Zepla talks about JP server Culture and Cross Data Center travel 

I’ve played on Tonberry (Elemental) for many years now and JP-style etiquette has been pretty deeply ingrained into how I play in general. I’ve also found that JP players are generally more polite, and are especially happy when a foreigner attempts communication in their language- even if it’s just google translate copypasta. I’ve even gotten some Japanese /t’s from people recognising my art or thanking me for talking! I’ve also picked up a lot of common phrases and took the time to learn hiragana and katakana so I can read a little, too. I’ve also seen my fair share of JP ragequits so it really goes both ways. They’re fairly similar to us. I’ll be jumping ship to OCE because I want to help build the community over there, and I hope a lot of JP server etiquette transfers over! I’m going to miss Tonberry a lot, especially my beachfront cottage in Mist ;-;. Hopefully its next owner loves it as much as I did!

As an Australian playing on JPN DC. I get the feeling that the people most excited about Aussies moving to the OCE DC are the Japanese players XD

Elemental Atomos here, absolutely everything said is true. Also, people in JP DC generally have "shame" in being bad. You don't want to stand out, specially when you're bad. Eureka/BA is also very, VERY active here in JP DC. We go clear it anytime we have downtimes between patches. Proto-Ozma never catches a break.

I play in Carbuncle Elemental, I have shit internet and I can confirm that people will wait 10 minutes after you DC. JP players are very patient and understanding, I cant remember how many times I feel really bad about making the rest of the party wait. The most recent example was me constantly getting 0/0 sending/receiving with extreme lag spikes in the dungeon leading up to lv89 trial and the party just basically carried me through it with the 3 of them. I havent really tried the PF because im not that into raiding (yet) but everything else in that post is true.

Oceanic player on Tonberry (Elemental) here. JP is very much a tale of two halves. All the talk of politeness, the common PF strats and the expectation you know what to do, the

I lived in Japan for 8 years and have many Chinese and Japanese friends, and I play on a Japanese server. The differences in play-style are spot-on, though I do not necessarily agree with the author's opinion on the *reason* for these differences. Chinese and Koreans don't have trouble standing out: it's the Japanese who do not want to stand out; so it's not an Asian thing, it's a Japanese thing; or, at the very least, it's not something common to *all* Asians. What I can tell you is that yes, there is tension between Japanese and Chinese players; also, depending on the data center, there tends to be different attitudes towards foreigners. The one I'm on, Elemental, is full of foreigners, both from mainland Asia and Oceania. If you're on Elemental, it's likely you either don't mind playing with foreigners or you don't mind that they're there (even if you don't play with them). Mana and Gaia, on the other hand, are said to be less foreigner-friendly. I'll add, though, that a lot of the reticence in playing with foreigners has more to do with communication issues than anything else. They don't *ask* for Japanese players, they ask for Japanese *speakers.* So, if they implemented cross region travel, most likely no one from Japan would visit NA data servers EXCEPT those who are into screen shots & stuff; but. If people from NA visit the JP Data Center and behave as described in the dragon cartoon, then yes, it would be *bad.*

FFXI was basically one culture mashup on most servers and it's remembered for having a great community. Given, FFXIV doesn't have the bonding style as XI did and it's a different era of gaming than it was back then. I still think we should give the region visits a chance.

I can confirm what Zepla said about being sociable in dungeons getting you commendations, at least in EU. I could be BLM and if I'm being welcoming and supportive I will get way more commendations than being a silent tank/healer. People love making connections in EU, they are just scared to reach out and start talking so I highly recommend being that person who starts a conversation

it's quite accurate on some points especially the last one, it builds in me and i'm an asian from South East Asia, it builds in. it's hard to praise something unless you are doing godly good because when you do good or okay everyone think this way even me "Thats how it works, everyone can do that and everyone should do that as well." i felt it too when i was first time arrived in EU and NA data center, people are easy at throwing praise and acknowledgement over small thing people do good at it, it's refreshing and kind of cultural shock for me in a good way.

It's funny because in NA everyone seems super chill about people who are bad, as long as they're not sinking the party. I've literally never seen a kick.

"Failure is a shared responsibility." I think it refers to the community mindset JP has culturally. Because, everyone knows, they cannot make a whole group responsible for the failures of a signle person. However, they DO feel responsible in the case, that everyone could have seen this coming/mayhap prevent it or helped the individual in question better themselves.

My first dungeon (Sastasha, obv) we lost the tank and no one knew how to queue for a new member, so I tanked the dungeon as a Lancer. I had no idea the Tank might eventually log back in to a cleared dungeon, but that's pretty hilarious.

I'm an interpreter in Japan, and play with my all-western FC on Mana, Ixion. We have only ever had 2 blatantly racist situations over like 4 years, and those individuals had been dealt with by the devs. They were definitely exceptions to the otherwise kind (yet quiet) Japanese community. The language barrier isn't a major problem for prog since I act as a go-between for both parties, relaying info back and forth. However, I do know that my FC rarely does prog if I am not around to help. Auto-translate can only do so much, sadly, and it's very clunky to chat w/ so many console players. PF descriptions are amazing on JP servers, as it basically describes what strats are being used, and if people have/need macros & markers. The only downside is that there are a ton of "Japanese only" requirements that get set. Makes sense for the ease of progging, but content is generally created in a way that does not require the use of comms to complete (especially with consoles involved), so I am not really fond of those PFs. Like I said, when I'm there, we join anyway because I take care of things, but when I'm not I feel like my FC gets left out. People do praise each other in progging though. There's a lot less criticism though, so it can be tough to grow if you're not told you're doing something wrong. Overall I'd say our experience with the community here has been a solid 5/10. Right in the middle. Nothing to shout home about, but it's not been bad at all. Feel free to ask me any questions about my exp if you're interested!

No shout chat?! Not even in Diadem during Ishgard Restoration?! I loved reading that shout chat, kept me entertained during long hours of gathering.

Elemental player here, all true. Also you will find the OCE and SEA players follow the JP rules. 2 other big things, the market is so much cheaper than EU and NA and PVP is huge!

Eureka being popular in japan definitely makes sense. They love grinding all day, that's why Dragon Quest is so popular over there and why so many gachas are super successfull.

Marketboard prices on JP DCs also tend to be the cheapest of all regions simply because they have the highest population of omnicrafters.

JP culture is full of saying sorry and forgiving. I lived in Japan for 7 years and I learned a lot. For example, when you double tennis and your partner misses ball, you also need to say sorry (eventhough it's your partner that missed), coz it means that your previous ball or maybe your position before made it difficult for your partner to hit the ball. same in some raids in FFXIV, if you are in a party with some sprouts, you as the more experienced one have to feel the responsibility to "guide", including adjusting positions if the sprouts are still learning and standing on the wrong spot. well, anyway, what i can say is, this culture difference thingies are real, so yeah probably its for the better if we don't do inter-region DC travel. people who can't accept differences are definitely not ready for this.

I'm on JP and this is fairly accurate. I've had people stop and bow at me at the exit portal for pushing through a run with really bad tanks and dps on my healer.

I am able to do my savage reclears using duty finder and I have always exclusively used duty finder for extreme fights in Carbuncle (JP server) . I am going to miss this part of the culture if it changes after the data centers get sundered

It's accurate. I'm a Canadian who has played since ARR. I started on Famfrit. Then I moved to the Philippines and had to start all over on Tonberry. The culture is night and day. The Japanese are quite patient. On Tonberry, there's a lot of players from various countries. Some, like me, have unreliable internet connection. I've DCd and on occasion would log back in about 10 minutes later only to find out that I wasn't kicked. We finish the instance and I still get coms.

I can confirm majority of this as someone who plays in the JP DC. DF is definitely much better here than NA/EU when I played on my alts. You'd greet everyone, pull, and be done with it. Using DF to run EXs is very common here in JP, if we don't clear after like what 10 pulls? We just ask do we want to abandon this? And everyone will just be yeah sure and just PUG again. Pointing fingers at others in a party that you pugged in, with strangers, is a big no-no. It's a one-way ticket to being blacklisted. And generally, we don't call out each other in party chat, if someone makes a mistake, they'll just say sorry and everyone will be like it's fine and just pull once more. We can get stressed about it not clearing but at the end of the day, just pug again and get that clear. No one has the time and energy to be a dick to a random stranger they'll likely never meet again, it's just bad taste. Shouts are usually reserved for FC advertising and trains. People randomly shouting weird stuff is annoying and can be spammy. As for the disconnection, it's actually quite true. People don't mind waiting at all, 10 mins. isn't inaccurate but if it does really take too long we'd just ask each other if we would wait or kick and find another one to join. Old content like BA and now Bozja are still quite active here, especially Eureka, you'll see people linking trains and suddenly a whole army of player comes in out of nowhere even if the map looks deserted. Overall, JP DC is chill but JP isn't absolute. We have toxic players here just as any DC, ENG speaker or not. Even if sadly it is mostly seen from the ENG speakers side of things residing in the JP DC.

The mentor thing is funny cause on my novice network people constantly complain about the mentor reqs being too easy and wanting it to be harder.

If you played FF11 with JP players you understand how EXTREMELY IMPORTANT understanding their culture for gaming is and what is ok and NOT ok or you would get blacklist by the whole server basically

The Reddit post is generally accurate, I would say that JP servers really prefer players who are better behaved. Not doing early pulls on hunts, doing dungeons and raids to best effort, helping out with strangers etc. There are some new players from an Asian country recently, and I think some of the JP servers are having a hard time adjusting to more "selfish" behaviour.

Region Visits: At a minimum, how about adding a fee to "go on vacation" to another region to experience the culture or 'find work', etc. Then add souvenirs to bring back.

As an NA player about the Macros part, all I can say is that being social and talking about the game can be fun XD

Looking back at this 2 years later it's crazy how much life can change.

I like how they love grinding because i love grinding in games too 😂 i wonder how people would have reacted to eureka in latin america if we had a server, because over here its full of people who likes grinding too 😂 i hope we can get a server soon, i would switch inmediatelly. the comunication between brazilians and spanish speakers will probably be hard, but most of the time english is used when one or another doesnt know a languaje in other games.

been on tonberry and moving to the new OCE servers, the culture in tonberry has definitely tamed the australian within. but in saying that, when you put aussies all together it might be very different as we can get rowdy very quick

10:25 "Failure is a shared responsibility by the team" What they mean is NOT hiding blame from someone who stands in the fire. It has to do with understanding how it can be prevented, and the shared responsibility of that through party support before, during, and after combat. If someone is failing many times at a mechanic, it is less likely that the leader will say "that person doesnt get it, so i will explain again", but more likely the leader will say "i didnt explain the mechanic properly to that person, so i will try again". In other words, the first assumption taken is that the group didn't properly help the person succeed. *Please note this is a very vast generalization and is, therefore, not very reliable

Grew up in USA, but live in Japan and play on Japanese server. I think it is accurate for the most part. Especially in the last portion. I have a few friends in NA data center and I want them to come visit so we can do some content together because they know the social rules here but at the same time, I worry sometimes as well. I personally would only go to NA or EU for some roulettes and see friends. Anything other than that … ^^;; I think mixing cultures together is important as long as we have mutual respect.

I used to play FFXI, on a primarily Japanese server, Carbuncle. It IS one of the original FFXI servers. I saw both NA and JP players treat each other poorly, but it was rare. I saw more cooperation and communication as time went on. Additionally, I was even in a Japanese Linkshell( equivalent to FF14 FC) and it was some of the best time of my MMO career, despite the language barriers. The auto translate feature does get the job done.

The reality of a more strict culture is that people "that get into pf will take it seriously"... the ones that try. I can imagine many of those people reely scare of fucking up (and they will fuck up) but then eventualy learn and overcome their fears, wont even try in a culture where noone will tell you that you are sucking and just ghost you eventualy. All humans have god gamers and slow learners, the ones with a toxic accitude i dont mind, but those that only let their anxiety get the best of them i feel for.

I have been playing in JP DC for over nine months and yes, the world is very quiet. You would see FC ads or some musiccal performance group announcements, like once a week or so in shout chat, nothing more. The only one time i saw some casual chats happening was in the gathering map of Ishgardian restoration, 2 am, with someone started posting what they call “Food Terror”, which means in that late time when everyones hungry and someone start posting how yummy a certain food is, then its the first time i see some other people continue the flow of a “casual chat”.

I'm Thai and play in Japanese Datacenter because I can't play NA/EU Datacenter due to there's ping more than the Japanese. I love their culture and politeness but there's one big langauge barier between me and them. Sometime, I want to talk to them but I can't. It's very rare to meet some Japanese player who can speak English to me

Ooo! Hey I know this one! Bear with me this is going to be a bit lengthy lol. Okay so as an Australian player that started in August last year, naturally I did some research. Most players who play the game that AREN'T of the oceanic region (SEA, Aus, NZ) don't have to think twice about which data center to go to, because it's generally good ping all around if you go to one in your region (NA/EU/JP ect). Us oceanic players don't have that luxury - EVERY online game we play is 200+ ping all the time always, with the worst being around 300-400. Unfortunately, we just have to sort of adjust to it. Now going over to WoW real quick; when oceanic servers were released in Australia during WoD, I went from 350ms to 8ms. Eight. At that point, we'd had over a decade of "I'm going to jump mid flying mount cast and take off mid-air" levels of latency so there was this weird period of two to three weeks of people adjusting to having spells respond INSTANTLY to inputs. If memory serves, because of the oceanic servers, an Australian guild - for the first time - actually came into the world first race in Highmaul. For context as someone who did heroic 25 (now mythic) Siege of Orgimmar - I had to move 2-3 seconds early for mechanics on paragons of the klaxxi to NOT die. It was rough when wow plays how it plays lol. Now with FFXIV, I found that coming to JP servers the "english speaking" JP realm was considered to be "Tonberry". Problem is, Tonberry is absolutely PACKED full of players so I was unable to make a character there and went to Carbuncle instead (which was a great idea, I've never had queues over 30 when I play with Endwalker lmao). The latency was expected and normal, a generally good community and a fun game. I hit 80 before Endwalker and speedran getting the Gwibbers - even at the arse end of the expansion there were groups running, learning parties going and - as I'm sure you've heard a million times from ex-wow players - trepidation about joining/making my own group. But in all honesty, once I figured out what the macro's meant and how they worked, it was super easy going EVEN IF they were in Japanese - here's a cloud deck extreme macro I still have for making my own group, for example: ======= Diamond Weapon EX ======= 《 GROUPS 》 ┃ 《 NUMBERS》 1 2 ┃┏ BLU ┓ ┏ RED ┓ MT OT ┃┃ 1┃ ┃2 ┃ H1 H2 ┃┃ ↕ ┃ ↔ ┃↕ ┃ M1 M2 ┃┃ 5┃ ┃ 6 ┃ R1 R2 ┃┃ 7┃ ┃8 ┃ ===========┃┃ ↕ ┃ ↔ ┃ ↕ ┃ ★ Towers use┃┃ 3┃ ┃4 ┃ Group POS ┃ ┗━━━┛ ┗━━━┛ (we don't speak about how annoying that was to format for youtube lmao) All the IMPORTANT information you need is there - Which groups will have which tank, healer, and dps, where to go for flood rays based on your number and colour and which tower soak you take. These are mechanics that can and will wipe your party if not organized out the gates. So joining groups, whoever has the macro will post it and people will sound off what position they're taking (for example as dragoon, I'll either say M1 for melee one, or D1 for dps one depending on how the macro is set up. It can either be what's there or D1-D4 and melee generally have priority on positions at the arse end off the boss for positionals) and sometimes the healers and tanks will get markers to differentiate them from the other two and off we go. These sorts of macro's are SUPER commonplace, and even appear in extreme 1 and 2 of Endwalker. I've not seen one "Safety Dorito" on ex 1, which seems to be commonplace for NA runs (but I could be the exception, not the rule). It grants pug groups relative consistency when someone posts in a macro and waymark, and you know exactly what you're doing REGARDLESS of the group and their native speaking language. Most JP players are fine having English speaking players in their group by lieu of the auto translate function (which is a godsend might I add) and the fact that said macro's are universal regardless of language. As a new player I don't really have my roots down like many longterm players so I'm probably going to the Oceanic servers, but part of me will absolutely miss the niceness and general relaxed vibe of the JP data centers. I understand the cultural differences concern and the monetary concern... but why not just turn off the ability to purchase items via marketboards for data center visits? It will keep the economy TO that region, but still allow players to pop in and say hi to each other or visit entirely difference regions for player made events that they would have otherwise missed out on. As for the cultural difference... is it really that big of a problem? There's actually a discord and FC on a JP server (I can't remember which one) that is explicitly for helping JP players learn english and vice versa - it's a cultural exchange via learning that I've not really ever seen in another game and is SUPER cool conceptually. Idk man; I'm all for data center visits, but the cultural concerns is a weird argument when the game itself has a foundation of players just.... being nice. Though I have heard of xenophobia picking up I've not actually encountered it myself. Sorry for the long post LMAO.

American player, living in Japan, playing on a JP data center (Gaia) since Heavensward. What they posted is generally accurate but with some exaggeration. If there is a Party Finder group whose goal is to clear a raid, not simply practice, people who are making mistakes will definitely (if they do not point out their own mistake) either get polite advice to fix it or in a bad scenario someone saying "this is a clear party." But when reading the PF descriptions you generally know what strategy will be used, how long they will attempt (or at what point they will abandon the duty), and the attitude of the party. For instance, if in the PF comment it explicitly says like "don't be a jerk," people will not be happy at all if someone decides to be a jerk. However, if it says "only people who have the mechanics down" and you join that party even though you aren't confident in the mechanics and make mistakes, people won't be happy. Also, I've noticed if someone cracks a joke in a duty or raid, everyone who was silent will respond and shenanigans ensue. My character's name is kind of a joke in Japanese, so it can get such a rise. One thing I have noticed growing since the few months prior to Endwalker is the increase in "JP Only" comments in PF descriptions. I also played FFXI, so its a bit nostalgic to see this. As much as it feels bad to see, it is still understandable. Even as a Japanese speaker, in a Japanese FC, it is easy for miscommunication to happen because so much of the "game language" is not language you learn in real life. Some people only want to play with other JP players because that is just how they are, but most of them surely have had bad experiences that they don't want to repeat because of communication problems. Even though I am totally fine playing with other English speakers and totally willing to explain things in both languages, I know there are many JP players who don't want to be in a group like that. I probably won't move to the new DC, but sometimes I honestly just want to use chat in English. I think that FFXI really experimented with cross-cultural servers, but people bring their borders with them. SE knows that and took a different direction with FFXIV.

10:21 I can say that with some consistency on Aether, when someone tries to say that they are doing all the work and other players aren't pulling their weight, we will destroy those people and put them in their place VERY quickly. Even still this kind of behavior happens more than we would like. We appreciate that everyone rests at a different skill level and not everyone is going to be at their peak (and certainly not at someone else's peak) throughout the game. Also of note, when someone tries to say that they are doing disproportionately better than someone else or even the rest of the team that's when I open up ACT and find their dps or heals severely lacking.

SEA players be stuck in the middle, with not being able to mix well in JP either and wanting OCE players to stay because they speak english. But not being able to move with them because I dont think SEA has a good history of having good ping with OCE servers. Just hope there are enough of us to still be able to do hard content on PF

Regarding motivations to move from JP to OCE (i havent really seen it discussed here), ATM the intermission mechanics in EX1 where you have to move to certain spots 3 times or get instakilled can be a lottery as to whether the lag gets you killed. You can be standing in the right spot and be nowhere near the mechanic and just fall over. It also makes MCH difficult to play as the overheat mechanic GCD window is far too tight for the ping and can frequently clip when trying to weave in the OGCDs.

About the meme at 7:05 - As a NA player, I noticed that those macros generally confuse players more, especially newer players, because they provide very little information about the mechanics and whatnot. That's probably why NA players have gotten into the habit of explaining mechanics. I still see macros here and there however.

I pretty much only care about glamour and I still will make the switch instantly. Playing with 400-500 ping feels so shitty. That being said, it often feels like there's a 'lack' of community. Everything feels quiet and empty. This may be a result of me not investing super deeply into what's there right now with an eye to xferring to Oceanic immediately.

As a bard performer who runs a full octet where we do cool rock concerts and such, I'm really hype for data center travel and hopefully region travel, simply because I want to travel around put on shows in different areas.

Based on what I heard from the JP players attacking the devs over the class balancing, it sounds a lot like how things were in WoW. I'm sure it's a situation where it's just a toxic vocal minority, but honestly it soured me on the idea of interacting with them at all. I would like to interact with players in the EU though, so I'm not sure how I feel about the whole traveling thing in general.

At 11:54 - This is especially true in real life in JP. If you're on a train ride somewhere, most people are quiet throughout the ride. I think even if a phone goes off, they wait until they're done with their ride before returning the call out of respect to everyone in the train. So, yeah, I figure this carries into MMOs as well. I just wanna go to a JP server and cause a ruckus. XD EDIT: YES!!! We call yell/shout chat pee chat in NA!!! HA HA HA HA HA!!!

I can speak Japanese, am currently playing on the Kujata server in the Elemental DC, and have cleared the Extreme/Savage tiers of EW content with purely JP-speaking parties on party finder. I can confirm that most of what was posted on that reddit post is true. I have generally had much fewer unpleasant encounters on party finder with JP only parties than with English speaking parties. There is definitely a much higher degree of personal and team responsibility when it comes to JP players - they will immediately apologize every time they mess a mechanic up, only for the other players to reply "Don't worry about it" and then pull the boss again, which personally makes me feel less fearful of being called out for a momentary lapse in judgement. It's very rare for someone to call you out on a mistake because they operate under the notion that the person who made the mistake is the #1 person who feels the worst about making that mistake. If they feel like 1 or 2 people aren't pulling their weight, they just say "Good game!", disband, and reform the party finder without naming and shaming the suspect players so that everyone can just move on without wasting more time. There are much less JP players who lie about their progress in fights because of this sense of responsibility, which in turn leads to a better PF experience. The few somewhat unpleasant experiences I've had from JP players revolve around the language barrier, and it also why I personally believe that they are not allowing travel between regional data centers. Although Kujata has a large English speaking community, the majority of the player base is still obviously JP. Because of this, you can get massive queue times for the Duty Finder if you don't search for parties that have JP speakers, which means that people who DON'T speak any JP end up playing with people who cannot speak any English. Although I'm quite used to it by now, I'm constantly getting asked if I can speak Japanese when I join a 'JP only' party finder since I have my game set in English. I frequently encounter JP players who will try to use English-speakers' 'overseas status' as a reason to why you're not doing a mechanic correctly because 'you just don't understand what's happening', but at the same time I cannot hold this against them as I understand how they feel when a non-JP speaking player joins their party. Much like in real life Japan, you're expected to know the common etiquette - those who don't understand these unspoken rules aren't necessarily blamed, but will also never feel like they're truly a part of the community. That's why I think they're using the "cultural differences" issue as a reason for not allowing Cross Data Center travel. For the sake of both JP only and EN only players. I personally think that these cultural issues aren't a problem between the western data centers, but it would be a very bad look for them to only allow for example EU NA OCE but ban western players from going to JP.

I play on kujata and it’s been really conflicting on my FC because the ocenia players do wanna swap for the benefits, but we don’t wanna have to leave our FC members who will not be transferring, some of our FC members will be making alts to help build a sister Fc but we aren’t gonna be swapping unless they allow region transfer because we are too close

Haven't seen any comments from an AU player from Asura, so just wanted to say that the community is wonderful and very accommodating to new players. Been playing for about 18 months and now I generally level alt classes via the roulettes. It's always been amazing to clear those key MSQ Duties with a first-time sprout. Consistently you will see players stick around after the final cutscene to congratulate and celebrate their newfound progression. Hell I remember just chilling in Mor Dhona as a new-ish lvl 60ish RDM and another player asked me if I wanted some gear. 20 mins later they traded me a full crafted lvl 60ish HQ set. They friended me after that and every time we bump into each other we wave. Also side note, some JP players have the flashiest emote messages which were always a delight to see.

Newer player here! I just wanna share my first experience with the commendation system and doing my first few dungeons with randoms. Now I started as a Maurader and was grinding my last few levels for 50 so I can finish my msq. I'm going to be frank I was terrible. Haven't played an mmorpg since I was a kid and never started one as a tank. (Honestly bad idea but I was already too deep) even after they had to remind me to have my Defiance up and telling me I need to get warrior made me feel a little embarrassed. I was thinking of switching off tank and starting a new job because I felt like I failed even though we got through the dungeon just fine. But at the end they all told me that they were going to give me a commendation for just talking in general and that not many tanks talk anymore. Plus I gave them a heads up I was new even though it was obvious and they said they appreciate tanks like me and told me to keep at it and get that warrior and you'll be amazing. I knew then at that moment that not only was I going to keep playing a tank but I got a second wind of motivation and stayed up for hours grinding out my msq and class quests. I've never felt that welcomed when I did so bad. This community is amazing.

I was in JP dc for like 1 month, and I’ve never seen anyone do alliance raid like them lol, the party stay with healers, u don’t see anyone go far, they try to stay close to the healer as much as possible and u don’t see the allaince all over the place, everyone stay near their party lol

I'm an Australian player who is new to FFXIV with the great WoW exodus, and been playing on JP realms for latency issues. I also speak/read some Japanese and lived in Tokyo for a bit. I can't really communicate, especially with keyboard in game, but it's nice to be able to read most of the niceties that the Japanese tend toward. Whilst it is generally quiet, I've found other english speakers are all also polite and the feel of the server is playing in a much more pleasant overall environment than say the cesspit of Australian WoW realms. I have my concerns that on moving to oceanic I'm going to be back in that cesspit, but at the same time, latency is a real big issue right now. Can only hope that it's alright... Also, they 100% wall to wall pull constantly.

Zepla Senpai on cross cultural interactions. I'm learning so much

v1.0 servers were people from all regions like in FFXI . I met a JP friend who was very shy but liked practicing their English. The "culture clash" and language barrier was why they segregated the servers for ARR

the waiting for 10 min is true, i encounter 15 min wait before. even for DD. also Eureka is a love letter to FF11, we love FF11 btw.

Hi there! Elemental (Ramuh) player here. I'm a South-East Asian player here and would not really mind transferring to OCE DC for the main reason of having difficulty getting into PF because of language barrier. Most of the PF I find would prefer JP-speaking players since it is less of a hassle to communicate and at least you can easily speak in chat knowing that someone will reply to you :D. But I will forever be grateful to our JP community in the server because of how generally polite people are. I always bow when I enter any dungeons/raids/trials/PF as a sign of respect towards others at the same time a sign acknowledging them as a member of a party :D. Yes, definitely a culture thing and I will probably carry that trait when I transfer. Also if anyone messes a mechanic, myself included, will always apologize and most of the people I partied with are very accommodating and understanding so the anxiety and fear or messing up is easily alleviated but that is to say people are expected to adapt, learn and carry themselves inside the game, specially during dungeons/trials/raids. Also, I'll be sad as well leaving my FC-mates whom I know for more than 2 years now. They'll probably stay on JP DC but I really want a fresh start on a new server. It also eases my decision to transfer because Home transfer will be free with several incentives as well (glad that my private home/lot will be given back in gil so at least that won't be to heavy for me :D). Also, I am an omnicrafter so starting the economy on a new server/DC will be an opportunity. I do wish that there will minimal toxicity since it ruins the enjoyment of the game. :D P.S. All things mentioned on reddit is true :D

As a FFXI vet, combined servers can work, but it takes effort on both sides to do it. And an understanding that because cultures are different, gameplay expectations are different. For example, it was considered highly rude by JP players to examine their gear without asking.

I'm on primal and I got stomach sick one time from food poisoning and the party waited for me to finish the dungeon. Decent group. But definitely hit or miss

i've been playing in EU and JP server. I gotta say the JP care a lot more about group's success than individual. For example, the daily msq, in the EU server player often get left behind, since others want to rush through and get it done asap, while in JP, if one or two goes missing, they'll wait until the player regroup before continuing on with the duty

Those points are mostly true, yes. Remember that the points are talking about players on a JP Datacenter (Which include SEA and Aussie players), not JP players alone. I'm in Aegis (Elemental), have never seen a gold seller anywhere; have never seen yell or shout in cities, only seen it used for hunts, rare FATEs, or in duties like Bozjan; say chat is also a rare sight in cities, when there are people talking in say chat, it's *almost always* English (which could mean SEA or Aussie players) they are very patient. Many times I have DC'ed suddenly, or my GPU being a dick and crashes my game (DX11 errors), come back, and they're still there, either waiting right where I disconnected, or before the next boss fight. Only once that I got kicked, but that time it took me longer than usual to get back in. Similarly, they will wait for the new player to finish their cutscenes, even if it's just one player. When they pull before that, I often see them apologize. this is about JP players, they are pretty grindy. Players that I have seen have all their jobs capped (including all DoH, DoL, DoW, DoM), most of them are Japanese Now, wall to wall pulls, idk how they do it in other places, but I have only seen tanks do 2-pack pulls in higher level dungeons (SB and after). Only saw actual wall-to-wall in MSQ dungeons and ARR dungeons, sometime HW

I think the language barrier may be a bit oof but overall I think it'd be nice. I've seen people that play on JP servers and stuff which have a decent blend of English and Japanese speakers. They have like translated macros and stuff and I've heard of plenty wholesome moments.

I mainly play on Tonberry Elemental since 2013. For 8+ years, i personally dealt bad eggs not more than 5 or so times with Jp players. I think I had a tiny advantage because I can speak beginner Japanese (and being praised for my bad ability but yeh). As long as you can speak the language, you could sneak in JP onry PFs. Once I experienced I get kicked from party before it even started is when I joined JP PF and I spoke Japanese and found out I’m E player so yeah. Other than that, they’ll go SUGOI. On Shout, generally english players (SEA/AU) do but it’s not a super frequent occurrence. When I see some, mostly they’d invite on a private event or PF or FC recruit. One of my biggest culture shocks to me in NA servers is that players don’t care alliance A,B, C designations coz in JP, the A,B,C huddle left to right. B tank is often the defacto main tank of the whole raid, unless they disclose they can’t tank coz new or undergear. NA players will just woosh and go. Often cause a wipe.

Happy for the people in Oceania getting servers :)

I just wanted to share my experience in JP servers: I started playing in Hades(JP server) I rarely come across english speakers before EW and now theres quite a few, almost 4-5 in every 10 duty roulette. I feel like, like me, they are avoiding the congested NA servers. Since I grew up in an asian household, I am quite familiar on how japanese players play. Very polite, no extra chatters, no emotes spam, etc. I have a full on japanese script ready when i join and leave the duty, or when i mess up and when someone does a great job(i cant take it out of me, I'm canadian). Most of the time they will try to greet in english when I habitually join with "Hello o/" and because its a sprout account (healer) the tank will usually pull slow, unless I indicate I can take big pull (i.e. dpsing and positioning myself a bit forward) and the tank responds well by pulling more mobs or wall to wall(they also commends often). When I tank, and I see my healer is experienced (so as DPS) I just do big pulls(and get commends, again). I expected them to just leave after duty with no commends, based from others experience, but I havent had an experience in duty and didn't get commends. Of course, there are a few bad eggs... like people who are so inconsiderate like pulling till to the first boss fights with a very low lvl pt, and when they die they do the exact same thing and dies again, or leaving duty the moment I habitually type "sorry/hello" instead of copy-pasting my script. But those people are VERYYYY RARE (surprising enough 2 of em are mentors). Socially speaking, I unconsciously (again NA habits) cast regen/cure on someone when they switch class at limsa, usually they heal me back. And when I do emotes, most of the time they do as well but with the chat turned off. I also want to share this story where a sprout was doing a lvl 10 fate and I was just sitting there while on the phone with my friend. The sprout started dying so i joined the fate took tank stance. It was so cute!!! After the fate they started jumping around me, and because Japanese server, with chat, turned off they kept spamming cheer. Sidenote: Some people do spam emotes on limsa (like in faerie) but it's usually around 3 am(JPN) at night, if you play earlier it's just silence even though the area is full of players. Time-wise as well if it's late night in JP time, the people who ques are usually high lvl, if its around evening, there are more sprouts players. Oh! No one does the games on gold saucer! OMG! It was so embarrassing they just go about their day while I have the whole event to myself.Anyway, my advice is if you want to play in JP server while on duty be mindful of your manners ( even though u still have that NA manners) and be respectful. if you can copy-paste in Japanese, then do it to just show you are at least trying. You will find a few that will make you feel like you didn't leave NA, which includes both the good and the bad.

I've been playing on Fenrir, Gaia for 1.5 years. I don't know what the culture is like on other JP data centers with more English-speaking players, because Gaia is populated almost exclusively by JP players, and there are barely any English-speakers. I can speak Japanese, so I usually don't have issues communicating with other players. I'd say most of what's covered in the Reddit post is accurate. Generally, JP players are polite and patient, and are far more coordinated in Duty Finder content. However, that's not to say there aren't players who are rude or impatient or uncoordinated. Occasionally, there'll be tanks who wait for absolutely no one in Alliance Raids, players who bluntly point out others' mistakes, etc. Even so, the vast majority of JP players are pleasant to be around. Some are really friendly and will go out of their way to help others, but even if they aren't, most players at least keep to themselves and don't give others a hard time. This is the case for the Novice Network too (I'm a mentor myself), in contrast to the horror stories I've heard about NA mentors. Sometime ago, I made a new character on Malboro, Crystal to play with NA friends, and I immediately had several frustrating experiences: players who were massive jerks, players fighting over how to resolve mechanics, and most common of all, players outright ignoring mechanics. An example: everyone ignoring the slimes in the Amon fight in Syrcus Tower. In all of my time playing on Gaia, I had never even seen some of the mechanics that I saw when I played on Crystal, because JP players generally deal with mechanics and cover for each other, and DPS is often high enough to skip later mechanics. I did meet some players who were extremely friendly while running dungeons, but unfortunately I'm now hesitant to play with random NA players I don't know. Having experienced two data centers with vastly different cultures, I completely understand the concerns about cross-region travel. People with different playstyles, people joining groups in Party Finder without fully understanding the requirements and strats, etc. Even when I run into bad players on Gaia, I feel like half the time they turn out to be non-JP players. I'm probably biased on this, but even recently, I had to report someone for the first time for continuously hurling insults in English in the Novice Network (they probably didn't realize they weren't typing in Party Chat.) Honestly, if I had started FF on an NA data center instead of Gaia, I most likely would have quit long, long ago due to the more extreme culture. Despite all that, I still hope the developers will eventually implement cross-region travel to some degree. I have many NA friends I'd like to play with without having to create and level another character, and I'd like to think that the majority of players from non-JP servers are friendly as well. If the developers are worried about upsetting in-game economies, maybe they could restrict buying from the Market Board, because in any case, I doubt that's going to be the main draw of cross-region travel.

As an Australian who's played on JP servers since 5.2, it's depressing to see how little people chat in public. I played WoW back in the vanilla days, and spent half my time in between raids talking shit in The Barrens, making Chuck Norris jokes. It's hard to find fellow English-speaking people on the JP servers, and I'm hoping the Oceania servers will be more chatty, as that's what I love most about an MMO: the other people. Sure, there's some wankers out there, but it's the same thing in real life. Regarding the "start the conversation and you get the commends".... ABSOLUTELY! Every single player on Elemental JP DC uses auto-translator greetings and farewells, but as soon as I do something like say "Sepirot??? Powerman5000 time!!!", or "It's the ff7 battle music!", or "Thank God, something other than LotA!", or "Aurum Vale? RIP healer, sorry mate!" all the English-speaking players come out of the woodwork. Made some good friends this way, and recruited some new FC members this way too. As I can speak a decent amount of Japanese, I still ask for help in Ex trials when I forget a mechanic. I never get a response in Japanese groups, and there's been HEAPS of JP PF groups with titles saying stuff like "JP Only", or "No English Players", on Ex trial groups that aren't [Duty Complete]. If you run an Ex trial that isn't [Duty Complete], in the English community, it's assumed that you have watched a few strat vids and have a basic understanding, and that there's ALWAYS one player who will explain stuff as we fail it. I never get this in JP groups. They fail a few times then disband, no communications, no suggestions for improvement, etc. EDIT: Yoshi P, if you're reading this, PLEASE LET US VISIT OUR OLD FRIENDS IN ELEMENTAL! None of the SEA players are going to be migrating to the OCE servers, but those of us who do will be going from 180ms ping to (hopefully)

It would also be really great for streamers, letting more viewers participate in content with them that are from different regions without having to make an alt

Ya'll should read Yoshida Uncensored if you haven't, it's a compilation of his biweekly Famitsu columns with some additional commentary, very fascinating read.

I'm a Singaporean player on the Elemental Datacenter. I was a WoW refugee who used to play on a US WoW Roleplaying Server. I also used to push M+ IO ratings mostly PuGs. I hope for and look forward to Cross Region Visits for a few reasons. Since coming to FFXIV, I've joined friends in the Elemental DC, recently joined a Savage Static, bought and decorated a House, accumulated a bunch of Glams and all that good stuff. Since then, plenty of my WoW friends from the RP servers have moved to FFXIV and are all on the US Datacenter. Now, I'm a One Toon andy rather than an Alt-aholic. I'm utterly invested in a single toon. I'd love nothing more than to be able to bring my main over to roleplay with my old WoW friends in the American DC. That and it would be nice to invite them over to the JP DC to check out the different player culture.

I played on Gungnir/Elemental before coming to Brynhildr/Crystal. Almost everything you read on that post was true. I never got to do high-end content over there but one thing about the JP servers is that they don't skip the trash fights during the Praetorium, that's how different it is compared to NA servers.

I started playing while living in Japan, and now that I'm back in Europe I get a ping that keeps me from doing challenging content as some mechanics become really hard to dodge if not completely impossible. So I'd like to move my character to the EU DC, but at the same time I'd like to be able to pay a visit to my current FC with my current character as I don't want to have to maintain an alt. That being said a lot of people from my FC in JP are from Australia or the Philippines, so many are tempted to go to the new DC too. Cross-region really could help everyone here. At least I was able to play EW without suffering any big queue, as now I'm usually playing when it's the middle of the night in Japan thanks to timezone magic. Other than that I like the mood in the JP servers. It changed a bit since last summer, but it's still mostly peaceful and respectful.

In RuneScape, characters are not bound to any server; rather, at the time of login the engine suggests the best world for you to play that day, but you can choose any other manually if you want so, and you can instantly hop between worlds of the same language without logging out, and all data is shared with all other servers. However, as the servers are spread through the continents and have different themes, and there are F2P and P2P and VIP worlds, each one has its own culture, manifested in a lot of ways. Still, culture shocks have never been an issue, maybe because the only country which worries about cultural shock -- Japan -- happens to be the only one were nobody really plays RuneScape.

This is super funny to me, because this is exactly how I play the game. It sounds like common f*cking sense xD In any feature of the game, teamwork is necessary, and if someone is having difficulty with something, we should solve the virtual puzzle together-- because that's all that it is. I think the only thing that's different is that I hardly ever use the vote abandon function at all. If it's not working out, I'll just say "hey this has been fun, but I'm going to do something else now"... Even if I'm 100% lying and just going to jump back into pf. Just feels like general common rules of "don't be a dick to people. there's a person behind that avatar". Sounds like I'd fit right in to the JP servers~

Yes JP players do wall-to-wall. I get flashbacks of that one Lightning cosplayer GNB in Don Mheg. I was DPS, friend was a SCH with subpar gear (lvl 70 dungeon gear and HQ crafted gear). The person still tried doing wall to wall even after failing twice... They were saying sorry on auto translate, and party list only shows J highlighted. And I encountered a toxic JP player as well. Person only afk'd in a trial and the team wiped a few times. Echo comes and only then they started actually playing. Loot time. They weren't leaving the instance they seem to be after the loot. So I greed the loot and they swore at me in Japanese... And I deflected back the swear in Japanese and left. I got the loot which I just delivered to my GC.

In my experience JP parties have always waited for the DC person to come back. I'm really impressed, even as a DPS they would wait for me. 10 times out of 10 they would wait, really love it. The downside of JP is pf raiding. They will always put japanese only which can be difficult to get into a party

Yes there are quite a lot of bad jp players, but the difference is that they are willing to learn, they look forward to learning in fact, and that's really amazing man. I Pugged a9s to a12s back in heavensward and the party chat actually gets very active when one of them asks about a mechanic they are unclear about. The thing is, most people start out kinda bad, and thats not the problem, not wanting to improve is.

On an EU server & honestly it is mixed, I've had some lovely encouragement and helpful tips while taking up tanking and also had asshats running head and deciding they want to do wall to wall pulls while me & the healer had agreed to do 1 or maybe 2 groups at a time. The worst experience was when someone was complaining that they had to heal At All because I messed up some mechanics in a Shb dungeon about a month before EW came out - as if everyone doing 80 roulette had best in slot and finished Shb years ago, no advice just "if we had better dps we could do that faster" like ok??? That's kinda obvious the boss can't do mechanics when it's dead? And when I asked for tips on what I could do better to try get away from just being told I was playing shite (like yeah I know that's why I'm doing roulettes with my alt job to get better) was just told that they didn't play bard. Calling them out on just being rude like if you're going into roulettes it's not just going to be people who play savage content regularly just got more abuse 🙃 It shook me up to the point where I don't do anything without a full party on VC again and even then only with my main job. Which sucks because I was looking forward to going through EW and experiencing it with more people.

It's accurate I've played on elemental since arr. As long as you communicate using Japanese jp players are lovely to play with.

What I'm getting: JP players are super polite/respectful Also from the last video: JP players regularly threatening devs

13:50 Big agree on getting the coms in dungeons via talking/telling jokes. During alabyrinth of ancient run they kept not doing the mechanic for ancient flare and we wiped 4 times so I said I feel like im being held hostage here. ended up with 7 coms upon leaving the run.

As a UK player I got through ARR and Heavensward, but then got stuck because of the massive queues, so used a HW boost to create a character on Atomos with a view to getting me through Stormblood, which I have done (and now continuing through ShadowBringer before home transfer service opens). I have found no culture clashes whatsoever when playing through MSQ and daily roulettes. The only thing iv'e spotted is that quite a few will macro 'lets do this' on entry 'bow' on exit of a duty. I have started to bow on exit too :p Apart from that, no issue at all, but then again I don't high level raid.

We’ve all had those silent Praetorium runs where no one speaks. Honestly, if that’s the worst that it gets I see cross region as an absolute win

in the Preatoreon or whatever hour long cutscene MSQ 8 man raid that i just had to do, i didn't interact with one of a dozen random interactables that i didn't touch because i was new and didn't want to ruin the run by clicking something i shouldnt, the whole group had seen and aknowledged that i was new, but no one told me to click the thing, so after an entire elevator ride and the entire raid leaving me behind i was stuck standing there doing nothing while they continued the raid without me and by the time the game forced me back with the group, they had already half-killed Nero...the big climax to the entire story i've been playing was ruined by a group that didn't want to wait for me, and every single one of them was complaining about not being able to skip the cutscenes, so i can't imagine they'd have waited for me to finish watching them if they could have skipped. yeah, great community.

Post about JP is very accurate. It sucks not being able to use party finder, but never getting raged at, always polite people, it's great. At most, you will see 'Hello', 'goodbye', and 'sorry'. The politeness of the DC is amazing

In FFXI JP and ENG players just existed together on my server (sylph) there was nothing noticeable about the economy and when i got in a group with JP players we would briefly use auto translate to just say hi and then the rest of the time they would all be typing in japanese while i just waited for the puller to come back w/ a mob and voke it off him and repeat. same thing with eng groups except i remember the english groups were less talkative. both groups would know the meta so to speak like popular camps to set up at and popular weaponskill chains etc, I didn't really notice anything other than the social aspect that was different.

I play on Tiamat as an OCE person, most of what was said is pretty close. There's a lot of ﾉ being said in Yell and Shout when people need to look for a party for something (FATEs, Eureka, Bozja,) and there's macro messages for joining and leaving, but that's about it. 10 to 15 minutes to wait for someone is pretty standard, I think.

I play on the Mana DC Masamune server, which has significantly less English speaking players than Elemental (obviously). Overall, the cultural differences are true, and are incredibly apparent when I play on my NA alt. I've experienced times when people will criticize people individually and specifically during an ex trial or savage run, but it's extremely rare (and more likely to happen if someone notices you're playing in English). Cities are very quiet (yes, even Limsa) and your chat log will be full of emote text rather than /s /y or /sh typically. And that thing about no RMT was very real. I've been on Masamune for 4 years and can think of one time where I saw an RMT bot. I've also had some very entertaining and fun times with the Japanese community. One personal favorite was during a delebrum reginae savage run where I was in discord voice chat with the group to hear callouts, and was in a separate voice chat with an FC member I was doing the run with. I was also streaming the run and talking in English, and then noticed the discord chat commenting on it and wondering where the English was coming from (I forgot to mute myself). Well, after apologizing they found my discord and then went to my twitch stream and a bunch of people started watching and they had me call out the start of our run. Very entertaining time. I would still love to see region visits implemented, but my biggest concern for ages has been how it would affect the economy. I doubt that too many players would come over from NA or EU because of time difference/culture/language barriers, and I would hope that those who do respect the overall culture (we don't need to argue over PF strats and stuff because it keeps things consistently smooth). I just also wouldn't complain if you were barred from interacting with the marketboard on a DC from a different region. NA is waaaaay overinflated and I like my extremely affordable MB prices. Also, just want to correct something said in the video. Those Eureka quotes about it being not fun or Japanese people being hamsters were NOT said by Yoshida. They were comments on that thread

Honestly, for high-difficulty contents, Jps don't care as long as you can read macro. There are actually so little and only completely adjustable things that are done differently between EN and JP savage raids. Like where they stack for the very first titan call in e12s. And thanks to saintly people on the lodestone we have the exact same macro and WM for most of the time except the mechs are written in JP or EN. The only time they get triggered is when people join without being able to read macro at all (idk how that's even possible but there are both Jp and En players have absolutely no clue what macro fundamentally means such as taking melee positions while being a physranged because they don't know that D3 and 4 meant to be ranged all the time; H1 is pure H and H2 is shield H etc. Also what I find a thing that infuriates JP healers is that when tanks don't use any miti on RW not just because they've forgot but they are being lazy, and complaining that Healers ate doing too much uptime. Its like calling for an instant abandonment vote it's pretty funny actually.

Just happy that the group quality is gonna go drastically up on Tonberry

Yes ! lol I have never seen anyone 'Say' or 'Shout' unless it is to alert the area of a FATE boss/hunt. Very quiet indeed, peaceful.

For me i actually started out on Phoenix but later switched to Diabolos on Crystal because i had some friends there. Even back on Phoenix though i remember people not waiting for cutscenes or bitching at me because i didn't already know what to do despite being new. This was during the year when Stormblood came out. Basically what i'm saying is that EU is not that different from NA sometimes.

i say hey and gg at the end all the time if i make mistakes i apologise and try not to do it again, some fights are bonkers though so much to remember

I appreciate that your RU-vid content is focused and not just cherry picked stuff from your stream.

I'd like cross region play period. I'd like to go hang out with the Australians.They seem like lovely people.

I'm for cross region traveling but maybe a more gradual implementation. Like first OCE and NA for example and then watch to see how cross region data center interactions unfold and use player opinions resulting from those interactions to determine whether to open it up for other regions as well.

100% region visit should be a thing, but there should also be some sort of warning, or just community understanding, of different regions curtesy practices. I’m sure other regions wouldn’t mind seeing other players, but it’s when they feel like they’re sever is being changed that people feel more defensive. Obviously there’s gunna be bad actors but most of the complications is just gunna be from cultural differences. I’ve met many a JP player and I love playing with them, but I can easily see how a few normal NA players would stand out in a JP server. Multiply that by a couple hundred and JP players could start to feel like their server is being changed because of NA players visiting. This can happen to any region, not just NA and JP but I think those 2 are known enough to get the point across. It’s a great thing for the game to have, it just comes down to players understanding that in other servers people do stuff differently, he’ll even in the same region, data centers can differ quite a bit

I'm playing on Carbuncle atm. I transferred a few months ago from the very Japanese Gaia DC (maybe 5% ENG speakers) to a very mixed Elemental DC (feels like 50/50 mix sometimes between JP and ENG) and there are pros and cons for both. I made a good Japanese friend whilst on Gaia that I could do duties and clear content with but I wanted to communicate with random people more easily in duties and in instanced areas (and start an FC and buy a house which I managed to do). On Gaia whilst I mostly only communicated through the translated texts, I was used to having very reliable parties and swift completion of duties. I almost never experienced wipes on duty roulette, it was so easy in fact it was a massive eye opener when I got to Elemental where there was a lot more party wipes, even on older content like World of Darkness which I admit is hard if you don't know the mechanics. So perhaps this is just because there's a lot more new players in Elemental overall but it does get frustrating because not everyone is a sprout in some cases a little stubborn to feedback. I'm lucky that in both DCs I have never met a toxic Japanese player, even when I effed up big time (I only started playing end of 2020). But having moved, I don't regret it since I'm enjoying how lively Elemental feels compared to Gaia which was a lot more quiet and I can easily party up or talk to people whether its English or Japanese speakers. Its great there's a new Oceanic DC but to be honest, the improved ping and the gil compensation is not enough of an incentive to give up my FC and the plot I wanted. I've had great experiences on both JP servers, its hard to justify moving to a primarily Aussie one.

As an NA player, is there a good place to look for an explanation of what those EU/JP macros mean?

I just remember this one time shout chat just got into a long conversation about crabs and it was glorius.

now that the OCE servers are here, I have to absolutely share this video again. it just needs to be seen more.