Weavile is Actually Good in Competitive Ubers Pokemon. Here's Why. Thanks to Aberforth for helping with the script! (his channel) / pommansmogon Join the Team Freeze Discord! / discord / freezaiyt - Follow me on twitter
I remember when in ORAS I was already killing Uber tier legendaries with a Life Orb Weavile with Icicle Crash, Knock Off, Low Kick and Posion Jab. Good to see Weavile going toe to toe with big legends.
I personally use weavile as a lead attacker by making it hold a focus sash with a combination of Knock Off, Ice Shards, Swords Dance, and either Protect or Fake Out so that my lead attacker can clean house and can clear the runway for my revenge killers/bulky support mons to do their roles.
Hitting all 3 triple axel hits has a similar chance of happening to hitting a focus blast (72.9% and 70% respectively), its not that bad in triple axels case because if it doesnt hit 3 times, you can still get some damage. Also, wide lens is pretty good because its effect is added 3 times (once for each hit) so it ends up with a 97% chance to hit 3 times with wide lens.
Still, almost 100% 120 BP move that hits twice at the cost of an item is not that bad of a cost when the most striking example is Weavile, the Pokémon that can best use Triple Axel.
Very good video as always, but I can't help but lose my shit at 3:41 there. Just imagining Weavile sneakily stealing boots from Yveltal is so hilarious to me, especially when you go the meme route and imagine them as timbs
It's all because it not only has a very strong offensive typing with access to some of the best moves that those 2 types have to offer (triple axel, ice shard and knock off all immediately come to mind), but it's also very fast as well. This makes Weavile a great revenge killer Pokemon that can pick off some very strong opponents, which has always been it's biggest selling point. It's also worth noting that for as much as the more casual crowd likes to look at a Pokemon's type combination from a defensive standpoint first and foremost, Weavile is a Pokemon that brings virtually nothing of value to the table defensively, and yet for as long as it has been around, it's never actually been a bad Pokemon, just flawed at it's worst
@@matthewkuscienko4616 I know, that's why I said NICHE instead of bad, because it would be a lie to say weavile was ever bad in OU since its inception. Weavile is the one who proves ice isn't worthless if you are an efficient glass cannon. Is just that in gen 4, 5 and 7 Weavile is niche as a pursuit trapper with Ice shard because it lacked strong ice STAB (Gen 6 he's the default fast knock off user).
I kinda want to see an ubers viable team made of nothing but pokemon that are DEFINITELY not Ubers, but have really good use in Ubers for various reasons. Weavile, Quagsire, etc
@@Dr._is_sleepy iirc Mr. Fish was banned to Ubers, therefore he is technically not allowed on the team for this. Ferrothorn however, is still OU and would fit this theoretical team.
I play an OU team in AG and have got to top 50 so far. It's amazing beating the ubers spammers but it can be really hard against the best players who use ubers
@@mutatedllama ive had pretty decent luck tonight with some combination of Ferrothorn, Weavile, Skarmory, Ditto, Shedinja, Grimmsnarl, and Gastrodon. I swapped Ferro for dual screens offensive Grimmsnarl with Play Rough and Sucker Punch to pick up KOs on the two biggest threats to the team, Calyrex Shadow and Yveltal.
And now Weavile's buried alive by Chien- Pao, a faster and stronger Ice/Dark type pokemon introduced in Gen 9 Weavile lost Knock Off and Triple Axel RIP Weavile. May Sneasler avenge you in the future
Right now I can count on one hand the amount of teams that DIDNT have a weavile whenever I play AG or Nat Dex/AG. Its just overall a VERY useful Pokémon to have.
tbh if you saw a weavile in ag, thats probably just a case of ladder being wacky as usual. Weavle isnt good in there because ag is a much more powercrept meta. Dynamax, Necrozma-dm running physdef sets and Zacian- C (especially bulky variants) are just some of the things that really hurt it.
I actually like running King's Rock on my Weavile, since Beat Up and Triple Axel are multi-hit moves, meaning extra chance to flinch. As long as you outspeed, your opponent will likely be helpless.
Here are some other vid ideas Why was Buzzwole UUBL last gen but OU in gen 8? Why did Breloom fall off? Why Jynx is rising in usage in ADV? Why are fighting types unviable in RBY? What is the cleric clause in GSC? Why was Spectrier banned in Gen 8 OU? Why was Magearna not banned in USUM? Why stall is not as strong as in previous gens? Why Xerneas runs air balloon in Ubers?
For Buzzwole, I think the short answer is that it got Close Combat in Gen 8, whereas it had to rely on Hammer Arm in Gen 7, but also some smaller things like HDB and a lack of Megas
Breloom is just power creep 130 attack used to be far and in between especially since it had spore but with it's base 70 speed and bad defenses all you have to do is attack it and it's dead without scarf and if it's scarf than you lost the sweeper ability of breloom also not to mention the lack of coverage on a easily walled Mon and even if it had coverage it wouldn't run it since it wants sub and spore or SD and spore
imagine being lugia, being known for walling all kinds of Ubers monstrosities, and then this uppity glass cannon shows up with not one but two multi-hit moves you're weak to cutting through your multiscale
It’s always crazy how Pokémon can suddenly surge in viability if the surrounding metagame. Like, as someone who lamented the loss of Zekrom’s viability in Ubers ever since Primal Groudon invalidated anything weak to ground, it’s so trippy seeing it in the A- tier, but that’s what happens when the best Pokémon in the tier doesn’t completely invalidate its existence. Though tbf, getting Dragon Dance also probably helped.
video suggestion! do a video on CHALK (Cresselia, Heatran, Amoongus, Lando-T Kangaskhan), the 2015 VGC team that was so popular that 6 of the 8 top teams that year were identical and were all CHALK
Dang, what an incredible convergence of coincidences, all coming together to make Weavile incredible! Great analysis video! Thanks for uploading! Also, I just wanna point out that Triple Axel is hilarious because: 1. It's based on an ice-skating move where you jump in the air & spin with your leg out, & Weavile is using this ice skating move to defeat Legendary PokeGod Pokemon. 2. It can be learned & used by Pokemon that DON'T EVEN HAVE LEGS like Primarina, Frosmoth, Cryogonal, & Milotic! Picture those Pokemon doing a Triple Axel! XD
Not from this video, but only very recently did I learn that the Fairy Aura and Dark Aura buff applies to the opponents too. Not sure whether they stack if both teams have Fairy/Dark Aura though. Some people even believe Fairy Aura to be the reason Misty Terrain doesn't buff Fairy attacks, it would be too powerful
@@fortnitesexman now, I didn't think a Xerneas/Zacian could be further boosted like this, probably the meta won't have troubles overall because of steel types, but that monstrous attack getting another way to boost it made me shake
Still find it odd how Gamefreak decided to nerf Knock Off by reducing distribution of the move. If you want to nerf a move like Knock Off, you really have to hit its base power or multiplier. Nerfing distribution would work on moves like U-Turn or Volt Switch Heck, Knock off got buffed as well with no Z moves or Mega Stones in Gen 8. Now, the only way to deter the move is through a rare Justified mon or a Sivally like Pokémon
You do NOT want to nerf the damage of Knock Off. The big reason is Technician pokemon. How would you like a Mega Scizor with base 90 power Knock Off? Even non-Mega Scizor and Scyther would be way too strong
@@EvanFarshadow well you could nerf it more than 5 power. A 40-50bp knock off would still be one of the best moves in the game and not super broken on technician. Would make a choice between getting rid of an item, or using a more powerful move like Crunch/Night Slash
Sneasel is my favorite Dark-type and one of my favorite pokemon in general, so I'm SUPER excited to see that its evolved form is finally doing well in battle
I really like Triple Axel, especially because it works with Skill Link, making it a viable option for Cinccino. However, it makes me wish they’d buff Triple Kick, because Triple Axel is literally double its power with the same effect.
Maybe they’re worried that because Hitmontop can have Technician (which does boost Triple Axel already), you would get both STAB and the Technician boost for effectively a 270 base powet attack. Then again it’s not like Hitmontop is all that great at the moment so maybe he could get away with it…
I never thought about dexit from a competitive standpoint, and how cutting certain pokemon shook up the usual power creep in ubers I’d be curious to see which pokemon would become more or less viable if others were absent.
the king's rock ban is a shame, because weavile uses that item well. with a full team of 6, beat up ha a 60% flinch chance, and triple axel has a 30% chance.
I think I can understand why it was banned: it's a very cheesy strategy, and it's no fun to actually play against. I remember battling a friend of mine once, and he brought a Jirachi that was holding a king's rock, and he managed to flinch one of my Pokemon using drain punch, which doesn't inherently have that effect: being able to pull something like that off is the textbook definition of a cheese strat, and those tend to get banned from competitive formats due to them being uncompetitive, since there's no way you can prepare for something like that happening because it otherwise wouldn't in all other cases
That's not how probability works, it's 27% for triple axel and 47% for beat up. Still pretty damn high tho (of course if I ever tried it it'd be more like .27% and .47% respectively)
@@copenwiththestress3732 "allowed in ubers" yeah that's called a ban sweetie. The thing only being allowed in Ubers or AG is literally what being banned means. Ubers is the banlist, and AG is things too good for the banlist tier. So yes. King's Rock is considered to be banned, because it is.
A pretty popular fan idea on how to buff Weavile is to give them Technician. It was debatable up until generation 8, but I’d argue Triple Axel alone makes a Technician Weavile banned from OU. I’d imagine Weavile would be an “OUBL” Pokémon if it got banned due to Technician, but by the looks of it it would still be quite strong in Ubers if it was its only tier, especially with a better ability
@@gusthavo15yearsand98 per technicalltiy ther is and isnt there are mons uselles in uber but broken in lower tear a.i. zamazenta or reshiram i thik they are more mons like these are unoffically called oubl it is not offical but it may as well be because it isnt not different from being btw why does bl even exist that dosnt make any sense
Plus, you can use a defensive Weavile: a combination of Substitute, Spite, your two stabs, and Pressure can whittle moves down quickly in Ubers as most moves used have fairly low pp.
@@Pizaro008 i agree, but i am not saying defensive is better... its an alternate set that may throw some players off guard. You can eat up sunsteel strikes and close combats pretty easily.
@@jaggedventure ok but then you dont do much damage back and get 2HKO’d especially in ubers with mons that have 120 defenses all over the place so max speed atk weavile can live one hit at full hp plus revenge kill them with coverage + ice shard if they live
huh, fascinating. Weavile's always been a pretty strong pokemon with an excellent offensive type combination, but its never one I'd have thought to use in ubers. Seems like it got the perfect metagame for it this generation though. Its in the right place at the right time with the right tools, which is awesome! Its always interesting how the Uber metagame is so centralized that it lends itself to random pokemon being good there that might not even be that good in other tiers, like Quagsire, if the mon just happens to counter the best ubers. I wonder if Weavile is this good in OU, I kinda doubt it, though triple axel probably makes it at least viable there.
Weavile is the best Ice type because it is the only Ice type that is not overpowered but is always useful no matter where it goes because it has the correct stats and is always nothing but a sweeper. No other Pokémon is as relevant for so long. Not even Mamoswine, who dropped to UU this generation because it’s far too slow, or Froslass despite its Poltergeist because it’s a hazards Pokémon in an era with Heavy-Duty Boots. And those were Sinnoh evolution Ice types, Pokémon that generally fit wherever they land and generally have the stats and moves and speed to fit well. Weavile really is the only archetypal “correct Ice-type”.
I ran a Weavile with Ice Punch, Brick Break, Night Slash, and Protect with an Expert Belt in doubles in Gen 4...and we wrecked face. Gen 5, yes, it fell off...hard. But don't sleep on Gen 4 Weavile. Lots of Arceus forms, Mewtwos, and Rayquazas took dirt naps thanks to it.
@@tylerd1297 maybe but at this point I don’t see it getting banned, since it’s so frail and part ice type it has a lot of counters, and with other strong ou Pokémon resisting ice or being super effective against it its hard to see it getting banned
@@The_Jho fair. I haven't really played and I'm a little confused how strong the abilities of the legendary Dark types actually makes them. They lower an opponent Stat by 25%. I also question if some of the "suspect" pokemon we're looking at won't be that bad when Tera eventually goes away
That player at 1:16 knows what's up. One of Triple Axel's major drawbacks, other the risks of being a multi-hit contact move, is that there's a pretty high chance (a bit over 1/4 of the time) that it will fail to fully execute. But Wide Lens is disproportionately effective at mitigating that risk, leaving you with only about a 3% chance of it not fully executing instead. It does mean you're not getting a power boost or security from Focus Sash, but it _does_ mean Triple Axel is a very reliable, very powerful staple move regardless. It's less powerful than Weavile, but Technician/Triple Axel Cinccino with Wide Lens is one of my favorite sets right now.
Triple Axel hits 3 times, with the second hit being 40 base power and the third hit being 60 base power. However, 120 base power isn't accurate either, since the move is only 90% accurate, with each hit's accuracy check performed separately. On average, Triple Axel is only 94.14 base power, but that's still good.
In addition, as an Ice type fan Weavile is the only Pokémon that is an Ice type that fits into whatever niche Ice forces onto you, and is relevant game after game. Froslass and Mamoswine would count but Froslass will not be used because hazard stacking is not the win it was and Mamoswine dropped down to UU, meaning it was possible to be power crept and Mamoswine is not as good as we assume it is. Thank god Kamaitachi exist or else there would not be a properly fast and speedy Ice type. Or for that matter, nine-tailed foxes.
Also the fact that there wrent good physical ice moves in gen 4 weavile only had the option for ice punch which is only 75 base yes there was ice shard but it is a priority move which mostly used to kill weak opponents
off topic but bro i remember how dead the ubers ladder is, i was on 1300 ladder and aberforth just came out of nowhere, man was at around 1800 that time lmfao
My weavile is a really weird one, i set up tailwind then safe switch to weavile. My weavile uses king's rock and beat-up, sucker punch, triple axel and ice shard. I usually go for beat up to hit 5-6 times and have that chance to flinch opponrnt go up alot, while dealing a good ampunt of damage. If i can just beat them with triple axel i just do that. And if ice shard or sucker punch can finish the job thats even better. I know that sucker punch and ice shard have the same role but i didnt have any other ideas besides swords dance which then my weavile usually just dies while im setting up (might try a screen team to protect weavile tho. Ninetales perhaps? Idk) Really gimmicky but thats MY fun in pokemon
Watching this makes me think Work Up, Ice Beam, Scald/Waterfall/Water Shuriken, Dark Pulse Battle Bond Greninja with Focus Sash would be good, or I'm just crazy and still have a LONG WAY to go before understanding the META.
@@zomorion9183 the only benefit hes getting from workup physically is waterfall when you already have scald and shuriken, if you want to use a mixed ash greninja set you should be using surf ice beam/workup gunk shot water shuriken
I've got a question/vid topic: In both of Smogon's recommended sets for Blacephalon, it runs 2 fire type moves (flamethrower and fire blast/overheat) despite both sets having choice items. Why is this, and which one should be used under which circumstance?