Plus she made her intentions to obvious like. Getting it on with Joffrey and not long after he dies, got with Tommen completely making it clear to Cersei that this is all a Tyrell powerplay. Which backed Cersei to a corner prompting her the reinstate the Faith Militant, making it worst not just for Margery but for her and everyone else.
@@silentecho92able Honestly, Margaery was still about to win the day she died. From her pov, Cersei was powerless and driven into a corner, about to be sentenced. No one alive, not even the likes of Varys could have predicted a nuclear bomb or that anyone, even Cersei would be that insane to do it.
@@AniSwiftTVRecapsNo is not hinted at all , is just some weirdos without any friends în the comment sections who belive that all interactions betwen people are based on sex ,not that they know anything about sex either Oh he is sharing the room with her cousins , there must be a orgy there 🤮🤮🤮
@@billcipherproductions1789 its said that she sleeps with her cousins and other female friends every night, and they love to play the kissing game with each other, she carries her ladies everywhere which some people comment on that its weird for her age so one may be her lover. and one of margery ladies literally slept with cersie and found no issue with it
@@AniSwiftTVRecaps so she's a teen in a medieval fantasy. And much like historical female nobles that this is normal. So I disagree on her being a lesbian.
Margaerys weakness is probably that she might become the mask she wears after a while. That's not ideal long term, especially if it erodes her natural kindness and clever qualities. But, since she would need a husband as queen, if she married a husband who was perceptive, kind and bright, who she could feel free to show her honest self to, I could see them as a power couple and a true return to the days of Jaeherys and Alyssane. A lot of fans like matching her with Robb Stark for this purpose I've noticed, which isn't without merit. Someone with that kind of natural intuition, a mix of firm honour and kindness, whose strengths she could augment with her own, whose weaknesses she could cover for with her own canny mind. Using Robb as an example again here, I feel she would have seen right through the Red Wedding and possibly saved his life as a result; everyone else around him was eager and relieved at the Freys being willing to talk. Robb has many great qualities but as a weakness, is quite trusting and perhaps even naive, like his father; and Margaery could cover for that. I also think an honourable, genuinely chivalrous match would be someone she could feel comfortable revealing her true self to; essential for her own mental health and happiness down the line. Essentially she would make a great queen, but for her king she would need a man she can't truly manipulate, but also someone she wouldn't even want to. Strengths that would play off one another and weaknesses they could each counter, you'd have a romantic royal match for the ages.
I know it's crazy but I think she would have been really good with tommen. I think GRRM have a thing with making the third kid really nice/ nicer. Tommen and dayron come to mind but I don't know if that's just from the show.
Honestly, I don't think Margaery would have any problems manipulating Robb. There aren't many men in her relative age range that would be able to resist her charms and seduction. And, tbh, I doubt Margaery would WANT to be with someone who would see through her. Whatever else is true, Margaery intended to be the true power in the Red Keep; she cannot be that if she marries a King who is competent enough to keep up with her and resist her manipulations. So, in that regard, Robb might be a good match because he'd be competent in areas Margaery is not, while Margaery would still have little problems in subjugating Robb to her will.
@@perrycarters3113 Perhaps. But its healthy to have someone you can let your walls down with. Her grandmother won't be around forever. And my point was more that a husband that does appreciate her for who she is, including her drive for power and still is OK with that, would be a good thing; not someone who will stop her goals. Essentially, someone who she doesn't have to play the game against 24-7. But if she's happy being the manipulator to everyone around her, that's fine. I just feel like a king who has the attitude of 'I know exactly what you're doing, and I really don't mind to be honest because you're better than me at this' wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for her, especially if he isn't a natural ruler himself like she is. So in other words, a match who is in on the game and OK with it. Not a Tommen, who, nice boy that he was, was far too weak when she needed him to be strong.
Margery's greatest weakness was Olenna's strength; experience, or rather in Margery's case, a lack thereof. It's why when they were together, they were so formidable. Now that's not to say that Margery was completely helpless without Olenna, as she became formidable in her own right as time went on, but her lack of experience is what led to her underestimating some of the more dangerous players such as Cersei, though to be fair, Cersei is an unpredictable maelstrom of madness.
To be fair it's hard to say Margaery even underestimated Cersei. Margaery had Cersei dead to rights but Cersei found a silver bullet. It's like saying you underestimated your chess opponet because they found a nuke under the table that had been hidden there 20 years ago
Here’s a real wild card: Davos. Utterly loyal, an effective diplomat, increasingly well-read, and has the common touch (in one hand, at least). You couldn’t ask for a better consort for the Mannis.
The most dangerous/effective combination I could think of is Lyanna Mormont as Queen with Olenna Tyrell as her regent. Lyanna saw through empty platitudes but had the patience to listen to rational arguments from Ser Davos. Given her young age, it would be like a female version of Jaehaerys I, necessitating a strong (female) regent to keep the men in line and protect Lyanna from would-be suitors with ambitions to usurp the throne from Lyanna.
lyanna "saw through platitudes" because she wasnt interested in anything besides being loud and aggressive for no good reason and be irrational. she planned on leaving jon and sansa to die moments before davos stepped in, purely to save herself, which you left out. lyanna would be a terrible queen because she's a terrible everything else. same thing with Olenna. ok shes snarky. but she never did anything remotely intelligent or reasonable her entire life. everything she did backfired or went badly in some way.
Margery has one major weakness in the books, she underestimated Cercie's foolish cruelty. Margery assumed that everyone else had at least a sliver of wit, or at least basic self preservation.
Margaery, imo, was probably the best possible monarch option on the show (and I say this as a Mannis fan). She had the correct mixture of cunning and compassion, and was popular with BOTH the nobility and commonfolk. She would've actually been able to reform the realm, gradually and peacefully, because she could've convinced people to go along with it (charisma is her greatest power). Dany was determined to break the system by force and build up a new one (with herself as quasi-worshipped supreme leader, lol). Margaery was a far more serious reform player because she actually knew how to play the game. politically. Not surprising to see the difference, really... Dany was basically raised by brash, entitled, Viserys. Margaery was toutered by the shrewd political genius Olenna Tyrell. None of the other women were better groomed for the role of running the realm (as power behind the throne or otherwise). Her only mistake was underestimating just how batsh*t crazy Cersei was (nobody would've reasonably expected her to flip the game board in rage like THAT, and if the writing were better that move would've had major consequences).
I think Yara’s biggest weakness would be similar to Robert’s: I don’t think she’d be as interested in ruling as the others. Definitely would have less patience for how complex the interpersonal politics and games people play would get. She’s more of a warrior in general.
Yes ,this kind of people are better at serving under a ruler than being the rulers themselves, especially because they dont seem good at handeling money
I think in the books she's at least pretty interested and has a vision for the future of the Iron Islands that would keep her busy for at least a while.
Margaery's greatest weakness... I can't say this with a strong sense of certainty, but I think it might be her aversion to bloodshed. She grew her image as a beautiful golden rose well, her cult of personality would probably outshine Trump were she to be in our world. But somewhere along the way, she seemed to miss the fact that roses have thorns, and they have them for a reason. We do not see her, at any point in the show, partake in a scheme that involves the taking of a life, or lives, for ANY reason. Multiple times throughout the show Cersei makes not-so-veiled threats against Margaery; Margaery is not stupid, she knows Cersei is gunning for her, she has AMPLE time to plan an assassination, so the only reason she wouldn't, is because she doesn't want to, that might be out of a sense of love for Tommen, because Tommen's innocent little heart breaks at Margaery's death, so much so he immediately joins her in meeting the Stranger without a second thought, Gods only know what would've happened had Cersei bit it instead. Hell, she seemed genuinely shocked in the scene where Olenna “confesses” to orchestrating the Purple Wedding, and has to have Olenna explain why she did it, even though it's patently obvious to anybody with a modicum of intelligence. This reticence to shed blood is ultimately what costs her in the long run, as having Cersei assassinated, ideally once she sends Jaime to Dorne, would be the smartest move any player could have made at any point in the whole Game, and would have made her the uncontested Queen in Westeros before Dany shows up.
Oh she definitely was willing to commit to bloodshed, she just had to be pushed to it. She was actively in on the HS' plan to sentence Cersei in her trial - what do you think would be the punishment for regicide of king Robert? Margaery was 100% aiming for Cersei's demise there, she just waited too long. She was also more than willing to let Tyrion be executed for the murder of Joffrey, when she alone knew the truth.
Margaery has her claws in Joffrey. She knows how to manipulate him- Good. I wish *you* knew how to manipulate him. -Tywin ‘the King who wore no crown’ Lannister Dany’s flaw is wanting to break the wheel. That would make working with the nobles much harder. And merely burning them for not cooperating will inspire more fear and resentment with their successors whether blood related or not. She needs to learn how to compromise if she really wants change, use her charisma and negotiation skills to win more support before starting to do what she wants. She’d make a fine ruler but may be betrayed easily and lose the throne if she is not careful. Olenna Tyrell was a good advisor but telling her to ignore clever men is a massive mistake. Never disregard the clever lest you fall to them. She needs to be smarter or have the wisdom to know when to follow good advice and ignore bad advice, not people per sé.
‘A wise ruler listens to their advisers, and heeds their wisdom until they come of age, and the wisest rulers continue to listen to them long afterwards.’
So: we have a man who starved himself to death, a man who is betrayed by his own brother, and a man who thinks winning and ruling are the same thing. What do they all lack? …Wisdom. *Yes.*
You see the title of the video made me think this was like the little finger video. You can imagine my disappointment that this was not that for the tyrells
Hey Adam, Liam here (the usual voice) I'm sorry you felt honey dicked by the thumbnail and title. We've got to get our Drogo series going ASAP and have a couple of other vids in the pipeline, but after they're sorted we will make "A Realm under Margery" video just for you 😊
Margery's big advantage is that she has Olenna behind her. If Renly had kept his ego in check, he probably would have inherited the throne from Stannis and he and Margery would have been unstoppable. Asha is open to marriage and family, she just doesn't want to play the traditional role of baby maker and arm candy. Her and Oberyn and Ellaria would have made the ultimate power polycule.
@17:07 Completely fair point regarding underestimating Cersei (or I guess overestimating? Basically she didn't anticipate that Cersei would be stupid enough to reestablish the Faith Militant, thereby plunging the realm into chaos and putting Cersei at significant risk (as we see when they arrest Cersei,) because why would Margaery have expected that when it's such a terrible idea!) But I don't think Margaery ever had any illusions about what Joffrey was, considering her teacher was Olenna herself. This was something the show did well: when Margaery and Joffrey spend time with each other, we see her play him like a fiddle. She knows that she can't charm Joffrey like she would a regular person because Joffrey's a maniac, so she fawns over his crossbow and is like "ooooo being able to pull a lever on the crossbow here and someone dies over there, how fascinating" and Joffrey is like "OOOOO, BONER!"
Damn not quite early enough to be first. As for Margaery's weakness it's hard to think of anything better then underestimating Cersei but even then she didn't really underestimate Cersei. She had Cersei dead to rights but Cersei found a silver bullet that no one could have seen coming
lyanna did and said nothing impressive. she said inane ridiculous nonsense in a confident loud way and somehow that tricked people into thinking she's "badass"
I enjoy your videos, but would just like to put out there that seeing a title and thumbnail purely focused on Margaery as a topic and then giving her 2 minutes of the upload was a bit disappointing - if it had been titled "Who would be the best Queen of Westeros?" or something I would have watched it with the right expectations and probably enjoyed it more as a result. As it is I spent the second half of the video watching the timer tick down wondering when Margaery would be covered, and the last part of it wondering if she was going to make it in at all.
People who think Dany is going to be a villain in the books hasn't actually absorbed the themes of the books very well. The point is that everyone is grey. This isn't LOTR. & All of her foreshadowing hints that she'll have to sacrifice herself in the war against the others.
Imo show Margaery had shades of Princess Diana. She just emirated charisma, was public with her generosity, the common people loved her. And when she became a threat to the queen, she was offed rather violently.
Margery Tyrell biggest weakness is that she believes that everyone is genuine in their love for her. This means ahe couldn't see Cersei and Joffrey willingness to harm and kill her.
Lmao what? Did you even watch the show cause what you just said is the exact opposite of Margaery. She literally saw through everyone, even the HS, and adjusted accordingly. She loathed Joffrey but manipulated him flawlessly.
Margaery’s weakness is she’s just a pawn in GOT. The real queen if she happens to become a queen is Olenna Tyrell as she’s the one that schemes for House Tyrell.
Well, this'll be interesting. Time to bump things down a bit so there's no spoilers. Ok, not entirely sure I'd agree with Dany. I'll need to wait and see who's next before I say whether I agree with her being on the list or not, but I just don't see Dany as making a good queen in general, even if she ends up with a good council. She'll be fine, sure, but good, I'll hold off on that. I won't say that I don't understand why she's like that, but she's just not ready as far as I'd say. Wonder what Dany's tax policy is (can't help it). Better than Cersei? Low bar. Lyanna Mormont... I mean, I guess with the competition she's got, yeah, sure. I wouldn't say she's queen material yet, but she's definitely on the right track to become one. Thanks for reminding me of that damned episode by the way. My least favorite episode in all of existence, even with Lyanna killing a giant wight. But yeah, she's still too young for me to say she definitely is. It helps that she's got a small place to handle and she's got good advisers. Yara/Asha Greyjoy... yeah, I see it. She's pretty good, even if she's an Iron Islander. Oh, are my biases showing? Whoops. Jokes aside, there is no competition on the Iron Islands for her. And no, you'd better not stop bagging on Balon. Olenna is a yes from me. She does have a few issues here and there, but overall, yep, she's one of the best. Nothing to say here, you covered it perfectly. I think I can guess who number one is. It's Marge isn't it? Yep, got it. Honestly, I'd give Marge the edge over Olenna purely down to the fact that she's got the time to be patient compared to Olenna and there's the fact that she can completely earn the love of everyone easily unlike Olenna (not saying Olenna can't get love, just that she gives no fucks at this point to get everyone's love). As for Marge's biggest flaw... hmm, I'd say her complacency when she became queen. When she was trying to become queen, she was sharp, careful, and calculating, not really missing a step and only losing Renly because shadow baby. After she became Tommen's queen (in the show since that's what we're focused on), she was just taking her time in getting rid of Cersei. That was her being complacent and too relaxed while she was on the throne. It's almost like after she got her thing, she stopped being worried about what might come her way and it bit her in the ass. That's the best I can come up with. Great stuff as usual.
Good list, as always. But I think an honourable mention needs to go to Missandei. True, we never see her actually leading anyone, but I think she has a lot of qualities that would make her a good queen. Her origins as a slave would mean that she'd be well aware of the plights of many peoples, and would work to help them. She's diplomatic and understands the value of ensuring good relations with people, as she basically serves as both a diplomat to Dany and as a translator to her former masters. Her prior experience as an aide to the slave-masters of Astapor likely meant that she had a front-row seat to the administration of the city, so she can probably claim at least some knowledge in that field. And she even served in a quasi leader capacity alongside Grey Worm during Dany's absence from Meereen. I think she's definitely an under-the-radar contender for this role 😊
The Queen that never was. Margaery was always my pick for ruler of the Seven Kingdoms. She was cunning and wanted power, of course, but she was good for the small folk. Whether it was just to curry favor with them or whether it was genuine, it honestly doesn't matter. She was good for the realm. One of the few rulers in ASOIAF that was ambitious without looking to step on the heads of innocents on her way up. Also one of the few characters better adapted than she was written in the books in my opinion.
Much as I respect the arguments this is a list I disagree with a lot. Although I appreciate we have a paucity of riches here. To be brief: Dany is a good conqueror but lacks the patience to compromise and be a good queen. She also has a huge sense of entitlement and has seemed to buy into her own hype. A better choice than Cersei but that is a subterranean bar. Lyanna…… she has one or two cool enough moments but frankly her abrasive personality, youth and limited experience all mean she will not be able to make allies or be taken seriously. Give her 20 years to grow up maybe but not yet. Yara might do ok and is a solid naval commander but again in the context of the 7 kingdoms there is a lot of baggage. I don’t hate this pick. But for Margery and Olenna, well I hate to say it but they would do well. It pains me to say this as I cannot stand Olenna on screen, but she would be the most capable I think. Margery is the perfect consort to a good king and as a queen regnant I think she is a very solid choice. Sadly outside these ladies we have maybe 4 candidates to fill out a list. Cersei is an obvious no. Elyria Sand murdered too many people in the dumbest plot ever to be a serious candidate. And that leaves us with the 2 main Stark Ladies. Catelyn is likely to be pretty effective except for when her family is threatened. Then she makes some rash choices that put people in danger. She is however an excellent choice of Queen Consort. Than there is Sansa. As if current in the book she has shed some naïveté and is learning but all she really has is potential. In terms of proven acumen she lacks even the paltry achievements of Lyanna Mormont. If I am honest I think I would get to a top three list at best based on the queens we get (though my good kings list is similarly very short and tops at 4 names at best). Love the vid but I am not convinced.
Margery would’ve made an excellent queen, she’s honestly similar to various excellent queens in history and knew how to play the game. In the show she just got unlucky. She got gunpowder plotted successfully.
yeah dany 100% could of been a great queen if all of those closest didn't die or be her nephew... like honestly if jon wasn't her nephew she probably wouldn't have snapped as hilarious as that might sound. I think she had so much on her mind during the entire fall out within a whole week that loosing her advisor/best friend and then feeling like she lost her lover cause jon and her were defiantly looking at each other like "Wtf". the biggest nail was her best friend shouting Dracaris as her last words... like that was just screaming at her to burn it all.
What if the Freys Discovered and Killed Arya During the Red Wedding? Arya was extremely lucky that no one was able to discover her when the Freys were busy slaughtering Stark soldiers, but if one of the Freys or Bolton soldiers discovered her by accident, she would have died in that tragic event.
I doubt Dany would make a great ruler for Westeros. She left the east in tatters. Countries she "saved" wound up just enslaving the masters and becoming slave owners themselves. She's left civil war in her wake. She fails to take into account cultures and the need for small changes. In the books she pretty much ignores Selmy's advice. She gets angry when she's not worshipped as some sort of hero. I just don't see her as a good leader. I see the possibility in her, but she needs to mature, and I'm not certain she'll mature in the way readers would want. I know Dany lovers don't want to hear that. She has a terrific story, but I disagree with Tyrion: A great story does not make for a great ruler.
Great Video! I must admit I m so proud of you guys for not having Sansa Stark anywhere on this list! She has her fans but she simply isn't actually a good queen. In the books she is still very much a child, used as a pawn by Littlefinger (with the potential to make her own moves soon but not really there yet). In the show characters keep saying that she is a good ruler and "the smartest women" they have ever met, yet we never see any of that. Most of her time in power is spent bickering and making truly retarded military and political decisions/signing off on them. (If examples are needed I can add them). This is due to the poor writing of the latter seasons and the fact that smart characters can only be as smart as the person writing them. That's why all of the intelligence based characters feel so far off the mark from season 5 onwards
I would’ve love her to be the queen , king’s landing was def her environment, the issue is her presence was too big for Cersei , it clearly made her jealous, her being so generous, her clothing choices , the way she was throwing insults at Cersei but in a « kind way » was hurting Cersei’s ago and was constantly reminding her how evil she was and how old she was getting. She should’ve kept it quiet like Sansa did and wait for the good occasion to take over the throne.
Nope not if goes route of ancestors, which most do seems trend. The hightowers crossed into tyrells not dany gen targ. Then the septs and maesters. Magic gatekeepers which is ironic cuz there were magic users no dragons. Hypocritical mages who control religion, no thank you. On flip side margery is a lil more removed
Agree that Lyanna is great, but slaying the giant in s8 episode 3 was BS. It just spontaneously decides to pick Lyanna up and hold her to his face when it hadn't done that to anyone else? Nah man
Remembering that a Tyrant need not be Tyrannical and a good ruler need not be a good person. Dany did have the drive and the desire to be queen; and unlike her brother she had a chance to see what it really took to BE a strong ruler among the Dothraki and in Meereen. That said, she was still tainted by her suppositions of her birthright and how others should regard her and Pride is a difficult trait to overcome.
Is Margery still alive in the books, if so hopefully she will play the game better. Also Dani is still alive in the books i imagine so hopefully Martin will write there endings better than the shows
Don’t think mags would be a good queen i think the act would slip and people would see who she really is. I think she has a dark side to her and not as bad as Jamie’s hit pice but still think she would turn absolute power corrupts.
I know i would love to have Margaery as my queen instead of any other from this list. For me, she is capable and stable for me as a part of the realm to feel cool with her in power 😊
Margery is better suited to be the power behind the throne and the public face of the king, and you forgot to at least say why sansa would be last place she did get crowned queen of the north well show at least
I think underestimating Cersei was her biggest mistake. She played, but she didn't imagine that cersei would actually blow the entire sept along with everyone else. Tommen wouldn't do a thing because he is jus a boy, so she could not count with Tommen there specially against his own mother. But maybe with someone else to make Cersei stop. Perhaps Tywin, he wanted to marry Cersei with a Tyrrel.
Because this is a show only invention, în the books that woudn't work for at least 5 reasons Cersei was dumb as moon boy but D&D were simps of Leana Headey so they give her the place that the Night King should had
Here's a crazy idea: Would Pre-Raven Bran or Rickon Stark be a good 'King of the North' Edit: Maybe a ranking on potential 'King of the North' Ramsay and Balon are obvious last.
What happened to the obligatory Lightning pick who is book only? Cuz I can see Val being a decent Queen of the North. The Free Folk rally around her after Mel burns Fake Mance. Or Arianne Martell being a good Queen, albeit with wise and patient advisors. Or a more wild card, Genna Lannister. Has the gold of the West and Tywin as her Hand, she'd be okay at the very least
I don't think she underestimated her ability to deal with irrational players like Cersei, until Tywin's death her own family were wanting to send her back to Casterly Rock and marry her to Loras, and then her legitimacy as regent was absolutely trashed by the faith via the walk of shame. Tywin's death was unexpected. Until then Mags was ahead of Cersei at every turn and the council was full of Tyrell bannermen. Mags and Tommen would have been the best rulers the realm had yet. Mags and Renly would have been almost as good too.
Margaery and Olenna are both smart enough to understand Margaery should be the face. But, Olenna would certainly be the top advisor. They would likely be in lockstep on any strategy and the realm would be prosperous.
Won't lie, number 3 wasn't on my list of woman who would make great queens. Trying not to spoil so people can watch, but hou guys made a very interesting point
me: "simps are cringe and have no self respect." also me: "muh... muhmuh... MUH QUEEN!!!! 🧎♂🙌" hypocritical? yes. sorry, or ashamed for it? fuck no. *talking about Margaery...
How exactly? All the mens she is acused of sleeping with are also in jail , and there were thousands of men who ask for her relief , and even the high septon is letting her go
@@flavius5722 because the society is patriarchal so she wont be accepted well as a queen, the one time there was almost a queen, the realm literally tore its self apart to stop it (and killed all the dragons)
@@flavius5722 cersei became queen because of bad writing, 0 consequences for the sept explosion. lysa did not rule the vale, lysa was a regent and advisor for robin. bear isle is tiny
Margaery had many of the right qualities. Qualities both Tywin and Varys list as their ideal ruler traits. She is wise, wouldn't spread misery through the land and is backed by a powerful army and fleet. however she is not male, and thus there will always be detractors to her reign as a result, as well as the fact that assuming the Tyrells got the throne by conquest, there'll be people who prefer a family closer to the Targaryens in terms of blood, whom they consider more "rightful". She also is a schemer in that she desired the throne for the sake of gaining power. Not because she genuinely wanted to help her people out of the goodness of her heart, though she knows how to make it seem like she cares.
A big weakness that Margery had was her love for Loras his brother and not being able to fully manipulate Tommen to the point of either removing him (after becoming pregnant or giving birth to a male heir) or play him as olena played mace. Her love for Loras made her lie about his nocturnal activities with other men because that’s the whole reason why she got arrested by the high sparrow. Had she dumped him, there was no way she could have been arrested and olena could have had the ability to remove the sparrow more effectively without risking her two only chips. As for tommen, she was so diplomatic on her approach without telling him straight away that Cersei was using the sparrow to retain to power and when it backfired, failed to convince him that the sparrow was a threat. Even his marriage to tommen could have been a liability because he was a good boy but good boys can’t ruthlessly kill a religious fanatic who is good at manipulating the good intentions of people. So two critical mistakes that Margery made cost her live. I would even say a third one and that one was to play alongside the sparrow once mace and Jaime had marshaled forces on the sept. That level of stupidity was so infuriating that when she died, I was kinda happy because her ploy cost her
I've seen some answers I agree with, but I think Margaery's biggest weakness is she doesn't really have rallying power. When she was trying to get everyone out of the sept, no one listened to her. She cultivates love in every day situations, but no one takes her seriously when she's in a non-love situation.
Not even an honorable mention for Catelyn Stark? Even in the show she was Robb's best councilor. She warned him against every mistake he made. Including and especially trusting the Greyjoys and crossing the Frays. If he'd listened to her more often Robb might have survived the war of five Kings. Catelyn is as politically savvy as any player of the game, and is perhaps the most level-headed member of her faction. And to top it off she is a genuinely compassionate and honorable woman. Qualities that would make her very popular with the small folk. Catelyn on the Iron Throne would be like the second coming of Good Queen Alysane, minus the dragon.
@@agent45625 Actually she would. Catelyn didn't hate Jon simply because she believed he was Ned's bastard. She hated him because Ned raised him alongside her legitimate children, which she viewed as a threat to their claims on Winterfell. Catelyn's own POV chapters from AGOT reveal that she wasn't even surprised Ned had fathered a bastard while on campaign. What shocked and rankled her was that Ned raised Jon in Winterfell, instead of fostering the boy with one of his Bannermen, as many southron lords did with their bastards. Catelyn's AGOT chapters also reveal that she is in fact capable of experiencing sympathy and affection towards bastard children. After meeting King Robert's bastard Maya Stone in the Vale, Catelyn became somewhat fond of her.
@@agent45625 Yeah, Catelyn gets a bad rap over the whole Jon Snow issue. Don't get me wrong, her treatment of Jon was deplorable, but not irrational. I think it's a tall order to ask any woman to raise a child of her husband's infidelity.
