Will This Controversial Decision Ruin Minecraft Speedrunning? 

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Imagine you practice for a marathon for years and years. You dedicate your life to it and then someone comes up and is like: "Yea, you can also use cars now"

If only there was a category that allows TOOLS that ASSIST you in SPEEDRUNS.

Straight up insane for them to do this without making a separate category.

I personally would allow a non-programmable physical calculator, just cause I think it would be fun to watch them punch the numbers in

The only way new tools should be allowed is if a new category is made for their use.

"The final part of the run is The End" Look Karl, I know exactly what you mean, but this still got a surprisingly large chuckle out of me

When people started using spreadsheets, how was the question "should we unban calculators?" and not "should we ban spreadsheets?" Also it seems pretty easy to police if you ban both. Disqualify any run that copies the debug log to the clipboard. The game shows when it happens...

It should definitely be it's own category. Hell, most games already have this category. It's called "tool-assisted"

I assure you, my protractor is very necessary for locating the stronghold. Please don’t ban it:(

I’m a musician, and in the world of music when a new tool comes out that makes the process of creating music more accessible it’s always a positive thing. When I started this video that was what I was thinking about and how that mindset could be true with speed running as well. More people being able to run the game without having to know all the strategies and math involved. However it only took me a few minutes to realize that speed running is different. Speed running isn’t art it’s a sport, you should have to learn the strategies and techniques to make it to the top. Speed running has a clear finish line, being the fastest in the world and to be the fastest you should have to play without the aid of any device that simplifies the process. It is hard but that’s the point of it.

There should be two separate categories. One for no F3 + no calculators and one with F3 + calculators. F3 already gives such a huge advantage with techniques such as E-raying to find bastions, quadrant checking, the dragon fight, and stronghold location it's wild that there isn't a separate category for F3 runs even before the recent unbanning of calculators.

They should setup a second webcam with a sheet of paper and a ti 84 where they calculate by hand imo.

This is a lot like the "broomgate" controversy in the sport of curling. I wonder if it will take the same path. In 2009, a scientific paper finally proved what many players suspected: that the direction a player swept the ice could greatly affect the path of the rock depending on the type of broom head the players used. For about 5 years, there was a curling broom arms race, with some teams looking for any edge they could get. There were a group of high level players that outright refused to use the most effective broom heads, because they didn't like the fact that the new heads were so effective that once mediocre teams could make great shots if they had great sweepers. There was a debate on what skills should be rewarded in high-level curling. Since the game's inception, shotmaking had been the most important skill, but in the span of a couple years, upper body strength and endurance became the most important trait a team could have. Eventually, seeing the degradation of the sport into a contest of brawn over finesse and brains, the World Curling Federation banned many broom heads outright and set even stricter rules for major competitions to reduce the effect of sweeping to pre broomgate days.

I'm okay with it, but it needs to have its own category, separate from the category where people don't use it. In this way, everyone can do what they want, and we can watch the ones *we* want.

I love when people are sponsored by Raid and mock it in a way that wouldn't necessarily disqualify them from being sponsored

I'm not a speed runner, so I come to this very much with an outsider's viewpoint, but the introduction of console tools seems to be far more "tool assisted" than allowing someone to automate a bit of 2d trigonometry. Loads of people can do basic trigonometry and write computer programs but feeling your way to a location using only the thrown eyes looked far more like a computer game playing skill.

I have no issues with the use of tools for a speedrun but they should definetely go into a TAS category or even a category of their own.

If they're going to allow calculators, they need a new category then: Human TAS Any% for 1.9 or earlier, 1.10 - 1.16, and 1.17 or later. Just like so many speed runs have Glitched and Glitchless categories, or OOB and In Bounds, Minecraft could have a Human TAS tab. The rule is that the player must be physically active within the speed run, with no external program manipulating any movements, but are allowed to use third party tools to aid in calculations, without altering in-game calculations and game rules, to avoid the Dream Run controversy. If a player is demonstrated to have used a calculation tool or a spreadsheet even once during a run, then they do not qualify for a standard any% category. Since glitches are generally not supported in Minecraft speedruns as they can look very similar to modded speedruns, and do not always work across versions or platforms or even devices (thus an unfair advantage in speedrunning), a Human TAS category could allow extreme players to test the limits, like a glitch or OOB abuse run, without harming the efforts of standard runners on their leaderboards. This would eliminate the need to even ask the questions, because the label will clearly show, this runner is just trying to run the game as fast as possible by any means necessary, rather than only using skills and instinct and functioning within the boundary of the game.

For anyone interested in how the 17.5 block method works, it uses the small angle approximation of sin(theta) = theta where theta is the angle in radians. By throwing your first eye then moving perpendicular to the throw 17.5 blocks, you draw a right triangle between the two points of your throw and the location of the stronghold. The side closest to you is 17.5 blocks long, and the difference between the two recorded angles is the furthest angle from you. From this you can use the definition sin(theta) = opposite/hypotenuse to get the length of the hypotenuse. If you try a few numbers in your calculator (with angles in radians) then you will quickly see that for small angles (~15 degrees or less) then sin(theta) is pretty close to theta, enough for a rough approximation. Why does dividing by 1000 as stated in the video work? The angle in-game is represented as a bearing in degrees. To convert to radians we need to divide that by pi/180. Rewriting the above equation to hypotenuse = opposite/theta, we can plug in the known numbers (opposite = 17.5, theta = measured angle/(pi/180)) to get: hypotenuse = (17.5*180/pi)/(measured angle in degrees). Conveniently (or rather, why the length of 17.5 was chosen in the first place!), 17.5*180/pi is roughly 1000, so 1000/(measured angle in degrees) is a very good first approximation of the distance of the stronghold! If the angle between the two eye tosses gets to big this approximation breaks down, but by imagining the triangle formed by the eyes and the stronghold you can intuit that the stronghold must be quite close by, so this method works even if the maths start to break down.

I think this really shows the issues I've had with Minecraft speedruns. I understand that things like movement patterns and other forms of RNG will always have an effect, but the entire run of Minecraft is based on RNG, where you spawn, Piglin trades, where the stronghold is, etc. It seems like the speedrunners are interested in overcoming the challenge of playing a different world every game, but then they methods which try to streamline and minimise the challenge that logically follows from playing such a format. If you don't want to deal with the difficulties of random worlds, you can already run set seed.

They should just make them separate categories so people who don’t like it can still hold WR and have fun

At that point, why not just do /seed and have a tool tell you where the closest nether fortress, bastion, and stronghold are? It's ridiculous

I feel like with the introduction of external tools like these should be broken into a new category as they do seem to take the spirit away from aspects of the run but are very interesting in their own way. So to keep both communities happy that could be an easy fix

Just to mention, there is at least one example where an external tool actually made a run better, which is windwaker 100% where now days a tool is used to predict the patterns for the minigame "sploosh kaboom" (a version of battleship). But there is one difference. In windwaker the thing that was removed was a pure luck element, because runners could only blind guess and it was just rng if the run died or not. Also you need to input everything manually. But the same principal doesn't apply here because 1. The thing that is removed from the run isn't rng but skill and 2. It isn't even done manually, which from my standpoint would compare if you (an console) don't modify the game but the console (turbo buttons, etc.) And I hope I don't need to tell you why those aren't legal anymore.

I do agree with this but there needs to be something done about speedrunners asking their chat to do anything for them when speed running. It puts bigger streamers at a massive advantage.

I see nothing wrong with tools being allowed, but the run must thus specifically be identified as "Tool-Assisted".

Why not split the leaderboard like theyve done a thousand times? A no F3 leaderboard, an F3 allowed leaderboard, and an F3 plus calculators leaderboard.

When you first said calculator, I immediately thought of those TI-30X calculators we used in school. To me that type of calculator is really just an extension of pen and paper since we were taught how to do everything those calculators could do by hand. I feel like pen and paper are an obvious "tool" for any speed run and I guess by extension a hand held calculator. Maybe for me the line in the sand is "human input" for the calculations, since the tools shown in the video pretty clearly require little to no understanding on the runner's part of the calculations going on behind the scenes. The way the end of the video was worded, it seemed to imply things like pen and paper ought to invalidate a run since a runner could "just remember better" as a skill. Maybe for the hardcore purists that's an actual take. Food for thought.

I feel like this is an easy fix, break the runs into 2 different categories. The first is no pause, no f3, no tools. With the second being called tool assisted, and let people use all that stuff.

why isnt there a leaderboard with no F3 or tools? seems like a simple fix to me

At the beginning of the video, regarding external programs, Karl says, “Gone are the days where you would actually need to use your brain.” Lol then says, “I will also share my opinion at the end.” Hmmm I wonder what his opinion is about these tool assisted runs 😆.

Next up: Minecraft speed running unbans bots navigating for you!? Next Next up: Minecraft speed running unbans hacks!? Next Next Next up: minecraft speed running unbans creative mode!?

Really well made video and we have a bunch of very similar thoughts. Great work Karl and thanks for making a video on this topic :)

I feel like this doesn't belong in speedrunning as I believe everything acheived in a speedrun should be kept in the game. ACE in majora's mask or OoT is acceptable because they are achieved by in-game methods, if they were instead achieved by just rigging the n64 to your computer then it would be different, this is no different.

I agree, and what surprised me the most in this video was learning the arguments for the unban. I'd expect something about how luck doesn't reflect skill, but allowing it because it's too hard to prevent seems ridiculous. Like other comments below, I'm also surprised they didn't just add more speedrun categories. It'd make perfect sense to just split runs into something like standard, calculator and TAS, and maybe variants with or without using f3. In most games with many speedrunning categories it becomes apparent pretty quickly which ones are more popular anyway, and the risk of someone secretly using a calculator in a calculator-less run would be very low. Not because cheaters don't exist, but because most runners participating in no-calculator speedrunning would presumably be people who are against the use of calculators in the first place.

One would expect, with the abundance of new players, that the rules would be made, on the contrary, harder. I don't understand the decision either. It makes no sense to call non assisted, a tool assisted speedrun, even if only one tool is used. In minecraft, finding the stronghold is a real gameplay element, in which skill is important not to waste eyes. it's not like it's full luck finding it.

I love watching a good TAS just to see the craziness that is technically possible but beyond a human ability to pull off (at least reliably), but I also like to see the actual speedruns and how crazy good people get. I agree that this is just making every run a TAS, which ruins the point of a leaderboard.

I think tools become a problem when they're made for things that can be improved on by skill. You cant practice RNG like the wind waker battleship minigame. But you can practice finding strongholds without a calculator.

I agree that allowing calculators for this is absurd, its like allowing students to use their phones on an exam. It completely takes the point out of it.

I have a feeling this is the start of a slippery slope to just using chunkbase to find the strongholds, fortresses, and bastions and if needed towns.

I would love to see Random Seed, Glitchless, Real Time, No F3, No external help (tools or chat or motivational texts from mom) speedruns be a thing. maybe we can allow motivational texts from mom

The simplest solution is to have a category for each. Dont use anything, "PURE" speedrun, and another that is essentially a TAS. If you want a middle ground of a specific tool just for a particular reason, thats fine as well. But dont mix the categories, as a leaderboard makes only sense if the people work under the same rule set, otherwise you compare apples to space ships.

I feel bad for the mods of minecraft speedrunning Having to handle such a large speedrunning community sounds wild

I always thought it was dumb that spreadsheets were allowed and chat was allowed to use calculators and tell the streamer the answers but I wasn't allowed to use a calculator (and by calculator here I don't mean like a program, I just mean an actual physical calculator). To me the question should have been to either allow calculators or to disallow external help in the form of spreadsheets and chat input. Personally I'd be a purist and vote to stick with only using what the game itself had to offer. But there was a vote and there was a result, so now I'm using the Ninjabrain calculator. This isn't what I envisioned it meant by calculator, I thought it meant I could just plug numbers into an actual calculator to save me doing the mental maths, so on that basis I wasn't too against calculators, but the reality of what it's become does remove some of the skill required. Shame because I just learnt how to do axis calculated the day before the change haha. My initial reaction was annoyance at the change, but then trying Ninjabrain out I quite liked it because doing mental maths during a run annoyed me too (I never used spreadsheets). But after two months I'm sad of the direction it's taken because I could have had two months practice with axis calculated and be super comfortable with that by now (although that does use spreadsheets) or even still be happy with the 17.5 block jumps triangulation

This reminds me of something we've been talking about in the Metroid Dread community. There can be a lot of mashing to fire at a boss quickly, and there are people who want to allow turbo controllers. I'm probably a mid-speed masher, and I know that I lose a lot of time when I have to mash a lot, but I'm still adamantly against turbo controllers for it. Just like here, it's a skill that should be worked on, not fixed by a machine.

i feel like the decision was made based on the context, like “if it’s legal to use spreadsheets should it be legal to use calculators” instead of “should tools be allowed during speed runs” but also i just watch these videos for fun so i’m not super knowledgeable on what’s happening

The use of external tools isn't just outside of the spirit of speedrunning, it's outside the spirit of gaming in general. We've become so used to looking things up on wikis in this day and age that many of us have forgotten the joys of figuring things out for ourselves. Minecraft itself, admittedly, has contributed to this problem by actively encouraging players to look things up in walkthroughs, and arguably still being borderline impossible to complete without the use of outside help. However, I think that giving in to a desire to encourage the use of external tools makes the problem worse, not better. I can't imagine that anyone can honestly say that plugging numbers into a spreadsheet is more fun than playing the game properly, even if, as the joke so often goes, people are trying to optimize the fun out of it. But, if such people exist (and I do happen to know a Minecraft player who genuinely has fun working with databases, God bless him) they can always create their own category and compete to see who can spreadsheet the fastest. We can call it the Excel% category.

legitimate question. In reference to your statement near the end of never being able to get behind any external tool for use in a speedrun. What is your opinion then on the Windwaker tool they use for getting past the stupid battleship game? I have always seen that as an exception to the rule of no tools as it was genuinely not skill based and potentially a straight out run killer.

"Well cheating is difficult to detect so we can't police it" is what I'm getting from this.

I’ve always disagreed with allowing pauses. Make all MC speedruns RTA for starters, this would limit (or at least minimize) the effect of external resources.

Shaking my head in disbelief for half of this video. I thought the debug menu was bad lol wow. Incredible video as always Karl. Happy New Year

Can someone confirm if this is still the case?

As a programmer who's interested in speedrunning: I agree. The clipboard usage is clearly a way of communicating between the game and the external tool without "direct" communication. Realistically, that's no different from an autoclicker - or even a TAS, just pulling data instead of pushing it. If external tools are allowed, players should have to manually enter data in. This at least adds a penalty which skilled players might be able to avoid.

I feel like they're going to need to make seperate categories for those wanting to use calculators or anything else to help them speedrun minecraft.

I personally don't think the tools would be that bad if they had their own speed running section for it. It becomes a problem when these runs are uploaded with the runs that aren't using the tools. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

I saw the video about pausing and unpausing during a run to stop the clock. Allowing a calculator basically means you can toss your pearl, pause, do your calculations, then go back to the game KNOWING where the stronghold is without having lost any time. Ridiculous.

The goal of speedrunning Minecraft over other games is to test and watch someone's quick-planning, routing and task optimization. With the addition of a calculator to maximize the first two, a piece of what makes watching and running enjoyable is lessened. It's nice to see when a world record is being lowered by the community, but a run being fun comes first.

I experimented with triangulation using these methods, and I have a few runs worth of statistics that can give you an idea of how precise these methods can be. I'll have to dig it up. IMO, there should be a "pure" category that does now allow external tools, or the F3 stuff, or whatever. Separate would allow assistance of any kind, in-game or otherwise.

Math class: why am I learning this? I'll never use it? Young teacher: looks like you'll never be a mine craft speedruner

18:40: I mean, I sympathize, but I think hell would freeze over before a stream chat stopped backseating

As regards the calculator rule, I always thought it was a bit silly. After all, during a math heavy task, why shouldn't I pull out my trusty TI-84? However, seeing what is actually meant by "calculator" in this context, I agree wholeheartedly that they have no place in a legitimate competition.

I feel like this was an inevitability after allowing the f3 debug menu.

I have an opinion about this as an old League of Legends player. There are jungle camps and neutral objectives in the game that have a set respawn timer. The player in the jungler role is basically speedrunning these objectives to gain experience and gold. In early League, it was common for an experienced player to either put into chat or his head "Drake 12:30" after defeating the dragon objective at 7:30 for example. It used to be a basic part of every good Jungler's skillset that you had to rely upon. Riotgames then changed the game to feature built in respawn timers that everyone could access at any time. A lot of people were very angry and afraid that this would decrease the possible skill expression for the Jungle role who now had objectively less to do during the game. It's been many years since this change and the game has yet to hit a skill ceiling, on the contrary, high level Junglers are doing incredible things. I see the League change as more of an "unleashing" of other skills where now you can focus much more on improving a different skillset.

bros got more chatters than couri

While I agree with the points you’ve made, what happens when you use the F3 menu, and chat uses a calculator, beyond your control, and they say the calculated value in chat? Is your run invalid because someone else spoiled it for you? It’s worth thinking about. Edit: I wrote the comment like 20 seconds before you commented about it in the video. Yeah like, technically if the calculated answer appears in chat at all, the run is technically invalid if the “calculators banned” rule were enforced without limitation. So it means the streamer could never look at chat, or not have a chat at all, for fear of someone ruining their run by giving them the calculated value.

"Call it what it is, a tool assisted speed run". I love this idea!! We see this concept used WIDELY in the entire Speed Running community, i don't see what Minecraft should be any different when external tools are clearly being used.

I'm really curious how something like this compares to the Sploosh Kaboom tool for Wind Waker 100% runs in how people view the impact on runs.

I agree that they maybe should have made a separate category for this. I enjoyed the GDQ vids I've seen of the runner having to manually find the stronghold, I thought that was impressive.. A real shame I might not see that again in future runs

I feel like tools should be allowed in a case-by-case, game-by-game, tool-by-tool basis. For example, the Sploosh-Kaboom tool for Wind Waker. In order to finish a 100% run, about 30-40 minutes in, you have to basically play battleship 3-4 times in a certain amount of shots. Runners hate Sploosh-Kaboom because it's pure RNG in a mostly skill-based run (not to mention it can use up a ton of Rupees needed for other things later in the run), and viewers might think it's boring to watch someone play single player battleship for 10+ minutes just to finish a run. A tool was developed that figures out what RNG step a player is on and can more or less tell what a given Sploosh-Kaboom board would be based on previous boards. A vote was made to allow the tool, and it passed. A boring 10 minute portion of the run can now be done in about 5. In Minecraft's case, I personally don't think the tool should be allowed, or at the very least a category split should be made for use of the tool versus not being able to use it. Wind Waker's case is a 4+ hour 100% speedrun with the possibility of a run completely burning due to bad RNG, even if the prior 30 minutes were absolutely perfect. Minecraft is a 10-15 minute run where many attempts can be made in a few hours and adapting to RNG is a) *possible* and b) *part of the run.*

Remember when Karl warned of this outcome a year ago

Personally, I feel that the distaste for spreadsheets in runs is a bit uncalled for. A spreadsheet is more akin to a book of trig tables than a digital program performing trigonometry calculations directly from clipboard information. Think about how trig and calculus tests used to be vetted. Using a book of trigonometry tables was almost certainly allowed in those cases

Are Goldeneye speedruns that use rubber bands/tape on the TV screen as a makeshift reticule in a different category than runs that don't use these tools? This would seem to me to be pretty similar.

At what point are runners going to take the seed and input it into a program to "calculate" the exact X,Y,Z of the stronghold and overlay arrows on the map of exactly where to go? What if they automatically analyzed each world based on the seed and overlayed arrows pointing to the best chests, bastion location, most optimal paths, or straight up said "seed not runnable" saving the runner time? Allowing any form of tool I think opens up a can of worms. Have a separate category.

I think tools should allowed but in their own separate category. I'm something of a purist and don't like people trying to use anything but their own two hands to achieve their times. If someone wants to use a tool that's fine. I just think those should have their own categories like many other games have. Allowing for tools to be used in runs without separating them from runs that don't is kind of a slap in the face of the runners who worked their asses off practicing strategies, perfecting travel efficiency, optimizing menu navigation etc... Imagine if the tilted cart strat or the disassembled second controller trick were allowed in Goldeneye speedrunning. It would shit on everything all the runners worked for years to accomplish. All the WRs that took years to achieve would cease to be the amazing feats that they are. I mean Karl if you read this think about how shitty it would feel if they started to allow those tricks again and all your records would go from being awesome feats of skill and practice to looking like what records from pre look down look like today.

I think those runs should have their own category. Something like Any% CAS (Calculator Assisted Speedrun).

as usual i completely agree with you. allowing tools like this without having a specific category for them seems like a way to just bring the WR times down and take away a chunk of the effort/skill it takes to get them in the first place.

I'm against the use of tools, also I'd like pausing to be prevented during the runs to prevent all these calculations. As mentioned in the video: using tools will take away the skill involved from being skilled at the game to being skilled at using these tools fast enough.

Allowing outside tools like this, without putting them in their own category, is extremely shortsighted and hilariously dumb. At that point you might as well just cut out the middle man. Just slap your entire seed into Chunkbase and look up the closest End Portal yourself. Go ahead and find the closest Blaze spawner and Bastion while you're at it, we'll wait.

Personally speedrunners should run it the old way and not with F3 for any tools

It seems like such an easy fix, split ntcs and pal for wii sports, split calculator runs and non calc runs, just make it fair for everyone, afterall its all for fun and prestige Edit: considering the split between unban/ban this is clearly not a big enough majority to just do it directly imo

The point of finding the stronghold is to use your game knowledge, and experience and understanding of the games mechanics to locate it. I don’t care what method they use, if you have the location literally given to you without any in game effort, then it is by definition assisted. Really feels like they missed the forest for the trees with this decision.

I love how speedrunners responded to the banning of calculators by just making massive log tables. In all sincerity, this was an inevitable result of allowing the F3 screen. Either ban both, or ban neither.

Karl Jobst, If you don't think calculators should be used in Minecraft, I'm curious what are your thoughts are on LoZ Wind Waker Sploosh Kaboom in speedruns?

The problem with unbanning these tools, and not having seperate categories is all it does is put pressure on those who never used them to start using them, or else they're likely to never make it on the leaderboard at all because of those actively using them.

I can understand how these calculations would be incredibly unfun for many, but without question this should be limited to a specific category of runs.

As someone who has spent countless hours speedrunning a game, I can’t imagine letting something like this ever be legal. If anyone even suggested this to me as a moderator/runner, I would almost be offended tbh. I get it, it’s hard to do this stuff on the fly and the randomness is annoying, but if it’s so annoying just run a different game or category. Don’t ruin the integrity of the leaderboard or game. I’m disappointed by this news, and I hope it’ll be changed in the future

Imagine running a category where the randomness of the seed is the point, trying to use tools to effectively eliminate the RNG of the seed when there is already a fixed seed category.

Man it's really weird seeing this perspective when I've seen a similar thing in Wind Waker speedrunning where eventually a tool was made to calculate the battleship minigame to universal joy, not a single complaint calling it a TAS. Suppose the big difference being that it was just RNG to deal with in that case, no real strategy. I see the appeal in performing tracking skills but I don't really see this as particular different from any big route change or glitch discovery in a game. It'd be laughable to hear people cry out that the new route removes skill or that "glitch abuse" is ruining the competitive spirit in speedrunning in any other community so I don't really how this is somehow different. Especially strange to claim it could ruin everything when you'll generally see a category split to accommodate everyone in these situations, hell you don't even need an official one really, you can just start doing it right now without what you consider tools and label it as such. Though, I wouldn't even agree that calling it a TAS is any more fair than calling using the strategies gained from the community instead of coming up with your own an assist, is that not "letting someone else do the work for you?" God knows work isn't just execution, you're already calling talking to others over discord one so why not? Are we going to call using splits in your speedrun a TAS because you could just work on the skill of feeling out how your run is instead of having a tool tell you your run is dead? Tool assisted is literally accurate but it's not really how the acronym TAS is used. Last thing is that I just can't agree with what you say is the point of speedrunning. Boiling it down to just being a competition of skill really strips down what makes it fascinating to me and surely many others, a community wanting to finish something as fast as they can. People making tools, data mining to understand mechanics, glitch hunters doing it the old fashioned way, and skilled runners to execute it all working together to absolutely crush time barriers is honestly what I love about this hobby. Could say any Mario 64 category aside from 120 stars is missing the point seeing as other categories vastly "bypass the skill of getting all 120 stars". Sure, competing and showing off how good you are is great fun, but I personally don't think it comes before "beat the game in the least amount of time possible" to the point where new innovations are shunned because "C'mon guys I put a lot of practice in doing it the old way."Course, If you don't enjoy the new ways that's why category splits happen and it most likely will happen here considering how people are reacting. No hate either way of course. Neat video overviewing the subject but I just can't agree.

The tool doesn’t make it more fun, it doesn’t make the runs more interesting and it doesn’t increase the skill required. It just makes it easier, not in an intelligent interesting way it’s just easier. I guess you could make the argument it makes it more accessible but is that worth the overall reduction in challenge and skill.

Simple solution from my ignorant point of view: Reban F3. Takes away any of the problems with policing tools as it kills any of these current strats. I don't know just how badly that will effect the runs, and how they'd become even more swingy in terms of luck than before. Maybe it would be too much for the community. But I think using tools hurts the competition too much to be allowed.

Happy new year Karl keep the amazing content coming 😁

For me, it comes down to what tools are within the game and who is playing the game. Macros are banned because they are 1) not within the game and 2) not the speedrunner playing. Aimbots are the same. Modifying controllers is generally banned in speedrunning as well, correct? Let's look at calculator/ spreadsheet use. It is 1) not within the game and 2) not the player doing it. Based on these assumptions as to what dictates an unmodified speedrun I believe that they should be banned.

I feel there are edge cases where external tools make the run more interesting or remove arbitrary RNG that would otherwise cause excessive resets in otherwise flawless runs. Not sure that this qualifies under that, though. Finding the stronghold seems like a major part of the run, not an arbitrary bit of RNG, and there's gameplay elements already in place to help.

If massive game breaking glitches found early in a game's life can kill hype, I can only imagine how bad tool assisted speed runs that are not proper TAS will kill interest. Removing the human element without replacing it with dedication like those seen in proper TAS just removes the fun.

If tools aren't allowed stop reading the programmed code and logs completely. U can't keep ur two legs on two cliffs without a bridge. Either ban using the angle and get super large speedruns or use tools and get faster ones. Pause abuse makes sense but this criticisms on calculators doesn't. Pokemon abuses calculators a lot trying to understand how much damage one move can do to a pokemon. This is but one example. I admit that tools using programming shouldn't be legal but that runs for the f3 screen too if u allow people to read rpgrammes well might as well let bots play too.

Sounds very lame to use tools outside the game to help the speed run. Sounds very sus dude

This isn't the first game I've heard use external tools for speedrunning, as Windwaker also allowed a tool for speeding up one of its minigames. The key difference between the cases, and why I think that calculators should not be allowed is that 1.) the section in Windwaker that was sped up was a 30-minute, mostly luck-based section with little math and 2.) the tool was fully external (no copy and pasting coordinates). I am more sympathetic to tools that make games more skilled-based and more watchable, not the other way around.

The whole point of this specific category is that it's random/no pre-generated seed, yes? The best way to handle it would be to create a separate category that allows the use of some limited tool/s to be able to find stronghold. But like you said, at that point it's basically an ongoing slope of 'where do you stop allowing tools?'. If you allow tools to find the stronghold, why not tools to find the nether fortress or bastions? or villages in the overworld? Why bother with a random seed at all, if you're just going to start allowing tools and methods to 'undo' some of the randomness? At some point, you may aswell be running a pre-generated seed. But either way; it should really be a separate leader-board altogether to denote the differences in skill/execution.

completely agree, i can understand pausing other games timers for load screen variations... somewhat, but the category is arbitrary now. I'd love to see the dissidents form a new category called like, 'RSG Honorable' or something like that. I feel like all of this comes out the hustle for stream donations rather than a love for the game.