Somebody told me that a HQ lifter made to High Standards (as Mercedes) could easily cost 300 Dollars PER LIFTER...who would buy that? Nobody could afford it except deep pocket professional racers.
i'm so glad you put out these videos. i was in the process of looking to buy a new cam & lifters for my motor. now, i know to wait until this problem goes away! you saved me $ and headaches!
FYI Lifter issues still persist. I rebuilt a Pontiac about 6 months ago. Cam break in was successful but about 40- 50 miles later one Lifter failed. I thought "screw this I'll use a roller cam setup ". $1800 later, now my hydraulic roller lifters are ticking.
Good video and thanks for the heads up KEV Cars have gone down hill since fuel injection 1983-1987 Time frame. And as you can see the Industry for hot rod parts is heading south also . Anyone who’s been paying attention over the past three decades has already seen this coming
Just went through 2 sets of hydraulic roller lifters.. about 1/2 would bleed down very quickly. Some other ones won’t pump up at all!! Pulling the 5.8 apart for the 3rd time!!
I have just rebuilt a 91 dodge 360LA ( factory roller cam) I decided to do something that would never have crossed my mind 20+years ago. I am re-using the 32 year old lifters. They have not bled down, and show minimal wear. I did disassemble and clean them. This for a slightly modified engine, for a daily driver, nothing extreme, I just don't want to tear it apart again.
IMO, the manufacturers are pushing away flat tapped cams and lifters on purpose with bad manifacturing. That way, they are promoting their more expensive roller cams, lifters and all other aftermarket parts, (Spings, rocker arms, etc.) needed for roller conversion. I am in the same situation. Soon, I'm gonna replace my cam and I'll pay extra for roller upgrade, just for the peace of mind.
Thank you for your video! I recently built a sbc with a hydraulic roller cam but used solid roller lifters. I spoke to 3 different cam company's first and all of them said yes absolutely you can do that as long as you tight lash it. They all suggested. 006 to .008 Hot lash. Which in this Engine was .003 cold setting. So far so good!! Engine masters did an episode doing just that and the results on the dyno even showed an increase of about 10hp. I'm just happy if it lives a long life. I guess time will tell. Thanks, Mike
I own a Rockwell Hardness tester but the problem is that testing will ruin the lifter. The diamond probe will leave a dimple making it unusable unless the lifter is refaced.
Thanks for the videos. My EngineTech lifters in my Buick 350 chattered from DAY ONE. Luckily I don't think ive wiped a lobe yet... motor still runs good. But ticks away. Ordered two more sets and I'm praying I get a good set.
@@je862 Absolutely. Give me your contact. Maybe leave a comment on my latest youtube video with your email and then I will delete the comment. I have opted to return my two sets of new lifters. I can clearly see circular rings on the faces without the need for a magnifying glass. I told them they were defective. How much you wanna bet they'll rebox and re-sell? And that new camshaft? Already toast. Burned in 1K miles even though I was very specific about cam break in.
I thank you Kim for the information as I'm building a 360 Dodge with a hydraulic flat tappet cam in it and I'm hoping and praying that the lifters don't wipe out in it but just like you said it's a 50/50 proposition well I'm just going to do the best I can I like your videos that they've helped me a lot and assembling it and I wish myself luck and thank you again when I'm done I'll send you pictures of it
I'm surprised some lawyer looking for a loose isn't coming to all your defenses to file a class action lawsuit. Lawyers love class action suits because the fees generated from them provide the lawyers generational wealth.
Chevrolet, Ford, and Dodge all had solid flat tappet cams back in the 60s doing the Golden era oh hot rodding. Stay solid and invest in roller tip rockers with poly locks.
4 months ago I built a 375 hp 396 engine for a customer with a 65 Corvette restoration project. I used the comp Nostalgia cam and matching solid lifters. During the 20 minute cam break in it took out 5 lifters in varying degrees. The lobes remained, the bottoms of the lifters got chewed off. Peeled the engine down, cleaned everything out, got another cam done, nitrite hardened , and got a set of EDM hole lifters, thinking they would be a slower moving part likely to be older stock and thankfully it worked . So I would say that solid lifters are not immune.
I had a Ford3.8L V6 with hyd roller cam. Replaced the OE cam & lifters. 3 of the new lifters were bleeding down. Cam company replaced them, & 2 of those had issues. I swapped lifters to make sure it wasn't valvetrain problems & the issue followed the liters. The cam company was excellent & allowed me to use the old OE lifters after they were verified as good. ZERO issues with the old OE lifters with over 250,000 miles on them. Note that the oil was RELIGOUSLY changed with Castrol oil & an OE filter between 3500 & 4000 miles with the vehicle used about 70% on the interstate. But still, crappy new parts but good old parts. Thankfully they were not wearing out on the bottoms creating trash in the ENTIRE engine, creating the need for a complete tear down & wash up.
Great info... there is one economical method to test hardness that involves bouncing a ball bearing off the part and watching the height it rebounds. I have used a balldrop hardness tester to see if hardened or not in my engineering career and can say that it does work... just dont expect to report an exact number since it is literally releasing a ball onto a flat metal surface and seeing how high it bounces. If you have a part that is known to be correct (aka a known "good" lifter) and the test part you can see the difference. You can make one by bouncing a steel ball bearing inside a tube from a given height on two parts and see the difference. I will be doing this on my new hydraulic flat tappet lifters on my BBC and seeing how high the old ones bounce as reference. Good luck to all of us playing Russian roulette with our engines.
i have seen similar issues on other US channels regarding recent lifters but havent experienced it here yet. Hydraulic rollers became my favourite as soon as i finaly learnt they existed as an after market product in the early 90's
Good video thanks for the heads up Cars have gone downhill since fuel injection came in full swing 1983 to 1987 And now it looks like the hot rod parts market is going the same way. Anyone that has been paying attention over the past three decades has seen the writing on the wall . It’s getting worse as we speak.
I just got wind of this about a week ago from a HI-PO engine builder. He said the exact same thing. That's a crying shame. Almost everybody has pimped out quality to save a buck, while screwing the customer. Dam!
Thanks Ken, glad to see your back doing great easy to understand video's ,for the 60 year old motor heads like myself, I'm about to replace the lifters in my boat, 1991 chevy 350 because of one weak lifter, she runs great been putting this project of for 10 years , which company did you have the best luck with for flat tappet hydrolic lifters? Jessel racing manufacturing is 2 miles away from me in New Jersey any thoughts? Keep up the Great work!
I totally agree about the bullshit of being sold shit!....I have been stalled on completing my FE build for these exact statements and comments. Guess my option for my current lifter scenario is to have the ones I bought Rockwell tested or look for a set of N.O.S lifters and rebuild them and have the piece of mind....
This has been going on for decades, I remember changing a cam and hydraulic followers 30 years ago on a Vauxhall Cavalier, as soon as it warmed up and the oil thinned out the engine would stop due to the rockers no longer pushing the valves down as the oil ran straight out of them.
I purchased a SBC hydraulic flat tappet cam and lifters from Lunati around the beginning of the year and am now having second thoughts on installing it..
I would be skeptical. I built two sbc in 2017/2018 with Lunati cams and lifters. Both engines sound like a type writer when started. No matter how long it has sat. Even at temperature. Lifters bleed down immediately. Junk!
I watched your video about adjusting your valve clearances and repairing an injury that had a blown head gasket on a boat so do I have to take the lifters out and let the oil drain out of them for this process to work I really appreciate you thanks
Just lost 5 of 16 lifters in 14 minutes on a Ford 390 FE. They were Sealed Power lifters and a Melling MTF4 cam. The lifters are too soft and I didn’t know to check hardness before I tried to break in. Also, one if the lifters collapsed and the plunger just ranked. I followed all breakin procedures and I used VR1 with Lucas ZDDP additive. Plenty of zinc. The Sealed Power lifters are total junk. I cleaned everything up and reinstalled the old Ford cam and old Ford lifters and it’s all good now.
Well... typically two things lead to bleed down: plunger/body tolerances too big, or check ball assembly is not doing its job. So I arrive at an odd question: we really going to recommend hyd rollers from the same sources that cranked out hyd flat tappets that didn't work?
Ok I just had exactly what you are describing. Installed cam, adjusted lifter preload, followed break in procedure to a t and used break in oil. Next day I fired car up for test drive took it out engine started chattering. Just like you said lifters bled down. Ate the cam and lifters. Never had this happen in my life.
@@je862 i believe its more to do with the cams lobe profile not being ground on an angle, no angle no lifter spinning = chewed lifter.... did a 350-454 swap in a 72 vette, put two comp flat tappets with there magnum series lifters, both of them chewed the lifters up within an hour of run time.... 2000-2800 rpm varrying rpm up and down for 20 minutes. switched over to a howards cam/lifter set and 0 problems so far. only has 15k on the motor but he only drives it in the summer so. this will be his 3rd year and i got my fingures crossed they never wipe out lol. also the only reason i say that the lobes are not being ground on an angle, in my belief its due to 90% being roller with straight cut lobes, its like they forgot how to grind a cam
There's another engine builder on youtube I know of that won't even build an engine with a flat tappet cam anymore. I had one built recently with flat tappets and it SEEMS to be fine so far but it's worried me the whole time because of how much I've heard about this issue.
I have issues with my rhoades lifters. Some of the pushrods turn happily, others don't but can be turned by hand. The lifters turn in their holes fine when cranking. All the rockers are pedestal mount and the preloads are all set the same. Any ideas?
I recently had my crower severe duty solid roller lifters fail after three 1/4 mile passes. They spread at the axle part of the body and scored up the bores real bad. Engine builder had to pry them to get them all the way out.
Had a total lifter faliure on my Mopar 318, new cam and lifters from a reputable company, one lifter did not fit in the hole from the beginning! Put a lifter from a another brand in and that was the only one that survived, looks brand new and the loob on the camshaft is unscratched. Put my old shaft in and it runs great, but how much metal is in the engine now! The big part stor was great, got my money back the next day!
I have a lifter noise in my 69 Ford 351W ? Just replaced the cam and lifters with Edelbrock Performer products, also replaced all the push rods, rocker arms and the oil pump. I have stock non adjustable rockers that I torqued to spec in sequence as per the manual. I broke in the cam for 30 minutes with Amsoil break in oil. I have since changed the oil with regular oil and still have the lifter noise. Are Edelbrock Performer lifters made in the USA? Getting ready to remove the valve covers for inspection. Found #5 Lifter collapsed. Any other recommendations on what lifters to buy?
Great videos Ken. While the engine is in the car, is there a quick way to verify if the rockers are out of adjustment or if there is an issue with the lifter? I have a faint tick or tap coming from the driver side bank. (350 chev, hydraulic flat tappet).
If you can figure out which one is noisy push on the rocker arm on the pushrod end. If it springs up and down it is bleeding off. Or if you keep tightening and it stops pecking for a second then starts back it is bleeding off.
Do you know anything about the hydraulic lifters with the machine groove on the bottom of them on the round part, I was told they are hardened if they have the groove and if not there arnt?
It seems like there is issues with hydraulic roller lifters too. I put a comp roller cam and lifters I'm my chevy 4.3 and it was fine for 30000 miles. Then I noticed some valvetrain noise. I found metal powder in the heads but very little in the filter. I removed the lifters and 3 of them fell apart when I turned them over. The cam looked ok but the lifters were disentigrated.
Recently lifter shopping for my ‘93 LT1 Vette motor. Everywhere I looked “No warranty” on lifters. Across the board. That means the insiders know damn well the crap they’re selling is junk!
I am wondering if people are not presoaking the flat tappet lifters when they receive them. I do not hear about anyone soaking them. I have always soaked my lifters and now have a set soaking for my new engine for my 78 Suburban.
I'm up to engine #5 experiencing the same problems, I've switched manufacturer and so far so good, but it is a very expensive exercise as no warranty for the lifters that have failed.
@@borismcfinnigan3430 I’m not here to rubbish brands but the only brand I have had success with in a hydraulic roller and flat tappet lifter is Johnson’s
I bought a set of lifters from the original supplier to Chrysler, NIB for a hair over $100. They are rated for 6,800 RPM- higher than I'll be spinning the motor to...but I'd rather be safe than sorry and it's not like I had another option
I have said this time and time again, in 1994 the EPA has reduced ZDDP to near zero in motor oil. EPA has not ended ZDDP yet, but it is coming. There are a few motor oils still in use around 1200 to 1600 parts per Million, Amsoil, Penzzoil, Valvoline, Mobil 1 and a few others. In the 1930's, they used 3000 parts per million, not any more Use roller lifters / tappets, all roller lifter are now used since the 1980's.
I had a new set of hydraulic lifters replaced on a 20+ yr old motor . After break in and a couple dyno pulls . They leak down within 20 mins . After this video I will pull it down to check the cam lobes are OK and put another set of lifters in . Will be interesting if lobes have worn on the old cam after change lifters ??
I went back and used my old lifters from my cam change and have not had any issues yet. After using the new lifters from the kit and loosing 3 of them put old ones back in no issues! Had to tear down motor four times get very expensive. Should be reimbursed just for the gaskets and oil changes that I had to pay for would be nice.
It sounds like bad heat treatment on these parts. I know because I’ve been heat treating for 25 years and seen bad loads. I believe if these parts are being heat treated in China then quality is out the door and this is the end result. Most of the high quality aftermarket companies use American heat treat shops and things are done correctly. At least most of the time. If you want high quality parts use get your parts heat treated is a company with aerospace approve furnaces and employees. This will guarantee 100% that you will get high uniform strength through the part.
I built a supposedly nice la engine It is now apart do to the rattling lifters from China. A took off a cover, cranked the engine. When I stopped cranking it, the lifters would bleed down within 5 seconds. Never seen this before.
Yes, the lifter issue is on going. Cheap overseas made junk. I rebuild differentials, same issues. India, Turkey, Chinese gear sets with major gear brands. Same as many bearings to a certain degree and brand new 12 bolt car posi units for $180.00 China made. Even stolen our patent. No thanks.
The simple problem is that the manufacturer of lifters are being made basically by one or two makers overseas and the buyers (companies selling this junk) are doing zero quality checks of their own and not rejecting this substandard garbage and basically screwing over us the consumer. Both China and India business mindset is one of if no one complains and if they do discount the item and say sorry and they will never do anything to fix the problem until companies say sorry and discounts don’t cut it. The reason for the garbage parts is simple untrained work force and junk equipment being used to make the product in multiple factories that make a little bit of everything and don’t specialize in one area of manufacture
I had 800 miles on a rebuilt rover 4.2 (215 Buick style) I went on a 50 mile drive when i stopped for fuel i had a loud lifter tap. Pulled the rockers and ran it. I could not figure out which lifter it was. Cam appears fine still has some of the black coating on the lobes. lifters bases showed still had slight dome on the bases..I took all the lifters out and opened and inspected all of them. I could find nothing wrong. they were all pumped up hard still and I had to put them in a vise with a ball bearing compressing them. all just bled oil out the hole but one it had some air bubbles in it. I am going to run a new set of lifters. what can cause the lifter to act this way. it had no miss and 50 psi oil pressure..? some said my oil pressure relief valve could have stuck temporarily and caused it to lose pressure, and damaged a lifter.. could one have just failed In the way I described? this has me stumped..I have good oil flowing from the oil galleries to the rocker shafts. Thanks to anyone that can offer some thoughts on this..Break in was fine with no noises ..
Sounds like to me you have a lifter that won't pump up or hold pressure, You will need to replace it if you can. You might try taking it apart and cleaning and inspecting it under good light and magnification looking for any defects, You may find it has/had a piece of dirt or some foreign material in it and servicing it might correct the pressure leak problem.Just remember to put some rev-lube on it when reinstalling. God Bless your work!
First step is put the name of the failed lifter here in these comments. Make, model, serial info. This way people know. Its a bit frustrating hearing people tip toe around saying the names. If its melling, crower, sealed power, comp, summit, speedway, jegs, howard, if its an ebay/amazon item use the store name and say it. Then whatever comes up most, its not the distributer, its the manufacturer to look into and follow up with. If you keep getting bad fries at your Wendys, because they've been sitting, next time you go, ask for no salt fries, they'll make them fresh. Then ask for a salt packet at the window.
@@duaneafields lunati cam. Solid flat tapet don't know the number on it at the moment. Lifters were johnson lifters. I used Brad Penn break in oil when running the motor
@@ryn86mstng yea, noted. sorry about your small block Ford. I had put a Voodoo cam in a Cad 472 that I sold, I do not know how it turned out, I believe it was a micro-trol lifter. Thanks for the response, All of it will help when enough people come together and we can graph it out.
I have recently become aware of this issue with lifters 'it's especially not good news for me because I've never rebuilt an engine 'but I've alway's wanted to 'and I'm intending to rebuild my 66 Valiant's 225 slant 6 . I'm not unused to doing mechanical work on my own cars 'just never an engine rebuild ( I do body work and paint) I'm confident that I can do it as I feel I've learned what is involved . My situation is 'I live in New Zealand and have recently become aware of a slant 6 rebuild kit available from a reputable supplier in Australia 'I asked them what brand of cam and lifters come with the kit 'they said both are from "Melling " 'I said that's good 'because to me that's a brand name that goes way back that I would trust . Then recently someone said in a video that Melling lifters could come from China or god knows where. Why cant these part's be made in America? . Anyway ' could I get some advice on the following' should I just get my original solid lifter's resurfaced 'and get the new Melling cam?
I need 8 tappets for a 30 yo diesel engine (Westerbeke) but none can be found. Are there businesses that could/would make them for a relatively reasonable cost?
I'm thrilled that you started a firestorm while this problem, It's total BS that we spent good money on a supposedly quality name brand company and get a bunch of Chineseium crap part,, I'm so pissed off about this and I think you for getting this information out to the public, I'm at the build stage of my 350 where cam choice is my next investment, now I hear this about junk a$% lifters,,, looks I'll go outside of my budget for a roller cam which is something beyond the intended use for this project but it's cheaper than screwing up a brand new balanced bottom end,,, insert screwing fit here,,,, drunk sailor style
Had a professional engine built for a jeep, Comp hydraulic lifters, it was built in Nov 21, its currently in the shop for suspected lifter failure after 3k miles.... just my luck
@@je862 so yes it was a bad lifter / camshaft.... they think the lifter wasn't turning as it should have been and the lifter wiped the cam.... unfortunately I do not have the camshaft or lifters, the engine builder sent them back to comp cams for reimbursement
Delphi lifters I never had a problem with them I think melling has bought them out not sure though..never had a problem with howards lifters..I called Johnson lifters and they said their lifters are soley made by them start to finish however they no longer make flat tappet lifters
I'm sure some of the high end boutique lifters are manufactured here, but I checked out johnson and they only seem to make roller lifters. As far as I know there are two manufacturers worldwide for flat tappet lifters, they're almost all just branded.
Ken, It's not just lifters,it's camshafts too. Watch this video from My Vintage Iron. on RU-vid, The Truth About Flat Tappet Cam Failure Myvintageiron7512 Very informative and well worth your time. I wiped out two flat tappet cams and had to rebuild the engine both times. They had shavings everywhere!
I haven't even got to the timing the engine with first 10 minuets I have a wiped-out cam & lifters and this is the forth time on the same new 383 SB for my work truck just trying to get the engine on the first start up. This last time the 4th time the cam - lifers wipe out on the start up of the engine. I just ordered from Jegs a roller comp cam & Howards roller Hydralic roller lifters I hope ends this madness .
Question is - is there enough flat tappet market for companies to bother with? It is mostly old car enthusiasts running flat lifters isn't it? People like me...
its now 2022, I put together a big Chevy with quality components, and it sounds like shit thanks to junk lifters. Gonna tear it apart and switch to roller. I wish I had seen this video before ordering and installing parts :( ...
We’re having the same problem.. Rebuilt the top end on a 5.8 ford Windsor, figured we’d do new lifters since we got it all apart, we’ve went through 2 sets of new lifters over 1/2 are bad. We’re going to be installing the original factory lifters!!
