Why The Night Lords Are the Most Ethical & Humane Legion | Warhammer 40k Lore 

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Night Lords : - Did you just tortured the entire planet ?! - No sir, just the higher ups, the population is safe and we took control over there. Emperor Childrens : - Did you just tortured the entire planet ?! - Yes - I guess you took control of it right ? - Oh shit so that's why we went there in the first place.

Honestly I find it interesting that most Night Lords now a days are evil and cowardly, they are the ones that looked out only for themselves and will immediately backed off the moment things got even a little challenging, so it makes sense that they survived, alike their more honourable brothers that were constantly in thick of things

I think the Nightlords were good during the Great Crusade helping take worlds without murdering millions except after the heresy they're basically criminals let off the leash able to go around and violate and murder however they want. There's a reason they operate a lot like the Dark Eldar taking on battles where they have a huge advantage instead of fighting actual armies and such.

The funny thing is, the Emperor basically said to Malcador during their wargaming of the heresy not to worry about scenarios where Konrad stays a traitor, as all the Emperor needed to just talk to him to get him to rejoin them. So it was actually Sanguineous who caused him to remain a traitor by jettesoning him into deep space.

I really think that that games workshop should separate the Heretic legions from the Traitor legions in game. Night lords and Alpha legion and to a lesser extent Iron Warriors/Red Corsairs really dont feel like Chaos armies lorewise. Give them seperate codexs and model lines. They could even leave their rules in the Chaos codex to represent the warbands that did fall.

Roboutian Heresy Night Lords are kinder than the Salamanders indeed thanks to Konrad Curze being raised by a loving mother when he landed in Nostramo.

"We are not kind masters, but we are saints when compared to the filth that dwells within the Maelstrom." -Talos addressing the mortal crew of the Covenant of Blood before meeting with the Red Corsairs.

I just finished reading the night lords series by Aaron Dembski-Bowden it was so good and Talos and his brothers were deep and interesting characters. Even Oozas who was corrupted by Khorne was able to regain control of himself in the end to try to prove to his brothers that he wasn’t a blood thirsty monster that they thought he was.

We need a video on what would happen if other primarch were to return instead of Guilliman

Their characterization in their omnibus made the night lords feel so much better than other legions that get fuck all for lore

The best thing that have happened to the Space Wolves was the departure of Russ. They have gone from a bunch of assholes that punch first and ask questions later to helping Imperial Guard and Civilians to escape from the Inquisition of all people. Logan is a WAY BETTER LEADER than Russ has ever been and I hope that If he ever returns he at least come out as a better person.

The problems of the Night Lords is the same as the Curze problem with Nostromo. They used pretty scarry stick, but no carrot afterwords

It’s the fact that the Night Lords usually do morally reprehensible things that make the small acts of kindness from characters from characters Talos, Malcharion, and Sevatar stand out so much.

The fact that they have so much lore compared to a lot of the other traitor astartes and yet don't have their own codex is the true crime.

I was actually thinking the same thing reading the Night Lords Omnibus. Being a slave under them would be better than being a Word Bearers slave, considering the Night Lords literally let trusted slaves fly thunderhawks

Konrad killed thousands to spare millions....some of his brothers only spared whoever was left.

Majorkill is having a Bricky moment

I think the contrass between the humane night lords and the cartoon villain ones is a great way to tell the story of a space marine legion that degenerated. You can just barely see the embers of heroism in them while all their brothers around them push each other to embrace their depravity, and even innovate in it.

The next video: do the entire pantheon of the Eldar Gods and what they're up to

You should make a video comparing and contrasting very similar legions, like the Night Lords v Alpha Legion, Imperial Fists v Iron Warriors, etc

The main issue with the NLs is that their tactic only lasts as long as the fear remains.

"He pacified Nostromo, is what he did. He was a brave primarch vigilante. And in this house Konrad Curze is a hero! End of story"

Konrad will likely be very easy to bring back to life via cloning because of how clean his death was. Maybe that’s why he didn’t want his assassin harmed, because he was really doing Konrad and the future imperium a huge favor. He wasn’t very corrupted and his soul likely wasn’t forfeit at the time of his death. Death is preferable when looking at some smelly boys, like who knows what 10,000 years has done to Morty’s soul

I mean, it's a super hot take but like... I totally get it though.

The Night Lords take a new level of that famous Machiavelli's phrase: "For a Leader, It's better being feared by the people then being loved by them". And it's funny see that they are even some good duelists who fight straitfoward against their enemies and rarely using cheap tatics or cheating, showing how they are more less than a bunch of sadistic Joker and more like a P.eacemaker

Nightlords defecting from chaos and coming back to the Imperium would be a cool storyline.

In the long term, Night Lord conquered worlds had more death. Mostly in the rebellions that followed as soon as the Night Lords were perceived as no longer being around. Most of their worlds descended into anarchy, civil war, and rebellion during the Horus Heresy, which tended to be far bloodier, longer and drawn out, and with higher levels of civilian casualties and infrastructure damage than any of the Ultramarine, Blood Angel, or Imperial Fist worlds. Case in point, Nostramo.

You should make a sharrowkyn video, man reps the raven guard as their best dualist hands down and dual wields gladius like a boss

If you ask me personally, I think it says a lot that the concept of honor in combat is often upheld by the powerful few who can afford heavy armor, well crafted weapons, servants to maintain sed gear, and are regularly well fed and have the time to train all day. And they expect the servant class who are malnourished, under equipped and only have time to work to fight them in the same manor. It's almost like those in power create rules that appear to be fare but only benefit themselves. If you were to ask a twisted conniving jerk like me what honor in combat means, I'll say ending the fight as quickly as possible with minimal harm and suffering so that we can both return to our loved ones. Does this mean I prefer stealth, sabotage, deception, fear tactics, and underhanded tricks, yes. Does this mean I'm alright with harming children and non combatants. No, especially children.

Wow! I never expected the Night Lords to be so honorable.

Xarl's death was truly epic. The last man standing after going blow for blow with a Terminator. Surely the Emperor himself was proud of his son that day.

Getting a video about how each of the pre heresy primarchs would have reacted to being in Guillimans current situation would be pretty cool ngl

This almost makes me think of "The Dark Knight Returns", when after beating the leader of the "Mutants" Gang, they rebrand themselves as the "Sons of Batman" and start violently fighting crime in Gotham... Such as savagely beating (I think killing?) A guy who was robbing a store, and then cutting off the fingers of the store owner because he was giving the robber the money.

There’s always been something about the ferocious nobility of Konrad and Sevatar that was missing from the other primarchs and heresy era astartes

Dembski-Bowden and whoever wrote Lord of the Night gave the Dark Lords a depth that was awesome. Sad if the current lore is leaving that behind.... I think Majorkill likes them because their homeworld was basically Space Australia 🤪 Edit - Simon Spurrier I think wrote Lord of the Night, which pretty sure was an inspiration for the later trilogy.

Imagine if Konrad Curze was voiced by Takahata101 aka Mr. Perfect Cell and Alucard.

He reminds me of that speech that the psiedo bad guy gave in the movie "Shooter". Talking about massacres in the villages being so bad that when the next village gets a whiff of the people coming they just go, immediately.

Night Lords: "Hey there, loyalists! How's your health plan?" Imperial Guard: *open fire!* Night Lords: "APPARENTLY IT WAS GREAT!"

The Alpha Legion are my favorite legion, but Konrad Curze is my favorite primarch for the sheer tragedy of his life. 7:09 absolutely not. He died because at the end he was a coward. If he would've defended himself, he'd have proven that his visions weren't absolute and that he could've chosen not to be a monster. That was what he meant by vindication.

Night Lords: *"HEY KIDS WANNA SEE A DEAD BODY?!"* Everyone: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!"

Extremely well made video with strong arguments in NLs favor. They really were the most direct and least collateral damage Astartes force. Though a lot of methods are debatable when observed individually, in grand scope of the things they had achieved the result - quick compliance, peaceful and cooperative population, another world/system added to the Imperium.

I LOVED the part in the night lord book with Malcharion and the woman. he basically gave her a tour of the temple and then gave a long speech of his accomplishments before adding protecting her to that list.

I would swap "ethical" with "responsible" - most of their actions (at least when the writing was good) was all about result. You could say that "Night Lords are most ethical" because they lowkey didn't give a shit about ethics: when there was a mission, they took the fastest way to win, and that usually involved torturing bunch of nobles (who probably had it coming) God, how badly do I want a proper Night Lord revival, make them badass again GW!

Probably retconned, but there was also the Night Commander Sahaal from the novel, Lord of the night.

Sadly I can't disagree with what you said here. The only thing is that do we use the few good night lords to explain the Legion or the massive amount of shit head nightlords. I actually really like those few interesting night lords you talked about, I just don't know if they are who I think of when I think of the night lords, or even if that's who I should be thinking of. Even tho they are named and important characters, they all seem like the exception rather than the rule. Even more so in the current times. Also, I do have to say, the concept of "warcrimes" is a thing for a reason and there are good reasons for all the no nos on that list. I think the point of the lost existing is that these atrocities are so bad that even good intentions and good results aren't enough to cover the evil of the atrocity. Not to mention, those people who have been cowed are not willfully compliant. They are terrified and will likely rebel or run at first chance

Alright Majorkill, so almost two decades ago I read a book you really would enjoy(I believe). Lord of Night by Simon Spurrier. We have a Night Lord Captain who has been on Sus-An membrane hibernation for the last 10k but WAS a willing member of going traitor. He rather plainly lays out the problem with modern Night Lords vs what they were to a former friend battling him for the story Mcguffin(The things placement in lore bothers me but eh). Honestly want a genuine good example of a dedicated Night Lord and a good reason for why the Legion has become what it is you’ll need to give this one a read, or a listen if it’s available in audio format.

There's still the Alpha Legion and Raven Guard who are comparable, Alpharius was even scolded by dorn for his subversive doctrine

You convinced me. When i grow up i wanna be a Night Lord.

This shows how Majorkill knows his content and also how good of a story teller he is. Props to you bro👌

Didn't the Night Lords' tactics also not work very well since planets would go right back to being bad once they left?

The Imperium is lucky Curze didn't fall to Chaos. He would have made Angron look like a baby

A small change to their follow up doctrines after achieving compliance could’ve made it FAR less likely that those planets would rebel later.

I don’t know. I’ve always seen their tactics as ineffective. Since, they require consistent presence to maintain rule. Wasn’t it stated somewhere, most of their worlds broke out into rebellion during the Horus Heresy? Additionally, I don’t think their tactics work at all against any other race than humans. So, they were definitely one of the legions that the emperor probably didn’t expect to last after the great crusade.

Love all the nightlord content on your channel, it's spot on. They are a nuanced and truly tragic chapter that get glossed over way too often

I'm just getting into 40k now, and finding your channel has been a warm welcoming of sorts to the lore. Cheers

No lie, your lore videos really pushed me into getting a Night Lords army and starting the Night Lords Omnibus! Ave Dominus Nox!

We need an video on why invading Ultramar is a bad idea.

MK you turned me onto Night Lords with some of your earlier vids. First chapter/warband I painted. Got me to read the books. I love it bruh. Thank you.

Finally a video of my favorite Legion. Keep up the good work.

I think the important take away is that almost all the "nice" Night Lords are written by ADB.

Nightlords truly have mastered the way of psychological damage. Traumatizing-yes, everyone is alive-yes.

I have started reading the night lords books centered around Talos based off of your video of him you did however long ago it was, but which i only saw recently. I'm really enjoying the duality of his personality vs his obvious disdain/hate for the majority of his brothers. It's my first chaos/non-imperial book and i am finding it far more interesting than the Uriel Ventriss (?)series (which i abandoned about 3 chapters into his third book of omnibus volume 1). Keep up the good work. You're basically my go to lore and reading material.

ive read majority of the nightlords books back to back several times, thank you for doing this video, it all makes sense now.

How about a video on the Alpha Legions way of recruitment and how this sooner or later will lead to Alpha Legion Primaris Marines.

Good video. I do like how the overall theme of Warhammer, that of the degeneration of everything from cultures and societies to even what ethics and morals mean (a Sister of Battle and a Catholic Nun will have very, very conflicting opinions) plays through with the Night Lords. Though I also agree that a bit more nuance would serve them far better, but they are the one legion where that kind of degradation makes complete sense; they're made up of mostly violent criminals now, the old ways of codes of conduct and honorable action have literally been killed out of them. Having said that, I wanted to pass on a bit of insight. I am a Desert Storm Vet from America and I want to talk to you about what long term, systemic fear does and how it is neither ethical nor moral. I was in for the whole thing; from Desert Shield through Desert Storm. I was in the Navy. The only reason we didn't stay longer than 8 1/2 months is because our former Captain was in charge of ship deployment and he liked us. For a solid 7+ months we lived under the constant threat of attack. We knew the capabilities of the enemy, that they had a few weapons that they would (and eventually did) use in an attempt to destroy key vessels. My ship, as an amphibious assault ship full of marines and tanks ready to ruin someone's day, was a prime target for those weapons. We didn't know where or when or even how the attack would come, only that it could come at any moment. It was, to quote Stephen King, "a long season in hell." I never slept more than three hours at a time, I was constantly on edge, constantly irritated and every time I was topside (out in the sun) I was scanning the horizon regularly. The stress was simultaneously impossible to pin down and ever present, like a faint smell you can't place but can't get rid of either. I'm now 52. a couple times a month I wake up with that fear still gnawing at my brain. Sometimes I hear the voices of people repeating things that they said back then, as if whispering in my ear. I can't take part in the 4th of July, Memorial Day or Veteran's Day celebrations because fireworks and sudden loud noises thrust me into panic mode. Now, having shared this, do you still think that the Night Lord's standard practice of torturing an entire planet constantly through fear is more humane than simply wiping them out in order to force compliance? In the end they are probably making the same percentage of people useless to society that a Salamander assault would, the only real difference is that the Night Lords victims suffer constantly for years if not decades.

The title of the video is like: "Why the world eater is the most calm and collective legion" But you have some good point majorkill

KEEP THE NIGHTLORD CONTENT COMING!!!! Shi is filling in my free time and I’m invested

Majorkill can you do a video on the planets of the Sol System in 40k?

I wouldn’t say Conrad not ascending to becoming a demon prince is “him being tru to himself to the end” more like he needed this to happen to justify his actions by having it show that “things were out of his control”

Head canon: a fat number of Iron Warriors, Night Lords, and Alpha Legionnaires are not Chaos tainted just renegade warbands. I imagine them with Mk III to Mk V armors with scraps and mods from newer Imperium tech-even Xenos tech. Either salavaged or plundered.

Funny thing is that Konrad Curze acually did make an education system, police force and etc. But one of his night lords Gendor skraivok staged a planetary Rebellion and put Nostramo the same way it was before konrad entered.

I wonder how it would have gone if Lion L Johnson became warmaster/traitor instead of Horus, As it is hinted that the emperor knew whoever became warmaster would become traitor, then that it is mentioned Lion L’Johnson was the emperors second choice.

The whole point of Nostramo and its fate is that Konrad's philosophy and NL tactics didn't work even in the short run.

The whole "Night Lord's despising Chaos" thing kinda falls off by the 41st Millennium; Azrael fights and kills a Night Lord Chaos Sorcerer who is raising undead tainted slaves just after he ascended to Supreme Grand Master. Either way, not sure I would argue for morality amongst the Post-Heresy Night Lords

Konrad liked to point out that he was the Primarch with the lower body count among his brothers, when he was sane mind you.

I mean, my understanding is the Thousand Suns make the Night Lords look like the other legions in comparison. I got the impression they would just use sorcerers to convince planets to surrender without ANY bloodshed. To the extent that they got into fights with other legions, mostly non-violent but some turned bloody, because how they conquered was that different.

One of the Greatest scenes in 40k: Charadons and Night Lords stalking eachother on the Prison world. But best scene ever, Tyberius, manhandling a load of Hive Tyrants or some such in close quarters in close hand to hand combat. There's a reason they call him the 'Red Wake'.

I got into a fight with someone over this before; because I mentioned that in the Warhammer Fantasy lore it is said that some of the chaos gods are actually good guys; Khorne is a neutral god who honors codes of war and actually practices martial laws. Nurgle actually cares about his followers and blesses them with love and glee whereas other gods might be much more cruel. In the Warhammer Fantasy lore there are good chaos gods and definitely really bad ones. So to hear the Night Lord's are actually following a code and are technically good guys in the way you described gives me a reason to appreciate the chaos factions a bit more

I love how the nightlords are being called the most ethical, and Majorkill can be quoted saying, "They are incredibly unethical" Just goes to show you how head fucked Astartes really are sometimes.

Brutal calculus and utilitarian ethics are just the most mathematical form of ethics. The position is sound when you're looking at the bottom line, but can have some annoying repercussions. They have their place, as do the ethics of honor, power hugs and world flattening engagement. Then again ethics is just another tool to get the job done... because Hydra Dominatus - For the Emperor!

My favourite chapter. Thank you!

One of your best vids, MK.

The prime night lords always make me think of this quote from the 2014 Dracula movie "Men do not fear swords. They fear monsters. They run from them. By putting one village to the stake, I spared ten more. Sometimes the world no longer needs a hero. Sometimes what it needs... is a monster."

Do a day In the life of series for a normal soldier for each army 😂

1k views in 7 mins! Killing it bro!

They have always been one of my favorites. People look down on underhanded tricks and yet more got done with less in a faster way with the least amount of damage with the alpha legion and the nightlords. Plus lightning bolts on their armor are badass

Before watching, im just gonna assume because they just straight up torture the worst of the worst and actually try to serve justice and order where they are. (The only good things i can think about NLs tbh)

I don't agree, yes their tactics did ensure that worlds would surrender but just like when Konrad left his world and it returned to be a lawless place full of crime, the moment that there where no Nightlords to fear, these worlds has no reason to remain loyal. Yes, there are some amazing Nightlords, just like there were amazing Thousand Sons, World Eaters and Emperor Childrens. The young woman survived not thanks to all the Nightlords but to a single Nightlord. Yes, the Imperial Fists and Ultramarines destroyed more of a world but then rebuilt it to be loyal to the empire. It seems like the Nightlords sacrificed less people but by forcing the world to surrender through fear instead of defeating it in battle and rebuilding it, they ensure that these worlds will rebel when the shock wore off in a generation or so ensuring more death has to occur. It is the Ultramarines, Imperial Fists etc the ones who did the bloody work to ensure less death in the future. Primarchs and Space Marines don't and shouldn't think in terms of a few years but in terms of centuries or millenia. Not what ensures a world surrenders now but what ensures a world remain loyal for centuries.

Thank you for this!

Pretty impeccable that this video was uploaded the same day I finished paiting Konrad Curze. It didn't come up in my feed for 2 days after, but still a pretty neat coincidence

Now presenting...THE HUMANE MARINES!!!

If Aaron Dempski Bowden (who lets be real here are the reason the nightlords are so well written) doesn't give us a conclusion to Sevatar's story ima rage

The Night lord being of the chaos kool-aid (for most of them) make them so fun to read about, they have actual thoughs hat arent alien to us (the reader) unlike most of the corrupted astartes

Thanks bro, you've made me review my thinking on the Lords, your right the are probably the most noble of the so called traitor legions or the loyal legions.

Yeh listening to the Night Lord audio books I think their logic of keeping order through fear rather than torching entire worlds, was actually 'kinder' in a WH40K sense than the Empires Iron Fist. However with the primarch went mad and died, the legion was tainted with criminal loser recruits and they lost their purpose. I look forward to where the lore goes next with the new Night Hunter Decimus. Will he be able to return the legion to it's terrifying status!?

I think it's more accurate to call the Night Lords the most efficient legion as opposed to the most ethical and humane one.

great video majorkill

Keep up the Dope Content!

Remember, they slaughter innocents for fun, even the crews of their own vessels… ADBs Night Lords trilogy are to this day my most favourite 40k stories.