ZIPP Wheel Bearings are destroying my brain. 

Wouldn´t it be possible to measure ZIPP bearings, ID and OD, and compare the numbers with proper bearing makers figures and tolerances?? One manufacturer should be the best fitting. Rgr

Thank you. Still not sure why they creak when fitted the wrong way round though.

big fan of your work! you're the most knowledgeable orange squirrel i've ever seen @Hambini

@@Mapdec Dump the originals. Probably especially made in Umptown, China to Zipp specifications by a no name maker. What about if the outer ring is conical? Small OD outwards, bearing could wobble in bearing recession? Large OD outwards, can´t? Rgr

@@Mapdec Mine tend to creak sometimes i put a little tab of grease on the right cap the area that touch the rear hanger

Thank you. Any idea why they creak the wrong way round?

@@Mapdec I haven't broken one apart to see how the bearings are made but there could be a difference inside the bearing as to which way it is meant to be preloaded sideways. That could explain the difference in results based on installing orientation. Just a speculation though as I haven't serviced any Zipp wheel hubs lately. Taking off the less sealed bearing seal and stuffing the bearing with more grease might help with creaks if they are due to the bearing being dry-ish on the inside. I've seen some bearings squeal due to next to no grease on the inside. Usually greasing all contact surfaces between hub and bearing and bearing and axle is enough to get rid of creaks. I usually tend to see corroded bearings being stuck into the hub or onto the axle due to corrosion between materials made worse by inserting water and washing agents or road salt into the mix. Bearings are quite a hot topic lately as some hub brands suffer from speccing the cheapest bearings they can find and then those bearings literally destroy themselves and fall apart inside the hub. One notable example is the Shimano 3-pawl MicroSpline freehub bearings that tend to disintegrate and then eject themselves in pieces from between the axle and the cassette lockring. Of course the user of the bike must be quite negligent to not notice anything going on.

wow, so much drag from rubber seal ....

Yep. Some success with SKF and NTN for sure.

Thanks Kevin

@@Mapdec Thanks Mapdec....I'm going to order FF's for winter riding. Do you mind if I tell them you suggested them?.

Sure. Let us know how you get on.

Thanks V10. I have never tried NSK, I am not sure the best place to buy them. We have used NTN, they sometimes work, but often dont.

Hopefully the SRAM team will do this. Let’s see what happens.

Wow. That’s cheaper than I got mine!

Apparently, they’re not proprietary.

Yes, I said in vid, some success with SKF not 100% though. Sometimes they still give out a little squeak.

Thank You Bionic Rider

They sure don’t last long in the English Lake District.

There´s more reasons NOT to buy SRAM. Rgr

SRAM doesn't supply parts?

@@Charles-kc2vt My gravel pal uses Force 1x11. The plastic shite part that pulls the wire to the rear derailleur cracked, making it onespeed. Do you think shite SRAM could supply a new plastic part, or do my pal order a new brifter? Hint: total cost would be around £200,00.. Rgr

Good luck wiih shimtmano then. You gonna end up with the same problem. And good luck if your local distributor doesnt supply it, because shitmano is geoblocked across the globe from online orders.

@@playmoreguitar5393 never had any support issues with Shimano in the UK unlike SRAM who are really unhelpful and only want to communicate with dealers.

I have had this EXACT issue on my 303 FC. After 6mo of use the bearings seized and I had to jump through hoops to get the warrantied. SRAM's advice to me was "don't wash the bike and don't ride in the rain". I don't ride in the rain and it's not like I wash the bike after every ride. FFWD 5 more months later and boom the same thing happened. Hub felt like gears were skipping and wonky. Opened it up, bearings were just sitting in water and all corroded. Had to spend like 170.00 for replacement everything. FWD again 3 mo after that, riding along and boom spoke broke out of the nipple part with a crack where the nipple is. I weight 140lbs so it's not like there was abuse.. Never ever ever again will I buy zipp wheels. Will migrate over to Roval or Enve.

Retaining compound is a short term fix in some cases.

TPI Taiwan is a joint venture and technical cooperation with NTN Corporation, Japan.

Will keep you updated

Awkward moment ahead. Sorry

Yes. And it sucks that that put 61903 all over their service info

This is not uncommon. Many wheels from big companies do this with their OEM wheel sets.

They are quickly rusting crap which was always too tight or too loose and never really running round.

Nice wheels, shame about the hubs

They got a whole lot better in the last year.

@Mapdec Cycle Works Great to know. I've only got a basic set to see how they fair.

I hope this helps. There is a follow up vid that explains the fix

Sorry you caught this vid too late. Thanks for sharing David

I would probably say... experience... Interesting point you make.

I know right!

Not a great choice. Maybe consider Shimano Dura Ace hubs and build.

Speak to a wheel builder, is my best advice.

@@Mapdec what would you recommend as to some alloy rims. Are Mavic Pro’s still a good buy? Thinking of Hope RS4’s to compliment then? Cheers for all the videos. Glad to have found your channel😊👍

Mavic open pro rims are light but they are flexible and need some skill to build. I like the Pacenti Forza alu.

@@Mapdec I need rim brake version with 32 spoke count. Would you recommend Hope RS4 for road with the Forza rims? Would you build for me?

@@JamesSocialCycling of course James. Call or email the shop and let’s see what we can do.

They are wrong code for AC. Defo radial. I’ve checked. The direction appears to be down to how the seal is held in place.

They are the best hubs for sure. The only draw back is that not many shops will service them, not that need servicing very often, but when they do, it can be a pain.

@@Mapdec Yeah, they use their own bearings which you're better off buying from the US directly. Not to mention the special hub tools, both of which I have. Expensive, Yes!. But since 2008 when I started using CK hubs, headsets and BB's, I've only had to use the MTB hub tool twice! and the R45 tool once in the "Crosser" I've literally gone through more rims than bearings....... No word of a lie! 👍 🚴‍♂️

@@andystone5487 totally believe you. Headsets can go though several bikes before worn out too.

I have had R45's running for a decade too, and they are very good. Managed to easily self-service them at home without the special tools, as it's possible to flush out the drive rings/ bearings without fully removing them. Haven't got to the point where they ever needed the full tear down. They're not totally perfect though, the flange width is conservative compared to alternatives. Just changed over to a BlackFriday set of Bora'like Fulcrum's, and out of the box the finishing quality is some of the best this bike snob has ever seen...ride quality is exceptional too. Like the R45, the cup&cone should be long lasting with regular attention, and on the record type hubs the bearing surfaces can be fully replaced. Much better system for damp climates than cartridges in Zipp's etc...

454 is totally different, and an excellent wheel set.

​@@Mapdecim running 303s for 25000km and had no problems yet 🤷‍♂️. Maybe I'm just lucky

I haven’t seen a set, so it would be wrong to comment really.

Hard to say. Most folk are disappointed if they don’t get at least a year of regular riding from a set of bearings.

Thank you. I can’t recall ever working on Parcours. Sorry

@@Mapdec Not a problem! Just wondering.

That’s a shame.

I wrote to them thru their contact page to ask about it, as they ask if you want any special changes done, so we’ll see what they say back.

@@GNX157 On the FFWD website it for the RYOT 44 wheelset "You want to save extra weight in combination with a higher precision and stiffness? Then the DT 240 hubs with the improved EXP ratchet system may be the best choice!" So they certainly provide DT Swiss hubs still

Keep us informed. I hope they help.

@@kidkarbon4775, I’m looking at the rim brake carbon roads, and they’re not showing a DT hub as an option.

They didn’t warranty!?!!

And Zipp customer service replied: it depends on weather conditions. The silliest response one could get. Even for every single kilometer of ride there was rain, seals should be working.

I don’t think any hubs, apart from chris king are really very weather sealed, but Zipp do corrode very fast for sure.

Hopefully the follow up vid will show how that warranty works. Did you not see our vids on the 303s from when it was launched?

I watched your unboxing / first look video . And attempt to inflate the gp5000. I’ve put Pirelli p zero on the rims and went up first time with a track pump , which I wasn’t expecting . I’ve only really found praise for the 303s online …. Until now 😬

Haha. That was a time when the GP5000 was the tyre to have but they didn’t have a hookless version. It was the question everyone asking back then. 🤣.

Look forward to seeing how the warranty issue goes. Surely if hubs are. Stuffed after only a handful of rides , the whole wheelset is unfit for purpose ? Thanks for the replies 👍🏻

I have checked with zipp dealer in singapore. Bearing is not under warranty due to manufacturer error.

Dura Ace hubs are amazing to be fair.

Thanks.

You still have to use the correct bearings. I know a few on here say otherwise, but I can not tell you how many times we have sold tiny annoying creaks by just fitting the proper Zipp bearings. Baffles me.

Might work. The LU means single seal. NTN is the brand. Nice brand too. C3 is the clearance between balls and race. Let us know how you get on

Ideally... A DT Swiss 240 with steel freehub 'upgrade'. Out of those 3 I would go Hope RS4.

I don’t think Mantel did much to help you there. 😞

@@Mapdec I agree, never bought again from Mantel or actually Zipp whelels. Great video btw.

@@cycling7553 thank you.

Wheel building has sadly become quite cost prohibitive these days. We still build lots of wheels, but that FFWD is the sort of thing we would usually build. We can’t get close to that price though, and the build quality is the same as a builder could achieve. Arguably better as they have calibrated rigs for detension and testing.

If in doubt, buy the genuine Zipp bearings.

Thank you. You should consult the manual. They are hookless and so require tubeless tyres that are specified suitable for hookless rims.

To anyone that says "it is a standard 61903 bearing" well, clearly it isn't if you can't use a standard off the shelf NTN bearing.

If the bearings are advertised as being standard but they can't be replaced with standard bearings, is that not a violation of UK consumer protection law?

The bigger picture is don't buy bicycles with proprietary parts. Getting harder all the time.

Guess it depends on your climate. A big part of our work is cutting spokes out of wheels that have corroded in place and are suffering breakage after breakage.

@@Mapdec I'm located in Germany and I do get a lot of wet weather and the occasional deep winter with salty roads. Like I said: I did have that issue, too. I know that Enve suffered this problem severely and switched to brass nipples for this reason. But in my experience, a good quality aluminium nipple like Sapim's polyax will not have this problem because it is that durable. It only really happens where the anodization is either scratched or of bad quality and the bare aluminium contacts the carbon. And with Sapim nipples it doesn't really happen anymore. I do understand however that some people want to play it safe.

Enve are ok as long as you live by the letter of their tech docs. Even fitting the wrong rim tape will land you in trouble.

Hey Ryan. There is a comment from Hambini above that explains better. Basically they are a different fit tolerance, learning they will fit a bit loose and start to creak.

@@Mapdec ah ok. Cause my set crapped out after about 500km n replaced with enduro n not a single drama since.

What sort of conditions are your riding in? My 240s hubs are at 8k miles on original bearings and feel like new.

@@davidgeorge9233 I mostly do Audax type riding, long days away from main roads, mudguards on most of my bikes and I do go out in the wet. 12500km YTD, 11500km last year how much of that is turbo miles not sure but a fair chunk.

Dura Ace hubs are bloody amazing.

@@Mapdec any knowledge about if they use brass nipples? I’ve looked at dura ace but wasn’t sure btwn those and ffwd.

Agreed, I've a set of GRX wheels, after a winter of use grease looked like new. The other wheels that did the same sort of work are an OEM set of DT swiss, and another set of OEM wheels with Novatech hubs, both go through freehub bearings fast in the wet. I actually wonder if the mudguard stays direct water into the axle?

Very true

Any suggestions of such hubs, preferable light ones 24 holes for road?

@@erik.landen DT Swiss 180. Shimano Dura Ace,

@@Mapdec naah DTSWISS is cartridge bearing as well. High-end Campagnolo (Fulcrum) hubs are pretty light angular hubs, so are Dura-Ace and Ultegra. Chris Kings are also angular, but not very light, but not so heavy.

You will get a lot of replies to this. It isn’t spoke rub. It sounds like it, you’ll swear it is, but I can guarantee it will be the axle and bearings.

Mine too, l don't the seals work!

lol. Nope.

Ouch. 😞

What for?

Possible. Good point.

For sure. Cup and cone still very much has its place.

Those Boras will last a generation, maybe even 2