Why the Trap Bar is Completely Useless with Mark Rippetoe 

Thanks for the video. After watching it I've come to the conclusion that I'm still going to use my trap bar.

"these damn pesky kids with there music and trap bars are ruining the neighborhood"

After watching this, I've decided to order a trap bar

Trap bar is the best way to train for bringing in the groceries in one trip and flexing on neighbour Dads.

Mark definitly made this video directly after falling over with a trap bar.

“The back is the legs of the upper body” Dom’ Mazzetti

This is why I will never use a wheelbarrow, I’ll be dammed if I don’t respect the Sagittal plane

Way back in time, when the first barbell came out, one of Rip's ancestor stood in front of his students and said, "This useless piece of junk is called a barbell. I know that's a rather harsh statement, but I see no point in it...this is now being called a deadlift. This is a barbell. It is not a rock. And to perform a deadlift, you need a rock..."

I have that weird feeling that rip dont like the trap bar

Went to the local small airport, no one had even heard of a sagital plane let alone seen one.

Rip is missing the point of why this is added to military fitness tests. A soldier is much more likely to do weighted carries in the field than static lifts. Trap bar deadlift training carries over (pun intended) to operational fitness more than a conventional competition deadlift.

I have the solutions to all the problems created in this video. 1. Don't let someone push your trap bar during the lift to avoid movement in the sagital plane. 2. Don't rock your hips forwards and backwards with your body while peforming the lift to avoid movement in the sagital plane. 3. Don't supinate and pronate your wrists or move your arms while performing the lift to avoid movement in the sagital plane. 4. Avoid Mark Rippetoe while doing Trap Bar deadlifts to avoid movement in the sagital plane. This made me think. If a movement has so many ways of being "unsafe" doesn't it indirectly prove that it requires proper technique to perform?

The most dangerous thing about a trap bar is having a fat guy appear from nowhere and start pushing it around at the top of your lift

The grumpiest man in fitness.

It doesn’t damage your back nearly enough. Get rid of it!

Have had both knees replaced and the trap bar has been a tremendous assist to be able to continue weight training vs a barbell deadlift

I feel as if I just watched an old man yell at a cloud.

By eliminating trap bar deadlifts from my routine, can I safely assume I'll achieve a similarly impressive physique as the one Rippetoe is rocking?

Somebody send this to Eric Bugenhagen, he'll go nuts :D

I can't do deadlifts or rack pulls because of my back, meanwhile I was able to use the trapbar deadlift with no issues

I always feel like I'm in trouble when I watch Rip's videos.

that gym is stacked with curl racks, love it!

I just started using the trap bar because I have lower back and knee problems. So far it hasn't irritated any of these past injuries. I can't say the same about squats or deadlifts. I still plan on incorporating both of those but I feel like the trap bar is a good supplement to my routine that will add some relief to my back and knees. While still adding strength to core muscles with one exercise.

I've never felt like swinging the trap bar was a problem I had to deal with.

Barbell vs machine argument: having to control free weight is good Anti Trap bar argument: having to control free weight is bad

I love rip. He's not always right, but he is always loud when being wrong. He probably would have hated the invention of the barbell because it was not the rock with which he was taught to lift.

“Jacked quads are better than a jacked up back”- Greg Nuckols “Get off my lawn”- Rip 😂😂😂

As a man who grew up lifting things off each side, and lugging about huge blocks of wood in work, and even pulling a cultivator in the garden when the tractor broke down, I will say this: this guy wouldn't last a day on a farm without having an aneurism.

I feel that a farmer walk with a heavy loaded trap bar builds grip strength, shoulder stability, back, leg and hip strength; all useful for building strength in deadlift and squat. Is this really so useless?

"This useless piece of junk is called..." is also how Rip named his children.

"Why Rippetoe Is Completely Useless With The Trap Bar". Alternate, more appropriate title

As a tall guy with a back problem history, trap bar dls + reverse hypers = gold

When you look up "dogmatic" in the dictionary there is just a picture of a Mark Rippetoe

Someone should train at Rip's gym and only trap bar deadlift, just to bug the shit out of him

For the trap bar devotees, meet your new guru: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bHEKPooLM9Y.html

I maxed my barbell deadlift, then easily matched it with a trap bar. As an older lifter, I also find the trap bar to be more comfortable lift. I understand the movement in the sagittal plane, however, having to pull on the bar in order to demonstrate the instability lessens the effectiveness of the argument. Just show the sway under normal circumstances. “Let me show you the instability by applying a force not included in the movement” is a silly experiment.

I’ve seen a lot more guys get hurt deadlifting with a barbell than with a trap bar.

Why is instability noted as a positive when comparing free-weights to machines (recruiting stabilizing muscles), but not when comparing trap bar to barbell?

If I follow your training protocol will I end up with a gut and a bad attitude?

I bought a trap bar just a few days ago in spite of this video. It arrives on Thursday.

This reminds me of “who needs a computer at home?”

“Old man yells at trapbar”

Barbell deadlifts injured my back and trap bar deadlifts are fixing it.

"That's a nice argument Rip. Why don't you back it up with a source?" Rip: "My source is that I made it the fuck up!"

I quit believing everything Rip had to say when he gave a chili recipe and said it’s ok to leave out overnight because the heat sterilizes it.

"Hips can be in any position with a trap bar" is a feature, not a bug. You can also squat or deadlift with all kinds of hip and knee angles.

What do you think about using the trap bar to load bulgarian split squats or (backward) lunges. This seems to be a better option compared to load it with dumbbells.

I was taught how to deadlift with a conventional barbell in the Army and I can tell you with absolute certainty that I don’t think the standard Soldier has any business in pretending how to teach a conventional barbell deadlift.

This dude is the most dogmatic person I have ever seen. I love the Hex bar at my gym (no high handles, so you are at the same depth, and its a 70lb bar) It is so much more comfortable, and natural feeling. Pull 500 off the ground is pulling 500 off the ground. Do it anyway you want that will keep you healthy, and happy.

This guy is the definition of I want it my way or no way at all. Trap bar has it's pros and cons but so does the barbell deadlift.

The problem with a traditional deadlift is the injury risk for the lower back is higher for untrained individuals. Many army folks don't regularly weight train so they need an exercise that's easy to teach and use for testing. It's not supposed to be specific to a particular movement pattern the army is only concerned with the amount of weight they can pick up.

I’ve never hurt my back with a trap bar… barbell has slipped a disc twice. couldn’t walk for 3 weeks on both injuries. I’ll stick with the trap bar thanks brah

I'm in my late 50s and built size and strength from regular barbell deadlifts/ shrugs however since I started using the trap bar years ago I feel I have made more progress.

Oh, you want sagittal stability that bad? You know what provides it? The smith machine.

very good points. thank you for offering your thoughts on the trap bar.

I have deadlifted barbell for year and a half now. Last week I tried trap bar for the first time, and i was'nt even close to my normal set weight, and it felt so unstable.. when i have 2.5 times BW on my hands, i dont want to any unnessesary wobbling or movements around. ☝️ Very good post. I can relate everthing that the dude is speaking 👌

Why does this guy keep popping up on my feed? Studies have shown the trap bar produces more force, can be used more for greater force. Also may be better for those with lower back problems.

choose an exercise that is less technically demanding and has a lower risk of injury when teaching a incredibly large number of athletes (soldiers).

I actually understand exactly what he's talking about. He makes perfect sense, but only for a certain set of individuals, training for certain goals. I dint recommend a trap bar for new lifters , powerlifters , or other small groups of people who need to be locked into a specific position while training, but for the rest of people, its absolutely fine. I always recommend a rotating routine, switching between bars on a week to week basis. There is no reason not to use both. These bars are tools, use them, and have a greater range of increasing strength and movement. Only when training for a specific goal should be cutting things out and concentrate on a lift like the deadlift. The deadlift is very important, training it is a staple of my training, but how i train it isnt locked in, unless im competing soon. Train however your most comfortable. Its always uo to the individual doing the work, im sorry the trap bar is far from trash, i love it personally. Im getting older, and it makes training a bit easier on my joints and adds more longevity to my training. If i had a show, id train with sololy and Olympic bar, but that would be the only reason, and im done with that for the most part. Lift as you will, brother. If the hex bar adds years to your training and movements , do it.

The fact that hips can be in any position and you can still load extremely heavy is exactly why this is useful Various leverages with unlimited load potential creates a great environment for injury rehabilitation with some serious ass progressive overload That is a incredible opportunity for rehabilitation or poor mobility clients a hell of a tool.

All these starting strength moustaches are beginning to make me think Rip has some sort of Cult in Texas.

Load of rubbish, I have used a trap bar for around 15 years, they are great

I used a trap bar with the raised grips, because I have an L4-L5-S1 full fusion, and I can't do squats with heavy weight. I'm incredibly sore in the correct places a day later, so it's clearly hitting the right areas. It seems a lot safer than having the weight way out in front of your legs, putting your lumbar spine in an awkward position.

"And you know what else grinds my gears!?!??" Is all I heard during this video.

Completely disagree. You’re still picking up a weight from the floor. Yes it changes the position of the back and the location of your grip, but to call it useless and “so dissimilar” from the deadlift is wrong. We trained novice athletes on this and when they transitioned to a barbell, their conventional deadlift increased.

This persuaded me to buy a trap bar: it felt like I was listening to someone forcefully explaining why, say, guns would never hold a candle to bows and arrows.

A conventional deadlift becomes too difficult to do with a double overhand grip before too long and you will have to start using an over/under grip. For me, this feels unbalanced, where my externally rotated arm in the underhand grip has my bicep tearing in no time. Personally, I feel I get better results from alternating Romanian Deadlifts and Pendlay Rows for volume every other workout, and Rack Pulls and Trap Bar Deads on alternating heavy days. There's less overuse because the back is getting slightly different stimulus. The trap bar is fine. It's a useful tool for when conventional gets stale, or when your anthropomatry doesn't favor conventional deads.

Thanks for the video, and explanation. Just ordered my trap/hex bar.

I saw the RU-vid video of Rip answering an older lifter's question about the trap bar. Two weeks later, this video feels like Rip doubling down on silliness. 1. Talking about the sagittal plane and grabbing another person's trap bar at its high point in order to make it swing reminds me of watching a fast talking infomercial huckster do their thing. Nobody grabs another person's bar at its high point. And small movements of a bar at its high point (e.g. the press) requires the body to work on stabilization which doesn't strike me as being a bad thing. But I'd also add, I started using the trap bar 6 months ago and have been lifting over the 405 lbs Rip mentioned in this video, and I have never noticed any swing of the bar in any of my lifts and certainly never felt at risk or any after effects from lifting heavy with a trap bar. 2. I've always assumed that the spotters behind deadlifters at events are because people have passed out after deadlifting to the maximum of their capacity - and having felt briefly light headed after some heavy deadlift pulls, I still think that's the reason. 3. I've never met a person who has injured themselves using a trap bar for heavy lifts. I've met plenty of people who have injured themselves deadlifting with a conventional bar. 4. Greg Nuckols has a really interesting article "Trap Bar Deadlifts are Underrated" comparing the conventional and trap bar deadlifts. He beings with: "I’m a bit ashamed to admit that I used to be a barbell purist. I’m not sure how the idea got lodged in my head, but I spent quite a few years working with the assumption that barbell exercises were always (or almost always) superior to their biomechanically similar, non-barbell counterparts. It took me way too long to realize and accept that trap bar deadlifts are a superior option for most people in most contexts than the straight bar deadlift. Both research and my own self-experimentation helped me see the light." Clearly Rip's not there yet.

How do you feel about trap bar snatches?

Hey Mark, The added instability IS A GOOD THING! Functional strength? Think carrying a couple heavy suitcases!

I'm getting a trap bar because I want to increase my verticle jump. The motion of lifting with a trap bar is more accurate to actually jumping than the motion of lifting a deadlift. You're inertia is being pulled forward with deadlifting, but with trap bars, it mimics a free-weight jump. I don't see how you think it isn't good for strength training though?

This argument is based on an imaginary problem - that while the trap bar is lifted it will suddenly start to oscillate front to back and even side to side. If you lift it correctly - straight up - this will not happen. If some small amount of oscillation does manage to creep its way into the lift, your muscles will be forced to stabilize this movement. This is why loaded carries are useful - they train the body to stabilize a load while moving. This type of strength is extremely useful in real life. Last August I helped my mother move. I didn't pick up a box and then immediately set it down. I picked up a box, walked with it, sometimes up a set of stairs, then put it down. I am not necessarily saying that the trap bar should be a complete substitute for the barbell deadlift, but to say that is is useless is just Rip being his typical dogmatic self which many of us have learned to ignore.

"Dont lift weights" - Rip 2020

Seals use it a lot. One....It’s more catered to carrying weight in the field. It also works better for people recovering from injury, and winds up injuring people a lot less. That’s pretty important if your entire work requires you to carry body armor. No it’s not good for strongmen competitors. But troops typically aren’t bodybuilders. (Some might be but straight up when they try to... and I’ve firsthand seen this...they tend to come close to or completely failing fitness standards like our run or swim and being absolutely useless in extended operations.)

If the title of this video was "why the trap bar is useless for competitive power lifters" it would have been a fine video.

I can picture him petting a barbell telling it it's still superior

no science just plain ole " get off my lawn" talk

Thanks for posting Coach Rippetoe. I 100% agree with everything you said here, it's a really good exposition of the movement. I still like a trap bar though, in part because my PT said uh-huh no way can I do a barbell deadlift safely. I have arthritis in my lower back, apparently, I dunno but it certainly gets messed up at times. That said, I fully agree you can't max out weight on a trap bar. Everything you said here is true; it's a super unstable movement. So I have found I have to pay really close attention to my positions, and make an effort to look every rep look the same, it doesn't happen automatically or easily like with a barbell deadlift. I intend to try to get back to barbell deadlifts, but carefully. My PT is great but she's not omniscient. I own a barbell for my home gym & my trapbar is coming next week. Last time I used one in a gym I could pull 405 without too much trouble, but I could feel it in my pecs & shoulder girdle generally, because of the wide grip, like you said. Not going to pull 500 with a trap bar, but it may go with a barbell. I'm 54 btw, and old guy but not as old as you. :)

The most dangerous part about a trap bar deadlift is that it will make you brutally strong and one dangerous human being.

This is the definition of dogmatic

I know Rip is a legend, but he is as likeable as Isis.

Back in the 1970s a famous powerlifter Dr. Hatfield used a custom made Trap bar that could hold 1000 pounds. He worked out with 1000 pounds on the trap bar to supplement his heavy squats. Dr. Hatfield was one of the first powerlifters to squat 1,000 pounds. His best competition squat was 1014 pounds and he only weighed 255 pounds! Dr. Hatfield knew the value of the trap bar! He also is famous for the Hatfield squat bar. The trap bar is definitely not a piece of junk and it’s also a great way build the legs if people don’t like to have a heavy barbell compressing their spine like on barbell squats.

Trap bar is one of my favorite exercises. I highly recommend it.

Greg Nuckols article about the hinge squat continuum destroys the whole “it’s not a deadlift, it’s a squat” argument, so I’ll just move on from that. The most reasonable point Rip brings up is the vertical arm grip, which I can definitely agree is optimal for pulling maximal weight. In fact, I know some trap bar manufacturers (like Kabuki Strength) have adjustable handle widths, which I think goes a long way towards remedying that issue. Otherwise though, I don’t really consider the TBDL all that worrisome. Use it as an accessory if you do powerlifting or strongman (like Alan Thrall), or even as a primary lift if you’re not interested in competition. I fail to see the harm done in that approach.

“In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few” The trap bar is the only way I can still deadlift and reap the benefits. I’ve had four structural knee surgeries for a fractured kneecap I suffered years ago. I simply can’t barbell deadlift due to that. It’s not form based, it’s structural. The bar unloaded just lightly rolling up my knee by rep 3 or 4 has the ability to cause intense swelling and pain. This keeps me out of the gym and makes it impossible for me to ever properly load the exercise for any benefit. Nothing I can do about that. Trap bar allows me to keep doing a variation of my favourite exercise. Would I prefer to do barbell? Obviously. But life isn’t that simple or cut and dry. This is a super disappointing video to see from someone I have much respect for. If someone was in a wheelchair would you say “seated shoulder press is trash. Standing overhead press is the ONLY way.” Come on Mark....

I fucking love the trap bar deadlift. The most primal of exercises. Works so many muscles. Combine this with a landmine press and you're golden.

Great video and super informative...I agree the trap bar is different from a traditional deadlift. This is evident in the weight difference the same person can pull with the two diffetent bars. This is because you have to train for each differently. Typically your deadlift won't be as strong as with a trap bar. However, I dont think the trap bar is useless. There are several uses that an olympic bar can't do.

One question: if the trap bar is so dangerous, where are all the bodies?

Is mark having an episode of early onset irrelevance?

Oh shit, what if I accidentally violently and aggressively try to swing the trap bar at the top of the lift while I'm holding 400+ pounds? Never thought of that before!

Rip needs a Dylan Mulvaney special edition trap bar, paid for by a federal subsidy for inclusion

Rip has nice theoretical arguments as always, but I don't think any of this has been observed in practice.

Yeah i am sure strongmen worry about the swaying (caused by rip pushing the bar) when doing farmers carrys, I'm sure strong ancient men never had to pick two things with each hand and walk with it...

It sounds like you are agreeing that the trap "squat" might be a good alternative for a front squat for someone with a lower back injury? Also, would the grip rotation prevent the number of bicep tears suffered by those using a mixed barbell grip?

Mark is the man. We decided to do push-ups and sit-ups in the 70s, this is better than that.

Konstantin Konstantinovs was one of the greatest raw deadlifters and predominantly trained trap bar.

It’s really a shame many young lifters listen to this fella like it’s gospel. What about the crazy idea of trap bar deadlifting AND straight bar deadlifting?!? Crazy idea, I know.

Training sagittal plane instability is certainly a practical application in the military, and dare I say, life.

The trap bar gives you a fantastic workout. My deadlift improved drastically after working out with the trap bar. I like old school training but I gladly accept newer technology.