You need to go watch this video from Primal Rights! 

Agree, it doesn't make sense to me to trim and chamfer after final cleaning. Why would anyone want brass shavings in the neck while seating, and going down the bore?

Actually if it's anything like other metal working....it's cleanest when it's freshly cut ....Unless there's lots of cutting lube used which I don't think they do on an autodod......

I've tested this as well. Case volume changes over time with internal carbon built up. So if you're dialing in a load with new cases your case volume will change as they are fired over time. Unless you clean out the carbon with wet tumbling. HOWEVER! you must then lube the necks because the layer of carbon inside the neck acts as a sort of dry lubricant. Squeeky clean necks are not good for peak accuracy. I use pure graphite suspended in 99% iso alcohol applied with a foam q-tip. Within a few minutes the ISO flashes off and you have a fine layer of graphite left behind. As a side point I found that dry tumbling did not remove the oxide layer fully from flame annealing which is what started me wet tumbling in the first place. Which is where I found out and tested that squeeky clean necks shoot less accurately in my benchrest rifle.

@@MMBRM - what method did you use to determine the reduction in volume due to carbon build-up?

@@rsf5898 Well, I first noticed this issue when full sizing brass which had been dry tumbled. The carbon will flake off the walls of the case and if you tap the case on a table neck side down you get a small pile of powder residue. While I didn't quantify the exact amount it seemed to get worse with brass that had more firings. When I got my wet tumbler because of the oxide residue from flame annealing I took those cases and weighed 20 of them(with a scientific scale capable of 0.02gn resolution), did a water volume test with 10 and then marked them with a permanent marker. After wet tumbling the weight went down and the water volume went up on every single case.

Devil's advocate here......but I've heard that cleaning with the steel pins can cause damage....Can't remember if it was to the case mouth or primer pockets.... But I know I've seen it in more then one spot....

@@prone_wolf8871​​⁠ I’ve been cleaning with stainless steel wet tumbling for about 7 years now , I’ve never had any damage to my cases . Some will say it peens the edge of the case mouth , yes it does but it disappears once you trim them . The beauty of cleaning with stainless tumbling is that your cases does not accumulate with carbon , so they stay consistent. Consistency is the name of the game when it comes to reloading . If you do not remove the carbon build up inside your cases , there is no consistency in the process and you have variables . Again 1x fired brass has less carbon build up than 12x fired brass if you do not remove the carbon .

Primal Rights is the channel name.

@@yukon4545 thank you.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-crp3U5Gt9to.html I guess that's the one. Embedded links do not appear in web Browser that remove ads in RU-vid.

My fellow range member told me the opposite and I believe it, smaller calibers are less forgiving. A larger caliber such as a 308 if you are .02 grains off it won't be a big deal. On a 223 cartridge that .02 grain difference in powder is much greater because the total grains for the cartridge is smaller.

Mass of the rifle system and Kinetic Energy of the cartridge are the big factors. Heavier rifle + Low energy cartridge = Smallest groups. Powerful rifle + lightweight rifle = larger groups. This is correlated with hunting rifles vs. BR rifles.

Small calibers are definitely more forgiving and have greater inherent accuracy while requiring less skill to shoot well due to recoil. A 6mm with a slow twist barrel(1-14 to 1-16) and light(64-68gn) bullets has been king of 100-200 yard accuracy for decades. It's not even particularly close.

I have a story-board up on how Aerodynamic jump affects short range zero, load development, and long-range no-wind zeros. I should have that one done in a couple of weeks. I have a different way of looking at it that may be useful for shooters.

@@winninginthewind Looking forward to it !

I use corncob media. I also use a lanolin based sizing lube. The effect is the same as Greg described.

@@winninginthewind Does your media come pre-treated? Most I've seen does. What lanolin based sizing lube do you use if I may ask? Thanks. Always like being a sponge when it comes to you pros

@@winninginthewind I went through a phase years ago when I wet tumbled because I like shiny brass and always cleaned before sizing but then had to clean again in a tumbler after sizing and that was taking too much time. For awhile I used that stuff called "Froggy's lube." Graphite suspended in alcohol in my squeaky clean cases and I don't recall every having issues with long range accuracy but I'm only a hunter, not a competitor but was very satisfied with LOW ES numbers.

He gives most steps in the video: Anneal, size (Body and neck), tumble, seat bullets. He's stated that he trims after sizing, as per usual standard.

@@Iscariot18 Does he tumble before or after trimming?

@@greasegun1313 Don't know, but can't imagine why he'd trim after tumbling.

I had to laugh at that one!

Facts and fantasy