Winds of Winter Predictions: Revenge of the Rhoynar 

“Beware the wrath of a patient man.”

I thought the show and the long wait for TWoW had killed it for me, but Quinn and LML are seriously getting me excited about ASOIAF again.

at first I was wondering why Doran was sending his children out to fail but now I'm thinking that he's waited a bit too long and he's got no choice anymore

I can understand Doran's hesitancy so well. I've had moments pass me by because they weren't perfect, only for nothing better to ever come again. The blood orange is passed ripe

If Barristan survives the Battle of Fire, I'm sure Doran would belive Ser Barristan. And Ser Barristan knows what happened to Quentin.

Can I just say that I super appreciate that you and Quinn don't have a blanket, automatic hatred of the female characters and their storylines. I think I spent too much time shitty 4chan GoT threads* that I find all this really refreshing. Appreciate your guy's work! Keep it up! (*my mistake, I know)

I feel like maybe Arianne and Dany May have a squabble. Not a cringe one like Sansa / Dany in the show. But with reason. Like Arianne might acuse Dany of being a liar: killed quentyn and calls fAegon an impostor etc etc

Is it me or is it fAegon is likely having his own "The Bachelors" Show. His currently the most important single guy in the continent right now and alot of major players would probably want to push their daughters to him. Like example we got: 1) Arianne Martel - heir to Dorn 2) Sansa Stark - the last known key to the North and even possibly the next lady of the Vale 3) Shireen Baratheon - by the right of his father making her the heir to the throne. 4) Margery Tyrell - this is nit picky. But their are possibly that Tommen will die eventually. 5) Cercie - Yes she's an old cuch. But she's still balls to the wall in love of the concept of an silver haired prince. Imagine seeing Young Griff for the first time.

Ah Book!Sand Snakes are a painful reminder of my disappointment when I learned we wouldn't have Arianne in season 5. At that point I was like "oooh that's not good, they're removing some of the best stuff" and BOY was I not surprised to see how season 5 unfolded lol (aka I ragequit by episode 2 or 3). Series Onlies have been robbed of the Dornish plot, which gives us some amazing characterisation and character development (the "chapter should be analysed as a proper piece of literature" type of amazing).

I'm interested to see where the Alleras/Sarella plotline will lead. I also wonder if Doran is apart of Sarellas scheme there.

Another factor that could drive the Martells to support Aegon Blackfyre - Nymeria’s mother is one of the nobles of Volantis living behind the black walls. Guess who Dany is going to burn. I think Arch will be killed and Drink will be the only one to survive and tell Doran what happened to Quentyn, of course he’ll tell his own warped anti-Dany version of events.

I know the vid is old as hell but i appreciate the long form vids. I work 9-10 hours at night and i need the company lol. Thanks guys

I’ve never pictured Dorne as a desert of Dune like the Sahara. I picture Dorne like southern Spain arid and rocky or like the Great Basin Desert of Nevada or the Mojave Desert of New Mexico. Those areas are rich in mineral resources like iron in the rocks and coal under the bedrock and they support multitudes of life but you have to be hard to live there.

The most interesting thing about Doran to me is that he is introduced to us as the paragon of patience, waiting until his plans are rotten so to speak before realizing he has waited too long. And even after everyone has told him to move he doesn't. He has all his hopes on Quentyn yet I have no doubt that when Faegon reveals himself and Quentyn turns up dead this will finally be his moment, and he will act, out of emotion if nothing else. Yet this absurdly lethargic character will be too hasty when you consider that if he had simply just waited for Dany to show up and back her all his plans would have worked out. It will be Yet another human heart in conflict with itself moment as Doran realizes that even he, patience incarnate was no patient enough for his plans to work out. I even imagine this little monologue at the end of the book where he is taking to someone about how he fooled himself into thinking his time had come and now the innocents of Dorne will suffer for his impatience as Dany essentially punishes Dorne for its betrayal in supporting the mummers dragon. This moment to me I can feel will be overlooked even though it hasn't happened yet because it's more subtle but this is no different than Jaime losing his hand, Cersei losing her beauty, Arya losing her sight... Doran losing his patience. Yet no less impactful to the heart of the character.

The ripe blood oranges gave me strong Fig Tree/Sylvia Plath vibes. I think it's symbolic of how Doran has waited for so long for revenge, all his plans have failed one by one, and he is running out of time.

You guys made me wonder if show Sansa’s attitude towards dany , will be similar to how Arianne’s attitude will be towards dany in TWOW 🤔

I have to wonder how Doran thinks either of Quentin or Arienne’s quests will work out. Why put both his children in such risk with so many foiled plots by Illyrio over the years?

Obama😆! The Sand Presidents. Obara's tale of when Oberyn came for her is one of my favorite snippets of dialogue. When Oberyn says "See, I told you she was mine" is such a great line. George gave us a very dynamic and impactful introduction to Oberyn, then continues to build on his character posthumously.

An onyx dragon piece is George saying Faegon is a black fire. Onyx is black, so Arriane gets a black dragon in her palm.

56 minutes?? On Rhoynar badassery? Inject this straight into my veins.

There are interesting similarities between Doran + Oberyn and Tyrion + Jaime to be had, Doran and Tyrion are the scheming ones often overlooked for their contributions by society that values physical prowess, attractiveness, and sexual vigor (even if Jaime is supposed to be chaste, he represents "every maidens fantasy" of what a man should be). One is the head, the other the hand/brawn. The major difference, however, is that Tyrion is more ready to act on his schemes than Doran. Makes me want to compare where I think their stories are going, especially since Tyrion starts off interacting with a (very likely) black dragon--fAegon--but ends up with a red dragon--Dany whereas Doran starts off treating with a red dragon--Visyris and Dany--but looks to be joining with a black dragon--fAegon. I also like the symbolism of Doran pressing the black dragon into Arianne's palm: he's pressing her to support a black dragon in fAegon, and we'll have to see how that goes for them. Unlike Tyrion, Arianne is not strategic with her dragon.

This was a fun reminder of how much I love the threads of the Dornish story in the books!

Arianne is an Amethyst Empress archetype: she perceived herself as disinherited even though she was the heir. I don't see her wanting to rule the seven kingdoms, though. Much as she's ambitious, her ambition is ruling Dorne, which is her birthright. I could see her making a deal with fAegon to secure her position as heir of Dorne, but I doubt that will be necessary since she seems to be acting as Doran's heir right now. They seem to have come to an agreement about her position. I tend to think her resentment of Quentyn as "king of Westeros" is a holdover of her resentment due to perceiving him as usurping her role as heir to Dorne. "First he was going to replace me as heir to Dorne, and now he gets to be KING of Westeros where he'll still have power over me? That's BS." So much of it is about him being younger but having power OVER her. At least that's how it reads to me; I could very well be wrong about her relationship with fAegon, though I hope not. I'm not a huge fan of Arianne/fAegon and will be annoyed if Martin goes that direction since I do feel like by the end of ADWD, she's learned her lesson about brooding pretty boys.

56 minutes? Damn! Great job guys.

How has this become my favorite series on RU-vid? Keep it up lads!

i like to watch these types of videos to delude myself into thinking winds of winter is going to be released

I am absolutely LOVING this barrage of content from LmL and Quinn. You guys are the best! The quality is top-notch, especially considering the super speed with which these videos are coming out.

As a Mexican, I relate so much to the Dornish and Rhoynar culture. A lot of people think it parallels to the Middle East,but I disagree. Dornish people are described much like meso-Mexicans, the foods are almost identical, the landscape, we even have a snake on our flag. Dorne is such an interesting storyline and I can’t wait to see to see Dorans plan unfold. Unbowed, Unbent, and Unbroken.

Glass candles. How these play into future plot lines is super interesting to me

Favorite video because I like Dorn a lot. Very resilient kingdom and always a threat. It gonna be interesting to see what becomes of Dorn and the Martell's because I see them getting hit hard with tragedy. It already started with Quentyn.

I think Aegon came up to Storms End and smashed the remainder of the Tyrell host left there to keep the castle under siege, and then acted like they were fighting for Stannis. Pretty believable if you just killed his enemies and defended his home. Only to take charge the moment the castle opened its gates

Thank you for acknowledging that what the show did to Dorne, and the Sand Snakes especially, was egregious and disgusting

Almost 1h of of winds of winter predictions by you guys? I couldn't have hoped for more. I read all the books again and tried to read between the lines like you but couldn't grasp half of what you can foresee in the words, that's what is so interesting in your videos. Kuddos, I love your channels and I'm so hyped for TWOW. Keep up the good work.

This is all heading to a tragic end. Despite all his talk about protecting the children and the innocent people of Dorne, those people will suffer for his ill-conceived plan of vengeance. Doran is not as smart as he thinks he is.

Darkstar was probably the most interesting character in A Feast for Crows

How I only discovered this channel a month ago still baffles me to no end

Rhoynar. Rhoynar. Rhoynar on the river.

I truly cant wait to hear you guys talk about Euron! I have kept up with this series so far and im really enjoying it. Good work fellas.

give us the long videos yes ❤️

I was waiting ! Thank for lighting my quarantine. Life in Italy right now is a prison but more time for asoiaf!

You guys are killing me with these. So good...

I never picked up on that "Blood Orange" analogy, but its fantastic. Gods, what great writing from GRRM. First video of this series I've watched and its great! I love the quote from TWOIAF that compare Dorne to the North, as you pointed out the Wildlings and Iron Islands. I really think Dore and the North breeds the same type of person, in just totally different contexts. There is even the alter religion in both with the Orphans and the Old Gods, albeit it is a minority in the former, and the majority in the latter. Cool stuff, bud.

Doran is much more Dornish in his ways than Oberyn ever was. Oberyn is the unrealistic, mummer's viper, full of posture and vengence, giving a performance as a distraction. Doran is the real snake in the grass, the one you may not perceive or give it much credit because it is relatively small in size with seemingly no poison in its fangs. The one that is always scheming in the shadows, waiting patiently for the right moment to strike.

I agree with you about the toughness of people in some areas LmL. I've always thought The North - Wildlings included - The Iron Islands and The Dornish would make a great alliance. I've totally got that bookmarked for a random fanfic story if I ever get around to playing in the ASOIAF/GoT universe. Great discussion gents; loving this series.

Love the video guys. It’s a nice easy watch that doesn’t distract me too much whilst I’m “working” from home... The thing I love about these videos is how nicely paced they are and it’s not easy to get lost and fall behind whilst multitasking unlike a lot of other RU-vidrs’ ASoIaF videos which is throwing so much information down your throat and talking so quickly

them apologizing for an hour long video while i've been binging lml for days straight :o

Great sound effects!!! Spooky. Thanks for unraveling the Dornish plot with all the characters. It is a bit confusing.

I think you guys are under estimating one of the sand snakes, Elia sand, she's going to end up, seducing or at least sleeping with fAegon, potentially screwing everything up for Arianne. She's closer to his age than Arianne is, plus Why else introduce another character this late in the game, another character who likes seducing men she's not supposed to. Though, she may have just been going after feathers to gain information, which would makes her that much more dangerous & conniving. Definitely one to keep an eye on !

The Tyrell army is moving to take Storm's End, and we can safely presume that they'll do so just as well as they did during Robert's rebellion. :-P

Guys this series is great, I'll be sad when it's over.

Reach armies and Storm's End is the best love story in Westeros

my dinner was getting cold waiting for this video

Threre have been a lot of WoW videos this week, maybe they know something we don't 👀

Man o Man.... Thanks for this video so much !!! I love Doran and Dornish Plot. Your observations were correct. Dornish Plot has some of the finest prose written in the series. I think it is a Tragedy of Doran that his pieces don't think like him. Arianne needs her Dad's way of closely examining and reading the situation to protect herself from stepping in bad places. I don't see hope for Dorne... But the genius of Martin's way of Storytelling is that somehow.... Some part of Dorne's Soul will be saved because of Doran's Care up till now in the Story. But, I don't know how. Darkstar will face Ser Balon Swann, Areo Hotah, and Obara. Areo might die protecting Ser Balon whilst Obara turns sides to Camp Darkstar and both go rogue and join Euron, I wonder. Even Lady Nym and Tyene who are so self assured may find King's Landing a hostile setting with difficulty to protect themselves. I see Nym allying with Varys. Arianne with Young Griff, Nym with Varys. So, Dorne is ripe to fall to Black Dragon, Mummer's Dragon while Bran, Bloodraven, and Littlefinger independently work towards defeating them along with Queen Daenerys. Doran might not live to see the Final Outcome of all his lifelong austerity. I love this Story !! ☺️👌✨✨

I was hesitant to subscribe to this channel but you guys are knowledgeable and intellectual about what your talking about. I'm very impressed with your theories. Subscribed !!

You guys have a much different take on Doran than the Order of the Greenhand!

i live in a high desert and we do have grass here - i know Dorne is a sandy desert also, but there’s definitely many kinds of desert! i agree that the show didn’t go as hard as they could have but as a desert-lover i always wanna talk about the variance in the biome lmao

It was really good to see Quinn enjoying Dorne

I remember back when I heard Arianne was heading to Aegon, I thought she would sleep with Jon Con, unknowingly get Grey Scale, and then be wed to Aegon. But now, years later, I’m more confident that Aegon, whether he is a Blackfyre, or a true Targaryen, I believe he is one of the three dragons, along with Dany and Jon.

Faegon might reject marrying Arianne to save his hand for Daenerys

Doran evokes the yellow toad of Dorne from the Conquest

Maybe this will be the year haha great work as always guys

Great collaboration guys. I love it. The sky may be falling, but it ain't so bad with these to look forward to!

Arianne as well as the Snakes, with Doran being the puppet-master are the mirror to Tywin and his handling of his brood

*Prince consort. He can't be called King cause the throne is hers. Also wait until she finds out Faegon isn't the heir either, it's Jon. 🤣🤣🤣

This is favorite one yet! Keep it up fellas

The best Tag Team since Undertaker and Kane: Quinn & LmL

Quinn is back on his game !!!! Nice. Great vid thankyou !!! Lovin' it! I'm about to partreon to both of you !!Next pay it's done !!!!

Great video, great theories, but you didn't even mention that someone betrayed Arianne in her plot to crown Myrcella. I was eager to see what you had to say about that, because I think this betrayer is gonna come back to haunt her, if not to just press her into some kind of paranoia...

I thought you were gonna talk about it but since you didn't I'll let the question open for the whole Internet: What do you think is little Elia Sand up to? You know, the 14 year old who seems as reckless as her dad and is now with Arianne in her way to fAegon and is flirting with the ravens guy? Is she working on her own? Is she working in behalf of her older sisters? Or is Ellaria Sand planning something? To me she's a very suspicious wild card there... Great video anyway!

Dark...mysterious....mood music...AWW, PUPPY!!...back to dark....mysterious XD

One thought I had... the Doran coat of arms or whatever - it's a spear PIERCING the sun. Sounds like something you'd do if you wanted to bring on the long night... or permanent darkness?

Really appreciate this look at the many faceted (much more so than I recalled) Dornish plotlines!

Between you and Quinn, I am having a great time listening to new content every day!

The guy on the right is great. You totally get which parts of the books are pure epic and can articulate it perfectly. Guy on left is still cool

D&D was the worst thing to happen to Dorne since the yellow toad 🐸 😂

One big key difference between the books and the TV Series is definatly Dorne in which book Doran is cooking his revenge against the Lannisters while in TV Series he was portrayed as the shittiest leader who made peace with the Lannisters

I think Doran has something up his sleeve that no one has predicted. I just can't see any of the moves he's making overtly paying off in a significant way. Aleras, however, is another story.

Awesome topic and video ty! When LML introduced the sand snakes I got Kill Bill vibes lol

Needing more dual content from you two

Loving the 23 days of WOW! Thanks for exposing me to Quinn's channel. Working through his playlist - Dune too! I tried to make my first livestream comment yesterday - didn't work - but basically happy about this series & asking opinion about the recent Color Out of Space movie.

I think they have to get back, they’re the only ones that can remember the Dornish misAdventure

Weird loop hole... How did Jon Connigton not question Varys as to why he didn't go out his way to help Rhaegar when he planned the great tourney to overthrow his father and yet he went out his way to save his son 🤔 FAegon for real, guys.

Oh, Arianne s fate is already set in stone. The message WILL say "Dragon". The moment she started to think about "King Quentyn" her inferiory complex was on full display. She even put her own spin on Dany s role on Viserys death. The ironic thing is not only that Quentyn never wanted to be king, he is fucking DEAD and Arianne is still plotting against him. When Dany, slayer of lies, slays the mummer s dragon... Arianne is gonna be right next to him.

That was just excellent, thank you.

I really think Arianne was sent on a fool's errand.

Great show guys! Thanks🏆

I thoroughly enjoyed this one! Thanks, guys☺

It's videos like these that are pushing me more and more to read the books. And treat the HBO show, as much as I like it, as an alternate timeline. The books are the prime timeline of events. With that I've made my peace with the show (more or less, Season 8 is bitter still in my mouth, stunning visuals aside). So yeah, that's my two cents.

So many layers to this facet of the tapestry. Obviously Doran is playing 4D chess and I can't wait to read about his endgame.

I think that Darkstar is actually in on the plot with Doran, and that Balon Swann and any other Kingslanders will die... the wording around what actually happened in the incident with Myrcella is unclear (as it should be) and Darkstar was blamed for her injury and was able to flee, and he conveniently retreats to a well-defended place. Doran says "we dare not defy Kings Landing openly" but that just means he has to be sneaky, and Obara (who wants bloody revenge) taking Balon Swann et al on a wild goose chase for Darkstar is a perfect way to whittle them down

You guys are killing it!

Hi LML (and Quinn!) I've been a fan of Quinn's work for some time, and have now subbed to Your channel. Thank's for all Your hard work Guy's..oh, and Greeting's from Scotland too! Slange!

Seen this one twice, just leaving a comment for the Algorithm Gods. FIRE AND BLOOD! ;}

Lemons! .....is there a red door around there? THAT is why she was supposed to go south to go north.

This series is really great you guys! 😊

That is the cutes puppy! Love you predictions

i was waiting all day for this

Quinn just hold the puppy during the entire video. Hell, just post a video of your puppy playing for 10 minutes. I'd watch it.

Love this series but this episode has been hands down my favorite and Dorne is my least favorite kingdom but you guys hyped it up so much it might be my second favorite now after the north of course lol... speaking of the north I know it’s been speculated to death but is this series going to go North and to the Wall? I’d love to hear some interesting takes for TWOW from that area and the river lands as well!!!