Thank you so much . I have a small room so I can roll off my subs and use these transducers to extend the feel somewhat . Great idea and look forward , if possible , how you fit and set these up .
Those are cool and I'm interested in what you think of them after some evaluation. My seats came with SoundShaker tactile transducers factory installed. I'm thinking of using a class D amp like the Fosi V3 from my AVR sub outs to power them. Any thoughts or experience on wattage requirements. Not expecting them to vibrate violently either 😂
Beating the room up is a good word for it. I mean my room is super stout, but, nearly every room gets rattles once you get down into those sub 20Hz frequencies, it really hits the fundamentals of building materials. That said, I always found that tactile transducers a little artificial...
@@hometheatergurus I think it's also just preference. A lot of things in movies that have bass, imo, shouldn't actually "shake" my seat. Like John Wick slamming a hammer on concrete, shouldn't rock my seat. Even with gun shots the ground and surfaces generally aren't shaking, it's all through the air. So, to me, it's more natural just to have the subs do it - that sounds more realistic to me even if it isn't as intense. Where I do understand the transducers is for people living in apartments and stuff or trying to keep it down because the kids are sleeping. When kept low they can give a bass effect that is okay enough. But, that's really just my preference, I mean you've probably seen the guys on AVSForum doing those crazy "hoverboss" platforms and stuff lol, that's just silly to me but whatever floats their boat.
@@commanderrussels2612 you can adjust their filter but those scenes, John wick sledge and gun shots, if you have the subs dialed in correctly those scenes have a massive amount of tactile energy that will shake the seats. That sledge scene a should shake your room violently even at - 10. But yeah on concrete you get less of that of course. I'm a fan of natural feeling as well and agree on the Hoover boss. Those videos of the seats shaking up and down aren't what I'm after. It would be fun but I don't wanna be pulled out of the content.
Problem is that you can’t bypass Audyssey on the input. I used what I used to EQ my subs flat in rew so Audyssey wouldn’t have to do much and then adjust after the fact with a house curve so I believe my flat curve mixed with Audyssey on the buttkickers aren’t adjusting too much.
The newer units from D/M are being released with a tactile transducer output. So no room eq is on that output. Also you can use a minidsp to align your subs, show the avr one sub out. Then after you're done (assuming it's an independent sub 2 out) turn sub 2 on and it has no correction on it. I do this on my Anthem.
@@hometheatergurus Does this work on D&M AVRs (before the newest models)? I though it wasn't possible but happy to be wrong. I thought with Audy if you change speaker config it disables Audy until you re-run it. I time align with minidsp but EQ my 2 subs with Multeq-x (single sub out to minidsp) so getting a flat signal to my Crowsons is an issue. I was planning to record a loopback measurement from the USB output of my minidsp into REW and then generate filters to "undo" Audy but haven't gotten to it yet. I know I could just do sub EQ in the minidsp but I already have a good result from Audy so was hoping to avoid that.
I tried it and if you enable sub out 2 after first running Audy with a single sub out Audy gets disabled so you can't do this. I found some older posts on AVS that some did this with older Onkyo units that had Audy but doesn't seem to work on D&M units.
Some of The new d/m units have a tactile transducers output. Beyond that you'd need for follow eq 7, get the sub a aligned and eq'd flat prior to room correction. If that's done room correction isn't applying much eq at all.
Placement is everything and it can mess up your seat to seat consistency. See ep 11 on room modes. Subs should go where they fix issues and give a similar seat to seat consistency. That isn't always where we want them to be.
Looking forward to your review. I actually just installed the Crowson motion 3 kit for our front row of 4 recliners this past weekend. Our relatively new basement theater is on concrete so was missing a lot of the infrasonic TR I used to get on a suspended wood floor in our living room. These are fantastic. Once you get them blended well with subs they feel like a natural extension. I love them.
as the amp just needs a signal via RCA cable, yeah you could do that if the amp was located with the seats. It would add delay so that would be a bit more of a fuss to get them back aligned to feel right.
I wish tactile transducers had a lower cut-off frequency than 40 hz. So if a subwoofer goes down to 20 hz, I could set the cut-off frequency of the transducer to 20 hz so it only plays frequencies that the sub can't.
I love my AuraSound AST-2B-4 Pro Bass Shaker Tactile Transducer I installed 2 on my mine view sofa for my home theater , I have 4 Klipsch 12 inches subwoofer and the presence is noticeable when I watch a movie like Transformers , but after install the transducers oh my gosh heaven came to my Home Theater media room , give yourself a favor , stop to get lazy and install this think in your main seat or others seats also , you wont regret and never ever you will watch a movie without this piece of heaven😍😍
As far as time delay, I would be interested in how you account for the actual construction of the seat, the Crowsons are being used on. I myself use 2 Crowsons on a 96” couch, which gives plenty of impact, in my opinion. The couch is built to be comfortable so it is very cushy. There is a minimal delay that I believe is just the time it takes to transfer through the construction to your body. Seems there would need to be a set of specific test tones to get the feel perfectly aligned. * Do we really want the thump we feel to be instantaneous to the action on the screen, be the brain knows there should be some delay before the thump hits your bodies?…which makes the experience better?
I do have a video with a 45hz bump that will be released on an upcoming video. It's really hard to tell unless you're really off in timing but it can be used to make adjustments. You want the bump to be in timing with the subs as we want these to work with the sub in time and energy.
@hometheatergurus --- Does this take up available channels from receiver/amplifier? Does this amplifier only power four actuators? Is it four per person?
@@antiWhiteism777 See ep 53 as i cover all of that and show my install. For these you need one per chair with isolators. How many the amp can push depends on the amp and how you wire the actuators/transducers.
Like always thank you for the awesome content I look forward to it ! I also took your advice from our video chat, and got myself a set of bass transducers 💪🏻
Still doing another video on Crowsons and config/tweaking? I'm on the waiting list for Crowson however I'm debating if I'd get better performance and cost effective with buttkicker LFEs in my front row Valencia Tuscany's (3). I'm getting a little shake here and there from the 4 subs (2 x 15"s & 2 x 10"s) I have in a small 16 x 22 converted walk-in attic (raised floor). I get great tactile bass in there, but I'd like to experience more in the low frequencies with the actuators or transducers. Thanks!
Is that a Beltsquat I see behind you? Sorry for not being on subject but I don't see the beltsquat inhouse many places so that was unexpected. Crowsons seems like a must have for sure. Love Home Theater and the Beltsquat:)
I'd say tactile transducers are a must. The Crowson is a "if you have the money and want them go for it". For many the extra 10 percent or so improvement over the cheaper options isn't worth it. But.. If you want the best tactile transducers out there.. IMO I'd say these are it. And yeah that's a bells of steel belt squat. I have a jacked up back and have for decades. The belt squat has been fantastic at saving my back.
As a European resident - and Crowson not really responding to what I've tried shy of calling them (veeery late local time) - does anyone know of any EU distributer?
Still like my 4 auro pro's, but the Crowsons are on my upgrade list!. Great stuff, the best upgrades ever!. Movies become real intense with transducers / shakers set up right. Must own!!
Absolutely love my Crowsons! They are a game changer and I'd never build a theater without them, or some form of tactile response, like you said. Excited to see how you set them up, especially with the miniDSP, to see how it compares to what I've done.
I'm on joists (there's a basement below my theater), and my 4 x 18" subs are doing some infrasonic now. If I add these, they're gonna be a pain in the butt to setup and sync up; all tactile transducers are, so this doesn't seem like the product for me.
They're actually quite easy to setup and sync up. You have to be way off in timing to have an issue and with a test tone on repeat, it's easy to fix in under a minute. You can have 100 subs and they will not do what these do which is give a tactile response at all levels and one that you can control and dial in to perfection.
@@hometheatergurus I understand what you're saying, but then it also doesn't make sense. Tactile transducers are shaking your seat right? So if you have a sub on the same platform also shaking your seat, what's different from that and a device under the legs? Is it just more specific to the seat or you can reduce sub "boominess"? What am I missing?
I used to live in a small 2br apartment long time ago, had a 5.1 dts setup with the dayton 12" powered sub, i put a 4 pack of the dayton transducers in my couch powered off a 50w plate amp i pulled out of an old KLH sub and OMG!! Best $50 i ever spent in my life! Playin COD was AWESOME! The stealth doing a bomb run across the map would shake the remotes off the couch if you wanted it to.
nope. Just get these if money is no issue as yeah they do have an advantage over the standard ones i've had experience with. But as they do the same thing.. add a tactile experience to the actual seat.. you don't need both.
Isnt this just shaking the chair instead of giving you the pressure wave in your chest like a sub does? Why not go for a near field sub instead for the price? Thanks
This is adding a tactile experience at all levels. Near field subs can be great but if you properly place subs and seats for a similar seat to seat response, adding a sub nearfield will impact the seat to seat response and hurt the overall performance of the bass. As tactile transducers aren't creating acoustic energy they will not hurt the seat to seat response nor the positive summation of properly placed and aligned subs.
What's the proper way to get the LFE to the Crowsons? I'm assuming if your processor does some form of eq/room correction, you wouldn't want those adjustments to be sent to your crowsons since they are felt, not heard and measured acoustically. The adjustments that would make sub frequencies measure flat or follow a target curve likely wouldn't translate well to the actuators.
Hi Home Theater Gurus. Amazing and inspirational videos. Perhaps you could address the following question. I also have 4 seats of Valencia Tuscany with a loveseat in the middle. I have the space to move my couch a couple of feet to both sides and I am therefore curious as to - when doing the speaker angle calculations - what I should consider my MLP to be; that is: a) My own (love)seat (One will have en amazing experience, at the expense of the other loveseat), or b) The middle of the two loveseats (both will have an equal great experience, but no seat is "perfect"). I am alone 50-60% of the time. Question: Is it worth sacrificing "the perfect spot" (going with scenario b) or would I be missing out on amazing things compared to scenario a? Can you even tell the difference? Kind regards from Denmark!
Hey Morten, the MLP should be your seat. If the love seat is centered use the spot between the two seats as that would place a head 1' on each side of that point essentially giving you two MLPs.
Looking forward to the install and setup / tuning video for this..quite curious. I moved from a dedicated HT, qnd since installed a near field 12" sub 2ft behind MLP, not sure if it'd benefit to duts off and add the Dayton BST1 I still have from my last HT setup.. depends on your thoughts/ install method etc. Thanks!
Nearfield is awesome you just have to be careful as it can mess up the seat to seat consistency of the sub response as it is a source of low frequencies that may not play well with the other sub locations.
It's a wood screw but the seat is applying downward force so no you'd not have an issue. I've had wood screws holding tactile transducers plates on for years and years in the past and never had any issues. And those actually have force against the screw.
Just laughing to myself .. because the anal amongst us will inform you that different leg length , density of wood or alloy or steel etc will obviously transmit differently and one is better than the other and then there is what you are sitting upon is favourable .. wooden , concrete , tile .. just waffling .
Great content! I like your explanations and your teaching style but did you record this with a potato? Even if it just your iPhone bought in the past 2yrs, the camera on that would be better than what's currently being used. I'm not at all trying to be mean or hateful or rude. But it's holding back people from subbing to your content. I'm considering unsubbing because of this very issue.
ha.. I'm not out to make videos for Hollywood. It's a Cannon M50. I'd like to think the content has enough value that people don't care if the video isn't perfect. If you'd like to donate a better camera and lens email me (info in the video description) and i'll give you my shipping address.
@@hometheatergurus Steven, perfect reply. I LOVE your videos and they have helped me tremendously while building my Home Theater. You are my "Go to" guy. Best Potato ever? Portal 2.
Great video. I have a question Im not ready to spend Crowson money but I dont want to go too cheap. What are your thoughts on the Buttkicker LFE's? They are within my budget for now
I haven't had those so I can't say. I will say the Dayton BST-1 had more output than I wanted and had to be dialed back to feel natural. With standard shakers as you spend more you "should" get more extension down low, that IMO is what's important if you're spending more. You don't need more shaking.. IMO. Now the Crowson are different in that they are actuators so they lift the entire seat... so it feels a tad different. But as far as standard shaker tech goes... you don't need the extra force the more expensive ones offer. You likely won't even use most of the force of the cheaper options.
@@hometheatergurus hey thanks for the feedback they offer several models so that helps me with my decisions like you said the biggest most expensive may not be the best option after all. Thanks for the help!
