WTF is going on with DX12 and Vulkan? 

Taran*

I did indeed.

w

I think it's Edzel. 1:12 Upper right hand corner?

Someone ate all the pies too.

all that needs to be said about it has been said in this video tbh.

both hardware and software version.

don't put the caboose before the train.

a video about ur moma would be nice too xdxddxdx

And they forgot to mention Mantle as a new API and their games

DirectX 7 was the best!

Nah, Glide-3D! :P

nah directx 0 was the best

Psh, you guys are amateurs. Software rendering is where it's at

I was expecting Glide benchmarks

I was surprised there wasn't a *cough* SKYRIM *cough* somewhere.

When I heard that I saw a "SHOTS FIRED! OHHHHHHHH" image in my head.

I know I'm a year late, but it's not actually Bethesdas fault. (Unlike hundereds of other flaws in their games) It uses the Havok physics engine, and it need to know how large the simulation steps should be every time it is updated, which it is every frame. When people try to run Skyrim in 144hz for example, they usually forget to tell Havok what the target FPS is (a simple ini file tweak), and that causes it to go bananas. Source: Am a programmer who has implemented Havok before, and am also a Skyrim player

Can't you still make the engine lock the physics and game to a fixed timestep regardless of the framerate? I did what may be a naive solution where I updated the Nvidia PhysX world with every game tick, but the game tick wasn't tied to the framerate. It would just not update the game tick until (x) milliseconds passed.

@@Belshazzaresque Seriously the networking was set up that way? YIKES Q_q

well Nvidia cost more. AMD is the best bang for buck

Imouto 9Gagger Exactly

+Frankie Dingleberry Radeon Pro Duo feg!

+Imouto 9Gagger seems like you didn't even read his commebt

+Imouto 9Gagger but amd doesn't have any card that can compete against a 1070 or a 1080, let along Titan XP(the new titan x). AMD and Nvidia are going head on their lower ends which depends again on personal choice on which one to take. In conclusion I agree to what frankie said, LTT is not biased

Welcome to PC gaming for the past 10 years. Shitty console ports done as quickly as possible by people who don't know what they're doing. Luckily, because the current potatoboxes are APU laptops with some logos spraypainted on, this is becoming less common.

Yeah, I do't even play games as much anymore. I just mess around with settings and tweak stuff till I get bored then decide to upgrade again. Next up is Zen for me.

More like, making games is very time consuming and has high skill requirements to deliver even a working product, ergo fucking expensive. I always find it odd how a lot of "gamers" that act like they know anything about games development on the internet like to paint developers like a bunch of money grubbing slackers and or corporate sycophants. Ignoring the fact that despite development costs going up, the shelf price of games have actually gone down over the past decade (if you adjust for inflation). With the primary way of recouping those losses being DLC.. something the community apparently hates, but still buys anyway. The higher the frame rate, the harder it is to maintain stability. And takes time to work out the kinks at those levels. Something that's not always possible when you're working to someone else's timetable, so you make do with the time you've got. Sure some games capped at 30 or 60 still come out broken, but that's just a testament to how complicated the systems that go into games have become. And should not be seen as a reflection of apathy by those within the industry..

Well not exactly Game Devs themselves... but the engine has to support those APIs... and THIS is the reason why we don't have more DX12 and Vulkan games... Maybe even the game devs want to, but the available Engines are not ready for them....

+Rook3v The devs are the ones to blame also. But developers and publishers are two diffrent entities which you merged into one. Publisher makes sure the game is profitable and does marketing and chooses how DLC, micro transactions etc. go. Publishers such as Square enix and EA have a bad habit of fucking over the devs. Forcing the devs to rush a game to meet a time quota etc. Also, the game not selling those 10 million copies so the games are considered failures even though they end up making millions in profit. So publishers end up adding micro transctions and cutting the game itself into DLC packs to squeeze more money out of the buyer. For example BO3 makin ~20 copies in sales, still having guns and skins put into microtransactions only. Or the new Deus Ex. The crappy fps is an excuse why the PC port sucks ass, as it was made by an amateur game company which doesnt have the skill, resources or time to fix the game

Yeah I agree. Just mere fact that wine can use vulkan to play DirectX11/12 games is big deal

@@jacobtheheartless1640 WINE/Proton is getting amazing and Lutris is great too I think as soon as the anticheat (BattlEye: R6S, PUBG etc and EAC: Fortnite, Rust, etc) is supported thru Proton adoption should pick up faster

Sam Barringer, yeah it’s picking up. Steam on Linux is almost at 1%. For comparison, Mac steam use is around 3.6%. See: www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Steam-June-2020-Stats

@Corndog King1 I can't figure out if this is rhetorical or not. There are alot of us Linux gamers. If you play multiplayer games chances are you have played with a Linux gamer somewhere down the line.

@@randalgradle7415 True

Statistically OpenGL is a far, far more popular API than Dx, because 99% of mobile games and apps use it. So, from the perspective of numbers OpenGL won. It's a similar situation to Linux's adoption, which is also installed on a much larger number of machines (servers, routers, cable boxes, android devices and all supercomputers) than Windows and more people use it (directly and indirectly) than Windows. It's of course completely different on the Desktop PC.

Statistically more people drown when eating more ice cream.

You're not very smart are you? Android is taking the market by storm, it's based on Debian Linux, and runs on a modified version of OpenGL. What this means, you incompetent twit, is that OpenGL only really started getting utilized in recent years, so if Vulkan performs better and Android selects to switch to Vulkan...

www.trustedreviews.com/android-7-0-nougat-review-vulkan-api-and-performance-page-3

Vulkan is already on android, since the nougat released on 22 Augusti 2016......www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/feature/2468714/8-of-android-70-nougats-best-new-features/page/6

don't get me wrong... they make nice GPUs, but their support for GNU/Linux is on par with that of NVIDIA... without the community to fill the holes. Expecially on the laptop side of things... My laptop has hybrid graphics GeForce/IntellHD. The official drivers have no support for it, but there is the Bumblee Project that let's me choose when to use the GeForce... do you have an AMD hybrid graphic system? Tough luck.

Jimmy Valentine it's not like nVIDIA is that much better...

+Jimmy Valentine then it's your country's fault not AMD lol

Jimmy Valentine good bait. But the prices AMD gave were MSRP and retailers give no shit about them really

In a few years, Jimmy will look at his comments and cringe. At least I hope so.

No

No

yes

Yes

* best tech channel

download Vulkan runtime or Vulkan SDK

it needs to, I'm sick of having my gaming PC stuck on windows. Would much rather use Linux Mint.

@@noaln1697 true, windows sucks

@@noaln1697 I already switched, proton does wonders. Not for every game, but for most already.

LonttuGamer Any performance hit? My rig is starting to show its age a bit.

there's money to be made they don't care

why not both?

No Man's Sky didn't care about either :D

fluidity and well optimized framerate is directly responsible for good gameplay, the higher the FPS the better the responsiveness and feel of the game. ...and the people working on the engine and the art assets for a game are not the same people working on the game mechanics and rules or balance or what have you. look at Star Wars Battlefront, awesome engine, awesome graphics, very average and disappointing game design. Obviously some people are more talented at their jobs than others.

Agreed but besides gameplay, AI needs to be improved drastically, I'm surprised there's still no on board AI chip which would hold numerous commands and libraries for programmers to access in developing games with much better AI, path-finding etc.

Holy shit i almost dont know how to reply anymore

how do u reply ??! Guys i think youtube is broken!!

the reply feature is bit meh but yay for likes. still might as well remove dislike button

no shit

So how do I + someone now?

:(

it was Unlisted for OVER an HOUR, how do you know people haven't finished watching it?

*finished

Wise Guy 508 finnished*

+Wise Guy 508 *finnished

I'm Demise Luke hands*

Hulk hands

Luv ya

looks like some don't even notice the joke

luke = hulk. He was wearing hulk hands at first. dats about. it. green version of his hands.

@TheThunderGuy S what are you even talking about

@TheThunderGuy SWhat are you talking about? Id developed everything in the game, Bethesda only published the game.

I got 45-55 fps 4k in directx, and got 60-70 in vulcan. Might just be better use of my 4gb vram

Imagine if his kids grew up to be AMD fans.

Said like a true Nvidia fanboy.

wait I'm a Nvidia lover but i didn't give a fuck to dx 12 or either 11

Are there Nvidia/AMD fanboys, or just people that are in it for either the best performance, or the best bang for their buck? I don't think there's necessarily a division in the fanboy sense, just people who want the best performance, vs. people who want the best price. You guys and all this fanboy stuff XD. If I have 300 bucks I am going AMD, if I have 700, I am going Nvidia. That's about it. lol :)

Those are fanboys Capn dont let them fool you.

yo

O_o

the people that eat what they want to eat.

you

grind up some chicken and put a bit of turkey in there, delicious

Tomb Raiders back end is always functioning XD

I'd hate to see the software you develop.

+Daniel Day Savage

That's probably a good thing.

The analogy was incorrect though.

How is it incorrect?

DX12 is their attempt. It kneecaps Nvidia performance.

They have such a small R&D budget in comparison to Nvidia, hanging in there is pretty impressive as it stands. Would be nice though, fingers crossed for Vega :)

I just want some healthy competition,it doesn't matter who's better.

Probably not gonna happen anytime soon

If they manage to do that Nvidia simply moves up the timeline since they have designed beyond Volta, it would take time to manufacture and test the chips but far less time than amd would need for their next design, essentially they've gotten themselves in a hole so they'll have to claw their way out if they want to succeed.

they did , its called metal -_- as someone who programs in OpenGL is super annoying

they would advertise it as 'apple invents implementing vulkan inside osx'

apples OpenGL implementation is super outdated eughhh

What about Swift? I think that's what it's called? Or was that perhaps just their programming language based on OpenGL implementation?

+Mudbill Swift is just their programming language as a successor to ObjectiveC

***** I think it's more about the threads/cores. Intel just did better at single threaded early on. Everyone wins!

Doom's vulkan support is still broken though..

***** It depends on your hardware. But you'll only see much of a difference if any if your cpu is a bottleneck. Otherwise just pray that your gpu doesn't have a problem. I have a gtx 690 and currently you can not get through the intro videos. If you use a launch parameter to skip them, you can play although at a relatively low framerate and load times are more than a minute on vulkan will opengl is under 10 seconds on the same levels. Changing video options running vulkan for me is impossible because they make the game hang. And load screens seem to be a 50/50 chance of actually finishing or hanging. There are plenty of people complaining on steams forums about how the game is broken and unplayable after the vulkan update.

+

Looks like Adobe After Effects. Look up someone like Fx bro or some tutorials to find out more

Thanks bro

Mt.Mograph, armaganvideos, ecabrams, after effects mikey etc :D

Woah... thanks bro! this is great!

marre321 You're welcome ;) Upload your animations in the future :)

prob because most nerds are windows nerds.

tjeulink I was a windows nerd once, then I took an 8 in the knee... and thankfully I dropped because otherwise I would have taken a 10 up the ass like all the other windows nerds. Even if you're a windows nerd, WHY use DX12 when it doesn't work on the only still living decent Windows operating system (7)? Whereas Vulkan does!

Cestarian Inhabitant i dunno, it would just be the most likely cause. windows is becoming a little bit like apple, proprietary this proprietary that. the good old embrace expand extinguish etc.

tjeulink Embrace extend extinguish. This isn't that but yeah I noticed with 8 that Microsoft was becoming more like Apple, and I used Windows precisely because I didn't like Apple or MacOS, yet there they are... Imitating their weaker competitor (yes Microsoft always had a much much bigger market share on the PC than Apple yet for some reason Microsoft imitates Apple rather than the other way around, I cannot fathom this stupidity) And it only showed with Windows 10 that while they fixed the user interface, under the hood became even more horrid than within the 8, and they're working day and night making it even worse with updates. I'm on windows 7 now and I am never going to use Windows 8 or 10. I have Linux on another computer and I can switch between them with the flick of a switch now (no dual boot, yay!) I only use windows for games that don't run on linux and when windows 7 finally stops working properly as microsoft seems to be planning, I will just abandon windows completely. I would rather not have a computer than have a little microsoft spy (aka windows 10) in my home. Luckily I have the option of linux instead. But even without it I simply can't understand why devs are using DX12 over Vulkan, they gain nothing from using DX12 instead of using Vulkan, they only reinforce Microsoft's monopoly, in truth microsoft should be paying them to use DX12 because it ties them to their platform (which Vulkan does not) but these idiots just can't seem to see it, and I thought devs were supposed to be smart. (At least the ones over at iD Tech are, I mean they may not support linux or anything, they may not be making use of their game's cross platform capabilities, but they used the apis, it's there, and almost like the flick of a switch they can add support for MacOS and Linux, no problem whenever they so choose. I imagine the only reason that the switch is down is because of Zenimax/Bethesda softworks seemingly being religiously tied to Microsoft products like Windows and Xbox, I'm surprised bethesdas games were ever released on playstation to begin with.)

Probably because DX12 launched earlier. Vulkan will always stay relevant due to mobile and Linux gaming. Hopefully Vulkan takes Windows over too.

Not really. Async compute allows you to utilize power you couldn't utilize before. Nvidia hardware tab into everything at once and render faster, freeing up time to render anything else needed. I'd imagine its the reason AMD hardware get better with driver updates. But, that's as far as i know. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Nvidia has fewer CUDA cores than AMD has shading cores, so Nvidia has it much easier to get the best out of their chips, they don't need async compute until they go beyond 3K CUDA cores. While AMD is optimizing async scheduler on their GPUs to use more cores simultaneously. They have 4096 shading cores in Fury X.

From what I understand; yes and no. You are correct in that it DOES allow utilisation of resources that weren't previously in use, but that's not all it does (hence why no.) The other thing it does is it allows for quicker switching of tasks, between compute loads and graphical loads. AMD shines at this while Nvidia prefer developers don't swap the type of workload often - or at least, not heavily. AMD hardware schedulers have no issue with it. Only the Pascal series has a software scheduler and only the Fermi series (and some time before? I don't know since when.) had a hardware one, but AFAIK, Nvidia haven't enabled asynchronous compute on Fermi, likely because it'd make the card shine. Work as well as new hardware? Doubt it. Bring Fermi back to life and point out some flaws? Possible. Anywhoo, yes, you are right that Nvidia is more efficient with the hardware they've got, no doubt about that, but there's more to it than what their PR tells people. (And that's something I specifically remember Nvidia PR saying. Not trying to flame you or anything.)

Cossack-HD Absolutely. I didn't delve into that with my last comment, but you're spot on. Fewer, stronger cores are easier to organise and produce just as much/more output than more, weaker cores (depending on how weak they are/how disorganised.) That's why I'm hoping for more asynchronous integration. Bring out the best in more hardware.

Niall Mullenger I'd like to calculate real world performance (FPS) per raw performance (TFLOP) in DX11 vs DX12 scenarios for Nvidia and AMD. I suspect that 5 TFLOPS AMD will be much closer to 5 TFLOPS Nvidia in DX12.

Yeah turns out raiding tombs week after week isn't a good practice for the back end unless she used a skeleton to fix the backend if you know what I mean

That's generous...

Sadly if your current hardware can't handle arma 3 opengl currently, Then you probably don't have new enough hardware to run vulkan :/

Yea :/

Are you kidding? My framerate chugs at like 35-40fps on Doom withUltra settings but I get 60-80fps with Vulkan enabled on Ultra. ArmA has always, ALWAYS, been terrible at great server-side optimisation. This leads to things like the stupid 30fps ting everyone's getting yet they can easily get 60+fps in single player. The game might be realistic and fun but you can't deny that it's so poorly done in some areas.

Maybe, if the server runs with Vulkan.

still waiting for Half Life 3

I hear you have to sue Valve before they will release it

Lol, CS 1.6 never got upgraded from GldSrc, what makes you think CS:GO is going to get any major improvement?

***** I hear if you force Gabe Newell to do anything 3 times you go missing.

CS:GO is never getting upgraded in the way we want it to be.

Yup, the waiter analogy was dead on!

Check the autoplay button in youtube. It is located at the top right area of the page.

RDR2

@@louistournas120 no like I mean why would this come up as my next autoplay video in 2019 :D. I was commenting on youtube's weird suggestion algorithm.

2020 here!

lmao 2020 and im here

They won't do it - c'mon, even in their "Which CPU to buy" they focused only on cutting edge of the current gen (Skylake), so based on their video my i7-3770 @ 4,2GHz is a piece of junk now -.-

Nah they just rather focus on whats new rather than buying used parts

The problem these days is most youtubers are going after "influencer" money. Which means they are going to mostly talk about the latest and most expensive hardware. While its interesting to see what a $3000 system will do, most of the time, you aren't going to get any decent information on what to upgrade on a 3+ year old computer.

I would rather not believe most of stuff said on this channel .

If your 3770k is a piece of junk, then what of my 3550k.

-T-X-M- Yea true...

It's all about whether the Apple customers will even care.

You mean like MoltenVK that was launched together with Vulkan?

just why?

Thomas Brix Larsen Oh! I didn't even know that existed :D

Some processes are serial, and thus cannot be parallelized. Meaning some things need to be done in steps, one after the other, and thus cannot be split across multiple cores to be carried out all at once. Also, its actually really freaking hard to program multicore processes. I totally failed the first time I tried it, and that was just supposed to be a performance benchmark to compare against the single-thread version of the same sorting program.

I remember Linus also had a video on this subject. Check it! It's about parallel computing problem, not many real life problems can be parallelized

thx for the info people.

The problem is with how programming languages work by mutating and modifying states. This really have been solved with functional programming languages like Erlang and Haskell but most programmers don't want to learn those tools cause really nobody outside of telecommunications and some niche market cares for those things. It's really about the ole Russian philosophy. If it works don't fix it. So if we want muticore performance we really need to pay programmers to use it else they won't even care.

+flash Man you're still limited by the hardware which is a Von Neumann architecture, meaning it is completely dependent on load store, fetch execute cycle. Functional programming is just another layer of abstraction on top of typical von Neumann hardware. There isn't anything magical by utilizing this and suddenly tasks are more efficiently parallelized. In fact, functional languages carry a performance hit when compared to lower abstractions, such as C or C++. However, functional abstraction makes coding some solutions more intuitive and therefore saves implementation time. You can code a functionally equivalent solution in a lower level language, with equivalent or better parallelism, with better performance. It just likely takes a little longer to cook up.

I'll have what he's having.

Yea, and told us nothing that we already knew.

No you don't understand. It is very technically challenging for both companies. I can guarantee you that when Nvidia decides to start focusing on it as well they will do it just like AMD has (and probably better). Now I'm not trying to shame AMD but Nvidia just has way more money to throw at R&D.

He's not wrong. AMD have been setup for "async compute" for years at this point, they even went as far as developing their own API to facilitate it, they've already done the leg work And the argument for Nvidia (properly) implementing the hardware capabilities is missing the point. They are essentially holding back progress in this regard and one which has huge potential for unlocking the underlying performance of the AMD hardware that's been there for years. The challenge is for the game engine developers to utilise the feature, a challenge which is made less favorable by the lack of benefit seen on Nvidia hardware. Doom may just be one game, but it shows what can be achieved with mid-priced hardware from 2 years ago.

Doctor Jew because people keep throwing away their money

its 9 series and 10 series

It's 900 and 10 series

geigster no its 9 series and 10 series.... becouse its 970 for series 9 and model 70 same thing for 1070....

Well, when even Nvidia makes a mess out of what to name their series, you know you can't just assume to know better. http : // www . geforce . com / hardware / desktop-gpus https : // developer . nvidia . com / vulkan-driver

there is not mess in anything... it was like that from day one.. GTX 450 (series 4 model 50) GTX 550(series 5 model 50) GTX 650 (series 6 model 50) GTX 750 (Series 7 model 50) GTX 850m (Series 8 model 50, edition mobile) GTX 980Ti (Series 9, model 80, Edition Ti) simple as that there is Titan X (pascal) what is little bit mess but thats just one model

searched for this comment to like.

Not really bad driving, more likely not used to manual gearbox.

That was from a CSF video where he was driving horribly

What's CSF? I assume it's not cerebrospinal fluid.. :P

Channel Super Fun

It's been like that since Oblivion though.

a lot of games do that. it's just simpler to do this way.

SkullSkillsSkates Except a year later when hardware catches up and overtakes the limitations. Also not simpler or easier to do if you actually set out to make it framerate independent from the get go. Bethesda have just been lazy af. They keep reiterating on an old engine instead of taking the much needed plummet for a complete rewirte. So many huge- known issues with even recent titles of theirs would have been gone with a proper re-fresh.

it's not just bethesda. nor is it even hard to do with todays hardware. it's just simpler to use something so old that anyone can write the code and make it work. and bethesdas engine is a whole other bucket of shit. but might as well use a measure of fps instead of say writing code for internal clock to count your actions or anything else. besides mechanics being tied to fps can be fixed by adding multipliers to different values of fps as well. or just limit ones fps to a certain one.

Well to be fair it has to be a bucket of shit to give it parity with the shit that passes for character art within their ranks. On the bright side... I suppose no one gets fired simply because the industry now attracts and has grown real talented artists? I warmly like to imagine that they have a tight-knit family culture which actively promotes friendly close bonds! Making such denials so much easier. ( That... and the army of fans who apparently luv their stuff? Suffering no apparent gag-reflex "woe" to speak of? )

Yeah me too

forget the shirt i want those hulk gloves.....gimmie

BF1 will have dx12.

Yes, I mean more of the implementation of it. It showed no real improvement in the Beta.

If it showed no real improvement in the beta, then it'll show no real improvement in the final product. The beta is more for stress testing the servers than anything else.

Microtardz Kind of sad if that's what really ends up happening... I usually base my GPU purchasing decisions on the latest Battlefield - done that for years

Bf1 already had a noticeable improvement at this early stage if you´re not running the latest CPUs. The trouble with benchmark outlets is that they always only test on their souped up top of the line CPUs.However, the primary benefit of the new APIs at the moment is better CPU usage. If you happen to get a hold of tests where they run Dx12 titles on not-top of the line processors - i.e., real world rigs, it shows good gains in many cases.

Second row is Vulcan supported OS.

????? = vulkan

whaty vulkin os sounds awesome

anikanbounty97 vulkan isnt an os

Cheng Ye oh

I guess, but DX12 leaves linux out, which is a big penalty for me.

use that "search" option on top of this video... just saying...

fast sync? you mean free sync

No, Fast Sync by Nvidia, is a new tecnology.

free sync?

No, Fast Sync.

HE HE HE

Hitman and Deus Ex: MD, both Gaming Evolved games with poor implementations of DX12. Huh.

+RichardHawk Deus ex has a beta patch for dx12 and hitman actually does well in dx12. To go farther ashes will be one of the best dx12 optimized games for a while, and bf1 showed some pretty good returns in the beta if you didn't crash enabling it lol. This is all amd side mind you

From software are the worst for it. Hmmm, lovely 60fps hard cap

Sad to see Luke isn't around anymore 😢

It's now 6 cores instead of 8...in a few more it'll be 8

Haha, I thought this was a recent video

@@arlequin7002 lol same

Doom = Still broken vulkan support for many people.

i get twice frames on geothermal valley with dx12 in rise of the tomb rider

I have the 390 and 8350. they run best on everything!

So true. I have a fx 8350 with a gtx 1060.

no bottlenecks already m8 if you OC it well

+Jason Davenport Same here, It sucks!

Well yeah but what savvy gamer uses AMD graphics cards anyway? lol

No he didn't, perhaps you should watch again.

He is smart but not that smart; "format, transmit and interpret " it is doing and application at base layer, vulkan it's on the same concept as the cissco basics as ccna practices! bat english sorry! basicly vulkan is adopting more and more of really good concepts that are developed buy a bunch of arhitects that are not many! ccna practices got us at fiber link and 100 gigabit speeds!