WHY UPGRADING TANKS WITH ERA ISN'T ENOUGH | T-80 vs Super Strv 103 | Armour Penetration Simulation

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A comparison to a previous video with a more period-correct 3BM32 Armour-Piercing Fin-Stabilised Discarding-Sabot projectile (mid-1980's) instead of 3BM9 (mid-1960's).
Previous video: • What if the Strv 103 h...
IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THE ARMOUR IS HYPOTHETICAL, but ERA was apparently considered for the Strv 103 towards the end of its service life. The simulation shows that the ERA is not powerful enough to counter the 3BM32 projectile, where thicker flyer plates and more explosive are needed. However, it is unlikely that the relatively thin armour of the Strv 103 would withstand such an ERA blast (or that the chassis could support the additional weight).
The simulation also serves as a comparison between Depleted Uranium (DU) and Steel APFSDS projectiles against ERA, where significantly less deflection and fracturing is seen on the tougher and more dense DU penetrator.
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1 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 142

@SYsimulations Месяц назад

To clarify, the ERA shown here is hypothetical, but according to some sources, ERA was considered as an upgrade. This simulation investigates the potential effectiveness of 'heavy' ERA for the S-tank and compares the performance against the previous video (essentially showing Steel APFSDS vs DU APFSDS against ERA)

@King.Leonidas Месяц назад

you forgot the Ribs on the plate and this would have not killed the Crew would have been a engine block plus an 10mm spalling plate for it to get to the crew. do it properly for us Sveaboos

@AllMightyKingBowser Месяц назад

In theory, would it have been possible to upgrade the armour to like 60mm + the armor ribs to increase efficiency of both the ERA and protection itself? Assuming it doesn't give too much strain to the suspension and engine.

@ATruckCampbell Месяц назад

@@King.Leonidas Yea those ribs count for something.

@King.Leonidas Месяц назад

@ATruckCampbell 40mm is 40mm

@sullyinanutshell Месяц назад

APFSDS against most angled armor: APFSDS wins.

@rykehuss3435 Месяц назад

yeah its pretty good at resisting deflection

@BloodyCrow__ Месяц назад

In warthunder bmp-2s bounce apfsds on the upper front plate and its so dumb

@notablediscomfort Месяц назад

only cause the armor is thin af

@user-fe7bo5mm1o Месяц назад

if they just added like 30mm more armor it would probably be invincible

@LettuceGamerCoolGuy Месяц назад

@@notablediscomfortcause it has 457mm pen

@M4xPower Месяц назад

Gotta tell you buddy, the text to speech voice overs were a great idea. You deliver interesting info in a very short video format. The multisensory presentation allows me to engage with the info while I watch the simulation. Before them, I had to pause the video to read the cards. I sometimes get recommendations for channels that do similar content, and the voice over makes all the difference.

@95keat Месяц назад

Yeah, I'm surprised the other channels haven't made the change yet tbh.

@cowgoesmoo2 Месяц назад

I mute the videos immediately

@edi9892 Месяц назад

What really surprises me is that so many tanks got such heavy upgrades and the engine and transmission still handle the unexpected load...

@foxy-48514 Месяц назад

they're likely to be upgraded in the process for said charges

@ToxicJelly9 Месяц назад

@@foxy-48514 it's not always the case that the engine actually gets upgraded nowadays, because typically the engine compartment is built to fit the original engine only, and getting more horsepower from the same sized engine typically isn't feasible

@foxy-48514 Месяц назад

@@ToxicJelly9 it can since there's always new ways to improve on designs like the leclerc did for the azur kit and the t-72 for their new era and basically all tanks

@ToxicJelly9 Месяц назад

@@foxy-48514 true, some have definitely done it, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it's the norm unless you are just squeezing a few extra hp from what is effectively the same engine

@foxy-48514 Месяц назад

@@ToxicJelly9 tanks nowadays are made to be modular that's why you could change the engine but ofc it doesn't have to be everytimes you add era or anything else

@Supersean0001 Месяц назад

Not exactly germane to this particular simulation, but I do recall that the original M1 Abrams chassis was designed to handle a total vehicle weight of 80 tons -- 1/3 more than the original M1's 60 tons. Chrysler (the original designers) had ambitions of a whole family of vehicles based on that chassis, none of which ever really came to fruition (certainly not as Chrysler products!). But that's one way to make sure a design can allow for weight growth due to various improvements. It also made those original "lightweight" M1s incredible cross-country machines. I served with a number for former 19Es (M60 tankers) who'd flinch and brace themselves whenever we went over ditches or ruts; the M1 could handle all sorts of terrain that would break torsion bars on the M60A3s they were used to.

@unscentednapalm8547 Месяц назад

The goddamn Germans got nothin' to do with it.

@AllisonAustria-tk5vf Месяц назад

I think he means closely related instead of german or germany

@Supersean0001 Месяц назад

@@unscentednapalm8547 sorry I misspelled it: New Word Of The Day; adjective. ger·mane (ˌ)jər-ˈmān.). 1. : being at once relevant and appropriate : fitting.

@unscentednapalm8547 Месяц назад

r/whoosh

@argy007 Месяц назад

Could you please do a video comparing 3BM42 vs 3BM32 against various targets. These have similar penetration against RHA blocks, but as you already know given your previous videos, 3BM42 has segmented WHA core inside steel sleeve. When Ukraine tested Nizh ERA 3BM42 was the least affected APFSDS of all, leaving a larger mark than 120 mm OFL F1, which has much better RHA penetration. I am also curious about performance of 3BM26 against various targets, which unlike 3BM15 and 3BM22 has a WHA (not WC) core in the rear. It is the last of the Soviet ultra cheap steel APFSDS.

@mohammadshehada267 Месяц назад

What is WHA ?

@Lemard77 Месяц назад

3BM26 against the sloped UFP of the Abrams or the NERA lower front plate would be very interesting compared to 3BM22

@confuseddane9810 Месяц назад

@@mohammadshehada267 Tungsten-Heavy (metal) Alloys

@dmknght8946 Месяц назад

good idea. i would love to see comparion of multiple shell types against armour, or multile armours agianst a shell type to understand more about upgrade

@howieyeungyeung Месяц назад

Although the dart penetrated the armor like nothing, it seems the crew will mostly be unharmed with the engine between the UFP and crew compartment. I think the armor did its job pretty well.

@King.Leonidas Месяц назад

he also forgot the 80mm ribs on the plate XD

@AKAtheA Месяц назад

the engine is mostly hollow cast iron and you still have thumb-sized bits of uranium hauling ass @ Mach 3...it'll do fuck all, the crew compartment is getting breached

@fire_drake12.arc.24 Месяц назад

@@AKAtheAyou underestimate how quickly things can be slowed down by even air. The plates separating the crew from the engine bay as well as the ammunition bay in the back are around 35mm thick. A jagged piece of small uranium quickly slowing down and tumbling through engine components, radiators, and air is likely not going to penetrate that wall. The part that may do that is the larger chunk of the remaining rod. The cheese wedge tank was designed with that in mind.

@cat_clan_leader Месяц назад

@@AKAtheAthere's a thick wall of spall liner to prevent this. They knew that this slope wouldn't be enough at times

@aymanayad7230 Месяц назад

but now your tank is immobilized and you cant even shoot back

@Apollo_1641 Месяц назад

Hello, can you make a simulation of 20mm DM63 APDS? One at close range, and one at 1000m to see how it affects performance? According to Gaijin's in-house calculator this round only has 66mm flat penetration at 10m and quickly falls off over distance. I don't think this is the case.

@YeOldeBoBSMITH Месяц назад

At this angle it looks like it would hit a second ERA plate mounted above the first one.

@gheetza14 Месяц назад

Hello. I have, what I think is an interesting "what-if" suggestion. 2 years ago you posted 2 videos, exploring the shot traps of the different Panther mantlet designs. There is a Panther in Thum, Switzerland, that, at first glance, has an A/D mantlet with the bottom side straighened. I was wondering if you could do a third "M72 vs Panther mantlet" video, imagining the germans transitioning to a mantlet of this design, instead of the actual G mantlet. I call this a "what-if" suggestion, because that mantlet is actually a post war sheet metal replacement, missing holes for the gunners sight or a coaxial machinegun. Number of times I commented this: 3 I will _try_ to link a video of it in the replies to this comment, but you know how youtube is about deleting links.

@gheetza14 Месяц назад

h I have t absolutely t no p ideea s if : this / is / going v to m work, . right t now i I am k simply t writing o words k to . mask c the o link m in / hopes Z it G doesn't e get C deleted 8 by W youtube's 8 filter, D this k is / the fourth comment I have made, all using different methods, thus far all have been useless.

@staffancallert Месяц назад

The armour model dont include the horisontal ribs. They must have some protecting effect

@im_org4459 Месяц назад

hat is your software for simulate thoose vids? and are thoose file simulation is open to doanload online?

@o-hogameplay185 Месяц назад

can you simulate RHA vs an armor made out of chromium? like 2 tests, 1 with same thickness, and a second test where the chromium has the same mass as the RHA plate.

@tokencivilian8507 Месяц назад

Wow. Hot knife through butter with that DU APFSDS vs the previous vid with the steel APFSDS. Great stuff as always SY.

@ViperBenchmarks Месяц назад

How much effective is sand in between armor against HEAT and APDST in compare to empty space ?

@HailAzathoth Месяц назад

You should do some sims comparing standard armor with exotic metals like osmium and tungsen. Be interesting to see how very dense metals behave against apfsds

@dominuslogik484 Месяц назад

somewhere either on this channel or another one there is a simulation of at least RHA, Tungsten, depleted Uranium and aluminum. of course the brittleness wasn't properly accounted for in these tests IIRC but the density and hardness was.

@PuffyUnitedOfficial Месяц назад

How do you make these?

@WelcomeToDERPLAND Месяц назад

Honestly, they should just double if not triple the armour thickness with new welded on plates, then add ERA and perhaps upgrade the engine and re-introduce the STRV, the thing is a monster for how old it is, even to this day imo, modern ammunition could make the original gun still viable against 90% of opponents as well.

@ToxicJelly9 Месяц назад

True, to save some of the added weight, could simulate exactly how much armour the best modern apfsds could penetrate on the STRV's front angle, then fix on composite plates to bring it just above that thickness. And I bet there's a modern engine they could switch in there that gets some more hp/tonne

@WelcomeToDERPLAND Месяц назад

@@ToxicJelly9 I mean, even if they didn't swap the engine, it would still function, it would just be even more of an ambusher than it previously was- more like an ye olden days TD than a MBT (which is what they tried to make it into)

@joost1120 Месяц назад

@@ToxicJelly9 If only upgrading armour was that simple. Increasing armour thickness also drastically increases the weight, upsetting the balance and suspension. You'd need a stronger engine, stronger suspension and possibly even a completely new hull to support the weight. There's a reason most armour upgrade packages don't just slap a new plate on the front and call it a day.

@ToxicJelly9 Месяц назад

@@joost1120 uhhh, all of the leopard 2 upgrade packages literally slap armour on top of existing armour with few other modifications, think the 80mm arrowhead applique on the Leo turret, or the same on the front of the hull. Not to mention the SEP V2 package for Abrams adding literal tonnes of ERA to the whole thing, and challenger 2 doing something similar. They have had minimal upgrades elsewhere regarding engine or suspension, as this is typically performed to existing tanks

@softerseltzer Месяц назад

A 300$ drone will drop right onto the triple armor and pen it with an RPG round.

@jovanbernido4800 26 дней назад

What website do you use. I wanna try

@grub__ Месяц назад

Would like to see how 317mm RHA only on a 82° angle performs against 3BM60.

@dominuslogik484 Месяц назад

After seeing this I would really like to see some other tank types using Heavy ERA that they never received such as the M60 or really anything with sufficiently thick armor to handle the blast of a heavy ERA panel without cracking its own armor.

@amp5275 7 дней назад

There is a video in this channel of a T62 with a Relikt-like ERA on it against a 105mm m833 round from an early Abrams. Spoiler: Round penetrates, but reduction of penetration effectiveness of the round is substantial.

@DaReaperZ Месяц назад

Wonder if angling the era plates up a bit would increase their effect on the projectile

@andrewreynolds912 Месяц назад

This is why we need armor that's better, like metal foam, which could have much better abilities to absorb the energy of an incoming round, and is a fraction of the weight will come the future. Metal foam and ceramic foam could be the next thing needed to counter APFSDS rounds.

@ser43_OLDC Месяц назад

What the lenth and width of 3bm32?

@NganPham-lh2xk 26 дней назад

You can make panzershreck german 88mm vs m48 patton Shell 140mm tank

@poggyfroggy_isntmine4596 Месяц назад

absolutely love the videos, would love to see the fv4202s front turret armour against br-412d or some more overpressure simulations

@WandererJester Месяц назад

Would you be interested in doing a video looking at differences in Armor hardness against the same shell? I.E. 100mm thick 220 BHN versus 265 against say the Kwk 40 or something else to test the difference in penetrative ability the shell would have? The curious thought being how much of a difference does it make against a higher hardness round like the PzGr39

@user-vp8pd1in6m 26 дней назад

can you make panzershreck german 88mm vs m48 patton shell 140mm pls im like your video😃

@NK-qn6pq Месяц назад

The base armor isn't nearly good enough.

@ThorSuzuki1 Месяц назад

The armor is its slope. But yes, this armor was not designed to counter APFSDS.

@mirroredvoid8394 17 дней назад

0.1mm ERA plate at 60 degrees vs 380mm Radioactive waste shell

@KiteeTheFox Месяц назад

Needs more ERA

@S1su 28 дней назад

Just found out your name is Samuel, same as mine :) hello from Finland

@OfNaught Месяц назад

Just add another layer of ERA on top of the ERA, easy. Actually though, it would be interesting to see if stacking ERA does anything, and if there was a more optimal way to design stacking ERA, even if it would be impractical IRL.

@King.Leonidas Месяц назад

Crew survived the hit at least, might be able to reverse with 1 engine

@ToxicJelly9 Месяц назад

Add era, and underneath that a layer of applique composite armour and boom, STRV is back in action, baby! Maybe even an engine upgrade to bring it up to modern spec and offset the added weight

@neurofiedyamato8763 Месяц назад

The gun is still lackluster. Also upgrading a engine is easier said than done. There is also suspension to gold the weight and fire control systems to stay competitive. Even then it lacks stabilization for firing on the move. At that point it is cheaper to get a new tank in the long term.

@ToxicJelly9 Месяц назад

@@neurofiedyamato8763 yeah, thought maybe rebuilding nearly from scratch but borrowing design elements (ie armour angle, turret-less, suspension control, engine placement) from the STRV makes more sense. Upgrading the gun to 120mm, for instance

@AllMightyKingBowser Месяц назад

IS-7 130mm or M103 120mm VS Maus II frontal turret armor would be awesome. Maus II turret was what the E-100 turret in World of Tanks has, 220mm (or 230) at 30 degrees angle. Would be a good comparison to tge already made sim for regular Maus turret of 230mm but with no angle whatsoever.

@darionapoli4736 Месяц назад

The WoT E100 turret had 270mm at the front, but used to be 250mm. I think 250mm is the closest value to the real thing.

@AllMightyKingBowser Месяц назад

@@darionapoli4736 I know, I am just talking in realistic terms, thats why I proposed the intended 220mm and not the in-game 270mm which is given for balance.

@Scha123f Месяц назад

Very nice video

@FinnisJaeger Месяц назад

Do this but with NERA package to strv 103

@TheAnnoyingF2P Месяц назад

That is already some thin armor. I'd be interested in knowing the difference in philosophies behind adding ERA to modern MBTs or not doing so. The Russians cover everything in ERA bricks when they attempt to modernize, yet tanks like the Abrams and Leo 2 don't subscribe to that philosophy. Even Abrams in Ukrainian service have seen ERA bricks applied to the hull.

@King.Leonidas Месяц назад

USA used ERA on the entire lower side of the tank

@Ghent_Halcyon Месяц назад

Well, sorry to say, but it wasn’t going to use ERA, it was NERA. Not sure how NERA works, might as well be manic to me, but I’m sure it would end with a much different outcome. Although, even with the ERA, the shell was completely used, leaving only shrapnel to try and damage a 10-15mm armored plate separating the crew from mobility. So it would have worked, maybe with minor damage to mobility, but it likely couldn’t take more than one hit in the same spot or near the same spot.

@Kabuumx2 Месяц назад

Could you do a test on the t72 hull while being entrenchend in sand like some tanks in iraq.

@MarcinP2 Месяц назад

It just shows ERA is difficult to design, it's not just slapping two plates together and calling it fine. In this case the front ultra thin plate was expected to do all the lifting. The rear plate travels too fast, neither plate is angled and you only used one layer of ERA. That said IRL they add additional plate to use more explosive and more plate safely.

@MarcinP2 Месяц назад

Where did the spaced rods go?

@HitchLangley 25 дней назад

Sometimes I want to see penetration in real speed, not slowed down 😁 Just to see, how deadly fast the projectile goes through armor (with all of these armor fragments)

@willyvereb Месяц назад

Wouldn't it be caught by the spall plates so the very least it wouldn't harm the crew? Also the tank has two engines so even disabling one wouldn't disable the tank. I think it'd have been sufficient already.

@deathdragon2283 28 дней назад

The thinner plate in the ERA is too thin to function. It’s to fast for the penetrator to catch before it strikes the main armor. Ideally that plate is moving just slightly slower than the projectile it’s meant to counter

@WelcomeToDERPLAND Месяц назад

Shouldnt be too surprising, even at the insane angle that the STRV gets- its only 30mm

@Nitrous_oxide_addict Месяц назад

Why is there no ribs

@Sh-epard Месяц назад

Well the ERA did a great job into erode the penetrator, not enough like Kontakt-5 or Relikt, but still better than nothing. Sure it's a hypothetical upgrade, but considering how much the Vant round was fielded alongside other models (outdated and modern, DU rounds were still a new thing in Soviet Union as the 3BM32 was made), the previous sim was enough credible into a possible combat scenario.

@ProbablyAutisticMaybe Месяц назад

Put more ERA

@user-lv6ui2bp7i 29 дней назад

Как игра называется?

@shawn7889 Месяц назад

Now super 103C (bar armor) :)

@nakolulu411 Месяц назад

What if you used the Russian Relict ERA

@Das_Red Месяц назад

why cant sweden add another layer of armor

@anonymlpa3854 26 дней назад

when war thunder sponsored video?

@greenvillequeen4084 Месяц назад

What is this simulator

@Puuugggg Месяц назад

Yeah what is it

@MrSquigglies Месяц назад

Hmm. What would additional applique armor do in addition to the ERA? Does perhaps just an additional inch or so make a difference?

@ToxicJelly9 Месяц назад

An extra inch always makes a difference 😉

@BesoffenerIslamist Месяц назад

IS-3 vs Biden accelerated to 1000km/h pls

@oddforoddssake3751 Месяц назад

Strv 103 with ERA looks awesome tho

@Gjldo Месяц назад

yeha but inthe soviet docrine the main AT round was heat, so ERA was more then enough in REAL life

@corporationi4785 Месяц назад

ADD MORE ERA - a russian designer

@Losowy Месяц назад

NERA:

@testboga5991 Месяц назад

Tin can vs sledgehammer😅

@ZakarovWTM Месяц назад

This guy needs to be a Professional War thunder player he knows everything about tanks!!????

@MrBejkovec 23 дня назад

Very unlikley scenario. Poor Soviet training, poor Soviet optics, superior Strv-103 'sneakability' and low profile. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand...the scarcity of the ammunition. It's...'lovely' to see all the comments praising the T-80. But if it got to it...Soviets would stand no chance in the open Cold war.

@LiezAllLiez Месяц назад

Honestly, i find the commentary annoying. I can read. I dont need it read to me.

@ukuskota4106 Месяц назад

Tarasenko will say: "Nizh is enough"😄

@temong0long054 Месяц назад

And that's not even the most modern russian Apfsds.

@hennga2053 Месяц назад

40mm pure steel behind light era isn't even close to modern armor.

@okakokakiev787 Месяц назад

Pretty much Abrams ufp@@hennga2053

@jakobgottfriedowitsch3291 29 дней назад

Взрывчатку пробивает без последствий, как там на вашенском.. . OMG

@jakobgottfriedowitsch3291 29 дней назад

Какая-то хрень на худоязыком

@PeterMuskrat6968 Месяц назад

Somebody tell that to the Russians then... they seem to not have the money nor the technical knowledge to build anything that isn't based off the aging and very much inferior T series design. (The T-14 doesnt count, considering they've abandoned development because of cost and difficulty of manufacture) I've said it a million times... Heavy Anti-Kinetic ERA is a poor man's tank armor. You can put all the Relikt you want on your T-90M... it's still going to get schwacked by an Abrams firing M829A4. We know where your weakest spots are, and you throwing as much Heavy ERA on those areas make it clearer.