You Are Doing It Wrong! | Exile Effects In Commander 

I had a busy weekend but then again so did all of you in the comments. In the future I'll put a post like this in the description ... for now I'll pin it here. First I don't want to get super into the rules in the video so it can be less technical and more accessible. Let me know if you want more technical answers I'm good at copy+paste from real judges. It was a mistake to not throw in some sources so here are some now. I don't think many people are discussing the difference between Fiend Hunter and Banisher Priest but here is some info including the Spell Queller interaction: magicjudge.tumblr.com/post/150449941559/not-a-fan-of-fairgrounds-warden-why-did-you Also about duration and why the Banisher Priest doesn't blink a creature it is targeting if sacrificed in response to the etb trigger: magicjudge.tumblr.com/post/154863718109/i-took-a-call-at-work-last-week-about-how Here is the REAL argument ... a commander can reenter play from the command zone, without payment or tax, after a card like Banishing Light has exiled the commander when that Banishing Light is destroyed. Answer in Judge Blog: magicjudge.tumblr.com/post/127878974954/if-banishing-light-is-used-on-a-commander-and-the I asked a judge live in judge chat before the video but didn't screen shot it or anything. Kenyan Lee confirmed in judge chat and screenshotted the results and tweeted it at me. Here is a link to the tweet where you can read the judge conversation: twitter.com/KeiruKeiruRNG/status/924060838989774848 (you should follow me on twitter as long as you are there) Summary for people who don't like twitter: The actual rule cited is 400.7h which basically says that Banishing Light can track your commander into a "Public Zone" like the command zone and it goes to the command zone because of Rule 614.6. That rule essentially replaces the text of Banishing Light to read "Put Creature in Command Zone" instead of "Exile Target Creature" I hope that helps. Feel free to message me other rules interactions that will cause huge arguments Cheers

These are the tech videos i was talking about. We try to improve are decks and neglect to improve gameplay

I didn't believe this at first, but it came up in MTGA's Brawl. Someone used Deputy of Detention on my commander and when it died, the commander came back.

It took me awhile to grasp the reasoning behind this, but it's because moving your commnader to the command zone is a replacement effect (which I could have sworn it wasn't). When an object changes zones it becomes a "new" entity of itself, thus undoing it's attachments to cards (banishing effects). If the command zone is a replacement effect, then when a commander is put into the command zone, it does not trigger any dying effects as well

I learnt this from my friend who plays Norin the Wary as his commander.

One more thing about playing Oblivion Ring-like effects in Multiplayer - If player lose the game when he owns Oblivion Ring, the exiled permanent stays in exile. That's because upon losing the game OR leaves the battlefield, and then all spells and abilities controlled by defeated player leaves the stack. That's not true for Banishing Light-like effects. So, it's a bit political choice to run Oblivion Ring - "kill me, and you will never see your beloved permanent again"

"Nightmares" (like the Mesmeric Fiend you showed) were an entire archetype in Torment, sacrifice interactions included. It wasn't until so many Nightmare-like effects moved into white where they were paired with Flicker-like effects that the need for the redesign came about.

When doing these kinds of rule videos, I think putting an information source or two in the description would be a good idea. Nice video!

I've had this come up in a couple of games and people tried to explain it. At that time it was just a wall-of-text in vocal that had me merely going "Eh, you know your deck so you're probably right", but now it actually makes sense to me. Thank you :)

Thanks man!, as I always say: Commander is the place where the Judge's thesis are made.

This sort of interaction is one that Death and Taxes used to do a lot of: Step 1: Play Mangara of Corondor or any exile creature. Step 2: Activate Mangara (next turn if he wasn't vialed in at opponent's EOT)/exile trigger goes on the stack. Step 3: Aether Vial in a Flickerwisp/activate an Eldrazi Displacer/flash in a Stonecloaker targeting the exile creature. Step 4: keep your creature while opponent loses theirs.

Thank you!!! I've been doing research about this but it wasn't entirely clear. You made this easier to understand.

So I clicked on your link because you challenged me. I did know all of this, (while my play and deck building both have plenty of room to improve I spend so much time on MTG that my knowledge of cards and rulings is extensive.) While I found your voice grateing. The quality of the content was excellent. You spoke methodically with out dragging it out, while also having excellent visual aids. You got my sub.

Love the idea of videos about rules. You are correct that there aren't a lot of videos about how rules interact. Killer idea for a series!

Excellent work! Sharing this to my Commander play group!

lol I knew from the title that this was the example coming up. Thank you for explaining it all. Too many times have I done this and spent the next 10 minutes trying to explain why this works.

For people seeing this video this is outdated. In 2020 they updated the rules. Your commander will hit exile and then go to the command zone if you want it to and becomes a new object. The banisher priest then won’t be able to find the commander it exiled because it’s not the same object anymore. It specifically states now that it’s only a replacement effect if your commander goes to hand or library. Exiling and graveyards now work off state based actions. Almost all info you will see about this interaction online is pre 2020. Post 2020 it does not work anymore.

You should add that you target when the triggers goes on the stack, for clarity's sake. Good video, I learnt something here!

Oddly enough, the nightmare creatures in the Torment block worked the same way as Fiend Hunter, and the precon deck Waking Nightmares built around them KNEW this, even including sacrifice outlets to abuse it.

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING. THE BANISHING LIGHT EXPLOIT!

The interactions of exile effects, and commanders are really cool. Notably, the interaction between Reyhan, Last of the Abzan and Deadeye Navigator gives Reyhan the ability 1U: put three +1/+1 counters on target creature you control. Things like that make the game super fun.

Thanks, really didn't know this. Immediately forwarded it to my playgroup.

I don't get anxious over not knowing all the rules - I love it there's always something new to find out, be it the workings of a new mechanic or a new way to use an old one. it's not that puzzles show up in matches, the game itself is sort of a puzzle. kind of reminds me of how complex fantasy stories make magic look

MIND BLOWN! Man, thanks for this.

DJ you seem like the nicest guy. Glad I found your channel through the command zone, working my way backwards through your content 👍

I like you! You're a good egg. There needs to be more videos explaining these oddly specific rules and how to improve people's gameplay in general.

Thanks for this. I tried explaining this to my friends a few weeks ago. But I couldn’t explain it well enough.

Cooooooool Jumbo!!! Thx.. something to pass along to others.

I already knew about that stacked second paragraph exile effect, but holy crap, if someone banishing lights your ur dragon and you blow it up, free 9 drop back into the battlefield? Holy crap, that's a game changer

I just found your vids and I love them! Keep up the killer work!

Such a great video. Thanks for making this. I hate this rule but atleast I understand it now.

thought this might just be click bait but i was pleased thanks for the new bit of tech!!

This is why I'm glad I run in a playgroup that understands things like this so I don't get into arguments with them about it.

This was a very helpful video for me, thanks DJ!

Wow! I didn't know about that rule with cards like Banishing Light! That is very good to know! Also I have never heard of Fiend Hunter before! The fact that you can target your creatures with it means that you could also use it on your creatures with enter the battlefield effects and get more triggers by sacrificing or blinking Fiend Hunter. Although you might as well just blink the creature with an enter the battlefield effect.

I remember hearing about this a couple of years ago... Glad you sorted things up

That return from command zone thing blew my mind.

This is an awesome video! If you happen to make other like this one that explains simply other cornercase rules, it would be even better to mention the rule numbers that make this interaction possible (in the video description for instance). This is for people like me who love knowing why exactly and for people that don't believe you. Keep up those quality content!

Thanks!!! This is an awesome rule to know.

I didn't have an ashnods altar but when I started playing Commander I used isochron scepter with unsummon horror similar bounce ability but that was also in a deveri stax deck

Awesome! Thanks for the info

Question. As far as I know I can use an eldrazi processor to put a card into the graveyard that I banished with Banishing Light. And that causes the card to become a different card because it changes zones afterwards -> Banishing Light can't find it. What you staid was just one special case for commander because they basicly replace exil with put into command zone.

Thank you for making this video, it got me interested in your channel and you even got a nice voice man!

Thanks Jumbo!

You can now send you commander to the command Zone even when he gets put in or onto your library because before it was possible to Exile a commander completly with putting him onto the library and then using a Card like Pyxis of Pandemonium to Exile the top Card faced down.

You can also do some exile shenanigans with parallax wave and parallax tide. Basically put all the exile triggers on the stack and then blink/sac them.

6:40 the stack would resolve backwards tho meaning the last part is the exile of your commander so you will always know if the ring is on the battlefield when your commander gets exiled so you never have to worry about that. They bounces/saced/removed the ring? command zone. Ring still on field? Let commander get put under it. OR command zone if you want.

I love the Fiend Hunter interaction if I'm honest. Always have xD Using Tidehollow Sculler in the same way atm, because I don't even like having friends.

Great video, DJ Thanks

I started playing Brago because how he breaks hexproof rules. When enchantments return to the battlefield, they are no longer targeting. Therefore, they can be attached to any creatures.

Dude i totally appreciate the video i learned alot from it!

Thank you so much! Please do more vids like this

You can also use cards like Cloudshift on fiend hunter, as then you can target an extra creature to exile when it comes back onto the battlefield while keeping the first target in permanent exile

Thanks for the rules - you got a new subscriber

Thank you for making Me a better Magic player.. with this knowledge. Thx

I was actually under the opposite assumption with commander exile, I thought it worked with all exile effects like O Ring, always something to learn.

You could also use the older card to blink creatures with enter the battlefield effects because it doesn't specify an opponent's creature.

Oh Panaharmicon how it loves ETB effects. Stacks!

Good old Oblivion Ring exploit. I remember back in the day when people thought I'm cheating while I was explaining how it works. I'm glad they changed the rule so that all this weirdness doesn't get encountered by new players in standard sets anymore. But I love to abuse it in Commander :D. Same reason why they removed combat damage from the stack. People felt cheated when you killed two creatures with Mogg Fanatic. Kinda sad they couldn't figure out a good version for Spell Queller :/.

My mind has been blown. Can't wait to use this, especially the first in my human sacrifice deck.

Torment was full of creatures that abused this interaction. Faceless Butcher and Mesmiric Fiend being the strongest.

>903.9a If a commander is in a graveyard or in exile and that object was put into that zone since the last time state-based actions were checked, its owner may put it into the command zone. This is a state-based action. See rule 704. Putting a Commander into the Command Zone occurs *after* the Commander is placed in the GY or Exile. It is NOT a replacement effect. This does *not* work.

You sort of left out the best bit... If you play a 2-trigger exile permanent on an enemy commander while having an sacrifice/bounce effect for it, you can threaten your enemies commander with permanent exile! Meaning that they almost have to send it to the command zone, because if they sent it to exile and you would restack the triggers... it will stay in exile forever. Roon of the Hidden Realms sends his greetings. :)

Wow, that's right. Goddam complicated rules.

If I were to sack the banisher priest, would the creature I exiled be blinked? Or would it never leave the field since banisher is already gone?

My friend uses that Fiend Hunter interaction in his Karador where he targets something on ETB sacs it and then the second half of the card triggers trying to bring something back has no target which results in whatever he targeted being stuck in exile.

I’ve been playing competitively for 4 years. Knew about the fiend hunter ruling did not know about the exile rule on the new cards.

Been doing the Fiend Hunter trick since before Fiend Hunter was printed. Narrow Escape + Journey to Nowhere back in og Zendikar.

fiend hunter + altar.. nah i feel better using my Parallax Wave then sacrifice it to exile a bunch of stuff :P . btw is always awesome to learn about rules. thanks for this video.

Yeah I discovered this when building roon his effect also returns the creature even if they put it in the command zone

My favourite thing in my "I dont need friends" deck is Sundial of the Infinite with stuff like Sudden Disappearance. Exile commanders like theres no tomorrow.

The Fiend Hunter interaction can also be used with Though-Knot Seer. A typical thing for Eldrazi decks to do is play Thought-Knot Seer and when the ability is on the stack blink it with Eldrazi Displacer

This was helpful!

Whoa, ok. That's crazy

Thanks!

This entire video essentially was about how Banishing light and Banishing priest are bad cards in commander.

Would you mind citing your source for that second interaction with the banishing light command Zone Tech please?

Ran into this problem against Reyhan, Last of the Abzan with me having an Angel of Condemnation. Crazy stuff. :))

I was under the impression that the Command Zone is different than Exile. So if a card tells you to exile your commander and you replace the effect with command zone, they are two different things. You do not get the flexibility to blow up the O-ring or Banishing Light for a free commander, because the card was never exiled. The exile effect was replaced with command zone.

i feel like exiling your own commander to cheat it back into play would be a pretty fun build around xD

this also works with flikering feind hunter if you do it right you can start to exils lots of things

Opalesence + Parralax Wave is one of the more brutal ways to exploit effects like on Fiend Hunter.

Epic I wonder how these cards would be read online under these circumstances.

Fiend hunter didnt create this exploit, faceless butcher did and bounce effect work better than sac if u can swing it.

Question, banishing light hits the commander and sends it to the command zone. The commander is played from the command zone and enters the battlefield. Banishing light leaves the battlefield with the commander it exiled in play, does the commander flicker or not. I assume not because it isn't going anywhere it just goes to the battlefield from the battlefield

thank god there are less convoluted ways to exile things.

neat but im afraid i dont want to have to argue this without showing them this video to my casual group.

My understanding of the banishing light interaction is that the command zone is not the same as exile so it can’t grab the permanent from exile, same as how Hostage Taker doesn’t return cast creatures because they are no longer in exile. I was aware of the fiend hunter trigger though, I run both that and faceless butcher in any decks with a lot of sacrifice outlets (namely my alesha and Ghave decks)

Just resalized how gross it could be to cause Fiend Hunter to leave the battlefield in response to his own ETB, and that doing so with an Ashnod's Altar was even more disgusting. Now he needs Flash...

Thanks for walking through the Fiend Hunter shenanigans. I've known about it for a long while now, but I never understood it no matter how many times I read through the process. Does this also apply for "flicker" effects on Fiend Hunter?

Wow, I didn't know banishing light worked that way.

So would this play be legal? 1. Banishing light on commander 2. Send commander to the command zone 3. Cast commander for it's appropriate CCM Then as the commander dies again, later destroy banishing light and return the commander after having cast it

I got. But at my point of view it shold work aldo for the ring. If Banish light could find the commander at his zone the ring should be able to do so. 1 or 2 triggers isnt enough to change this.

Wow. Thank you.

I'm honestly baffled as to why someone would downvote this? Like, do they just hate being informed of how the rules actually work? I'm as confused by that as they are with the rules probably

More videos like this please

Super cool interaction! And I thought the new "Oblivion Ring" variants were strictly worse.....Boy was I wrong! Keep up the great work! (BTW: Anyone have any kewl new tech that exploits this interaction? Maybe especially with Eminence (or Oloro-type) effects?

He can target his own cratures with his first card so like they really aren't at all the same cards or even effects. Both cards are more different then just like two triggers

Oh wow, I haven't really kept up with Magic as much as I probably should, but I didn't know about Spell Queller but it seems like a really good card. What's that, an Abrupt Decay? Lol, I'mma exile that. Supreme Verdict, cya later.

You can really abuse Oblivion Ring- like cards with Vedalken Mastermind