Will We Ever ACTUALLY See The 277 Sig Fury? 

Hmmm...80k PSI from a 16" barrel. Don't forget your ear protection, because the muzzle blast is going to be awe-inspiring.

I think the .270 catrage is the Best balanst bullet and catrage out of the 30-06 catrage. Since it could stabilize 165 grains long bullets it's the best. Thanks keep it up Ron.

Hi Ron, great video, as usual! Keep it up. - one other consideration is that the Sig Cross rifle for the. 308 and 6.5 CM are already designed for the 80,000 psi, hence they don't look much different to these 277 version. (From a manufacturing perspective this makes far more sense, plus I seem to recall that this is what was said when the Cross rifle were initially released) - the shorter barrel makes sense a) for the military to make a handier and lighter weapon, b) use of military suppressors and still be under 20" barrel and suppressor - that DOES translate to hunting - suppressors :- maybe don't need 16", but 18" with a Banish Backcountry - again so that overall length is down around 20"-22" - very useful - plus light weight - so balances better when carrying - high pressure allows faster powders, so that burn up is achieved faster in case and short barrel - much like the Ruger and Hornardy cartridges the RCMs and 375/416 Ruger, and 375 Ruger tops the 375H&H numbers in 20" barrel, not 24" ->> and NO-ONE complained about a more handy dangerous game rifle... - higher pressure will need a suppressor - higher pressure will allow more efficient burn, this reducing barrel burn risk - this use of .277 bullets is superb news for all hunters and shooters - will drive the development of lots more .27/6.8 bullets with high BC and Sectional Density and strong (mono metal and bonded, and terminal ascent etc) - with the slow twist rate of the old 270 there was NO incentive or market to develop .270 bullets, saved they have lagged far behind 7mm and .30 bullets designs (just like with the .25 cal situation). This new .277 Fury will be an excellent catalyst! Already Browning has announced new rifles in .270Win with 1:8 twist barrels as an option - YAY! Already the pendulum swings towards the good for ALL .270Win users, even if they choose to stick to their existing rifles - but there will be new ammo choices coming for then to consider in there future - the Sig Cross hunting rifle is very compact, and had a superb folding stock that helps reduce weight and size. Combined that with a short and or shortish barrel that is suppressor ready for handy overall length :- and you've got a great handy hunting rifle package - yet to be seen, but I suspect that the SAAMI specs with be tight - like the Hornardy PRCs, the 6.8 Western, the Weatherby RPMs etc -> modern accurate cartridge designs, and handle the same long-for-calibre high-BC high-SD (sectional density) bullets that make the 6.8 so great. Overall -> lots to be excited about, and things that still spill over to the benefit of all shooters and hunters - esp users of the .270Win A rising tide benefits all the boats in the same harbour 😊

20:24 well no, he said they are dropping it to 70,000 18:10 so 5,000 PSI above the 270 winchester.

Dumping a ton of $$ into hair splitting research for this new cartridge. All the while our adversaries still use the Soviet .30 cal cartridges from 1/2 a century ago and longer (x39 and x54). Their modernization was the 5.45 more recently. The way wildcatters are always tweaking things, there has to be a better solution out there that has already been proven vs the Pantagon War of financing manufacturers who will have delays based on the good idea fairys asking for it to have zero recoil yet penetrate the armor of an enemy tank at 500m. Great video Ron, not knocking you at all. Big fan, you cover such a variety of shooting topic, I keep coming back for more.

Is it an improvement? Yes. Is it worth me getting a new expensive rifle and new accessories? No. I will stick to my 243.

thicker case walls are required for the steel head less powder cap or faster powder, they held world record for a short period of time, until better bullets, barrels, came along and the dasher

We may never see the partial steel case military version.

I remember reading some gun writer, Grinnell or Seyfried, I don't remember who, writing an article back in the 70s playing with steel head cases. He reported higher velocities.without issues from a Remington 700. However, he did not publish those velocities nor loads.

I could listen to Ron talk about bullets and guns all day. The amount of passion and enthusiasm he has for the sport is contagious!

This will be nothing but problems. Every aspect of this is prone to failure. It will never replace the m16 ar15 platform long term. Its gona eat barrels and jam like crazy

Pearls before swine. The Marine Corps ELR qual targets were removed from XTC competition in 1965 for being too big. The U.S. Army routinely fails to get soldiers capable of shooting 6MOA prone supported slow fire. Most uniformed personnel can't fully exploit the capability of 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO.

Nifty, but with the performance window at 70,000 psi it doesn't seem tochave much more juice in the squeeze than a 270 or 6.8 western.

I'D TAKE THE THE 7MM-08 ALLDAY

I run my 7mm08 at 3150 with a 140 Nosler AB. Took some work and thinking outside the box. But I got it...the .277 is very intriguing

Compare the numbers on the 6.8 Western with similar grain projectiles

Why would I want a neutered 277? Most of the ammo out there for civilians will have brass only cases for a long long time.

Thinking about the possibility of resizing the brass to get a hopped up 358 Winchester

Prediction: If it is not viable for the reloading populous, It will be limited to the fake billionaire boyz. Not much of the wild game wearing body armor these days.

Well now wait a minute. The biggest piece of news from this video is they're lowering the PSI to 70,000. If 80,000 causes poor accuracy, and 70,000 is required to maintain accuracy, how was that not noticed during trials and how is it Sig gets to keep the contract?

The muzzle blast is going to loosen some fillings and your ears are going to leave the chat....

Excellent video! I understand this cartridge much better now. I’m in my early 30’s and I’m going to stick with my 270 win and 7 rem mag too. I think this cartridge is unnecessary for civilians and the military.

i dont care about 277 fury.. You can pay 10+ a round Ron.. NOT ME!

Sounds like I will just be keeping my tried-and-true 270 Winchester as well. Thanks for the data!

Evidently the army plans on using non-steal head cases at lower pressures for training and most use, to spare barrel life. Only using the high pressure loadings for actual combat. When the rifle debuted there were several gun tube channels that reviewed it, but no one was able to get a hold of the high pressure ammo.

id rather just buy a 7mm 08

Total step backwards in tactical use. While the cartridge does have ballistic advantages, tactically it gives the foot soldier less. More weight per round means less carried, less magazine capacity (20 vs 30), more recoil, two different pressures/ ballistics. Support soldiers will still carry the M4 and 5.56. It will be like WWII, people dumping the M7 for a lighter, handier and more ammo of the M4. (vs M1 Garand/M1 Carbine)

I have the good ol 270 Win in a SS Tikka. I can get 3140 fps with a Barnes 130g TTSX using a stout dose of Ramshot powder. I feel like a dinosaur, but it is not broke so I am not going to "fix it" by spending money on a new cartridge. Great video by the way. Very informative.👍

Back in 1998 I was looking at a long range pistol in Bisley. It was chambered on 338-06 with a steel head case. Using a triplex load (3 different powders) and running at an estimated 90/100,000 psi. This is nothing new and it offers nothing to the military or hunters. Hunters already have cartridges that shoot well to beyond ethical ranges and "Bullpups" already (since 1949) give nice high ballistics from short rifles at lower pressures for the military. It is a fascinating cartridge and I am sure it is effective, but I think it is a solution to a problem that does not exist.

This is total bullshit...As usual our Military/Industrial complex has spent gillions of our dollars for something that is going to end up a non starter...Long available .308 rounds will toast the furry, excuse me, 'fury' heheheh. These new riles are likely to melt under the stress of 80,000 psi, not to mention barrel throat erosion...As for the .270 comparison, chit compare it to what you can do with a modernly loaded 7x57 Mauser (which is where the '06 /.270 came from in the first place, and that was developed in the 1800's.... Then there's the EXPENSIVE design/construction of their round itself. Is anyone, drooling for 2.00 to 3.00 US per round? Put all this together and ask, "what's the total benefit"? I don't see ANY.

277 fury = 270 wsm = 6.8 western

Advancements like the case design and pressure capacities in the fury are really intriguing and beneficial. The round is appealing to me in a decent hunting rifle. While I have not hunted with the cross, I have handled one and it’s just not a rifle I would like to hunt with. I love your videos Ron and I do not see you trading your 284 winchester for a cross in 277

But the point of the .223 is that it is light so you can carry a lot of them ...

Ron you know how great a 6.8 Western is You have done a fantastic story on the 6.8 Western & taking a white tail at distance- one shot 😮

Sounds interesting..... But I'll stay with my 270.

Should do a direct comparison between 277 fury and the 6.8 western?

What could you line a barrel with to take the kind of heat full auto would generate at 80000psi? Heck we can't even put good chrome in our barrels thanks to the EPA.

Hello throat erosion.

I like your video, Ron. To answer why the short action matters over the long action, it’s the weight of the ammo. When you got to carry hundreds to maybe 1000 rounds up and down the side of a mountain it matters. Soldiers do it all the time. 1000 rounds of 556 is lighter than 1000 rounds of 308.

Excellent video, as always. This cartridge may meet military requirements, improving upon the 5.56 considerably, and offering greater lethality and range than the 7.62x51. As hunting cartridges go, the 277 Fury is a solution desperately in search of a problem. It will offer 6.8 performance from a shorter-barreled rifle. In very select instances, that might be appealing to some folks. For the vast majority of hunters, specifically those who do NOT conflate shooting with hunting, they will continue to get well within the effective PBR of traditional rifle cartridges, like the 270 Winchester, and will continue to harvest game with great aplomb, just as they always have. As a lifelong reloader, this cartridge is a complete non-sequitur for yours truly. I'd sooner date my ugly cousin that own a rifle chambered to fire that atrocity. I wish Jack was here, to offer his thoughts. His unique blend of experience and knowledge, aka "wisdom", and his unparalleled ability to concisely explain the truth of a hunting-related topic, is sorely missed in today's world. What you read or view, these days, is politically-correct and invariably panders to whichever sponsors are paying the bills, this week. I suspect that is the only means by which this cartridge ever gets off the drawing board, at least as far as big game hunters are concerned.

So if the pressure drops down I imagine we will see less velocity. Suddenly the 270 Win looks a lot better. I believe the 6.8 western is better than either except I don’t like Winchester ammo.

Imaginary cartridges. Still not as versatile, commonly available, inexpensive or 100% proven as the.308... ;-J

Sig Pro: They are always innovating. Sig Con: They are prohibitively expensive and near impossible to find. I highly doubt it will catch on.

The use of this new SIG cartridge, is about as useful as " Wet Toilet paper ." There is already to many new cartridges. Very few are really needed . Undoubtedly, it's going to burn out barrels way to quick .

Actually, the 5.56 works quite well. Bullet design is the key. Match it to the job at hand.

Ron I'm skeptical about SIG claims about barrel wear. Especially since the SIG rep intentionally did not tell you they are developing two rounds for the US Army. The 80,000 PSI load that will be the combat round and a lower pressure round closer to 60,000 PSI to avoid barrel wear for in service weapons for training. I think these claims the civilians will ever get anything approaching the military power is like the claims FN made for the 5.7X28mm. The magic round that would penetrate military body armor from a PDW never made it into civilian market. What we got was something of a way overpriced .22WRM. The two SIG offerings currently are brass only cases. I'm sure they are NOT 80,000 PSI. (Secretly waiting for a 6.5 Swedish Fury)

Pure BS. 80,000 PSI will chew up barrels faster than the 220 Swift. Then what are they going to do with the primers that will be cratered or worse pierced. Finally I got a look at the Army's version and it grouped at 3 inches. You couldn't give me this rifle.

I thought I heard the Sig guy say the commercial round will be loaded to lower pressures (Than 80,000 psi) for increased accuracy.?

Spot on! They got it right 99 years ago! But I’m sure a bunch of people will run out to buy the soup de jour and pay $6-10/round. I’m sticking with jack coopers favorite.

DOA cartridge, 7prc, 28 Nossler, 6.5 prc, 6.8 western already make the fury irrelevant for the civilian market. Its a fad cartridge

Do you all remember what the US Ordinance Department did to the Stoner rifle? Changed the length of the barrel, changed the powder from rod to ball, and one other change that escapes me now. So what will the Ordinance Department do to mess this new round/rifle up? Something, count on it.

Jack O'Connor is somewhere laughing his ass off

We’re going to see this technology applied to 5.56 instead of the standard rifle being in 6.8. You’ll be able to get 3000 fps out of a MK 18 with a 77 grain projectile, or 3200+ fps using the M855a1 projectile. It doesn’t make sense for them to give up the larger ammo capacity for the standard soldier. Big difference between 210 and 140 rounds for a basic combat load. I’ll take a MK 18 throwing 1800 ft/lbs of energy with every round and only weighs 6.5 pounds.

.277?...............WHY? with all the calibers out there, its just a Nitch caliber. If the military rejects this caliber, it will fade away.

The 6.8 western isn't really any difference out to 500 yards in the 165 grain winchester long range accubond vs the hornady 6.5 prc in 143 eld x precision hunter none all these calibers to a point mean to much of no difference Ron please cover all these weight and similar calibers cuase the numbers are all close even with hand loading with the 6.5 creedmoor but not the powder of the 6.8 western and the 6.5 prc witch those to are pretty mich the same just slightly different shoulder angel

SIG has removed this rifle (MCX spear .277)from their website. I’ve lost hope

😂 they probably realized they would have been better doing all this to the 6.8 spc II and adding a 120 grain vld.

We have a of actual, real-world ballistic data on the .270 Winny. The .277 Fury hybrid cartridge is still vaporware until we get hundreds of hunters get actual loads, into actual rifles, used on actual game/targets. A reduction of 10k psi in the Hybrid case 6.8x51mm will 100% cause the XM8 to miss the original contract requirements.

Velocity matters because it's 'squared'. Surely 30 fps/inch for an extra 8" is 240 fps?? If you own a 270 you'd never buy a 277 Fury, unless you have more money than sense. If you had neither, the 6.8 Western?

Steel heads means RUST!!! it's temporary ammo with an expiration date! Exactly what the atf and government wants. Sig is playing with the government imo. I'm not sold on the hybrid at all. Full brass forever!

I won’t hold my breath. 65k to 80k is a meaningful jump and very different than current centerfire cartridges. Dropping it down to 70k is literally 1/3 of the promised increase. Handloaders stand on their cartridges all the time and are at or around those pressures. No way it beats the 270 with only a 5k max difference considering the 8 or so extra grains of powder the 270 win should have (assuming the capacity is slightly bumped up from the 308 family). Not worth years and years of piss poor quality control issues that will inevitably plague these cases or the inflated prices that will be charged to pay for the R&D and new machinery that will go into the new case manufacturing. Lead balloon alert.

Hay Ron you should talk about the difference in the three methods of measuring pressures. Winchester using one method. military using another method. Something like that.

Hey Ron, I really like your videos and I especially like this one because you consider that not everyone has been in the sport for decades. For most of us, the rifles we buy are the ones we are stuck with. The younger folk need your knowledge and experience to make a good decision.

A 6 ARC with that higher pressure would have been great.

An issue I can see is the amount of investment that will have to be done at Lake City in order to manufacturer the steel head ammo in the amount the military needs.

I'm too old for this sh*t.

Mr Patrick said they dropped it to closer to 70k psi. , that will cut some of the benefit. I would say, 20" barrel to get .270 win speeds . So, short action 270 is what you will get. Nothing more, nothing less. If I was a Western hunter, I'd choose 6.8 western over the fury any day. Higher BC, more bullet weight, it's a no brainer, but since I've already got more rifles than I need, I'm sticking with my 270 win. Been a mighty good friend to me for 30 yrs.

Have you seen the .308 vs .277 fury vs steel by banana ballistics? I love my x bolt .308 and the .270 cartridges. But that video says a lot

270 Weatherby shoots faster bullets. Then again, that is for killing deer. Christ Bless!

As a marine in Afghanistan 5.56 took to many shots especially when they were hopped up on chewing there poppy bulbs and god knows what else ..we need a one mabe two shot caliber..not a 5-6 shot 5.56 ..dont get me wrong shot placement any caliber works but when your in a two way fire fight sometimes up to a couple hundred yds 5.56 is just underwhelming to say thr least

Awesome video as always Ron! Your the man!

For the average hunter I'm not sure the .277 Fury will matter. An 18" AR chambered in 6.8 SPC II using a 120 grain SST with a .400 bc traveling at 2,500 fps and a scope 2.5" above bore with a 50 yard zero will be 1" high at 100 yards, .3" high at 150 yards and not an inch low until about 180 yards, and still has almost 1,000 Ft pounds of energy at 300 yards. And now before the Fury even hits the market it is being downloaded 10,000 ft pounds of pressure. Real world commercially I just don't think it will be worth it to most people.

For a civilian wanting a hunting caliber, I can’t see the point of an 80KSI cartridge would be. The fury basically replicates a 270wsm or 6.8 western. So, get one of those. For a military force, keeping the 308 case dimensions and upgrading power makes a lot of sense. Lots of easy conversions from AR-10s or belt fed machine guns if you keep the same case (roughly). Same belt links, same magazines, same tooling for the assembly lines. Lots of savings there at scale, even if you can’t just drop a new barrel/bolt on an existing firearm.

very few options for rifles or loads for the western, has been a nightmare with even reported little dies or brass at all for reloading? the lack of support from the industry for the western is disastrous. A western in the right rifle b rand and model with even 1 20 or 22 inch barrel could be a great thing just a little more punch than the 6.5 PRC. might not need a can either so great for hunting, a Bergara or Tikka please

Meh. More impressed with 6.8 Western

As a 7mm/08 owner. And a 6ARC owner....Yawn.

The reality is that the Army is adopting the cartridge, and over time ammunition contracts will cause more manufacturers to make it. Also, there will probably be subsequent improvements.

The idea that a very heavy, overpressure, short barreled rifle that uses heavy ammo would be a great idea was thought up by people who will NEVER have to carry or fight with it. Really really stupid.

7x57 is the OG .

I'm sticking with the 270 wsm t

My hybrid 6.8 rounds are "running late" an hour from my house stuck with FedEx I am sitting by the window like a kid. My spear in 6.7 is sitting waiting too

I want them to bring back Flechette's. I want to see what the wound channel of a steel dart flying at 5k fps is. This .277 Fury is just the logical step in fire arm technology. More bullet, more powder, more pressure, more range. Nothing THAT innovative. That being said. If adopt by the civilian market in large enough quantities, the 6.5 creedmore will become obsolete.

The .277 is really cool…..however….do we as hunters need it ? But if it’s your cup of tea…enjoy. With a brake and all that pressure it’s gonna be LOUD

The 277 is really cool, I'm not gonna lie. But for hunters? It doesn't add anything meaningful unless you wanna buy something unique. For the army I could see the gains of higher penetration, flat trajectory out of a short barrel and short action rifle, with a compact ammo, but the average hunter is not gonna care that much about that.

I once shot an 85 gr, 243 Win lead soft point at a 1/2” plate of AR-550 steel at the range of 35 yards. That steel is supposed to withstand up to 338 Magnum at 100 yards. The little bullet, at 35 yards, was going so fast that it punched a hole through the 550 steel that looked like it was punched with a paper punch. Clean little hole! I was completely surprised as were my shooting buddies!

I'm not sure if it exists yet , but I await the introduction of either the 7mm/378 Wby....or the 270 /378 Wby. That would be pretty awesome!!!

The crux is at 8:43: “This is conjecture on my part.”

I just don't care about taking the new girl to the dance anymore. It'll be fascinating to see how the technology pans out, but the 277 Sig just isn't for me.

I'd rather have the 6.8 Western.

The shorter barrel is definitely the appeal on this cartridge. The military is going to be using this with semi and full auto with a suppressor. Try and put the suppressor on the 270 and clear a room lol

I know at my gun stores around here 277 sig fury ammo can be commonly found but as mentioned rifles are near nonexistent

In my minuscule mind they would’ve saved a ton of $$$ by just using the 6.8 Western🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️ I think that would’ve made a incredible military round

I think a 7mm Sig Fury would be more interesting... but there's already a 6.8 Western. Yeah... it will be popular simply because it's military.

Barrel erosion can easily solved. But at a cost of course. Inconel 718,ARP 3.5, or AerMet can be used. Never been used for this application but that doesn't mean it can't.

At the ranges that people can realistically shoot deer/elk/whatever at, can it do anything that the 270 cannot?

Interesting thought......a .277" caliber bullet at .270win velocity in a 16" barrel..........6.8 Western 16.5" barreled xpr sr? Could be a good test for a seemingly odd setup. I wonder how close that is to the sig round?

The military has designated the Spear as the “XM5” 🙄 Sorry, it’s the “XM7”, now.

I was looking into some other 27 calibers. The 150gr 277 fury ammo near matches 270 weatherby magnum in velocities with the same bullet weight and the same barrel length. I think that shows the capabilities of the high psi cartridge. A short action with "magnum" power.

21:13 There is already a 9mm cartridge with the 2 piece case. Available in quantity.

270 I'm all ears