo I used in the late 90s… Kroxogors and Saurus Warriors :)

Trolls standing in a bunch of goblins are very effective. Tanky, quite killy and fun.

So what is it with kroxigors being regularly recommended vs DW and feeling trash. Should they be used as mass to push the backline? I feel mistake there is not flank-ovetloading and spreading them too thin. Or should they be cycle charging. Or left at home.

Stone trolls and minotaurs are amazing. They are not meant to fight alone but as a mass.

My dream build is a line of elite units backed by chaos spawn. The simbioses is amazing

Been having a pretty good time with Kroxigors and Saurus in my latest campaign. Of course, it's on normal difficulty, and it's no doomstack, but still pretty ok and fun.

One of the Dynasty Lords for the TK offers bonuses to Ushabti, give him a full stack of them and they can mulch basically anything. Though a few Great Bows are helpful for monsters.

Reason why I would love to see some form of Monstrous infantry rune golems for Dwarfs. 50ish speed, low MA, low CB, but high armor and mass with maybe some decent AP. Gives them a way to catch infantry other than slayers (but with a low offensive power) but more importantly a way to counter play chariots other than just missiles. I do think this type of unit would also open up more playstyles for the Dwarfs if they have a unit that can potentially contest enemy backline, albeit slow by cav/skirmisher standards. A man can dream, at least.

My one favorite ways to play as GS is half the army or black ors/orc boys with stone trolls. I order them into one line and charge the enemy. Trolls break the enemy line with charge while orcs charge in second, filling the rank with trolls and stomping the disorginazed enemy squads.

basically they are goon squads. I think Aspiring Champions are like Monstrous infantry right ? I like to roleplay with Archaon having Aspiring Champions as personal bodyguards, helping him when he is ganged up, and help infantry line to break up any resistance they have

Honestly? Monstrous Infantry makes up more than it's weight in gold, you just have to use them right: 1. AOE Damage (they have a cleaving effect, they hit harder and spread damage out more effectively). 2. Disruption (being knocked back, sent flying on impact and being hit). 3. Tanking ( Soaking up Damage for other Units, being able to provide cover from missiles.) 4. Mobility (Ever seen the speed of Skinwolves/Trolls/Ushabti? Good stuff. Kroxigors have less speed but better defenses. Ogre's will most likely be similar to Kroxigors but hit a little harder, have a little less defense on standard unbuffed variants).

You can make some good doom stacks with stone trolls. Legend of total war has a video on it.

If their role is the same as halberds, halberds are the better option due to their cost. In which case, monstrous infantry are still useless due to cost-effectiveness

In campaign the fav monstrous infantry I've used are Prometheans and Fimir. Both are an amazing backbone for your army. With Throgg you can some v high stats for all the monstrous infantry types. So you have an army of skin wolves, ice trolls and fimir stacked on like 4 champs +4 hunters. It's v fun and pretty effective. I think monstrous infantry are my fav unit archetype because they just keep winning if you manage engagement. As long as 2 monsters units are ganging up on any other you tend to win.

When it comes down to it, basically all monstrous infantry is close to twice as squishy as they should be. They problem with them is that they melt before they can come anywhere close to being valuable, because they can be attack by more models at once. Plus the whole issue with being arrow magnets. Id like to see a nice rebalance that more or less doubles the hitpoints of monstrous infantry, doubles the damage done by handguns, and multiplies the current effect of the charge bonus by like x10 in current balance, charges with monsters or cavalry both hit like a wet noodle. Sorry, but a rear charge into a non-elite unit from shock cavalry or monsters should basically melt the unit. Currently you’re liable to lose half your cavalry in melee with archers.

This misses a big advantage of monstrous infantry which is single unit damage. Generally when looking at unit damage comparisons you can multiply the damage they do (figuring in attack rating) by the length of the line or number of units. But many heroes and lords not on riding large mounts have limited numbers of units that can surround them. Monstrous infantry can get roughly the same number of units around a lord or hero as regular infantry or cavalry. But tend to hit a lot harder per unit and tend to spread damage around and not lose units like infantry do. So hold your monstrous infantry behind your line until the enemy melee lord tar pits themselves. Then chop them down with your trolls.

Wait do most people not mix stone Trolls into there front line? I've always done that.

Thank you. Good to know. I do like me a stone troll surprise for my enemy. Might as well use them correctly.

Was that clip of the charge onto the goblins done with the cav changes in place? I'd like to see that done with all the different variables changed around because if it was done with the cav changes then I think the reason they took so little damage was because impact damage has been severely nerfed by the cav changes and not necessarily because of the trolls being there. The trolls certainly stop the cav from punching through the unit of goblins though and then trade back vs the cav but that low damage highlight you made might not be caused by what you think.

everything is bad if its melee in total war... especially if its slow and cant retreat to use its charge attack again. that's due to the difficulty. the higher it is the less effective your melee infantry is. ranged attacks are not affected by this, making them a superior choice. what also kinda work are single entities. they have such high damage output, they can still dash out their damage, they are just a bit more fragile on higher difficulties.

Then you get minataurs which are just good as a frontline unit and tear through anything you send them at. They plus ghorgons won me my first very hard beastmen campaign

Grom and unbreakable stone trolls in campaign is really strong even on legendary

Mainly Monsterous Infantry issues mostly boil around more entities attacking them then they can dish out and missles. Their health pools makes them lose models fast and hence lose effectiveness faster than an SEM. Hopefully with wounds with SEM might balance that.

Every model interacts with others/has a hitbox too. Monstrous infantry usually hits more models at once, and can disrupt formations. Kroxigors+skinks is a perfect example of using them as support. But if the monstrous infantry is in the middle of an ocean of non-skirimish-formation models, they won't do much. And then there's the mass which this video covers :)

Nobody uses an MBT’s to charge the battle. Actually, cavalry have always been on the sides. Have there been some where cavalry charged at the front and inf at the sides?

And then you have Minotaurs, which basically tear right through pretty much anything thrown at them, regardless of variant or what is thrown at them, except maybe single entity giant monsters.

Enticity, plz, say, how to controll big monsters with antilarge like PG. When ever i played mp big units are running away from my halberds.

I use monster units as heavy weights, as a lizardman army, I use them as early game chargers, or in a way I put them up front first and have basic infantry behind, of course do not expect monster infantry to hold their own against spears, but monsters overall make for great heavy supports against the likes of cavalry, yes a bit counter productive sure but some cavalry or elite infantry units don't seem to get back up after taking a few whacks. Of course some monsters are worse than others specifically trolls which have terrible leaderships.

monstrous infantry are a good counter to elite units that get healing as well since they can most of the time 1 shot or 2 shot them, on top of the aoe damage they do, just make sure you put a weak unit with the so they take less damage.

Was there any change in the latest update? Trolls are good carry early/mid game

Great guide!

its the number of entities IMO. If the largest unit went from 18 to 24 on Ultra Sizes, they would perform the way they should and be quite effective. In straight up melee they are good, specially if you add your regular infantry. What fucks them are missiles. Against certain Races its completely unviable to bring Monstrous Infantry, they would get ripped to shreds before they actually charge in.

i do this but i didnt know why. thank you

Idk my kroxigors consistently get massive damage value when stacked on top of infantry

I think Sepulchral Stalkers are the most appropriate for this use.

How will this work with the ogre kingdoms, whose roster is predominantly monstrous infantry?

The skinwolf card look like sharkpeople to me.

legend b like: "skaven voice" NO NO MONSTROUS BADBAD MEME USE WARPSTONE MORE CHEESE

Why monstrous infantry is used? Cause they are cool.

Thanks for the vid!

Actually as a mostly and mainly Greenskins player (single/Legendary) I use 4-6 Stone trolls units + 1 or 2 units of River trolls a lot. In many types of roles, not just support. I dont know much about other monstrous units but these are not bad and pretty versatile ... if you know what they are capable of.

The worst lord in the game is Nakai. CA had the chance to boost Kroxigors and allow you to create this amazing doo stack but he is actually probably the worst lord choice for them.

Them being "good" at a incredibly specific part of the game doesnt make them good, it's the opposite - ogre kingdoms will be all monstrous infantry and they will not carry their weight or gold value.

I remember the days when spamming monstrous infantry in MP was meta

Tell that to my tourox campaign all minotaur all the time baby

Were people not using monstrous infantry as monsters? They are big walls to make a fort with. I mean they are huge targets of course they die fast

I thought they’re bugged by having way too much health

why waste money for that when you can buy strong charge def against all units for much cheaper?

I see you used the same mod as me to test things :)

Throgg-buffed Ice Trolls are a doomstack.

Sounds to me like they need to rethink monsters in general. Its very boring when some dudes with long sticks counter every fun unit in the game.

won't protect from arrow to the face tho.

No one says they’re bad in multiplayer but in campaign everyone hates them (especially on very hard and legendary)

I had no idea that people consider monstrous infantry to be bad. Their mass seemed to be so obviously their key strength to me. Mass control is the key to winning games!

omfg... i am so glad this got recommended. ima subscribe if this is what you got for sure

Sooo.. can I have frontline of Goblins and Trolls yes or no

Monsterous infantry lose their impact as the game's unit scale goes up. And idk about competitive play but in campaign certain Monsterous Infantry as still go to units for me. And maybe it's my own recognition of them from tabletop but i always used Monsterous infantry as "one off" units meant to counter particular enemy units that would otherwise fuckup my entire army list, then have them help with the flanking maneuvers. Because Warhammer Fantasy's unit tier system typically put Monsterous infantry on the same tier as higher end units meaning you'd by default be taking fewer of them. I guess i got go see where they actually shined, and where the question of "Monsterous infantry vs Cannonball" (hint cannonball) really stood. There's a reason Ogres had Gnoblars, Monsterous Infantry were always a bad unit for straight on unit, and while their flanking value from tabletop didn't exactly carry over because the moral/leadership systems are fairly different between the games, in nearly every other respect the purpose of Monsterous infantry carried over fairly well. Because a Troll unit charging the side of a cav unit or counter-charging into the rear of cav locking them in and denying cycle charges will easily do you better than having them wade into a infantry block.

if u hv Minotaurs, u can just simplypunch through everything LOL

Dunno, minotaur blobs seem damn near unstoppable

I generally use monstrous infantry to go and screw up enemy archers or to just cause chaos behind enemy lines. They are really good if you use them to flank, like cavalry. They also can be used to bolster your front lines. However, honestly this all depends on the type of monstrous infantry you are using.

Great video

Me on my 128th empire campaign: ah yes those things I kill with pointy lads

Great video!

So should you not stack units at all?

And then campaign buffed Ushabti+necrotect go brrrrrrrrrrrrr

People think anything that doesn't stand there and kill anything without moving their mouse sucks

Mhm not agree. Minotaurs are Killermachines and (Wirh buffs) tanks. You must use Monsters in a wise way and tactical.

Plz tell me mode name with this map

This makes me wonder about Ogres

Thats the Point, i simply got 0 need for Monstrous Infantry in 90% of all Armys.... its the same as with Cavalry or any Kind of High Tier Meele Infantry in Generall.... There are Reasons why Elves, Skaven and a lot of other as Doom Stacks, just Spam: Archer Armys, Weapon Teams or Artillery Army´s. Ranged Supperiority is just way to good in the Game and renders nearly everything else except some Meat Shields useless xD

They should destroy infantry but they just do like 20% dmg and then low leadership sinks in. Trolls are noted for being a pain in the butt to kill lorewise but in this game they function as cavalry,because they flee and then you have to throw them again at the enemy. ???

is this the guy with the ladder

Kind of hoping monstrous infantry get some sort of rework in WH3 for the ogre kingdoms. Otherwise their roster could seriously suck in MP and campaign.

me thinking about warhammer 3 coming out and how almost all of the ogres roster is monstrous infantry.

Or I could just use spears/halberds as my frontline and use ranged weapons, artillery, magic and single-entity capital-K Killers to do actual damage. Honestly the list of times where this mass resistance benefit will really matter is small, and mostly confined to multiplayer. There are notable exceptions - Stone Trolls and Minotaurs are just all around solid - but most monstrous infantry are just not going to do what you want as well or efficiently as other options in TW:W2. Sure you can make them work, and I regularly do because they’re cool, on Normal but barring Minotaurs they require much more shepherding than any other unit type save light cav due to their disadvantages, namely size, cost and recruit time. Hopefully something changes in 3.

minotaurs are pretty good tho. but i mainly use them because i like their models 🐂🐃

My conclusion as a exclusive single-player is that I could use monstrous infantry as support, or I could go with a better unit such as a ranged option or a single-entity and then stack that to oblivion. While this won't always be the cost-effective, I need a stack that I can use to plough through AI cheats and spamstacks and that's what matters unless your playing a spamstack faction yourself. Now when I do use monstrous infantry, I use them only in doomstacks i.e. Tauras with minos, Wurzag with Trolls etc. tldr; Build your army well with hero/lord effects or just choose a stronger unit than monstrous infantry.

I would much rather have dread saurian be a 1 only unit and have it buffed its so easy to wreck its day and it's the apex monster of the old world

What mod is that?