Why We Don't See This Physics Defying Pitch Anymore - The Mythical Screwball 

Comment #2000! Thanks for all your support on this video!!

“You only need two pitches. One they’re looking for, and one they ain’t. “- Dizzy Dean

"Screwballs aren't hard to hit, when you can hit'em." Yogi Berra

I learned in high school that I threw a natural screwball. I went from center field to pitcher. It was the only thing I knew to throw. Thank you, coach Lovell Smith for discovering this!

One year I was catcher for our little league team and our pitcher was amazing. This was a 15 year old kid and he could throw any pitch there was. He could curve a ball in almost any direction and the amount of break his pitches had was incredible to witness. His knuckle balls were all over the place and were just as hard to catch as they were to hit. His change ups were so drastic they appeared to slam on the breaks at the last second and I dreaded his fast balls, they used to hurt sooo bad. Three out of four years he was pitching we had an undefeated season and we made it to all-state playoffs. If the rest of us had been better this kid could have carried us to a Little League Championship. I thought for sure we would end up seeing him playing for the pros someday. Never did.

I can't resist adding that Screwball pitcher Carl Hubbell, in the 1934 All Star game, struck out in order, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Jimmy Foxx, Al Simmons, & Joe Cronin. All 5 of them HOF.

“Wouldn’t be hard to hit if the hitter was expecting it...” Cuts to B roll of Astros hitting. Lovely

I’m 57 years old now and I threw a screwball for four years of high school baseball in the early eighties. Mike Marshall actually played for the Minnesota Twins as his last team and I met him once and he showed my how he threw it with finger placement and all. I never had any major injuries but then again I never played after high school. I have often wondered why not many in the big leagues throw it anymore. I had reasonably good control of it and would usually get similar speed as my fastball because you can only twist your arm (obviously) only slightly.

3:57 That was an insane curve... As a kid, I was under the impression that a pitcher just through it fast and as straight as possible - the idea being to get the ball pass the batter. Growing older, I've realized that (obviously) there's more to it than that. It has always intrigued me how a pitcher can make a ball do different things just by grabbing the ball differently and changing a few minor forces in a throw that's already involving so many moving parts of your body. And then the batter has like .5 seconds to notice and respond to a ball flying at him... what an interesting game.

I don’t see them “extinct” as much as rebranded a sinking 2-seamers and circle changeups. Personally I threw my change and had a reverse slider rotation like a screwball and could even pull down on the front of the ball to give it more vertical break. Maybe the “grip” of the screwball - offset FB with pressure pushing the ball outside the hand is not seen as much, but the action of screwballs is alive and well today more than ever.

I’ve been throwing this pitch for the last 25 years in adult baseball with great success. You don’t get as many strikeouts as a normal pitcher but what you do get a lot of is weak contact, which helps tremendously on defense.

I’m always amazed at the accuracy of pitchers. To see a ball do such crazy stuff, and still go pretty much where the pitcher wants, is astounding.

My older brother is a tall left hander who threw hard but everytime he threw it moved like a screwball. Even when he threw from the outfield the ball tended to drift to his left. I've not seen anyone with as much natural movement as his throws. He got to be able to control it better and played for a league in Virginia / Maryland/ Pa in the 80s.

All I know is that it was very hard on my arm (in hs) and I had quit trying to throw it. Yes, I had "proper" mechanics for it, and it still hurt. That doesn't mean other people can't throw it. We're all made a little different.

Late in his career, Greg Maddux’s 2-seamer was practically a screwball.

For the first few months of Valenzuela's first year with the Dodgers, he was not only almost unhittable but also has had the best batting average of the team.

You know where I grew up when I mention: - How fruitless it was to watch Tug McGraw throw his screwball at Shea - What a thrill to see him bang his glove against his leg at The Vet - The final pitch of the 1980 World Series... - An LP with Tug narrating "Casey at the Bat" with the Philly Pops Orchestra - After many years of estrangement, Tug and his famous son, Tim, reunited - Watching Tug ride the perimeter of the field at Veterans Stadium the last time that it was open to the public - The sadness of losing Tug to a brain tumor - His screwball saved many games for the Mets and the Phillies.

If you're a few years older, you'll remember pitchers who were referenced by announcers as junkballers. They were always tossing screwballs, forkballs, and the like. I can't remember the last time I heard an announcer use that term. Needless to say, I'd like to see those old pitches re-emerge again.

The screwball went extinct, just like running hard to first base on a ground ball.

My grandfather played AA minor leagues (back before WW2 and AAA lol) and I believe pitched sometimes (although he was primarily a short stop I think). When he was teaching me how to play he showed me how to throw a screwball but I could never get it. He thought of it more as a novelty and said it was way to unpredictable / hard to control even though it was a beast to try to hit one.

Willie Hernandez was another who won a Cy Young relying on his screwball. I learned the grip and how to throw it watching Monday Night Baseball back in the early 70s. I forget the pitcher who was in that segment but for a guy like me, a utility player who pitched batting practice simply because I could throw strikes consistently, it gave me a breaking pitch I could actually throw on those rare occasions when the coach would let me pitch in a live game. So here's a thumbs up from an old screwballer who was a bench player because he couldn't hit pitches like the screwball.

Fernando was just awesome! I can remember in the late 1960s watching a Dodgers game at my grandmother's house. Jim Brewer was pitching for L.A. and Vin Scully called him a screwball pitcher, which of course he was. My grandmother thought that was a very rude thing to call the pitcher. Why did he call him a screwball? I miss you, Grandma!

I threw this pitch with great success. And in my 40s while coaching high school baseball, struck out the entire team with that pitch, at one practice just because they said I couldn't.

I got away with throwing it in high school, but in college, the slower speed and movement led to it getting hit much more than the curve. It would hang more. And that's the consensus I got from other pitchers who threw it. You just can't get as much movement or speed on pushing with the outside of your fingers, compared to pulling with the inside of your fingers.

I think you might have missed one, Randy Jones, of the Padres. He was one of the best screwballers,of all times. His screwball was so devastating, that Pete Rose hit left handed against him, so he wouldn’t have to see it! Pretty special.

3:55 is one of the nastiest pitches I've ever seen. My jaw dropped.

When we were kids my brother taught me how to throw a curve. I was 11. It worked. My dad taught me how to throw a knuckleball. It worked, too. At the school library I took out a book. It was a biography of Carl Hubbell. In it he explained how he threw the screwball. So, I practiced throwing it to my brother. It took a couple days, but it worked as well. Not great, but just enough. So, my last year in Little League I was a junkballer. lol Threw 3 no-hitters and 6 complete games. My record was 7-0. Led the league in ERA, strikeouts, wins and walks. lol Then puberty hit just about everybody except me for Pony League. Man, what difference a year makes. I got lit up every time I pitched. lol Ended up platooning in right field. The shame! Right field! From the penthouse to the outhouse in one year. EDIT: Forgot to mention. I led the league in HBP as well. My knuckleball went everywhere. lol

What about Tug McGraw? He threw the scroogie, too. Nice choice of music, btw. First movement of Beethoven's Eroica Symphony.

With any pitch, the “last finger to touch the ball” is what determines what direction the ball will move. Today’s pitchers have the ability to move the same pitch in both directions with the same arm slot and release point simply by finger pressure. As a pitching coach, I show pitchers how to do it with no additional stress on the arm. Just yesterday a 14 year old threw 20 two-seam fast balls alternating left and right breaking about 8 inches. The sweet spot on a bat is only about 6 inches wide so this is enough movement to cause poor contact. Plus it is a great way to self correct if the pitcher is missing the zone consistently. At 56 years of age I can still make a circle change move in both directions as much as a curve ball, so why throw a curve?

I think every pitcher should have a knuckleball, eephus, or some “junkball” pitch in his back pocket for the 3rd time through the order. Something to throw off hitters as they just start to get comfortable.

Vin Scully would say back in the 60's when Dodger's reflief pitcher Jim Brewer was pitching...."screwball got him looking....."

This video keeps getting better and better!! Way to go Humm Baby!!!!

When I was pitching (saber tooth tigers were still common in SoCal) I threw a fastball, a "twelve to six" curve, and my favorite, a knuckle curve thrown sidearm. That pitch had a big break but was slow and only used against right hand batters. Once in a while I'd throw a screwball. The stress was on the index and middle fingers not the elbow. Easy to throw but hard to control. I might throw it 1:2 or 0:2 but only those counts.

What happened to The Screwball? Well, you can't measure it on the radar gun in the 90-mph range so the fastest-ball-minded scout ignores its beauty.

You didn't mention Willie Hernandez. Yeah, he was just a relief pitcher, but in his career year:1984 when he won the Cy Young & MVP awards, he went 9-3 in addition to his 32/33 saves and pitched 140 innings which is unheard of for closers today. He relied on the screwball heavily.

As an old Phillies fan, I can’t believe you didn’t reference Tug McGraw. His screwball helped us win our first World Series in 1980.

The Screwball is a very difficult pitch to throw because of the reverse twisting of the arm. No one throws it anymore because of that reason and because the split fingered fastball does the same thing but better, and is a much easier pitch to throw.

This video is like me writing an essay in high school where there was a word limit. It keeps repeating points lol

That pitch at 3:55 is amazing. Completely unhittable.

Thanks for choosing that music. Not all baseball fans drag their knuckles on the ground.

I’d be curious to know whether elbow ligament tears are universal to the game or just something Americans deal with because the insane stress put on the arm by the mechanics in American pitching

You forgot Tug McGraw! Threw one of the nastiest “scroogies”👍

Following the advice of Warren Spahn, Jim Brewer developed a screwball to become one of the most successful relievers in the National League in the 1960s and 1970s.

I was born 1960, started pitching in Little League 1970, going into the 5th grade. Threw a fastball, a dropping curve, and what is called a 'change up' (slower pitch). When I wasn't pitching I played catcher. The summer after 8th grade, going into high school, the game is now on a 'full-size' field. Much more time for the ball to break, but I definitely realized my fastball wasn't near as fast. So, against the advice of coaching, I began working on the screwball, and the knuckleball. I loved them both, being fascinated with the characteristics of both. I found all pitches could go wild on me pretty easy if I let up on my concentration, with the increased distance of the regulation size field. I could now aim my drop curve at a right-hander's head and watch the ball slide right into the glove. The batter would stand up...STRIKE! Left-hander sets the bat on his shoulder...STRIKE! I only threw the screwball when I had a hitter at the plate. However I practiced throwing it a lot. Gradually my fastball got faster, and by the next year I seldom tossed a knuckleball. My pitching style was straight over the top, like a windmill- no side-arm, going closer to 3/4 with my fast curve. All of this to say, that after only two years of throwing the screwball, to this day my right arm, at the elbow, will still not stretch out straight, like my left. Can't imagine what condition my arm would've ended up if I'd have kept on. I was always a football player first, and dedicated myself as such my last two years of high school as a cornerback/safety. My advice to younger players would be to hold off on the screwball until college level. However, that's what my coach told me. Probably equivalent to asking a junior high football player to wear some damned knee pads these days. "Son, if ya put your hand in that fire, it's gonna..." Oh, well...

I actually know how to throw this pitch effectively! I taught myself how to do it, but I always thought I was throwing a forkball. When I snap my wrist I turn my fingers towards my glove hand, causing the ball to turn like an opposite curveball. I love it!

I think you meant: “scouting reports are everywhere, iPads are in the dugouts, trash cans are in the dugout. When they know what’s coming....etc.”

Its still thrown. Its just not called a screwball. In today's pitcher training its called pronation. The more pronation you let happen naturally, the more movement your 2 seam and change up will have to arm side. Just don't forcibly twist the wrist, forearm, elbow in an attempt to get more spin.

I don't watch baseball. I haven't played since grade school. I know nothing about the major league. I still watched this whole video. Fascinating stuff. Truly.

Greg Maddux was deadly with a backdoor breaking ball to R handed hitters. He would break it back over the outside and leave batters dumbfounded. I can't believe you didn't mention him in your video. Very well done regardless. Enjoyed it.

Mike Marshall pitched in 108 games with over 200 relief innings during his Cy Young year. Imagine a modern reliever doing that.

Fernando Valenzuela is the man!

just came across this channel... GREAT job!!!

3:57 : That Oliver Drake screwball is one of the nastiest pitches I’ve ever seen. Wow!😮

Imagine if Colon threw it. 2 seam Cutter 4 seam Screwball Slider Forkball

The “screwball” for some pictures came by way of what was called a “circle change up” which had similar action as a screwball but came at a slower pace. Doyle Alexander had one of the best circle change ups

I’ve always like the idea of revolutionary players becoming more and more “obsolete” as the sport evolves because their techniques/knowledge has become mainstream. It’s just so fascinating, especially in non-physical sports like esports or card games since players careers are much longer than traditional sports.

In the seventh grade i started throwing it and it was marvelous. My dad was unknowingly at the game and told me after the game he had never seen me throw with that much movement on the ball. We were the bad news bears of our school league but that day we won and it was one of the most memorable games I played it. Almost fourty years later I still smile about that day. Baseball is the only sport worth playing in my opinion.

Devin Williams throws a hybrid changeup screwball which is insane. He literally holds it in a change up grip but does the screw ball release with his arm and wirst.

Life long Mariners fan and watched King Felix pitch his entire career. Felix developed probably thee nastiest circle change ever. It moved exactly like a screw ball.

I spent most of my playing days behind the plate but occasionally would be called upon to pitch. I had very little speed but could throw all kinds of “junk”. A natural screwball, a result of throwing 3/4 sidearm, was one one of the pitches I relied on.

Not sure why people think it's such a weird pitch. Just a different snap(a fairly unhealthy one, it can hurt). Screwball was replaced with a circle-change and a 2 seam fastball. Also, you're not throwing a screwball "as hard as you can". It's a breaking ball, it's about accuracy. I threw a screwball for a few years early on. Caused me some pain sometimes but it was effective. Once I learned a circle change AND a 2-seamer, there was no need. Plus a screwball is very hard to control IMO.

Perfect explanation for something that has long wondered me. Your call for a secret, once-n-a-rare-moment, weapon is spot-on.

I know I’m late, but I am shocked that you didn’t mention lefty righty splits. In my mind this is a great pitch for a pitcher who is facing someone that hits significantly better against their hand. Typically you hit the opposite throwing hand better as a hitter, so in my mind this is a great pitch to throw in that situation as a pitcher. No clue if that makes sense or not haha

Good information on the screwball when I was playing in the 60s and 70s as a lefthanded pitcher it was how I threw naturally, when I was done pitching and played in the outfield (because I could hit) I would have to compensate for it on a hard throw back into the infield especially home, but when tossing the ball it was not an issue. Hardest part was getting infielders and catchers to wait for it.

I’m not a sports fan but, I always find the history and strategy (particularly of baseball) to be fascinating.

The 1984 World Champion Detroit Tigers had incomparable reliever Willie Hernandez throwing the screwball. That pitch was absolutely devastating to hitters that year.

Oliver Drake’s “screwball” is actually a splitter, although it sure does move like a screwball. Perhaps because of the way he contorts his body when he throws it. Also, Brent Honeywell has now finally made it into the big leagues and still has the screwball! So his injuries luckily didn’t affect his intentions to throw it.

Great piece. But you forgot to name the guy we see first-- Mike Cuellar. Had his greatest years with the Orioles. From '69 - 71 won 23, 24 and 20. Then Cuellar won 22 in '74 on the way to winning 125 games between '69 - '74. Shared the Cy Young with Denny McClain in 1969, becoming the first player who wasn't born in the US to ever win the Cy Young. In '66, with the Astros, his 2.22 was second only to Sandy Koufax-- and included a 15 strikeout game against the Cardinals. Great pitcher. Terrific character-- one of the most superstitious players in baseball history. Mike Cuellar was a credit to baseball.

I think the biggest reason pitchers don't throw screwballs is that it beats the $h!t out of your arm, especially the elbow. Pitching a baseball overhand is unnatural enough, and tears up a pitcher's arm enough as it is without the additional strain of throwing a screwball. There are still a few pitchers that will throw one on occasion, but the last pitcher that I recall who threw a screwball as a regular part of his repertoire was Tug McGraw (and that was a wicked screwball). I know Valenzuela threw one, too, but I can't recall how much of his normal pitching it was. It has been said that Carl Hubbell threw so many screwballs that as he aged, he could not hold his pitching arm in a natural position, with the palm of the hand facing the body...it was naturally turned out. Great video....really liked the one about the knuckleball, too.

As a catcher, I had to adjust my throws to 2nd base on steals to account for the screwball drift effect of about a 3’ drift to the right. When I was in the outfield, I had about a 6’-8- drift to home plate from right center. It was a natural throw for me.

Astros: we have a new code for that one, Long bang, long bang, short bang.

You hit the nail on the head at 4:30 with the screwball breaking away in the opposite direction of almost any other pitch. The only pitch I can think of that breaks back/away would be a 2 seam fast ball, but obviously far less movement with that pitch. I could see the screwball becoming a dominant pitch again if we see a high end pitcher blaze the trail.

I used to throw this pitch when I was younger. It is kinda rough on the elbow. But as said used sparingly and in the right situations. It's nice to have in your arsenal.

Well done Erik ! Fernando was fun to watch. His rookie year hitters were toast.

John Franco was throwing screwballs well into his 40's its an insanely tough pitch to throw accurate and to not screw up the release

I don't know if the "Screwball" as its named really went anywhere. The 2-seam fast ball... with the right finger placement, and pressure can produce a gnarly break. Follow that up with a circle change hanging off that back of the pitchers palm, and turn the hand over slightly in delivery and you have a nasty "screwball" break with the speed of a change up that looks like a 2-seam. When I pitched, I would use my 2-seam to set up my change, which in turn set up slider, or curveball. There are so many ways to produce break with a myriad of pitches that some pitches just aren't worth the time to develop. Love this content!!!

Thanks for doing this! Not being an ardent baseball fan since I was much younger, I’ve become a fan again in recent years and I’ve been wondering why this pitch seemed to have disappeared!

I’ve always had a fascination with this particular pitch. I’d love to see it come back too

The circle change has somewhat evolved to fill the void that the screwball has left. Many pitchers put lateral spin on the ball so that it breaks toward the dominant hand of the pitcher.

Always loved a screwball pitcher. Got to see one live, and it was wicked to watch.

I'm fascinated by the screwball. It is a pitch I remember from my youth and I would love to see it come back, even as you say, as a rarely used but potent weapon in a few select pitchers back pocket. It is a fun pitch to watch and especially if a pitcher has a strong curve it seems to me a screwball paired with it, say 10% of the time, could be utterly devastating. More, with all the priority that is given today on pitching velocity the screwball somewhat acts as a pitch to mess up a hitters timing. Stephen Strasburg throws a changeup that breaks similar to a screwball. I didn't know the part about how the pitch isn't any more stressful on a pitchers arm than a fastball and I agree that with as often as pitchers are injured in the game these days anyway, there couldn't be much of a difference. I would be curious to know if the pitch is any more common in Japan where there is more emphasis on pitches with break and if maybe the pitch will return from there as more Japanese and other asians sign with teams in Major League Baseball after Shohei Ohtani has taken the league by storm. Thanks for the video.

Knuckleball needs to be brought back to

Reminds me of the knuckleball, seldom seen and reminds me of a bygone era. Come to think of it, I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a forkball being used regularly.

Well researched and Documented!! Thank you!

I remember how unhittable Fernando was the first few weeks of the 1981 season. His screwball baffled almost everybody. And I can remember watching a Dodgers game back in the 60s while visiting my grandmother. Vin Scully referred to the Dodgers' ace reliever as a "screwball pitcher," and my grandmother just thought that was so rude!

As someone who used to throw them (before watching this video), I'll say what ended it for me: I threw my arm out. It's never been the same since. I still can't throw a pitch quickly anymore. Your arm is NOT meant to do that, even if you cause players to jump backwards for almost every strike (it really does curve that much). Edit: So I watched the video, and I'll have to disagree with that study on the premise of why the pitch is dangerous. I think the pitcher was preserving his arm and got all his pitches right. Unfortunately it's a pitch that punishes you extra hard for going too far, and it's extremely easy to go too far. The arm tends to twist under the ball, and the elbow can easily be in front of the ball at one brief point during the pitch. Then, at the end of the motion, when everything is twisted and extended, there is no natural follow-through motion for the body and shoulder (unless you want to spin in place for every pitch and lose velocity on the ball) so the arm locks up suddenly. Imagine slamming a door with the hinge installed folded the wrong way. Sure, as long as you don't put too much pressure on it, it'll just slam partially open. But the moment you go a little too far, you have either bent the hinge or ripped the screws out of the frame.

Yes Humm Baby! When I pitched on the varsity during my high school senior year I threw what you would call a screwball. It broke into and down to a right hitting. Batter and away from a lefty. Was a very effective pitch. I never threw at high velocity and never suffered arm problems. Keep the faith. 😀👍⚾

I grew up watching Warren Spahn throw the screwball for the then Milwaukee Braves. His career lasted 26 years during which he went 363/245 with 382 complete games. His pitching motion was effortless. I was lucky enough to be in the stands when Spahn won his 300th game and again when he broke the record for southpaws. He held the record for career strikeouts by a lefty with 2,583 (later broken by Micky Lolich).

First time visiting your channel. Really enjoyed this video. I will browse your play list for a knuckle ball video

I threw a really good screwball when I pitched back in the day. I even threw a couple no hitters primarily throwing the screwball. But major league scouts weren't impressed with my 84mph fastball nor with my 5'7" height.

I believe that pitchers that you mentioned from Hubbell, Fernando, and Marshall would have no problems with pitching in 2021. Also, remember that Marshall had a PhD in exercise physiology from Michigan State and studied the impact of pitching on pitchers' arms.

3 years later and it feels like this pitch would be devastating in today's baseball when used right. There are so many hitters now who would strike out on this pitch.

I don't really know baseball, but I enjoy all the triva attached to the game. This was neat to see.

As others are saying, more pitchers are throwing two-seam fastballs and circle changeups that have similar movement without the difficult outward snap of the wrist. These may be better options.

Other pitches that wouldn't be "that difficult to handle if they're expecting it" include fastball, curveball, slider, changeup. The only pitch that would be difficult to handle even if the hitter was expecting it is probably the knuckleball.

Excellent, interesting topic. Very well done. TY !

Excellent video! Well put together, and I can tell you really did your homework on this. No wonder this outstanding video has so many views! Wondering if you could put together a video about corked bats. Do they actually give an advantage to a hitter? Although it helps by increasing bat speed, I've heard that the cork decreases the mass of the bat and reduces power. There are also a couple of humorous stories regarding corked bats. One was in July of 1996 when Chris Sabo had broken a couple of his bats, had to grab a random bat out of the clubhouse, and breaking that one revealed it was corked. Another funny story was the Albert Belle incident in July of 1994 where umpires confiscated Belle's bat to be inspected later for cork, and teammate Jason Grimsley crawled above the ceiling tiles with a flashlight in his mouth to access the locked umpires' room to steal the bat and switch it for a different one.

Late 60's/Early 70's Mike Cuellar was about as good as it got.

I would say Greg Maddux used this movement beautifully in his career.

Speaking from experience from when I was much younger and played alot of baseball. I taught myself how to throw a screwball. And threw alot of pitches. But consistent screwballs do cause something to happen that any other pitch doesnt. Its a far more unnatural motion compared to any other pitch. Because breaking it towards the inside, stresses a point in your bones that doesnt get stressed with other pitches. Whenever I would pitch it consistently for long periods of time. I would start to feel some kind of pressure in my elbow because of it. Now given I am not a professional pitcher. But if a pitcher doesnt pick it up early, and learn to use it properly, it absolutely can cause problems. The screwball is not as easy to learn, does not break as hard like you said. And it was to me, much harder to put heat on that any other pitch I threw. I could throw a 12/6 no problem. But my screwball just kind of drifted towards the skinny end of the bat, which really screwed people over when I threw it, because im a right handed pitcher throwing to a right handed batter. They rarely expected to see it drift towards that part of their bat. Fantastic pitch if used properly. But I still feel like it absolutely can cause issues with your elbow with consistent throwing.