Will Ladybug's Stagnant Character Finally Grow In Season 5?⎮A Miraculous Ladybug Season 5 Discussion 

Here's what I think - cat and ladybug are going to get together in the end, the senti-monster theory is going to not be a thing, and their character development will go down the drain with something or someone In the show saying "they were made for each other".

Honestly, I'm preparing for the worse. Miraculous has a history of writing their characters sloppy and putting plot above character development. This bugged me the most with Alya finding out. Instead of actually showing that Alya is helping Mari on an emotional level and being a supportive friend, Alya got downgraded to plot sidekick who is basically there to get in the way of Ladynoir. The same goes for CN. Instead of dealing with the fact that he has no boundaries (because of his dad) and getting angry at the fact that everyone either treats him like a demsel in destress (as Adrien), a pawn to be used (Adrien and Chat) or as useless trash (Chat), they make him a SIMP who is petty about not being loved.

Chloe attempting to be friends with her classmates and becoming nicer to Sabrina could've been an interesting arc. It could've also been a great way to show that a change in character can reflect in the miraculous they transform into. Queenbee's suit could have changed into something more sophisticated or gain a puffy jacket with a fluffy collar :>

One thing I learned is because her obsession with Adrien is the reason why she messes things up. Remember like the time she did not let Chloe help defeat Hearteater? It lead to Chloe betraying Ladybug and stealing the miracle box and Master Fu erasing his memories. And now this. She didn’t even let Cat Noir help and she let Flairmidable help. That’s another problem. Her insecurities creates consequences. I just hope that doesn’t happen again because she can’t always do everything on her own. Cat Noir is loyal and has sacrificed his life so many times for her. He should become a secondary guardian so that he can help her with everything.

Alright, I don't wanna be that guy. but to me, it seems like Marinette was a better character when she was kinda entertaining the idea of Luka she just looked a lot happier, and actually felt like a normal teenager, and it was actually refreshing to see. Then she goes back to simping for Adrien and we get episodes like Puppeteer 2..I just think her love for Adrien can honestly bring out some of her worst characteristics.

Honestly it would be a interesting character development if Ladybug was slacking off and Cat Noir took more of a leader role to understand how Ladybug felt as a guardian it would be a negative development but more interesting if executed properly.

Yeah the fact that she is back at stalking Adrien is dissturbing, personally I feel like the break up was very important, but not as much for Marinette as for Luka. If they reverse her character development I feel like the fandom, including me, wouldn't be very content. Season 5 has a lot of oportunities to be excelent, but the writters have to give us more character moments, Miraculous is after all a character driven show, since all the episodes have the same format. Idk, Astruc denys the existention of Chloe's redemption arc, I hope he doesn't do the same thing with Maribug

Imagine a world where Marinette stayed with Luka (or Adrien, Kagami, who even cares), Chat Noir stopped playing “nice guy”, Chloe got her redemption, Marinette stopped stalking people, everyone got character development, Lila stopped lying and changed for the better, Ladybug and Chat Noir stopped fighting and became close friends, episodes actually had tons of plot and were unique instead of just carbon copies of every other episode… Villains had epic powers and actually good ideas, things were more complicated and thought through..

The worst thing is that we have such low standards for this show; shows like The Owl House, Gravity Falls and Amphibia (there are many more, I just wanted to cite some) had incredible character development (of more than the protagonists) in 2 seasons, while for Ladybug we can just “forgive” the writing for not developing the protagonist at all for two seasons. Hell, Over the Garden Wall had great character development is one short season! I get that each show is different, but a little bit of character development should be an absolute given for a protagonist for two seasons. I don’t get how this is so popular, it’s bad, but I guess I developed some kind of guilty pleasure situation with it, like with Dharman videos lol

At the end of season 4, it seemed to me that both Adrien and Marinette have grown. The heroes have finally lost so there is much room for character development. I think Marinette will be very cautios and hopefully more determined too. I hope she learns to trust Cat Noir and lean on him more.

I actually would love for them to air the episodes in production order as that would make the character development consistent

For me, the best written female main characters so far are Anne and Luz from Amphibia and The Owl House If you watch season 1 and see them at their latest seasons, you notice how different they are compare to where they started. Their main quirks still exist, but they have grown since the beginning we saw them

I feel like she can still be the confident Ladybug, to be honest what happened in the end of this season had to happen. She needed awareness of what she was doing wrong so it could help her grow, and it could help her grow instead of pushing her down for no reason next season, well, if the writing is done right. But with this they can compromise and still make Cat noir a leader too. He's NOT the sidekick and he wasn't suppose to be in the first place. His miraculous is as powerful as Ladybug's, as important as Ladybug's. Ans so is he. And I feel like the answer to pushing his charecter forward is to give him a situation where he has no choice but to be the leader. A situation where Ladybug is gone and the team has no leader and no plans, NOTHING. And it could happen in the finale or something it would be awlsome. And they could build up to it. But to be honest Im not putting my expectations too high...

Seeing the opening of this vid and whatever ladybug did make me wonder how such a clumsy person does all these flips. I mean do the miraculous give them flexibility or smthing?

We also need character development on the side characters as well such as max, Kim, alix, zoe, Sabrina etc

Considering how the Season ended, i daresay Marinette Will be even more insecure considering they are at a disadvantage now. And knowing how the show works, Marinette might only get more confident once She and Chat Noir reveal their identities, somehow and someway connecting it to her confidence. Hopefully they dont do it like the Flash and make a speech every fucking episode to cheer up Marinette

If I had the bunny miraculous, I would time travel back to the writing room. Where I have season being based around,the naivety and novelty of being a teenage superhero. Where season two would have the novelty fading, feeling more like a chore. Alongside Chloe‘s Reckless hero ark, to such a point that all the other heroes would agree to not use her. While season three the novelty is completely gone and the heroes start stressing out. Alongside Chloe’s very much more justified regressing into a villain and the Cat Blanc trauma. Where in season four would have overwhelmed ladybug. Believe in the fate of Paris and most likely the rest of the world lies on her shoulder.

While season 4 was an improvement from season 3, I can't deny that hardly anything has changed or at least the things that have changed are either reverted or not executed enough.

Ladybug needs Su-Han’s help and he can give her a pep talk! I hope Cat Noir and Ladybug can get together, if the writing team is brave enough! I hope that the writing changes in Season 5 or Season 6! She also needs to talk to Cat Noir as he’s really understanding and respectful (most of the time!)

It's SO annoying! She had started growing at the end of S3 and the first episodes of S4, then she reverted to being her old self, especially as far as her feelings go. And to think hardcore fans even have to courage to mock those who complain about the characters not having enough development.

I would like to point out that I don't see the end of season 4 as a character regression for Ladybug, but as an opportunity for her character to grow. This is the first time that Gabe/Felix won over Ladybug. Yeah, she led them to Fu before, but that didn't have nearly as big as a consequence as now. I think it's important for Ladybugs character to have a loss, to see how she will fix things and prevent it from happening again. The obvious solution will be to involve Cat Noir more, but that doesn't need to mean that she has character regression. If she reflects on what she did wrong and decides that she needs to pass responsibility to Cat Noir, I think she is progressing as a leader and a hero Of course, the writers need to do that with her. Just because I want her to do that, doesn't mean the writers will allow her to do so

BRO THIS VIDEO HAD ME DYING LAUGHING 😭 “No more grand plans to seduce him” “No more stalking” “No more creepy shit” I can’t 😭😭😭

Notice one thing Both lb and cn are kind of in peril now Lb may forget everything bcoz she might pass on the role of guardian in future...and cn , Adrien is sentimonster who can pop out of existence with a snap

If Marinett/Ladybug haven't been so stubborn about not revealing her secret identity to Cat Noir and let him reveal his secret identity to her then maybe she would have made the biggest mistake of her life in Season 4.

The thing abt adrigami and lukanette is that,they said it's not over...its more complicated than that like idk wht tht means but oooo sounds excitingggg

The whole development about treating CN better? Where did that happen? When did that resolve? Oh yeah...when the chips are down, none of the other holders exist, her best friend has been lying to her even though she shared a literal potential world destroying secret with her, and lost all of the miraculous. It's easy for her to given and accept the king simp that is Chat Noir. When she has no one else. And you can acknowledge that's awesome. But the thing is he's always there. It just...rubs me the wrong way. I've been in relationships like that. Where you're there for someone 100% but they don't recipricate those feelings enough only for their friends to all go away, their money and time killers are dried up, and they're 'sad' because they messed up or are just going through a rough spot. Only then are you the most reliable person ever and only does your true value shine

I love Marinette/Ladybug she’s my favourite character and i think/hope that the setimoster story will be finished before the end of the show.

Finally someone mentions this. I get feeling stressed and frustrated which makes you lash out sometimes. Fine, everyone deals with that. Here is where I am annoyed with her. She just became a full blown narcissist. While narcissists tend to have over blown confidence in their abilities and think they are smarter than everyone else. Here is the kicker, it comes from being very insecure to the point that it is annoying because both the treating people like they are stupid, their anxiety and insecurity breaks people up, especially families. How do I know? I lived with one. It is not easy. Also, her insecurity leads to her abusing her partner. Not using this term lightly either. She constantly hits him with her yo-yo (excluding the accidental ones. Those are different) or that one time with Cat Noir’s staff whenever she is frustrated with him. I get lashing out when he says aomething inappropriate, but she yells at him if she disagrees with him. She yells at him for even having an idea. And I swear, I see Gabriel in her. She uses some of the same tactics that Gabriel uses when he verbally abuses Adrien. If Cat Noir stands up for himself, she yells and yells until he just shuts up because he knows there is no point to even trying. Most of the time, he never speaks or is submissive because that is what she responds to. Her insecurity is toxic in so many levels especially when it involves her neglecting him and her narcissism makes her believe she has no consequences to her actions and they can be easily fixed or people get her out of a sticky situation so many times, she just expects people to do that all of the time. Strikeback finally proves that can’t happen all of the time. She can finally face that her actions have consequences. Man, I want them to break up. She does not care about him that much. She is fine without him. He can take time for himself and be relieved of this physical and verbal abuse she gives him and he can find other ways to be needed. She perfectly showed many times she is fine with replacing him despite those couple of moments where the writers tried to show that is not the case. It only happened when the plot demanded it.

And an annoying thing about the season is that it seemed to be moving in the direction of them just being friends with Marinette deciding that she can never be with adrien because of her dual life, but this in turned meant it looked like they were doing what happened in harry potter with ginny giving up on harry and thereby becoming more confident around him which allowed harry to start noticing her, and the order that the episodes were aired seemed to suggest, but then it turned out that the next episode after that seeming development was another getting adrien to like her

Id like to see guardian ladybug as the same confident smart all that but shift the focus for maybe 1 season away from ladybug and have cat noir become the centerline and have him rise to become ladybugs equal that would be nice and we could have more of a personality fir Adrian maybe we could get cat noir backing away from loving ladybug and become a friend not pushing his luck.

I noticed that the lip syng is perfect in this video and I appreciated that.

At this point in time, the reveals and any romance means nothing when they become canon. They went back go status quo too many times that the show itself becomes irrelevant, bcs we know nothing has meaning anymore. The only way they can remedy this is by shoehorning everything into S5, and if i know anything about shoehorning everything into one, Penalteam showed us what happened

Could you do a discussion video about how Lila should move on from her cringe towards Adrien and should go on from loving him to hating him just as much as she does for Marinette and her Ladybug identity when she starts working with Felix after he tells her how stubborn and one-sided his cousin really is?

Hm, good, fair and valid points and opinions. Let’s hope that things gets better, though if it will not, then at least we have Fan-Made content that i argue can be way more interesting and very intriguing in comparison to the actual Show. Speaking of which, have you ever heard of the Feralnette AU Webcomic by BigFatBreak? If not, then i highly recommend giving it a read, i think it might be a better Season 4 than Season 4.

I think it could be a good opportunity to bring back the duality that their miraculous have and incorporate it into being co guardians. Its a personal theory that the end of season 5 is going to be the saddest one yet as I suspect that Adrien/chat noir is going to die, this is more than likely if you consider the sentimonster theory and if it ends up being true.

3:47 I really wonder if they would've done this storyline if fans hadn't been complaining about it so much beforehand?...

I'm finding this vid 26 secs after It was posted. Or so yt says

If it were adrien stalking he would get arrested

Speaking of Luka and Chloe, could you do a discussion video about when they properly meet and she finds out he and Juleka are Jagged Stone's kids, starts respecting them like she does for their dad, gives Luka a chance for Chloe to get to know him more, his kindness could not only make her a better person but also fix how dysfunctional her family really is?

The writers will find a way t ruin everything. Not hyped for season 5 at all

You know, a plan for if Adrien gets found out my his dad, Hawkmoth can make a fake cat noir like in that one episode, to try to find out her identity. :) Or the other way around.

I'd be really surprised, if they did a whole season 4, to come back to status quo.

I wish they would give Mariette/ladybug more flaws and make her not a creepy stalker and make characters challenge her more no not just the bad guys and development in her and Adrians relationship and make it not toxic and give Marinette a bit more growth in character development and make her not love anyone so she can love herself to generally love Adrian in a non obsessive way to the point it's like ayano and taro/senpai in yandere simulator just -the killing and make Marinette have some issues to solve out with cat/chat noir and the rest of her teammates and make someone turn against her in the teammates of heroes to solve those problems too and actually make her lose in some things outside and inside hero life just not her miraculous so she can learn from those fails to get better at fighting as a hero and learn from her mistakes like in season 4 last episode and make her have issues with alya and Chloe clear reasons for Chloe/chole and alya cuz it's as if Marinette won't let her do anything without saying it's too risky and solve them out that's really what i think would make fans not hate her and actually give her a lot of flaws in her character and not everyone likes her that's all 😀! And also give her clumsy self back and pay attention to her messing up as a hero and give her some problems to solve and maybe have her in a love struggle with Adrian aka she's shutting him out everytime she even talks about that in the ending of season 4 so problems to solve with him too that's absolutely all I hope for Marinates/ladybugs character

Unrelated but, I would like to see a ladybug videogame that's a fighting game in the style of DB FighterZ. I like how cool that game was.

Marinette is a stalker.

We just wanna see cat noir defeating akumas by himself or being the leader. We just wanna see more of Adrien/cat noir

I miss sassy ladybug she was such an era 😢

I agree with you.

I hate that lady bug is just going back to the status quo and that’s exactly where their going. I would be amazed if that wasn’t where they were going because, let’s be honest, Miraculous is all about either being a parody or an homage to classic American comics superheroes from marvel or DC like Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, etc. And the tragic truth about Marvel and DC is that they have forever put their superheroes on an eternal treadmill where they will always be the subject of their respective universes so that they can keep making money no matter how old the characters are or how long they have been writing the comics. This is the exact same model they are using with Ladybug I’m not sure wether or not they have an end game but if they do it’s hard fathom what it is because they keep insisting that the characters stay stagnant. This is my biggest gripe about comics today and by extension miraculous because the writers seem to have confused character and story with plot again. They seem to think that “things happening to” a character is the same as the character learning, growing, and progressing from those experiences. Returning to the status quo is the same as going backwards and it sucks.

3:28 Oh! SO that's what happened in that episode! I was so confused because they said all the guardians died and the temple was destroyed. Then the end of the epoxide said they were alive? I was like, "What the Hell is going on?!".

i would to be honest just absolutly love it if they remade this whole show, but as a proper adult or at least teen show and not for kids. i feel like they have all this story but when they dont use it he always just says well its a kids show, like wtf youre making money from the other audiences but you want to throw that away? *sigh

Early by accident lol

I swear to God I'm gonna find a way to get my hands on this show and either get a better writer or rewrite it myself.

I will be sure to write my fan fiction scenes in before their story airs. I am just going to watch what goes down: torment myself watching in order. The last time; it was all over the place and was so 😐 confused with that. Heck, I didn’t even get the plot this way. Being clever this time. In order watching. And save the episodes as they air, even if I don’t watch them yet.

hope ladybug will trust cat noir for now on and not keep him in dark again in season 5

honestly, the most concerning thing about this show is that it canonically takes place over the course of roughly a year there are 108 eps of the show as of when I last checked 2mins ago meaning at least 100 of those days ladybug, and cat noir have fought at least 100 villains. over the course of a year (give or take) they have faced 176 villains according to Marionette akumatized villains are bord meaning that in less than 2 years they have had all that. not to mention the days that have passed where nothing happens to be honest it feels like a Simpsons-type universe to be honest where time works differently explains why Gabe is still so smooth brained he really is still stuck in the season one faze not having grown in a few months worth of time in their universe. this is evident but marionettes bday in season 2 is her 14th and in season 4 Marinette still being 14 I'm presuming the same with season 5. but that's just my opinion of it

Taking in consideration of the fandom too: I a giving Marinette and Adrien develop arc. Some romance and lots of plot. Hope this makes sense..

Let me just say this, if you write the ending before you finish the beginning I hate you. Which is why I’ve had the ending of The Fallen ready for months… I need to get that book out…

Somehow i was dreaming of the Miraculous Ladybug Season 5 Episode with the Pig Miraculous

I hated that marinnet and lucka dated for one episode, like yeh we all want Marinette and Adrien to be a thing but they should've atleast gave us this transition ship with Marinette and lucka and show them daiting for multiple episodes same with Adrien and kagami and through out the season show how these ships are slowly falling and the two of them breaking up at the end of season 4 but no they decided to show US the transition ships and that they don't really work as a couple in one episode in a montage sequence instead of having multiple episodes do the job.

Ladybug got BAMBOOZLED LOL

I think it’s because in miraculous time she’s only been ladybug for about 3 to 8 months at most I was wondering how many times the world ended with what the kwamis said in ephemeral

U know wat u said about marinette breaking up with luka reminded me of smallville where they finally get the two main characters together at the end of season 2, only to back track at the beginning of season 3 and have them break up. The writer's reasoning? Basically the fear of the moonlighting effect, and I'm like THEN WHY DID U GET THEM TOGETHER IN THE FIRST PLACE???? And it proved pointless as they got them together anyway later in the series

I'm thinking Adrien is a sentimonster and he's gonna get Thanos snapped out of existence before the end of the series. I feel tragedy in the wind.

I am really interested to see what happens when suhan comes back. Mari feels so defeated Adrien is going to be her only hope of support

They make the resets and slow development in Pokemon seem like proper development. Especially the relationship between the main couple.

I'm 100% sure that alot of people Including myself won't be satisfied with the reveal and the series finally of the original run of show wich is season 5 cause s5 will conclude the main story that was built up in the previous 4 seasons of the show.

The reason real kisses don’t happen is because some countries will block that scene or remove it completely

10:38 agreed

I really hope they show cat noir go to Mari eventually.

This show had so much potential. I was so excited to see the story. But there isn’t really a developing story. It’s more like the contained episodes of Saturday morning cartoons. But it also has some continuity, mostly in the first two and last two episodes of each season. Just wish they would stop hedging and pick a lane.

Actually, origins is episode 1

Hey, you must have read one of my comments

I don't know

the fact that miraculous is one of the only pieces of media i read fanfiction and fan comics for bc it’s such a great concept but such a horrible execution that fan content is perfect for it. it takes the concept and does what the writers could have done. and i don’t see any hope in this series. it’s definitely going to have a cheesy, mellowed out, corny happy ending meant for children. and is it a childrens show? yes, but that doesn’t excuse shitty writing.

I wonder if the German feüer in World War II knew about the miraculous. Because apparently the miraculous are hundreds of years old.

While I know Marinette and Adrien are endgame. Luka was so good for her. I would've appreciated a storyline where Marinette dates Luka while Adrien dates Kagami for about a season (not just a couple episodes). Both our main heroes grow and get a better understanding of love and being loved. Some reason they break up with their partners, and then they slowly move to each other with a fresh and healthier perspective on relationships. And yes they fucking dropped the ball on Chloe. I was fully on board with a bully redemption arc and they wasted it. The writers make some cowardly decisions

*2:05 Why does he not get an outfit change??

Nobody's gonna ask why the hand of Ladybug here 0:56 is blurred?

And then ChAdNOir, I mean Cat noir😂😂

me

Honestly I don't know how much more I can take of this bad writing, you can't just finally start to develop a character only to throw everything down the drain with other amazing ideas. If they go back to season 1 Marinette/Ladybug I'll be done. Bad writing is what it is and dragging out their relationship for FOUR seasons when the viewer knows DAMN WELL that they'll end up together is RIDICULOUS UTTERLY RIDICULOUS! I have nothing against relationships being dragged out into a slow burner, if it's done well. Miraculous is not an example of a slow burner done well. Conclusion, I'm done, I'm flipping done.

Ladybug has changed her attitude around cat noir I think it started off at the end of the season 4 final ladybug seems to finally feel guilty about how she treated cat noir as for the speech she admits to cat noir asking him why don't you just give up on me? I lost all the miraculoues I'm the worst guardian ever I wanted to control everything I didn't listen to you I lied to you I kept at a distance Every time you offered me something a helping hand I never took it I really made a mess of everything yeah it sure sounded like the way she said to the aduince to cat noir it sounded clearly like she finally realizes that she has been treating cat noir more like a servant than a friend and truly relazies her guiltness as cat noir picks her up and tells her everything will be okay she well she then hugs him the next episode showing her change of heart to cat noir is evolution 1.for the first time in her entire life she looks a lot happy to him not a single sence of them having an argument or just a little fight 2. For the first time in history she is showing generosity to cat noir by giving him the bunny miraculous the next episode of ladybug's true support to cat noir is julblation in that episode she is hit by the power of the pig miraculous and is dreaming of cat noir and herself defeating monarch at last going to the movies with him they kiss they get married they have four babies and by the time ladybug realizes they are in a dream she is shedding the most beautiful tears she has ever made to cat noir she even tells him she doesn't want the dream to end as well people knew that ladybug was dreaming this and for those people who already watched julblation before relazing it they probably thought that Adrian was her dreamboat but no it's cat and as for the next two episodes that has a sign that ladybug now has her eyes on cat noir I will discuss when I watch them anyway I like season 5 ladybug

Insecure LB needs to go. Well,… Personally I wouldn’t precisely cry a river if Marionette were let go completely and forever. She was a… ‘good’ character in season 1, but she’s been loosing me more and more with each season. Season 4 finale was like “finally they acknowledge a mistake by her”, but then all that people chanting her name… Obnoxious.

It's sad, but I feel like Marinette has regressed a bit as a character. I had high hopes for Season 4, and I'm kinda disappointed.

Oop

Owo

Honestly luka is basically those simps you see in shoujo manga the dude is pretty much pathetic he knew how much marienette liked adrien yet he still went after her which failed and it's understandable why they didn't kiss same with adrigami.

Sounds like S4 was when things went to shit. Everything else was great

Yah it’s going in the bad direction and they will never change for sure ladybug and Marnet are bad roll models for growing girls especially in the romance department

Marrinette is in middle school

Honestly at this point Adrien should just be the main character.

I have a feeling that maybe things would be reversed and chat noir would move on from ladybug to Marinette and Marinette would move on from Adrien to chat noir, it'd be raelly interesting switch ngl but then again this show's writing is trash so I don't expect a lot lol Like this show really got potential, if only it wasn't marketed as a "kids show"; it'll probably have better writing.

She is kinda insecure

So we want her to be perfect now? The Mary Sue that her salters think she is? Nah I like her flawed insecure self the way she is, Adrichat already likes her that way anyway so it would feel like taking away what makes her her IMO

Ladybrat is overrated. Cattastic Kitty Cat Noir is the second protagonist yet horribly treated as a lower sidekick to her. I never watched this show for her it's always him, why I still stomach this. Badly written show. Well mini Adrigami, Adrino (brotherly) and Plagg/Adrien moments more.