I like the burn mechanic the way it is, having the item gives robin many options such as extenders, and its one of his fastest projectile so the faster the burn the better
No the sword mechanic should still stay. Sure he is using a levin sword or whatever in smash, but using lightning sword attacks should still damage the sword like it does in the FE games
I'm a Robin main, the durability and the movement isn't really the main issue. The durability can be played around (and the item is really good for Robin), b reverse movement tech helps Robin's movement. IMO the main thing is that Robin's moves aren't more powerful than anyone else's. Levin sword is about the same strength as Roy sweet spot - and Roy has that always. Thunder is prone to being low profiled, thoron doesn't kill well for some reason, arc fire can be SDI'd really easily to prevent kill confirms, jab 2 is for some reason inconsistent which isn't great since Robin's jab kills. I would describe his power level at 80%-100%. Robin doesn't have big combo strings or cheesy kill confirms at 60 like other characters with weapon upgrades. My dream buff for Robin is that nintendo allows him to act out of Elwind 1, so he could Elwind across the stage and smack people with levin.
Yes! Jab 2 is so funky. I also think he would benefit immensely if they removed some other bits of jank, like his forward tilt hitbox not covering high/low, or his gear draining durability before hitboxes come out. Thoron also has that 35f of extra lag in the air for some reason.
don't forget about Nosferatu, Robin's down B. its literally the freest tome throw Robin has at all times. (since the heal usually isn't too worth, especially if against button mashers) provided he can keep the enemy away, its easy to use up and pick up to throw every time it comes back(or if he loses a stock before that then it reappears immediately) I deff wish Robin's arc fire projectile couldve been buffed so that weak jabs don't outright beat it cuz i remember back in smash 4 jabs couldn't easily beat projectiles there, compared to how easily the weakest jab can do that to weak projectiles in ult.
Levin sure looks more powerful than it actually is. I was surprised to see Up-air KO so late when I started playing Robin more. Funny that Corrin's Up-air is the exact opposite, it packs a punch while looking basic
I think the durability for his Levin Sword should've only decreased if the attack lands, especially since that's how it works in Fire Emblem: Attacks that miss the enemy unit don't use up any durability.
It would just be to broken. As someone who has always played Robin from time to time his sword is so powerful it’s kinda needed. You have so many other moves in your arsenal too that it doesn’t really matter and you still have a sword to use, it just doesn’t do a crazy amount of damage/knock back
I remember first picking them up early in Smash 4’s lifetime solely because I thought Robin’s design and moveset looked cool. Now he’s up there with my top-3 mains even now. (Yoshi at 1, and Dark Samus at 3.) Is Robin an easy character to play? Hell no. Does he have weaknesses? HELL yes. But dammit; it’s just fun playing as a mage, and landing his kill confirms are just too satisfying.
It's weird seeing Robin, debatably the single strongest unit in the entire Fire Emblem franchise alongside Sigurd, be reduced to such a mediocre fighter in Smash
Lore Wise, Ike is probably the strongest playable Unit, after his God buff at the end of the game. He's multi continental from scaling to the Final Boss. Robin would only be country Level after scaling to Grima
In both lore and gameplay, the lords of three houses (and byleth), but especially dimitri, are the best units in the entire series Plus, in lore dimitri LITERALLY has godlike strength
@@aglassofpurifiedwaterlastn1513 while dimitri and El are both ridiculous they take some time to get off the ground, and don't wholly trivialize their respective games quite as fast and consistently as Robin or Sigurd imo though the argument could be made they're around the same level too
As a Robin main I am really curious about this video as it’s something I’ve been wondering myself. And hey, this may help me play around their strengths and weaknesses more.
Same here, Robin's ability to force approaches at specific angles and mixup projectile timings is why I've started playing them a ton, but I'm ready to see what the negatives are so I can try to cover them better.
After watching, the video doesn't go over anything but the obvious, which saddens me. For example of something I know is lacking from the video, Robin's combo tools have abysmal framedata or range, requiring that you call out your opponent's option in advance to rack up damage, a playstyle that makes Robin seem extremely weak on first view. Once you break away from traditional combo thinking, you can use your tools to put on comparable damage per interaction off of a projectile or spike, but that still requires planning and knowledge.
Vars I swear to god literally every time you release a new character video. The character then got great results or perform well the next few days and week. When Ken video came out, Jahzzo brought back attention to the character at Summit. Lima and Bloom for Bayo at LTC and VCA. Smub for Ridley at LTC. Kameme with Sora and Niko Top 8 cloud. Give Robin a couple of days or week and we see what happens
Fun fact: Robin gains trip chance immunity after using thoron. Moves that typically have a chance to trip such as Rob dtilt and kirby dtilt have a nul chance after Robin uses their fully charged neutral B. Moves that force the slip effect unfortunately such as diddy bananna will still cause a trip.
@@trash-ken this is a gamechanger lol now I'll just use full thoron at the beginning of every fight for trip immunity for the rest of the stock. also sucks Robin doesn't have a trip; goodness knows it'd make bronze sword less useless...
Robin is easily my favorite character in the game. All of the awesome traps and setups of some other characters but with an ease of use not present with those others. All at the cost of those tools having a cooldown to juggle. I dig it.
I think it's mainly the weapon durability, thing is his moves are good but not really broken even without durability, but in a game where neutral is all about throwing out safe attacks constantly, hoping they hit, Durability becomes a massive problem
Two things come to mind: being slow and weapon durability Let me add: His slow movement is definitely a big weakness, but i think his weapon durability is what holding him back a lot. Conceptually, he's a character who has great moves only like half the time during battle. So when you're playing as Robin you sometimes have to restrict yourself just so his tomes/levin sword wont run out at the worst time, because if you did and coupled with his middling speed, he's a sitting duck. Not to mention that unlike his smash attacks or aerials the replace his levin sword with the bronze sword, his tomes dont have a compensation too, and he has an exploitable recovery which also runs out, and he has bad tilts...
@@N12015 I'm going to join in here and say honestly I feel like part of the problem is his moves don't feel so insanely good enough to be worth losing, with the exception of Arc Thunder
@@zephyrias Well yeah, but that's like saying Arthur, Vergil and Sentinel dominate in UMvC3. Like yeah Robin's a bit of an unusual pick but he's not unviably horrible and Aegis could realistically have Dr. Mario or Brawl Ganondorf as a partner and still come out on top.
I really like Robin design-wise, but good lord, I can't imagine playing them in such a harsh metagame. Robin definitely feels like the kind of character who can truly push their strengths to the fullest, but one bad move can cost them heavily, with a rather frustrating resource mechanic to micromanage on top of it.
I mained Robin in the early days of Smash 4 and I remember at my first tournament I was complimented by my opponent (or it might have been a spectator, I forget) after a friendly for being the only person they had seen use their Down B effectively.
As a fan of swordies I say that if I had to keep a limited number of FE characters in the next smash game Robin woulf be one of them. He is so unique in contrast with other swordfighters but his inconsistency really limits him. Maybe some big buffs such as spells not having limited uses (because only giving that to elwind woulf be a bit unfair), not wasting uses of the levin sword if it doesn't connect an attack and definitely the should give him more movility. I still think is a fun character to play PD: for when a video for Sephiroth?
I was really hoping to get Celica as an echo fighter with all tomes always being available, but costing HP to use as a reference to how magic works in gaiden/echoes, but sadly it was not meant to be
Robin is unique but unless he's severely buffed in the next edition, I'd rather he doesn't return. Hero as DLC feels a bit insulting when you see how much better he was than Robin for using "spells" on the mana system vs the durability system. And for having more speed and movement WTF.
@@mordeymay3739 That's a bit of a stretch LMAO. Fire spells. Thunder spells. Both recover with a wind spell too. Sword attacks form the majority of their aerial attacks. Spells use up a resource: either durability or mana. Hero's down special vs nosferatu is the only main difference. Combined with how hero's sword doesn't break either, unlike with Robin. Hero is also faster and has better mobility, simply by being a DLC 1 pack character.
I have been playing robin recently and he is pretty fun, he can be a decent character to show u to not just mash because ur weapons will be gone so u gotta play patiently
Robin is a sad case for me because Hero exists and is just a better version of them We got still subpar, but better mobility, spells that are still limited but offer a wider arrange of effects including bs stock steals at 50%, and while Hero doesn't have leven sword, he does have the critical hit chance and those hits kill just as early if not earlier rip
Hero and Robin both have different Archetypes. Robin is a trapper, while Hero doesn't really fit any role too much cause of their mechanics. If they were the same or one was better, Hero would also be able to trap just like Robin. Which is just not the case.
I have an Idea for something you could do if you run out of everybody/nobody plays. "Why (character) is under-represented" It would focus on characters like Greninja, or Falco, characters who are excellent choices, but don't have as big a representation as other top tiers
My balanced buff for Robin would just be to give him Hero Level Speed. That'd make him viable enough for people to want to play his style. My dream buff would be 1) Hero speed 2) Infinite Tomes 3) Permanent Levin Sword for all sword based attacks, tilts and all. 4) He still drops the tomes and Levin after a certain amount of uses, but he immediately regenerates the uses and can just catch the discard for item play.
I love how you talked about his weaknesses. As a Robin main, it really does make a huge difference without the Levin sword. May e if the Bronze Sword was an Iron or Steel one, at least Robin might be able to put up a fight when the Levin Sword's gone.
Robin is one of those characters that are not beginner friendly, he is super resourceful so much that it might be too much, but that just my opinion, also his is quite strong when used well, although imagine doing an amazing combo but the your sword durability dies, your basically 💀
I never expected to see a video about Robin. I thought he was just a forgotten character. I used to main him but I don't know why I stopped. It just happened
Having been a Robin main for a long time I agree with pretty much all this video. Robin has a LOT of options and versatility. Levin aerials are stupid good especially Nair, Arcfire ledgetrapping I would almost argue is the safest in the game (you can literally set it up from over halfway across the stage), having a chargeable neutral B with different properties is great for applying different kinds of pressure and setup, and although not having any hitbox above their head elwind having two projectile hitboxes below (one that has a strong spike up close) that can be somewhat aimed are all excellent tools. But I wouldn't say Robin's potential reaches a 80%-140% or even 130, it's closer to a 75%-115%. Levin sword is GOOD and feels meaty when it hits, but it's not amazing enough power-wise to justify it's durability mechanic (especially since it doesn't apply to tilts). Speaking of tilts, Robin's are garbage. Too low range to alleviate pressure, not enough damage to kill, too much knockback to juggle/set-up, too slow recovery to poke safely, and they hardly even feel like disjoints because they don't dramatically shift Robin's tall hurtbox having self. As someone else mentioned Robin's projectiles are very easy for many characters to low profile (some characters can run straight through past thunder), and despite using up SO MUCH CHARGE Thoron is arguable their most useless neutral B variant (thunder has quick poke pressure, elthunder good poke and snipe, and arcthunder amazing shield pressure and trapping potential) because it doesn't have the kick a move like that should have. Robin's jab finishers, although powerful and even taking stocks at reasonable percents near the ledge, use up their tome durability plus jab 2 is inconsistent. But nearly all of that, all of it, could be much more manageable if he weren't so freaking SLOW. I see it like this, Robin is a character with a REALLY good advantage state. If you can cover most all of your opponent's options and keep them in check with traps and zoning then a match can easily snowball in their favor. But to balance that they have an absolutely ABYSSMAL disadvantage state. Large hurtbox, low mobility, the only hitboxes to prevent juggling really is their Down air or recovery (which both sends them really high up giving the opponent lots of time to punish if it whiffs as well as puts them in free fall), being without one of your primary attacking options for upwards of 10 seconds on such a low mobility character is panic inducing, and not a lot of "get off me" tools if they're being rushed down. The cracks begin to show in that Robin REALLY struggles against characters significantly smaller and faster than him. Against match-ups like Bowser, Ganondorf, and Dedede Robin can do excellent because they are too big bodied to navigate his traps. Against the braler/fighter characters like Kazuya, Ken, Terry, and Captain Falcon Robin does alright because they are around his same height and not soo fast as to be difficult to zone. (plus their lack of long range options means Robin can play decent keep away) Same thing with other swordies, the advantage of having a projectile against them really helps and somewhat manages working with Levin sword having a durability mechanic. But against basically everyone else Robin REALLY struggles to make up for their weaknesses. That durability mechanic and low mobility makes him REALLY STRUGGLE to overcome other zoners. Rush down characters (especially Pikachu and Fox) give him a super tough time with their gap closers and the fact a lot of Robin's projectile hitboxes move slow. Characters that can throw out a lot of hitboxes like Olimar, Pacman, Steve, and Duck Hunt can make it really hard to set up traps against them. Because like with zoners your trapping options get blunted out, your tomes/Levin sword run out, and you don't have the mobility to gap close. Robin is a fun character to play, and even with all their drawbacks I can't think of a character they straight up have NO answer to. But against more difficult matchups the weaknesses heavily outweigh the strengths and with a terrible disadvantage state (every Robin main has felt the frustration of being caught off stage with a half use of elwind so you only get half your recovery) it doesn't seem worth the trouble if you're looking for consistent results. If Robin had better mobility, or workable tilts to relieve pressure and juggle, or his projectiles worked just a little bit faster (and Thoron hit just a bit beefier) then I think any of or all of those things would make them a much more played character.
So I'm a robin main, I haven't had a chance to go to locals at all recently because of my job and stuff, but I have a shit ton of experience with the character: to really play Robin you gotta play Robin in an entirely different way than most characters and you gotta be a hell of a lot more strategic with it than any other character in the game due to the fact that just about every goddamned move has a meter on how much you can use it.
I feel like robin needs a chrom/lucina type de-gimmicked echo fighter because robin has the only gimmick that feels like a major hindrance and pushes people away from the character.
Being honest with you, Robin's moves aren't noteworthy for consistency, arcfire has slow start up and endlag, nosferatu has intangibility for a couple of frames on the same it grabs, thunder/elthunder/arcfire can be hit out by many moves that end up canceling it out, thunder's charge type can be reset by an opponent attack, frame data on all of Robin's moves save for arc thunder and down smash Levin Sword have no practical shield pressure. Movement speed wise and by how vulnerable Robin becomes from up special, the loss of some good tools for several seconds in a fight, a poor grab, the best out of shield option being jab, Robin has it rough on all accounts
This one is interesting. When i played Smash 4 the first character i tried was Robin because mages are cool, so was the curved sword and was a starter character. My experience with him/her? It was absolutely dreadful. Being absurdly slow, the constant setup thing with spells, arcthunder taking too long to appear and his/her sword being a joke on the ground or when desgasted; not to mention i'm more of a brawler type of player, my brother is the swordfighter.
@@bennetboy838 I normally was too away to land them due to being mostly being used to zone, or only a dash attack or F-Air since everything else would just whiff. His Neutral B was also bad in smash 4 as well due to being too commital. I can't believe such an unintuitive character would be available so early on.
Considering that magic, bows, and weapons don't lose durability unless they actually connect in Awakening _specifically,_ that'd give credence to making all of Robin's moves only lose durability when they actually hit the target, in exchange for losing more durability per action. If that'd be too much, at the very least they could make it to where Levin Sword does not lose durability on a miss, because that's how it works in every game, not just Awakening. I don't play Robin, but these sound like fair buffs to me.
I love maining Robin because I love the character on which they are based, and I love the Fire Emblem series, and I love the uniqueness and diversity that they bring. That said, a few things that definitely need to be addressed, which basically center on the fact that the hindrance of resources comes with absolutely no benefit: 1.) Arcfire is beaten by FAR too many moves. A simple neutral *even on the ground* is enough to cancel it out. For a move that is incredibly slow to execute, has ok power, shares the resource as the gentleman's jab, this is ridiculous. On the subject of the gentleman's jab, if the tome is out, Robin just stands there. Didn't even get the courtesy of a replacement move with the bronze sword. It's also supposed to knock opponents back according to Nintendo's description, but in general that's pretty laughable until the opponent is basically 120%+ (even for the lightweights) when the Levin Sword essentially *starts* with decent knockback. 2.) Everything Thunder tome attack but Thoron can be rather easily beaten. Nerfing Arcthunder's shieldbreaking capability was painful enough, but pretty much any projectile can cancel it out. Moreover, while it can do decent damage if it hits, it's casting frame rate is long and it's kill potential leaves much to be desired, making it fairly easy to punish. Thoron is such an easy read that it's often more a "wow I can't believe that KO'ed you, you should be embarrassed" move. And it uses up a ridiculous amount of durability. 3.) Elwind recovery is broken, and not in a good way. The best thing they ever did for it was make it recharge more quickly, but as the video stated, 4 seconds is a REALLY long time. Moreover, Elwind's flurry is actually a bit subpar. While the final attack has slightly above average knockback, for something that shares a key resource (recovery) and also can run out, it only does average damage. Also, I've noticed compared to other flurry attacks that it pushes opponents away more quickly than any other flurry attack, allowing them to shield. So really, it has the potential to do *less* damage with less payoff. Finally, the Elwind meteor is pretty trash. I don't even know why they bothered. It's satisfying when it hits, but the angle has to be far more precise than any other meteor in the game. 4.) Nosferatu heals for crap, damages for crap, and is probably the worst command grab in the game. 5.) As the video mentioned, Levin Sword is slightly above average as a neutral option. However, it's range and speed really isn't that great. For example, despite the electricity coming out from the sides on their down smash, even when it *looks* like it is going under their shield, it...doesn't. Additionally, I cannot TELL you the number of times I've heard the sound effects and started to see the visual effects of Levin Sword smash attacks only for the move to not go off at all/be canceled. Tbh it's just mean. And Levin Sword's meteor is also exceptionally difficult to get off. Characters like Mario, Gandandorf/the Captain, DK, and KKR have such easy ones and are such an early kill option that it makes Robin's quite sad. Possible fixes: 1.) Don't let arcfire be beaten so easily, have it do a bit more shield damage, and reduce the frame lag, cause it is LONG. Also, increase the knockback of the gentleman's jab OR give it a short stun. 2.) Arcthunder should beat most other projectiles except for a fully charged Samus or something else (e.g. Cloud's sword canceling it is just depressing). Additionally, give it back it's shieldbreak capabilities. Finally, let Elthunder travel a bit further. Thunder and Thoron are kind of ok, though Thoron should either do more damage or be a more consistent kill option. 3.) Elwind's Flurry should be the highest damage-dealing flurry in the game given that it can run out, and it should be in line with other flurries in terms of how much it pushes opponents back. Elwind's recovery should allow for single use AND double use, as well as have a more consistent meteor effect or knockback in general. 4.) In my dream world, Nosferatu has a slightly larger range, heals more, and acts as a temporary shield from around him. But honestly, I'd take even just the better heal. 5.) Levin Sword's hit boxes/frames need finetuning. The electric part is far more cosmetic than anything else, and in general should extend the range of their attacks (e.g. the end of some of Min-Min's moves). As others mentioned, durability loss should only be if it hits, and bronze sword smashes should do a bit more than it does to recharge. Bronze sword needs to have SOME redeeming factor as well--maybe as an above average job, more shield break ability, literally anything. Some of those suggestions may seem to make Robin a bit *too* strong, but remember, a significant buff is needed to justify the resource aspect (and their terrible speed, especially when some of their best combos require mobility they literally don't have). Otherwise, Nintendo might as well just remove the resource aspect of it, and they'd probably be no higher than B tier. /end rant
Honestly, in Smash 4 Robin’s weapon durability mechanic sort of worked out for them as, the empty tomes hit SO hard. In Ultimate, the tomes are much weaker thrown items so finishing up your uses of a special really does feel like a complete loss. Sometimes the discarded weapons will cover a whiff which is nice, but not enough
Yeah,Empty tomes were so Powerful in Sm4sh,I have no idea why they nerfed it so hard in Ultimate. As if being obligated to wait for 10 seconds in the beginning of the match just to have the Levin Sword, wasn't already enough as a nerf.
I main Robin myself, and while limited tone durability sucks it isn't as bad as you might think when you're already playing the patient game. Speed, I'd say, is the biggest problem. Robin can't easily get in, and can't effectively stay in, and suffers against characters who are good at rushdown. However it's pretty close, because infinite tome durability would help a lot too. One can dream...
You can speed up Levin Sword's refresh timer by using certain Bronze Sword moves. Each aerial or smash attack will increase the gauge by some amount, so if you're a safe distance away from your opponent, you can throw out a few aerials to get Levin back faster.
It's the speed. Robin has a bunch of cool strengths and interesting setups, some excellent kill confirms, damage output and aerial frame data, but he's slow as molasses. A few minor buffs to ground speed and maybe grab frame data would help out massively.
This video inspired me to start playing Robin as a secondary, and I'm proud to say I've found a lot more success with her than I had expected. Some interesting tactics I've found revolve around a *lack* of certain spells. If your opponent sees you're out of fire, they'll be much more confident to approach from the side, which allows you to catch them getting careless around the Levin Sword. One of Robin's strongest points for me is not only having an arsenal of powerful tools that I need to manage, but that I can then turn the need to manage them into a whole different set of mindgames. Robin is only as inflexible as you allow her to be and is overall a great representation of a tactical playstyle that always keeps opponents on their toes if you play your resources effectively and will always have a place on my roster.
More so she gets in someone's head, but that's a way to put it. You also can't expect your opponent to know when your spells are recharged or running out quite as you do. Yes, there's an effect that occurs to indicate a recharge finishing, but you know exactly when that's happening after a while of playing him. If you suddenly whip out Thunder right as it recharges, you can totally catch somebody off guard as they weren't expecting how fast of a projectile it is to suddenly show up. Of course the more experienced the opponent the more likely they are to be aware of the state of your spells, so I'd be weary. But she is an absolute powerhouse of a trapper/set up character, and you'd be hard pressed to underestimate just how much pressure she can apply when given the advantage.
As a long time Robin player that's dropped him in Ultimate only 2 main things stop me from playing him. His UpB resource and the nerfing of Elfire. In Smash4 edge guarding was incredibly hard(basically impossible) and UpB being a resource still felt bad. In SmashU where edge guarding is so much more realistic having your subpar recovery being linked to not only a reasoure but a reasoure that is **also** linked to one of your most important moves in jab is just absolutely horrendous. These two things together make me actively avoid ever using rapid jab because there is the real chance doing that rapid jab gets me killed 40 seconds later. The nerfing of Elfire from Smash 4 to SmashU is also a huge deal. In Smash 4 Elfire either won or traded alot. In SmashU crap like Mario standing Jab procs it and still doesn't hit Mario. Elfire is supposed to be a walling tool like PKFire and yet can't wall out people just mashing on you. It causes Robin to be rapidly suffocated if he so much as dares dream of using Elfire outside ledgetrapping or strong advantage. There are other reasons people may not pick him up(like that fact that even if weapon durability was gone he would still be a mediocre character) but these two reasons are the ones a previous hardcore fan of his finally dropped him.
I think just increasing the base power of everything would value the durability more. If the sake of durability is for balancing purposes, I think increasing the power of each special is what Robin needs. And honestly, getting rid of durability, while probably just the simplest answer, would ruin the identity of the character, cuz c’mon, it’s a sick reference. I wouldn’t say change levin sword’s power though. Maybe do the thing most people are saying and make its durability not drain if there’s a whiff. And increase the power of bronze sword. Maybe make him somewhat faster.
Having mained Robin since Sm4sh, this does make sense in terms of weaknesses and strength. I have tried to imagine what the team might have done if they wanted to give Robin “DLC factor”, perhaps making specials further chargable with separate effects like Hero? Maybe one of the boosted specials could go through shield (just for less damage but still hitting, keeping opponents on their toes). Perhaps some silly mechanic where if he taunts “prepare yourself” and holds it down for like 2 seconds, it speeds up weapon regen for everything for the next 10 seconds or something. Heck, even just being able to act out of Elwind or control how many Elwind casts come out (like how several characters can still airdodge or aerial even after Up B), even one of these buffs would be HUGE, let alone if he got all of these or some alteration on them.
My DLC mechanic would be called "Darkness within", using Grima's influence, Robin has Kazuya's rage system starting at 100 (so slightly stronger moves) and Robin's Thunder spell automatically Thoron (no durability loss when used and Rage disappears after usage). It is a 1 hit shield breaker and does double the damage and knockback if it hits, similar to Hero's crit.
@@sharifbrown3567 tbh I dislike “get to high damage before unlocking a special mechanic” on almost any character, even if the mechanic is kinda interesting. Only for Terry do I kinda think it’s done okay. Kazuya Rage, Lucario Aura, even Sephiroth One Wing… I kinda find the way they work as comeback mechanics to be annoying. Hence why my suggestions of buffs for the character to not be limited time, but rather, things that are always in the players control even at 0
Honestly don’t mind most of the usual problems people have with Robin. I like managing the resources. The discarded tomes are useful (and can sometimes net you some bs lol). Her speed sucks, but she’s got one of the filthiest projectile games while also being part sword-character, so I feel like it’s a fair enough tradeoff. Sword durability also sucks, but purposefully switching between bronze and Levin sword with smash/tilt essentially gives you two sets of aerials, which potentially gives her a crazy combo game, or at the very least let’s you preserve your Levin sword for when you need it. Worst thing is Arcfire being bad. It has so much potential for Robin, but SDI pretty much ruins any application for it. It actually is a testament to how good the Thunder tomes are that she can still function as a really good projectile character even with that gimped of an option. Elwind should maybe be infinite too.
I don't mind the newer FE reps because they actually break the norm of typical FE characters. Honestly what I really want is a character that uses a spear. I kind of wish they would have actually gone all out with link and gave him weapon swapping like BOTW where he could have his sword and shielf, a spear, and maybe a giant club. But FE is most likely where this rep will come from so hopefully they eventually step further out of their comfort zone and make more varied FE characters.
@@julienherard414 Sadly that would balancing more difficult in Smash. How would a spear welder recover well in Smash??????? That's the downside of Smash being more platform focused than other fighters.
@@julienherard414 Wrong, can a person counter with a spear????? Remember Marth's Dolphin Smash is based on the jumping animations of the critical hits from Thracia 776. Has a spear wielder ever did something like that????? Sakurai almost never takes any creative liberties on RPG characters.
@@orangeslash1667 spear wielders have done something different. Plus, there are plenty of spear animations in Fire Emblem that could be used. Sakurai could take some liberties for recovery if he can't find an immediate one. Like, maybe the spear fighter treats the spear like a helicopter or a pole vault
I have a friend who really likes robin and considers the UI display as a nerf. As a robin player he could keep track of his spells with no UI making it much harder for opponents to keep track
It didn't take 13 years to have it, but I can tell you realized this as you had shown Celica. Gaiden was the first FE game to do both Swords & Magic on one unit, but I won't spoil any of the classes in Genealogy or Thracia as you haven't played either yet.
I appreciate this video greatly since it came out but I think the lack of players playing Robin is to this video's detriment because the example you use at 7:46 does not do justice to the extreme power imbalance within Robin's kit. Rather than 80% - 140%, the reality is alot more like 50% - 110%. When you have all your best tools, you are marginally better than the average meta character. But the SECOND you lose even 1 of your specials you are crippled beyond belief. Even if Sakurai wanted to improve the durability system it wouldn't help that much because the consequences of just using your tools how you need to is pushing you closer and closer to Robin being a frankly unplayable mess. Without thunder or arcfire, you dont have a neutral. Without Levin sword, you can't kill. Without Elwind you can't recover. No other character in the game has to put up with being forced into mediocrity just for trying to play the game.
I’m a Peach/Incineroar/Robin main and I love the technical aspects of Robins resource management, move precision, and just all around fun factor. Truly a unique and singular fighter with mage status 💙
Have absolutely loved Robin since Smash 4, however only fairly recently started playing her again in Ultimate. My two cents is that Robin has massive potential when played well (especially due to most players lacking MU knowledge). I don't think resource depletion is a real issue, it just forces you to play with intent and avoid whiffing as much as possible. Robin has great tools for all situations and great moveset synergy (eg, arcfire into nosferatu into ...) and levin aerials/smash attacks hit hard af. The one real, serious problen that holds her back is abysmal speed. Robin with, say, Lucina's ground speed would be a *huge* upgrade. Her other flaws can be worked around with practice, but her speed is... well, it's shit.
Yeah, I do blame people for picking up Roy/Ike/Marth and having no skill though. The ranged characters take great skill in this game, sword characters are vastly superior in every way and typically win any matchup against anyone but themselves almost for free.
I don't agree with some of this analysis. You claim that Robin's resource managment is something players have less control over than Arsene. I would argue you have a lot more control over it. You don't control it's re-charging, sure, but you control it's depletion. Playing Robin is about deciding when to use up durability and when to hold on to it. Not wanting to use a move because another move is on cooldown is a downside yes, but it isn't the same downside you are saying it is. But what's important is that it's entirely within your control. Nothing your opponent does depletes the resources faster like with Arsene. Being killed restores all of them, the opposite of Steve who needs to get resources back after a death. There is not timer making you lose your resources. Sure misses are wasted, but you only lose resource when you chose to use a move. I think you put too much emphasis on the resources and not enough on the fact that he's just a lackluster character even when nothing is depleted. He's certainly not bad, but not good enough to make up for the fact that you need to do that resource management.
as a robin main i would like that levin sword only lost durability when i hit my oponent and not when i miss, however i'd keep tomes loosing durability even when missing
id love if robin could Shield + B to activate swiftsole or "boots" to boost its own speed for a short period of time, those could have their own durability or long Cd as ingame its a consumable item.
I know this mechanic is on a few other units already, but I think it would make sense for Robin to have a boosting mechanic like Arsene or limit break. In the game they come from Robin actually has one. The promotion of their class Grand Master gets Ignis. A combat special that bathes them in an aura of purple flames and adds the strength stat to magic attacks or the magic stat to physical attacks. With their balanced stats, this basically doubles damage. In smash I could see them handling this in a few different ways. One way would be to Simply double damage while it's active. Or they could take the joker approach and give all of their moves a buffed version while it's active. Arc flame could turn into Bolganone, Elwind could turn into Rexcalibur Thoron could be used without charging, Nosferatu Could turn into Goetia or Aversa's night, and the sword attacks would get a damage boost. The bronze sword could be on par with the Levin sword and the Levin Sword could be even stronger.
My DLC mechanic would be called "Darkness within", using Grima's influence, Robin has Kazuya's rage system starting at 100 (so slightly stronger moves) and Robin's Thunder spell automatically Thoron (no durability loss when used and Rage disappears after usage). It is a 1 hit shield breaker and does double the damage and knockback if it hits, similar to Hero's crit.
While I do think that Robin has a lot of issues with his kit, I think it's fitting that a character of the tactician archetype needs to think carefully about when to use their resources for best effect and attempt to lure foes into bad situations. I'd also think Robin should be one of the FE characters that should stay if the roster was ever pared down. Marth, Ike, Robin and Byleth all represent different parts of the series really well while keeping each character relatively unique.
@@SpyderBey we don't talk about feet. kidding, but corrin, while definitely unique, is arguably the only FE character that's less used than robin, for the similar reasons (the move to smash ultimate nerfed them to hell)
@@vla1ne If they remove Corrin i will be sad, Fates is my favorite FE(Conquest) and made me get into the series(the story sucks but the gameplay and everything else is great), i also have Corrin as a secondary(My main is quite obvious) so if they removed Corrin It would be really sad for me
@@OWRen5432 fair enough. I use corrin too, and i love her moveset overall. personally, byleth, corrin, marth, robin, and ike (and arguably roy) are all the FE characters that have extremely unique movesets, or franchise establishing history (where marth was the OG protag, and awakening kinda saved the whole franchise)
@@vla1ne If i'm being honest, the only ones i'd like being removed are Lucina, Chrom and Roy because they are too similiar to the others, although Chrom/Lucina have to be with Robin to represent Awakening (Personally i'd like if in the next game they switched Robin's nosferatu to have Chrom as a switch character), Lucina while it's great that she's in the game, i don't think she stands out well unless they eventually gave her Parthia (a bow) for example. Roy it's more because while he was the Second FE character in the series, he's my least favorite lord (afther Kris) and i don't like FE6 that much so i'm kinda biased against him(also IF they removed Roy, i could keep Chrom, or if they removed Chrom i think It would be ok to keep Roy). But If i'm being truly honest: I don't want none of them removed from the game and in fact i want even more FE characters on Smash lol
I'll tell you why no one plays Robin. When Sm4sh came out, I immediately picked up Robin as my main because I really liked the idea of a mage swordy. Then I quickly found out: 1. Smash characters with a resource meter tend to be bad. 2. Robin moves very slow. 3. His moves are often terrible with the regular sword. 4. Most of his kill power comes from the electric sword, which only lasts what? 6 hits? Doesn't the durability also wear off when Robin wiffs or attacks a shield? 5. If your air book is on CD then you have no recovery. 6. If any of your books are on CD you're on a disavantage. 7. His down B is stupidly hard to hit, and even if it hits, it does mediocre damage and it is a mediocre heal. 8. His throws are bad. This is also why Inkling, Hero, and Robin are bad. The only resource character that's good is Steve and that's because he has so much kill potential from a lot of his moves. It also doesn't hurt that Steve can create literal platforms and walls to safely gather resources whenever he wants. What is a Robin with 2 books on CD and no swowrd going to do? run away? With his speed? The only good thing about Robin is his amazing side B and neutral B. Which, again, are not even permanent.
I kinda disagree that Inkling and Hero's resource depletion is what makes them bad since they have other issues why nobody plays them that much. Besides, unlike Robin, Inkling can refill their ink anytime and Hero restores mana easily
It would help if they didn't lose their specials moves fully when they run out and instead got weaker things like Cloud has. Imagine if Joker didn't have his tether. That is what Robin deals with.
Dude actually same 😂 i mean, not actually - i do still play Robin and really enjoy them, but Smash 4's red Robin alt was dope and damn i wish it was still around
A major factor is that people misunderstand how Robin's tools work like, Arcfire isn't a zoning tool. It's a situational trapping move that works best when Robin already has the advantage. Catch landings or pressure the ledge with it. Robin's actual zoning tools are Thunder, Elthunder, and Levin aerials. With the ability to focus more on one or the other based on whichever your opponent is least capable of dealing with.
Honestly 2 things for Robin in my book. Make it so you can see a your recourse gauges at once and have your recourses regenerate over time when they're not in use but not explusively when they run out.
Robin can actually recharge his tomes and Levin Sword faster by for example killing the opponent. It make Robin recharge his tomes 1.5sec up to 3sec (Levin and Wind Tome 👀) and for Levin you can also make "Smash Attack" Input. It make Levin recharge 0.5sec faster per Input (That you can do in the air so you can spam aerials which make Levin recharge for roughly 6sec)
the problem is that said speed increase requires you to get a kill. while missing your tools. in effect, you have to win more while handicapped just to get back to normal.
What if Robin's down b was changed to something similar to Clouds. Instead of Nosferatu, his new ability can be Hammerine Staff. In the Fire Emblem series, the Hammerine staff is used to repair weapons. In Smash, Robin can use the staff to rapidly restore his tomes.
I feel for robin players because hes such a cool character that takes a big brain and he does have huge weaknesses. In spite of all that he is a strong character still but imagine he had infinite book or sword.
If they're going to make another game, I hope they add more mechanics to Robin, like incorporating the FE skill mechanic to them. There's a ton of skills in FE:A, so I guess they can implement it like the Monado, but make it so that it represents FE's series more
Robin actually got stronger combos out of Arcthunder. They are still quite easy to hit once you get adjusted to the timing and spacing. If that doesn't convince you, I got plenty of other examples on my own channel.
@@Mad_Ice_King Well, I suppose there's "stronger" combos, but they're significantly less reliable because of how much they reduced Arcthunder's hitstun.
you should have also mentioned, that robin is way to overtuned in the wrong direction. The ingame tips say, that robin is slow, but has great spells in exchange for that. that means, he's balanced around his spells. but they are nowwhere near good enough to warrent his abysmal physics. arcfire, elwind and elthunder have garbage priority (they desintegrate to pretty much every aerial, tilt or smashattack) and thunder has wierd x-achsis issues. As a robin Main i can say, that elwind running out has almost never been a problen. what is a problem however, is when you have a single charge of elwind left. if you dont have your recovery, you can stall with an airdodge and the little hop you instead get from using the move. But if you only have a single use left, you get the hop and straight up freefall to your death. Also spawning items is pretty decent, although it is nowhere near as useful, as it used to be. In Sm4sh the strengt of throwing the items was almost equivalent to a levin aerial. It's a shadow of its former self. Last thing i wanna say is, that almost every aspect of robins groundgame ist straigt up bad. tilts are either worthless or niche and specific. Grab is slow, throws are ok, backthrow doesn't kill until like 150 at the very edge of the stage. I have been maining Robin since the sma4h days and i would love more people to play him, but wow, he's way undertuned. (also he has one of the best jabs in the game, don't @ me)
So many people talking about the durability being the problem, which I can't really agree with (if that's all the elaboration we get): I actually really like the Durability thing concept-wise, design-wise and also balance-wise (kinda). The Weapons or Books running out is not a strictly bad thing. Handholding Items in Smash is something very powerful and I've seen only a small amount of Robin Players actually abuse that properly, intentionally draining durability from their tools to get a new item and threaten the opponent with a better OOS option and unpredicatable z-catching. It's of course not nearly on the level of Banana or Bell, but think of what Link can do with the bomb as an item, disregarding the explosion part even. But doing stuff with that is a lot harder and less zone-y, so I get that it's out of the comfort zone of many players, and it's still not an *incredibly* high reward for Robin, but still it's such a huge upside for me to consider when talking about "durability ruining the character". Losing the Sword is even better than losing a Book here (purely item-wise what you get). However, I also have my problems with that. Not with the Books tbh, I think all Specials are powerful enough that losing the Book at some point and gaining Access to the Item is Flavor more than anything and often even beneficial. Arcfire is super potent and not having access to it is a fair opening in my eyes. Arcthunder is very versatile, and losing it can make many MUs much harder, but that's Smash. Certain MUs will change how you value certain Spells. But as long as you don't run out of Arcthunder *and* Arcfire at the same time, it should be fine. Up-B is super important and losing that is horrible, but it recharges in seconds, and I have barely ever seen a competent Robin die to that. And Nosferatu has one of the strongest Healing Effects in the Game, and you get 3 uses of it. But at the same time, due to how slow it is and how little range you have and how you can't heal much at low%, it's very situational. As such, that's one of the main Books I see people sacrifice to get the item. Overall, I generally like how all Book Durabilities are handled. My Issue comes with the Sword though. I'm fine with its Durability as well, also that you can intentionally drain it (though I'm persnally bad at controlling when I want which sword). What I don't like is the Power Difference between both Swords. The Levin Sword I'd leave how it is. It has good combos, Down-Smash covers for Ledge Traps very well, it can do basically anything you want, and I think it's fair to have it have Durability. But Robin's Bronze Sword is so bad man. Pathetic Range, still basically the same Frame Data, but barely any Reward for hitting. You can barely space with it, or Combo, or threaten anyone. If anything, I'd love to see a buff for Bronze Sword, to make it more of a Combo Tool only for Levin Sword to finish the Stocks. That way it would even make sense that you get Levin Sword with a Delay. A bit like the Mythra/Pyra Dynamic, just not as extreme. Levin can still Combo and kills early, but not ridiculously early. Bronze Sword should be able to do its job and combo, just maybe not as extreme as Mythra does, and instead deal notable Damage. Basically don't make them extremes, just more balanced that Bronze Sword is not just Levin Sword in sucky. EDIT: Typos. EDIT²: Having watched the Video I still stand by what I said. I still think the Specials and Levin Sword are fine. And I think Item tosses are being underrated, especially since you can throw it more than once. But I agree that a Burst Movement Option would work Wonders. Though that doesn't feel fitting for the "Tactician". What I'd love to see much more, now that I think about it, would be a faster grab with more Range and actual Reward from Grabs. You whiff Punishing the Opponent to grab them (or even grabbing OOS) sounds like the kind of "I expected that so you ran right into my trap/grab" is something that would fit the Character. And I always hated how small the Grab Range was and how little Reward they got from one. I think that alone would make their limited Mobility much less of a pain and them much more threatening to approach, as you always have to be wary to get grabbed for a rushed engage, thus giving the Robin more time to breathe and restock their Ressources. And it would make their OOS better (if their Grab was faster and wider).
Celica from Fire Emblem 2 and Fire Emblem Shadow of Valentia is actually a sword mage too. Her unique Priestess and Princess classes are, if I recall, saber classes and when she first starts she has a golden dagger as a weapon. She's also one of the best classes in the game as she has a mix of magic and physical and she has the stats of a Lord, generally. She really should have been in the game instead of Robin as I would argue she is the bigger character now.
Some of the worst things about robin is that you have keep track if you have an even or odd number of elwinds left. A jab combo typically only uses one charge which can get you killed when you only use half of your recovery. Another issue is that the only way to replenish your weapons other than getting a ko is to use them up. This means that when the weapon is low, your encouraged to exhaust the weapon unnecessarily just so you don't run out when you actually need the weapon. One of the stupidest decisions was to have levin sword exhausted when you spawn for the fist stock only. Just why
