this toro riding mower was donated to us after the engine locked up while doing fall cleanup, its a Kohler Command engine 18 hp, it failed in a way I have never seen before, can you guess what happened?
i remember a couple of years ago i stumbled across your channel you inspired me to get into small engines this week i got hired at my local small engine shop thank you mustie
considering the diameter of that bolt, relative to the hole, I wonder if the design got undermined by "yeah, but if we downside the bolt, it's a few cents cheaper per 1000", and then it snowballs *hard*
This is just stupid. It's a counterweight: why not just use a really big grade nothing bolt instead? Reduced thread, machined nut, I can only imagine what this cost. But FYI airliner engines are held on with two bolts, so if one of those fail then figurative crap really hits the literal fan!
@@paulmoir4452 CFM and v2500 engines have five mount bolts up front and four in the rear. They are all over an inch in diameter. I struggle with a four foot torque wrench to torque them.
See, I think after we learn how things work, we begin to regress in a way. We start taking it apart to see how it broke! After we get our giggles out, then we start to fix it.
Too often we see how others failed at solving a problem and yes....made things worse. The Mustie types come along to fix the screw ups and then go after the original problem. Happens in my world every day.
@@gispel7058 Hard trying to solve a problem with somebody else having their fingers in it. had a chevy cruze (ew) 1.4T car, misfire all over, everything looked ok ish. After we were doing some testing ect, had it running, full on oil, Turbo started just making awful noises. Long story short, they did horrible oil changes, clogged the turbo oil feed, the son put a used turbo on it, not changing the line, breaking the drain line, and then came to us for a missfire. So DIY gone wrong, aswell as poor maintenance.
@@baileyhatfield4273 Its a problem alright. I don't work on cars and engines but I do mechanical work. Glad you were able to look at your problem and back track what the heck went wrong.
I'm going to guess it has something to do with the unbalanced (otherwise) magnet on the flywheel. Overly complicated POS if you ask me. Not only that, but there's cut corners everywhere you look. Thin case, no hardened surfaces against gravity effects (the part that Mustie was showing that got munched in the crank case), there's clearly no oil ramp, and this relies on other means to get lubricated... If i were to bet, i'd bet this engine started life as a vertical engine, then some smartass in the cost cutting department decided to swap it to horizontal, with the required modifications, to which there's no issue, it can be done, but if you do it whilst nursing your thumb with your .... it won't last. And a cursory glance on google for this engine proves my point. This engine platform is riddled with problems, from cracking to spun bearings and other stuff. What a piece of junk.
@@aserta buddy...this is a vertical lol. The counterbalance is meant to oppose the vibrations created by a single cylinder’s piston oscillating up and down. Now most single cylinders just use a balance shaft including newer Kohler. The piece that was chewed inside was likely an oil baffle to avoid the foaming of the oil around the governor gear.
@@joshuaolsen8844 Oh jeez, and a bushing for the counterweight is completely inappropriate for the side loading that occurs in that orientation. It will always be pinching on the bottom/piston edge and top/counterweight sides because of gravity pulling it downward.
Hey, I want to thank you for all the helpful videos. I retired and moved to Northwest Arkansas in the deep Ozarks. It's pretty much just my wife and me. Since I found your channel I have been able to work on my own small engine equipment. I can even help neighbors. It's been very rewarding. Thank you.
I'm sitting here on a sunday morning and watching LSI (lawnmower scene investgations) and I couldn't ask for anything better. The way you look and diagnose what went wrong with that Toro was nothing short of amazing. And I always enjoy watching a master at work. Love your stuff and keep up the good work.
Thanks Mustie for inviting all of us into your little operating theatre. First time I've seen you do "major surgery" on a riding mower engine like this. Even though it eventually turned out to be just an "autopsy" it was still very interesting to see what "killed" this fine specimen.
My neighbor gave me a honda push mower that was locked up. I soaked the cylinder with pb blaster and have been using it for 4 years. Love the videos musty. You have really increased the depths I'm willing to go before I give up on equipment. Thanks 😊
Such an inspirational & educational channel, & yet a minority still give a thumbs down. Those people need to go back to bed, have coffee or sit in a bowl of rice or something!!
You can pretty much guarantee that they are the sort of useless people that have nothing to offer so just want to whine about something. None of them will have spent any time making videos to try to help or entertain others and they cannot understand the distinction between not liking something and disliking something. Not one of them will have left a comment explaining why they did not like the video so it says more about them than it does the video.
Those are the people that think lawn mowers are Porsche’s and Mercedes and over think what needs to be done yea he is off the cuff mechanic but he knows how to make things work when they do not . Taryl said it best “it is not the space shuttle it cuts lawns”
Those thumbers downers are probably people hoping for a fix on their own and it didn't help them. So much negativity around but mustie1 just blasts it away as always.
Makes me glad my Toro has a B&S motor. Only issue I've had is with the decompressor. If the valve clearances are a bit too big the decompressor doesn't work and the starter struggles to turn the engine over. I bet many people have replaced batteries or starters only to find that all it needs is the valves adjusting.
Mustie's enthusiasm is admirable. I'd be like "Crap, guess I gotta take this darn thing apart..." Mustie is "Cool! I get to take this apart and find out what's wrong!" 😁
@@garymallard4699 Nope. Accurately diagnosing the problem, like he did, is the real talent. Then a reasonable assessment of whether it's worthwhile to repair, considering costs vs returns must be made. He didn't just "tear it apart", he methodically followed the evidence to find the root of the problem. If you don't like how he does his videos, make your own.
@@garymallard4699 who cares? Mustie did a great video, guiding us through the discover process of finding the problem. You come along with some punk comment about all he did was tear it down, which is easy. You missed the point of the video and took the opportunity to brag for no reason at all. Go away.
There is a huge emotional difference between "Lets take apart this mower to see what happened." and "My mower died now I have to fix it before I can get back to mowing." The first is a fun exploration the second is compounding work and can quickly get exhausting.
I have owned a mower with this engine for the past 8 years and have had no issues due to regular maintenance. One day while going over the mower I noticed all the top cover bolts have come slightly loose most notably the ones near the back where the locating thing that that screw screws into and is located in the top case. I think what you said about the bolt failing and working loose is true, but I think the reason said bolt was able to work loose was because of warpage or looseness of the top cover where that silver locating thing sits in the case. Fingers crossed mine keeps going haha.
Good show, Moe. The sinister laugh at the end when putting the crank back in with "Up Next. Will it run?" is cliffhanger material all day long. Hysterical and surely has us wondering how bad it will be and how long it will last!
I have the popcorn ready for the microwave and time on my hands bring it on destruction here we come. Will he do it oh yes he ran the twin cylinder with one piston and jug let’s start the pool for how log it lasts. Edit: I give the engine 2 minutes 29 seconds before it locks up.
Well I was looking for boat hull restore info and I find this vid that has nothing to do with boats. Well I have lawn stuff for parts or repair. So i find myself riveted to this video and here is why. I hate videos that sensationalize, monologue to much or can't hold the camera still or drown out the sound with some crazy too loud background music. Also hate that lots of vids have no point or just don't know anything but brag about themselves.. So this guy does an informative video that completely makes true sense of things right before your eyes and ears. So well informed, so thorough, so comfortable and easy to watch. Answers so many questions and makes you feel like your at your friends shop helping him figure out what happened. So now I am informed, learned plenty and gave mustie1 a thumbs up and subscribed. Mustie 1 should be teaching tech schools. He doesn't brag so I thought I would do that for him as in reality it should be. Give credit where it's due and dont brag. Put it in your resume'. Thank you Mustie 1.
@@garymallard4699 nice! I got a few at the moment, from 60s-90s, but simplicitys and a snapper LT12, either got em all for free or under $85. Like you said, fun to just revive them, trying to figure out this valve tick on a briggs cast 10hp, need to replace the valves and then might need rings. Fun to learn on. Those Ropers are great tractors from what I've seen
@@garymallard4699 nice! That sounds kinda like the attachments I'd like to have, but realistically don't use as much as I wish. The loader would be super handy though and zero turns are quite a bit faster, I guess overall a few mph to 10mph faster and turning. And yeah most cases with things I get free in the garbage is bad fuel/car or safety switch/no spark. Most my garden tractors were rode wet and put away hard though lol
The landlords toro 16 hp engine. blew open like boom! A filter oil pumper. I replaced it with an old eternal briggs and stratton 14.5 hp! Re did guides and bolt holes. It has been 5 years. Frequent oil changes. The oil splasher works just fine! The deck is spindle bearing flopping. The new 42 inch 19 hp John deere is getting the most work now. I added a longer filter. Lots smoother ride with tight turns. Very fast forward and back!
I'm a dedicated viewer as I learn SOOOO much watching your various challenges, diagnoses, and solutions. Apart from your mechanical understanding of engines (of all types), you include a strong understanding of the physics at play in engines. I'm curious, are you self taught? Hoping you might give us some insight into how you garnered such a deep knowledge of these things. Also, you uniquely speak to us as though we're there in your shop, further immersing your viewers in the process. No wonder you have a half million followers. THANKS!
Mustie is like that neighborhood dad, always willing to lend a hand to anyone willing to learn. Show your interest and he'll teach you anything you want to try.
Just wanted to say thanks for all the information on small engines. Just helped my friend with a Kawasaki 15 HP twin with a bent push rod. Straightened it out, put it back, adjusted the valves and it LIVES...lol...never would have tried that without watching you. Keep em coming to Walkertown NC.
What surprises me is the engineers would have to have known that bolt was completely wrong for the counter-weights. Yet, here we are. A more unusual reason for engine death we've seen on your channel. Much enjoyment derived. Thanks, Mustie1!
I think it's much worse than just the bolt. Think of the bearing side loads from the counterweight being pulled down by gravity. This sucker was never intended to be run horizontally.
I have a feeling that the pin holding the counter weight was tested during the design phase in CAD and tested to pass the forces but not fatigue. It does look to be on the small side.
On my tractor was running hot from years of no maintenance. Find packed with dirt and grease and black as night oil from never being changed, just added to, was super hard to get started. Piston wasn’t getting lubrication and carbon pieces were causing it to rub and even get stuck at times in the case. Cleaned it all out and reassembled. Runs like a champ now. Didn’t need any parts or valve adjustments
I have an Ariens mower with the same engine and the counter balance came apart. It was at idle and came through the side of the block. I replaced it with a Predator 708
@@1988MowerMan I was trying to repair oil leaks on my tecumseh 12hp on my riding mower. I pull the repair manual by the id code. Its a "long life" engine. it was made over 30 years ago and still runs. I was amazed to find I could get the entire gasket and o-ring kit for it. Oil leaks fixed, still cutting grass.
I absolutely love all your videos Mustie. I have learned so much about the functionality of anything mechanical to tool use. My hobby is restoring mowers, weed eaters, and pretty much anything mechanical much like you. I was wondering how/where to send you a thank you package. I’ve had some hard life challenges and your videos have gotten me through them. Please PM me to where I can mail you some thank you items. You’ve inspired me to track down the moped I used to have and start restoring it. Thanks again Mustie you ROCK!
Your videos are never long winded...always very informed and n depth...no one else would go into detail like you..ty very much for what you do and how you do it...never change your style or videos..
I, personally, like how He talks to us, just as if we were actually there with Him! He's a naturally born teacher! He is patient and takes the time to delve into something, with an inqusitive nature, and is always figuring on repair and riding it around the property a while, to check it out and give us a thrill ride!
Good job, I'm hooked....I've been taking apart and most of the time putting together all my life.....I still push myself to do all of my own work [I just turned 72]........but the satisfaction of [gettin it fixed] is a great feeling...........I can hear your amusement when you [hear it run].........you've got a great personality thanks a lot for the intertainment.
Kohler really made a turd when they came out with that engine! The Courage twin was pretty good, but I shortblocked a ton of the singles under warranty because the cam boss in the bottom would crack and lose all the oil while running and BAM! thrown rod! Compression release was problematic too. 99% JUNK!
When it was low on oil, the oil was in the moving parts, and there was no oil for the pump to pick up. After it locked up, the oil drained back down, so it looks like it had oil in the case. I've run Kohlers for decades, and never had one problem. BUT, I always check my oil before using, and NEVER run it if oil level is low. Even my 1995 Kohler Magnum 18hp opposed twin still is solid as a rock. All the damage is from "Lack of Oil". I'm 77, and have never had one engine go bad. I've raced bikes, boats, cars with no engine problems.
Funny, I've got an old (1980s) Ford LT12 lawn tractor that had a similar issue. The counterweight in those is free moving just like this one, but in another level of complication it actually has a gudgeon and it's own little connecting rod that ties it to the crank rotation. Someone was mowing our lawn and ran it into a stack of pallets and it just stopped dead. I could spin the motor over but it sounded just like that did when you spun it over. Broke the motor down and it had blown that little connecting rod for the counterweight into 15 pieces. Managed to find a scrap counterweight with the connecting rod attached and got it running again. Still mowing happily and that was 3 or 4 years ago now. Cheers from the east coast of Canada!
You're like me, I still have T-shirts from concerts 25 years ago. I mention it because I saw yours was 14 years old. Mine have weld spatter holes and stains and caulk and epoxy but I still consider them valid work shirts!
Its a common problem. The bolt sheared holding the counter balance together. That allowed the 2 balance parts to separate and gradually eat the bearing out of the balance weight on the bottom. The crank is done along with mating parts. you can see severe wear on the inside of the balance halves.
it's amazing how he could pull things apart & remember how they go back together i see mustie as a teacher in a trade school he's that amazing as a matter of fact i watch his vids over n over again he's so amazing
Good video, start to finish. I've learned avoid YT videos with AMAZING, GENIUS, and YOU WON"T BELIEVE titles. I'm glad I made an exception on this one.
The best instructional video I have ever watched but at 74 years old,there is no way I want to fix mine with the same issue,just too much work,I am selling my 20 year old lt1000 for parts at $200 and call it a day and hire a landscaper or get a goat,or one of those robot cutters.Thanks
What a weird internal set up on that engine. You'd think standard counter weights would be fine but there you go, a whole motor wrecked after that one bolt snapped. If that bolt hadn't broken the next wear item would be that locator cam/slider thing. This is why Briggs & Stratton engines are as simple as they are.
ohio yoder toter ... Oh yes! Today's TV and print "news" is so messed up with "reporting their self-righteous opinions" instead, its not worth our consideration.
I believe I saw what we called in the Air Force "military engineering" which basically translates to " if it don't fit, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway " lol. I love watching these break down, I hope you repair it.
That's what it was in some parts of automotive too O_O if it didn't wanna come out easy, torch and BFH. Some stupid things like sway bar links, things are getting replaced anyways, the nut won't come off decent? Torch it. Gives a rookie like me some uh...experience with the torch.
We have a twin of this Toro. Fingers crossed we don't experience this failure. I had to "re-engineer" the deck and pullies in an attempt to get it to quit eat belts. Nice detailed teardown.
Always a fun synopsis. The force of gravity allowed the lower side to drop and get out of alignment every time the motor was stopped and restarted. The upper would remain flush on the bearing surface. Look forward to the rebuild/re-power.
I’m a small engine mechanic and Kohler courage is our very notorious for blowing due to the counterbalance or they develop a leak and you just don’t know and then they end up throwing a rod or throw in the balancer
thats great to hear, ive got a craftsman riding mower with the 21 HP vTwin kohler courage engine, its 15 years old at this point, and well who knows it runs like a champ and i do keep maintenance on it, and its been a (pun inserted here -courageous) engine but from the sounds of it the courage engines tend to go boom boom often.
@@bigtomato6057 The only failures mine has had was a carburetor needle failure causing engine flooding, coil failure and charging system fault, which it still has since it only affects starting and the engine still runs just fine, none of my seals have gone and as far as i can tell the internal components are just fine. Even if my engine dies tomorrow though, its lasted 15 years so honestly i would say its had a fine run.
These things are still very reliable with a few easy precautions. Checking the oil before starting ensures oil starvation issues are prevented and adding loctite to those crankcase bolts prevents them from backing out
My father actually bought the bigger brother of the LX 420, the LX 500 way back in 2006. The Kohler Courage 22 V-Twin engine is still running great after all those years, never gave him any trouble.
When I recently purchased a secondhand ride-on, the first thing I noticed was a lot of Koehler motors that had died on the ones advertised. All had counterweight issues that had let go and in most cases cracked the crankcase. I think you were lucky that it stopped without writing off the engine. Ended up with a Briggs and Stratton engine and runs like a dream.
Koehler's are JUNK motors, poor engineering. Can't beat a Briggs. Worse case scenario in the Briggs 14-17 HP single-lungers is a Head Gasket. (also poor design, but a fairly easy repair) I've had 2 riders given to me with Blown H/gasket motors & repaired them & STILL have them MANY years later.
Kohler Courage engines are junk. Old Command single cylinder engines were virtually bulletproof. The newer 7000 series Kohler is better than Briggs and Stratton but not Kawasaki reliable.
Your presentations are amazing Mustie ! The humour stands your channel well apart from others out there and we can relate to your findings as though in person. In truth i think we all watch for your trademark phrases lol.. "think it's got spark..." "think it'll run" ... "well that ain't good" ... and then .. there is the laugh! You Sir.. are an entertainer and a joy to watch with your tear down and repairs. Here's to the next video and thank you so much for sharing
It was amusing watching you stand there and repeatedly try to turn the engine over by hand trying to figure out what was the matter. Reminded me of someone who gets an unexpected letter in the mail and spends 10 minutes trying to figure out who sent it or what they want instead of just opening it.
Just remember that the bottom of the case where the crank rides is severely scored/chewed up. The case is ruined, there is no fixing that. Even if that case damage were filed down and cleaned up, the tolerances would be way off. I'm sure he could get it running again, but it wouldn't run for very long.
In my limited experience of Kohler Command engines I think your pretty close to the sequence of events. The engineering involved to make sure a lower bearing fails is pretty impressive as it seems very common for balancer or lower main bearing to seize. (although in this case it was the long bolt holding balancer together) I'm pretty sure there would have been an increase in vibration before failure. The starter gear looks new, seems that the starter motor fails very shortly before bearing failure.
Oh if Kohler only would reproduce the old Command series of engines. I had to make the move to Kawasaki once the Courage line made its debut. Love my Kawi's as long as you keep them oiled and the valves adjusted.
I Think That's What I'm going To go With On My Husqvarna MZT-61. It has A 30 HP Briggs Motor and The Sump Will just not Seal. Briggs Came Out With A Updated Sump but I kept My Hours Down. Only 150 Hour's. Briggs And Stratton Went Bankrupt Because of Things like This. And Kohler Isn't Much better.
We own an LX420 with the Kohler. Manufactured in Mar 2006. Currently May 2021. Have not used it very often in the last five years, because we have some local guys to do our lawn every other week except not at all in the winter. We use it mostly to sweep up pine cones and pine straw. So far so good. But if it quits running now I’ll have a really good idea why. I’ll probably take it apart just to verify. I was surprised how many parts are simply press-fit.
My wife,the 4th grade teacher, says "perpendicular" would cross each other and therefore could touch. "Parallel" is the word you want because they are equal distance apart and never touch.
Too complicated, too many moving parts. I love my old Wisconsin AGND. It has a piston, a crank, a crankshaft and a bit of junk to run the valves. That's it. It vibrates and rattles and has been running without an issue since 1954. BTW, I was able to get a Honda HDR running after it sat all winter with gas (and water) in the tank and carb. I knew how to do it because Mustie taught me! My lady was mightily impressed. LOL
People rag on me for sticking to briggs flatheads, but they’re just so much more reliable. May only make 5 horses but it’ll do it for longer than most marriages last.
Now retired after 50 years working on garden machines I have seen this problem many times,counter weight bolt failure,most problems start with not looking after engine oil and the only way to fix the problem is to replace engine.repaired engine’s did not last,in my working life time where I live Briggs+Stratton where the engines most used along with Aspera and Tec.Nice to see a old hand working.
You’ve got to love wrenching vicariously through Mustie, and maintain clean oil free hands, thank you for allowing us to be there with you whilst you do autopsies on stuff 👍
Kohler 🤦 used to be a tough motor, only behind Onan & Wisconsin. Now handily surpassed by Predator. Sad times we're in. Another great adventure Darren 🍻 I think your diagnosis is spot-on. I know those things like to eat those plastic cam gears too.
I was fascinated by the engineering of that engine, until you showed us where it had broken apart. Imagine; two heavy counterweights, oscillating at high rpm, held together by a 1/4 inch bolt. Somebody dropped the ball, or tried to save a buck. What a shame. Also, I noticed two separate cams operating pushrods on either side of the cylinder? Bizarre!
My guess is the governor let go fell down and the parts pushed on the weights and caused the bolt to stretch and break. Both the same outcome. Thanks for another awesome video!
Thanks for the in depth look at Kohler Courage. They just fell of the list of devices I want to own. I respectfully submit that you might have missed two issues. 1. The counter weight would have been 180 degrees away from the rod bearing. You show them both on one side. 2. There is some mechanism to push the valve off the seat for compression relief, which may be part of the reason for moving counter balances. I am no expert but I suspect these engines are built like the old Brit sports cars: if one part will do (solid crank balance) then 8 parts must be better ( 2 counter weights, 2 bearings, bolt, nut, spacer, cam dohikky) . Same result: fewer hours of Mean Time Before Failure. The culprit is needing way more HP from a one cylinder engine so Brigs and Kohler need compression relief gizmos to turn over and start. They should have used a simple push button, like Stihl, on the head, without all that flying mass and parts that become grapeshot at failure.
Today is Tue 5/11/21. I walked into a shop in our town, the owner had a small engine block sitting on the counter. It looks just like the one you are working on in this video. Koehler? I was told that there is an imbalance in one of the shafts. They corrected the problem, and are willing to replace any that are still out there with a new short block.
At 2:06 my guess is the low oil safety switch shut it down. Lets continue the show to see if im right. Edit: well i missed that by a mile. Maybe next time.
Yea that govonor gear was mangled pretty bad I am surprise from manufacturing they did not just weld those weights together I am also assuming the bolt was loose to begin with and not tight I or not meant to be tight . Here is another interesting thing with the weights mounted sideways how are they going to balance a sideway’s force the weight would be working against the bottom of the crank if you know what I mean .
Excellent video Mustie 1 :) also must be common problems with Kohler 18 or 19 hp motor also my 2008 Toro Lawn Tractor with 19 hp Kohler Courage type ,48 inch cut bed with Foot pedal for for Automatic transmission go forward also middle in Neutral, back Reverse, plus Brake pedal near too plus had Cruise Control to lock pedal go forward or backwards and nice machine! But on last Monday afternoon was cut grass also put fuel plus also nice new engine oil plus oil filter also fuel filter also air filters to , put fuel in too also brand new battery too needed and 3/4 done also got big bang shut motor down completely still turn over fine on crank over and found no oil leaks too get everything okay plus check fuse in under seat it fine and but transmission on left wheel lock up like clock and right one turn okay back wheels! So tried everything can and guess new ride lawn tractor going be pay for soon! But want know should ride tractor have use Synthetic or Conventional engine oil in motor what best you find ! I prefer Conventional over Synthetic oil because the strong protection and last long time too!
