Captain of the Keatons. Legend of Zelda afficionado.
I get perspective and give retrospective on The Legend of Zelda games. I interview fans, play the games, and compose videos and video essays on various games from within the series.
The Ice rod in general is why the game isn't linear. You can grab it at the beginning. Also you can get a lot of items in the village. Also there was one time I got annoyed at losing in the Desert Palace and beat the Tower on the mountain first.
These games should actually have been called. 1. The adventure of Link 2. The adventure of Link, the sleeping princess. 3. The adventure of Link, Power of the gods. 4. The adventure of Link, The awakening. 5. The adventure of Link, Ocarina of time. 6. The adventure of Link, The windwaker. 7. The adventure of Link, Oracle of seasons 8. The adventure of Link, the dminish cap. 9. The adventure of Link breath of the wild. 10. The adventure of Link, tears of kingdom. All these names makes sense. Legend of MEANS THAT IT'S PRIMARLY ABOUT THAT PERSON.
Yeah we were all fooled by Zelda at least once. Adventure is supposed to mean freedom but in Zelda there is no freedom to go where you want. The only reason you will end up roaming around to begin with is figuring out what the only correct direction is. Zelda is linear and cryptic which is the worst kind of combination. I cannot stand it. Zelda betrayed me.
I can understand why you feel that way. By that logic though, Breath of the Wild would have solved your issue. I’m not as sold on the need for open world as others are but hey if that’s your bread and butter, well eat up.
Zelda II is one of the first games I had for the NES, and at the time it was amazing. In my neighborhood we had a bit of a mutual-game-lending thing going on and for a year or so Zelda II was pretty much always in demand.
My first memory of Link to the Past was in a daycare in 1993 as a child… maybe 1994… I loved the colors and the fighting of random enemies in the fields but I was 5 or 6… I couldn’t read. I didn’t know all that. All I liked was walking around Hyrule and fighting different monsters
@@keatonreviews lol I have kids too… 1993 was a different beast!! Ultimately I stayed away from Zelda until the n64 and Ocarina. I felt so excited. My dad got me the game and it came with multiple perks: A Zelda shirt, a CD of the game soundtrack, and a free unofficial guide to beating the game… even with the guide, it took forever to beat, since the guide only had screenshots and quick explanations
My beef with the criticism of Zelda 2 is when the people who have never played it, and the younger generations who don't take the technology limitations of the past into consideration when 💩ing on it. I would love to see them make videos comparing / 💩ing on the Hindenberg versus the Concord, the Ford Model T versus the Lexus LFA, the Steam Locomotive versus the Mag Lev Bullet Train, etc...
@@keatonreviews P.S. The other 2 main reasons are; That it's a 2D game. Many people agree that if it was named anything other than Zelda, it would be considered a hidden gem. It's difficulty. The newer / younger generations have been wussified by the rewind feature and instant, any place save states.
yes. I will agree that the impact of Zelda: A Link to the Past is important and needs to be acknowledged. I also feel that it should be left there, in the past as a piece of important history. my perception of nostalgia has become very, "I don't care for nostalgia at all, please move on and make new games and new franchises". Stop relying on the oldie goldies for your bread and butter.
I'll add that in the past 10 years I have become more and more disenchanted by Nintendo's business practices and lack of understanding of Western markets. They also don't understand networking and have really bad online support for their games, with terrible latency. I want them to do something new partly cause, I don't believe that they can. I think the audience would revolt and they would die. They have built their empire on sand I feel and it's only a matter of time before it starts to fall. It may be 20 years, it may be 40 years from now. But I don't see them as a progressive company moving the industry forward.
Lol, this is usually people that were born in the 90s that say this, because it was the first video game they remember playing as kids. Even when I was a teen (might have been 15 or 16 when DKC came out), I didnt find that much substance in that game other than "wow, they made the SNES run really fast with prerendered sprites!".
This was a dope interview! Lmao unlike RPG Archive, I can't talk about this game seeing as that I didn't grow up with it, and the one time I played through it from beginning to end, I struggled quite a bit 😂 Hahaha omg RPG was the voice of Miyamoto?? I can see why people absolutely love this game, though. It has a lot going for it. The visuals, music, and gameplay are all fantastic, and it continued to build on what the franchise is today. I know I'm super biased and completely wrong, but I like the original more hahaha. I'm shocked to hear RPG despises Link's Awakening! I feel like it's super charming and accessible :] Minish Cap! I still need to finish that game!
Ahoy Omega! Lol we all know Miyamoto loves a good RPG, right? haha I could see Link to the Past being tricky especially compared to the NES titles. The scope is a bit larger so it's not as quick to brisk through. The beauty of the Zelda series is that we're all right in our opinions and wrong. It's amazing and annoying at the same time. Really?? I feel like I'm hard pressed to find people who are into Link's Awakening. I'll have to have you come back when I'm up to it. Cheers! Keep Zeldering it up!
When it was released it wasn’t a big deal cause it was only the 2nd one. Everyone I knew liked it even though it was super hard. Not unbeatable like many NES games. But I only beat it like twice as a kid.
If you like the original Zelda, try Spiritual Warfare -- it's a surprisingly good zelda-like on an unlicensed NES cart. The Bible theme is great, too - you unlock the Fruits of the Spirit to bash your enemies, and when you excorcise a boss demon you recover a piece of the Armor of God. But the thing that is so great about Spiritual Warfare is, in lieu of a series of dungeons, most of the game takes place in the overworld. So it has a much bigger map. The settings are varied and interesting, and there are nine regions if I recall correctly. Definitely worth checking out if you like NES Zelda 1
Zelda 2 was fucking amazing. When it came out, everyone loved it. I was like 5 years old, but I remember. The fact that it has been unfairly maligned in the years since its release is a reflection on other cultural elements
The narrative must've got spun over time. Online discourse and the future of the Zelda series are clearly the primary contributing factors. I've found that when newcomers dig a little deeper, there's a great game in Zelda 2 waiting to be unearthed.
I enjoyed this interview! I do like that perspective, that ALTTP is an amazing game, but I might not wanna rush off to go play it-I can see that angle. I'll say for me, the soundtrack, and also trying different routes, is what I've grown to play the game when I can. It's very humbling to revisit it after not playing it for a long time-you can get sidetracked in the dungeons lol I would love to see another 2D Zelda game, in the style of ALTTP, on console. It was great to see A Link between worlds though!
Right! It's honest which I can appreciate. Man that ice dungeon messed me up pretty bad the last playthrough or two -- and I thought I knew what I was doing! lol I can't wait to replay LBW, was debating skipping straight to it but I think the chronology timeline is important for me to stick with for now. Thanks Thumb Bros! Keep running and punning!
James Rolf's influence over the NES nostalgia boom and the online discourse of the 00's and 10's cannot be understated and it's hilarious because he was satire and not meant to be taken so seriously and yet...
Right?? He was massively popular at the time. Obviously he's not the only culprit and his video is mostly defending the title but if we're thinking "negative videos on Zelda 2," what is the first channel that comes to mind? I know my pick.. I rest my case!
@@keatonreviews Even if he did defend the title I'll bet money his copycats didn't, and that's what I was alluding to. Rolf inspired an entire generation of people to make angry videos about retro games.
I feel like most complaints about Zelda 2 are preferential... people don't like the scrolling and platforming, or they don't like the art style, or they just think the game is too old. When it comes to actual design concerns, I feel like there are only three significant issues: death pits and hit knockback, cryptic puzzles, and difficulty spikes. And even then, those issues were perfectly acceptable (and honestly done EXTREMELY well by Zelda 2) in the 1987. In the 80s, games were about $60, which is closer to $160 today due to inflation. And we didn't have the internet to look up solutions. So the games would pad their playtime by throwing in difficult challenges and vague instructions. Knockback into pits: Future Zelda games do this a lot better where you are just warped back to the beginning of the room and you lose a few heart containers. While I think that knockback into pits is a cheap way to insta-kill Link, it was a way to warp back to the beginning, to make you have to walk all the way back around to where the challenge was (hopefully getting extra experience along the way). As cryptic as Zelda 2 gets, EVERYTHING can be figured out with some patience and trial and error. NPCs tell you basically everything you need to know, with a few caveats: some NPCs won't tell you anything until you annoy them enough, and some NPCs will change their dialogue after you have completed certain tasks. Beyond that, I would say there are five puzzles that aren't explained well, but you can stumble into them. The game wants you to walk on every tile, step into every room, and cast every spell when you are stuck. And it wants you to take notes. Fortunately, your options are pretty limited on what you can do at any given time.
I don't mind the death pits or knockback, especially compared with Castlevania; it adds some stakes to the game. I agree majority of the game is well explained. The concept isn't too far off from Zelda 1 anyway where they want you communicating with peers for strategies. If you've played through any Zelda game, you can figure out most of what the game lays in front of you.
@@keatonreviews I think that the most cryptic aspects of Zelda 2 are finding the actual clues. Such as…. 1. Two of the quest items are found by walking down the road and pressing B (water and mirror) 2. If someone doesn’t want to talk to you, you need to keep on talking to them (especially the monsters in the houses) 3. If a house is empty, then you need to talk to the walls.
If you haven't played the Zelda II Remake by hoverbat yet, it totally made this game so much more enjoyable for me and has a ton of extra features that really makes it feel new while still being quite difficult, don't miss it!
Looks awesome! Can't wait to play it. The original is no slouch though; I'd really recommend people to try it for themselves before jumping into the fanmake.
I feel the link to the past is the pinnacle of the classic Zelda games. They refined it from the first two. Ocarina of Time was a great jump forward for the series and brought a lot of new great elements. So much so Ocarina of Time feels as Zelda entered into a new beginning for the series.
It's really leaps and bounds more marvelous than Zelda 1 or 2. Not to take anything away from those games, it's just that the scope of Link to the Past's improvements was and still is breathtaking.
I had a copy at release. There was no internet. Only magazines. And word of mouth so.... if you weren't there. I can see how it wouldnt be fun. Show my note to river man was way too cryptic for sure. And if you can't make it through death mountain. You suck. I've completed it on emu. 3DS. NES. Game cube. Not yet on switch. Finish it before you say a single word.
The Death Mountain stretch is long, but I think the difficulty for that portion is exaggerated. River Man made more sense to me than spell spell and clearing the random patch of grass to reveal Hidden Kasuto but other than that, I was pretty clear on where to go. As a kid though, I'm sure I'd've gotten stuck too.
The difference between now and then is back then those where the first game like that no one knew what to expect now there's kajillion games similar and the accumulated experience and knowledge is vast plus internet it is easier to figure things now
I had this game as a kid. I had FINALLY beaten death mountain. My neighbor powered off the console without holding the reset button and my game was gone forever.
I stumble into this back when it was new that was magical gold cartridge awesome music never hated it few days later played the first this was like the third new game I ever played in my life after Mario and Castlevania
Idk who this dude talking about Z2 is, but the Grey carts weren't released until 1992/1993 when they started doing the Classic Series line. The gold carts were produced for years. The Grey carts are much more uncommon, as they didn't come out until after the SNES was released.
I'll tell you where the bad reputation comes from. The people who said that about this game years ago on the internet were kids when they played this game. I had Zelda 1 and Link's Adventure both when I was a kid and played them to death. Now, even in the days before the internet, when gaming was brand new, as a little kid, I could beat the first Zelda game. I could even beat the second quest of the first Zelda game. But Link's Awakening, although I played it all the time as part of the maybe 12 or so NES games I had as a kid, it was impossible. Im-POSSIBLE. The combat was hard. Death Mountain was at the beginning of the game and was a nightmare of difficulty. The RPG systems didn't help, it wasn't straightforward and easy to understand like Zelda 1. And no one knew where to go or what to do, in what order. So now fast-forward 15 years or so, the internet is a thing now, all the people who played this game to death as kids are now grown up and talking on the internet. And as it turns out, we all had the same experience with this game. Try playing this game from scratch, with zero prior knowledge, or even your collected years of playing video games under your belt to draw from, and play it when you're still a little kid, at 9-10 years old. That's why this game has the reputation it has.
1:06:00 One of the CDi zelda games, Zelda's Adventure, tried to do this, using the top down formula but with "realistic" graphics made by taking pictures of the characters and turning them into digitized sprites like mortal kombat or donkey kong country. It was also the first game to let you play as Zelda, funny enough, for as much as that counts... to put it bluntly, it was very ugly
59:09 no, it's his hair, it really is pink. When he prays to open the desert palace entrance he takes off his hat, and his hair underneath is still pink. I think they did it to help his color palette stand out better. If it was blonde or brown it was blend into the rest of him instead of standing out
Wing commander on snes wasn't great, because it was just a port of the original PC game. On PC it was a great series. Wing Commander 1 and 2 had that cartoony 2.5D look, but starting with WC 3 it became a fully 3D space shooter, with fmv cutscenes and mark Hamil 😊
@keatonreviews wing commander is a classic beloved series on PC. I think there are like 4 or 5 games but I've only played 1 thru 3. So nostalgic. I got wing commander 3 for Xmas the same year I got Duke Nukem 3D and Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries. That was a helluva year
I always preferred Zelda 2 to Zelda 1, I loved the world design, the side scrolling gameplay made dungeons way cooler than the bland square rooms of Zelda 1, and I personally found it to be WAY less cryptic, but whenever I tried to tell haters this back in the 2000s or 2010s they just weren't buying it
Even nowadays it’s hard to explain to anyone why one loves or doesn’t love a particular Zelda game. I’ve had this issue with other entries in the series as well - sort of “the Zelda problem.”
22:00 - What Miyamoto is explaining in the interview is that as they approached each game, they usually would expand beyond what they originally set out to do with it. But Zelda II, for what it is, had a straightforward development. (At least according to Miyamoto.) Some of the earliest Legend of Zelda concepts had first-person game play, similar to the old dungeon crawlers. It was as they worked on it that it became the top-down adventure style we all know and love. The game evolved as they worked on it. That's why he considers the project "a little bit of a failure" - it didn't grow beyond the original specs. It had nothing to do with sales figures. No ego stroking. Fun fact: Zelda 64 started as a *remake* of Zelda II, but evolved during development and became Ocarina of Time. OoT arguably "perfected" Zelda II gameplay and became the very foundation of 3D Zelda. That's a hell of a legacy for the "black sheep" of the franchise.
That makes sense. I do still see some ego stroke with the dismissiveness of Zelda 2. But the historical framework is interesting - I should look more into it.
Yeah back in the 80s the game was well appreciated. I thought it was ugly in comparison to Zelda 1, and quite frankly in comparison to a lot of NES games, but I bought it and played it anyway, and passed it, and completely loved it. It always ranked high in Nintendo Power. The concept that Zelda II is the black sheep of the Zelda series is a modern concept, but I never heard anyone talk about it like that back then. There are strange new perspectives on the NES that were not present back in the day. Perspectives such as Castlevania II sucking, or that Zelda II sucks, or that Bubble Bobble was a majorly loved NES game (which is news to me, I never heard anyone talking about that game whatsoever back then), or that Pac-Man is an important NES game (bullshit, why is it on the NES Classic Edition, that's absurd), also modern NES players pronounce Super Mario Bros. as "super mario broze", I never once heard anyone call it that until the 2010s, we all called it "super mario brothers". Anyway, I am very glad that people care about NES so much these days, and are talking about it. Glad that you discovered it. I do not prefer it to Zelda 1, but it is my third favorite NES game. I play it regularly and I have many, many copies of the game. It is solidly my second favorite game in the Zelda series. Somewhat unfortunately, I don't want to play Zelda II on an NES or a Famicom anymore because "Zelda is Adventuresome" (Zelda II PC Enhanced Version) came out and can only be played on PC, and it is such an improvement over the original Zelda II, that this is now clearly the definitive way to play Zelda II from now on. I just wish that "Zelda is Adventuresome" would be somehow ported to NES or at least to SNES, if NES is not possible. That's how I would play it. But for now, I will only be playing Zelda II on PC enhanced version. I just wish so badly that I could own a playable cartridge of it somehow.
It’s thanks to voices like yours that we can memorialize what it was like back in the day so thank you for sharing. I hear great things about the enhanced version! Who knows? The rom cart scene is pretty popular to my understanding. I could see it getting brought over some day in the near future.
@@keatonreviews that would be awesome if it did get brought over as a ROM. I can hope. Anyway, thank you also for making a way of memorializing NES properly as well. Good video.
