@@fredsmith-kingofthelunatic7810 yep, people in this country can't take grounded, sober analysis. They are more attracted to political double speak or emotionalism which appeals to their base instincts.
I'm from Sydney, and I felt exactly the same as Will Self before 2000. A lot of it proved to be true. The development was a white elephant and the money would've been better spent on vital economic infrastructure. There was a mini recession in Sydney after the games. But it was all worth it. The way it brought everyone in the city together and made us feel good. It was a two week party, which doesn't make a lot of sense under sober analysis, but had an intangible benefit that was worthwhile.
This is a few days late, but I would just like to say, that in retrospect, it has been a pleasure to discuss a loaded subject with someone coherent and reasonable.
I enjoyed reading Will Self when I was in my teens and hadn't read much - especially the dirty bits of his books. However, I realised over time that he doesn't have much talent as a writer - he's just an amusing hack, and I bet he realises this deep down. HOWEVER - he is one hell of a TV debater. Everything he says here is spot on, and he knows his facts much better than Tessa Jowell does. Totally wipes the floor with her here.
You are not referring to what I am referring. I have not sourced anything from the BNP website. I am referring to a report about stranger rapes in Oslo in a single year reported directly by the Oslo police not some academic report about all rapes across several years.
As someone who worked at Olympic Park in security, two facts we were privy to:- 1. Approx 15,000 empty seats at opening ceremony,... good editing BBC 2. The Olympic stadium had a 230% increase in disabled 'seats' for Paralympics, from 150 to 500 (80,000 capacity),....wow their cup overflowth
I also worked at the Olympic park and can fully say you're bullshitting on the opening ceremony. The only empty seats were intentionally left empty because of the stage blocking it. Don't spread lies, and don't work for something you hate.
Can you direct me to the 'earlier' study please? Give me the author of the study, name of the study, etc etc,I'd like to see the figures an research please. Couldn't find the Malmo Police Figures anywhere except a vague reference except on wikipedia - just so you know wikipedia is not scientific literature, it can be edited by anybody and as such should not be referenced
The Olympics were a glittering monument to great athleticism and sporting drama. The Opening and Closing Ceremonies were a tip of the hat British culture and society. Nowhere in it was a solution to any issues. Now that the tournament is over, Britain's tourist industry has had a boost, things will return to a status quo of an underclass, working class, middle class, and upper class. I watched the Olympics and enjoyed them, but they could've happened anywhere for the sport to be good.
MIGHT? Something we didn't ask for, something we were never consulted about MIGHT work after all if we just keep quiet about its problems and keep the faith with the plan we were never involved with. Why doesn't that make me feel reassured?
Competitive Sport is part of western culture. Ethical tenets of sport include fair play, courtesy toward teammates and opponents, high standards of behaviour, integrity, and grace in victory or defeat. We respect your culture and would never claim it caused 'massive offence', please respect ours.
Show me a link to these figures, show me who this has been published by, who conducted the study, who has came up with these figures - they sound like there from the Daily Mail to me but if they are from a genuine study group I will happily accept them. You cannot just spout these figures without pointing me in the direction of where they have come from so please enlighten me
You missed the point. I asked you to give an analogy which worked, any analogy of anything. That one fails, all analogies fail when you want them to destroy them.
I think you are confusing what real evidence and real citations are. Just reeling off statistics and saying they belong to 'Oslo statistics' is not citing evidence, why is something as basic as an authors name and a title of a report such a difficult thing to post??
Hmm is that the original or the one you read on Wikipedia?? It is a very large study, I cannot respond to it in enough detail on here, however, please watch this video: /watch?v=gLfwpZzPyM0 - as this highlights numerous faults with the study. Also read the comments section in detail, there are some interesting observations by people who clearly know far more about the study than I do.
Here he is wittering on nearly a year ago but despite all his blustering today's Olympic onset is proving magnificent. Now it's Jubilee time he can have a go at the Queen, Will - oh I see he already has: Google ''I'm not toasting [insert head-of-state here]' Was it huff and puff that blew his house down?
It reminds me of when I was in primary school and we had a special assembly to tell us that we'd all soon be joined by a disabled pupil, but that we shouldn't treat him any differently etc., and I remember even then being aware of the paradox of that meeting. Yes, we should just group athetics together I reckon. Disabled athletes are either athletes or they're not. 'Paralympics' seems a little patronising, like we're letting them 'have a go' after the party's over.
@TheTomtuffy Food and drink & accomodation won't scratch the surface of the costs alone, but there are so many other areas where revenue will be increased and indirect costs reduced. In Sydney, tourism revenue was up £6 billion in the year after the olympics compare with the year before. These are figures that will help the whole of Britain. You need to invest in sports, arts and architecture every so often to keep tourism high and our relative tourism revenue has been dropping for years!
The problem is that there was never any call for immigrants to come to Britain from the people of Britain. Never were they asked whether they would prefer higher wages or wages held down by a bunch of Indians and Pakistanis doing the work. Similarly the people were never asked whether they wanted their "betters" to stop capital punishment or corporal punishment or legalize sodomy. The people's interests have been betrayed by politicians who take them for granted and despise their opinions.
The middle Saturday with gold medals for Jessica Ennis, Mo Farah, and Greg Rutherford, you can't get much more of a Wimbledon effect than that. Less than a year later the athletic club in Sheffield where Ennis trained had its funding cut and was closed. Zero legacy, there is almost no political interest in this country to get people active.
I Love Will Self...he doesn`t care what people think about himself, he just talks abjectly and honestly about topics...it`s a shame that our Politicians can`t do the same..Call him left wing, who cares, the guy makes sense of a corrupt system.
A catchphrase is an efficient way of quickly stating and introducing your case to the public. If there is already a logical fallacy in the introduction of an idea or argument, most people will write it off as nonsense before you can explain it. Furthermore, needing to explain the catchphrase will mean you are constantly on the defencive, rather than proceeding to argue the points you set out to make.
You couldn't be more wrong ! I think he gets a lot of joy from stamping on (verbally, at least !) apologists like Tessa Jowell. And it gives me a lot of joy watching him do it !
oh please answer me this question: when did 'diversity' turn up? When did that happen exactl?, I would love to hear when you think it started, please give me a rough estimation, I look forward to hearing your response
If conditions in the east of London are that bad they should have been improved anyway. Why does it requires the temporary residence of a bunch of elite athletes to make it worthwhile?
They are always on about "changing attitudes". Always. Its never ending. Just when you thought it was safe to just do something because you wanted to, along comes a cosy little phrase to remind you of the sickly sweet moralistic vibe that hunts everyone down in society like some rabid fox chasing a wounded cat, which in fact is a subtle reminder that our thoughts are not ours, but theirs. The reality is that most disabled people are not athletes and don't feel any affiliation with Paralympics.
You will see Pakistani doctors living in the middle class ethnic suburb, there are two areas near me where the majority of the people are ethnic minorities but who are all professionals or rich businessmen. They are very nice areas, big expensive houses, nice schools, but the people are Pakistani, Indian, Persian, Jewish, Turkish etc. I correct errors when I see them, it is a good test of character to see how people respond.
OK you are correct, my grammar is not always perfect - in the context of the wider discussion does it matter? Is my point of view lost in my bad grammar? We are entitled to have our say about that decision but, ultimately, that is no different from commenting on any decision anybody makes, religious or otherwise. My point is if that decision has no baring or effect or influence on your life or mine, why should either of us care?
Well the police report was commissioned by the Norweigan government, it gave clear statistics (which you have tried to use to support your own views) and clear guidance on the interpretation of the results. I trust a report from the Norweigan government over wikipeida personally... ..I never said Wikipedia is inherently wrong, but the fact that anybody can simply alter a page without so much as a shread of evidence to back up the change make wikipedia a poor choice to reference
So you won't even try. No, it would not be right to remove somebody from campus for being a racist. Everybody gets called a racist by somebody these days and even racists deserve the right to study and yes, even to teach.
Yes it has. My mind considers many things, nothing is off limits which makes me feel uneasy when I think about it. Gang rape is thankfully rare, it is very rare indeed in homogeneous societies. It is most common in times of ethnic conflict when it is used as a means of showing the dominance of one group over another rather than anything to do with sex.
I keep an open mind and, as a general rule, take any reports in the press lightly. I also pay close attention to any studies, surveys, statistics etc etc as they are often linked to political parties and organizations with their own agenda's rather than being independent. My ideology is malleable - I have core beliefs on how I think people should be treated and how I live my life accordingly but I have nothing to gain from these beliefs - as a result I question everything as much as possible.
@TomMackio That's true, but it's like when the fair comes to town. A lot of noise, and throwing money about and a week later nothing but a pile of litter. It will mainly improve the temporary lot for whomever gets the main contracts to provide services inside the Olympic village. The benefit is for a part of London, not Britain or the UK. When a country is overexcited about, and has to rely upon, tourism from extravaganzas you just know it's headed down the wrong path.
How do you define real science? Does that definition exclude real science which demonstrates human inequality? You have not studied the subject at all, you have clicked on a few websites that give you the warm fuzzies. It is extremely hard to get good data of the sort which could be used to cast light on these issues because those who collect it don't want people to be able to draw "the wrong conclusions" from it so they do their best to make the data impenetrable.
The more I hear and read Will Self (he writes for the NS and LRB and is often excellent), the more I find myself admiring his acuity of mind. Spot on - capital looks for things to do. Was Tessa Jowell or Patricia Hodge who made a speech at a City of London business dinner joking that mass immigration was good for Britain not least because it made finding affordable childcare far easier for the upper middle class. Which turd contained the sweetcorn? I forget.
I do try to see politicians as normal people, I really do but sometimes they don't make that easy. It's as if they get a mindwipe after crossing the threshold of the Houses of Parliament.
What authority do authors of studies have over you or me? Why are their conclusions superior? They looked at findings and used their own biases to draw their conclusions, as did you, as did the BNP. Conclusions are not findings and they are not evidence, they are opinion.
I think elite sport is a value for money thing. It brings a lot of pleasure to a lot of people. The world "legacy" is just a cover word for a million things which could - possibly - be the aftermath of a big event. Even the suicide rare dropped after England won the WC in 1966.
part of the legacy is that they have ruined local grasslands and green areas. They are now left barren and desolate (as reported in the current issue of Private Eye). The locals had assurances that this would not happen. They were lied to.
