@@LarryeWhite61 I have been curious myself about them. I have ran them and seen not too much different than HP's, but my main thought is if I could get a spare windshield to do some tests, I feel like the Xtreme bullets would do more damage on the other side of it VS a JHP, especially when loaded low like .38 Special.
@@GunSam I have only used them on hard barriers. ie..solid cinder blocks. Needless to say, all calibers of Underwood Xtreme Penetrators are impressive.
They should try making the same projectile design but out of solid copper. Would prob work more like the Lehigh/ Underwood loadings. Cool test, thanks for sharing 👍
Kinda of reminds me of a solid version of the old Glaser Safety slugs. Insanely high velocity but all that damage translated into shallow wounds. I wonder if they still make that old ammo.
Wow, that took me back. I checked my 38 ammo shelf, and I still have a box of New Generation Ammunition 38sp+P “Sentry” rounds, 80 gr. roundnose plastic bullet in a jacket, claiming 1,300 fps. Original price was $27.99 and I bought ‘em at a show for $15. Label says Batch 1282-43/99 so I suspect they were made the 43rd day of 1999. Never tried ‘em, maybe should send to you. 😄Oddly, the red plastic is in a jacket that looks like nickeled brass, but loaded into plain brass. Gimmick ammo like this might meet a requirement for low penetration, but as your test shows, it is seldom reliable for all purpose use. I suspect blast and muzzle flash will be excessive, though recoil minimal. Thanks for the test! 👍
The rounds made of same material (I think) for shooting steel are great. No spalding. Always wondered how these “groovy” bullets would work, thanks for the test.
I liked your video, but interesting that several other gel testing videos with the ARX round have shown it worked really well? So I don’t know what to believe anymore.
Kind of get the feeling that Preferred Defense hates rimmed cartridges. The autos were consistent and powerful (chronograph), the revolver rounds were nigh on to crappy.
I wonder if the Taurus has a little misalignment on some chambers...that may explain the fragmentation. A sintered bullet will come apart once it has been compromised, as would happen if the gun was "shaving" part of it off.
I agree. It looks like the structural integrity of the projectile may have been compromised by a miss-aligned cylinder. And your right the projectile works better when fired from a semi=automatic.
I like lead! jacketed or not, copper solids are pretty good, barnes expanders in 357 i like. That is where I stop lol! Thanks for showing this test, confirms what I thought about these rounds lol! Have a good weekend
You're 10mm test really made me interested in this ammo type. I think velocity is key with this tech, the wound channels look devastating and make it difficult for surgical repair with the debris left behind. You should see them with 5.56!... The other interesting thing is the possibility of making these rounds at home with a mold for people who reload. Potentially using an epoxy with copper shavings could be done for cheap
Epoxy is too brittle. It would probably shatter inside the barrel, damage the barrel, and possibly explode the barrel if the powder melted the epoxy fast enough inside the barrel. You would need a laboratory to create the perfect type of plastic capable of being part of a bullet. But I like your idea. With the right amount of science, someone could mold their own bullets without too much trouble.
I was thinking about these for a home defense situation to try to prevent accidental hits on family members. I got a couple boxes of Inceptor in both 9 and 38 a while back but haven’t had a chance to try them out yet. Thanks for doing this test. My judgement is that the 9mm might be ok but the 38 special is not gonna work for my needs. It seems like it might not even make a good plinking round due to the point of impact being all over the place.
I'm impressed that the 9mm in the long barrel got close to 500 ft-lbs energy. The 38Spl in the short barrel (apart from one bullet disintegrating) is showing classic signs of undercharge. That is, the burn is random and therefore that's why the velocities are all over the place. A bulkier powder should have been used to get better case filling. Either that or use a cork wad like in shotguns to hold the powder in a smaller volume. I think LB4L has experimented with a similar idea for light loads. I'm not sure why the 4" barrel doesn't show this as the way the 2" barrel does. Perhaps powder burning while the bullet is in the barrel is still able to hold the pressure up.
They should jacket these things. I think the velocity would be similar. The recoil is insane though, and by that I mean like .22 LR felt recoil with the 9mm in the M&P.
@@GunSam Can you clarify what you meant about the recoil? Is it a lot or a little? For the 38Spl, I think 110s would ultimately have performed better. And in the 9mm, your typical 115s would probably have performed better. I definitely want to do that light and fast vs heavy and slow test with XTPs.
I picked up some Norma 65 grain NXD 9mm which is similar to the ARX to try in a Hellcat. From your test it looks like the Hellcat would be optimal. Got it from the Norma online store for $18/20. Also got some of their 108 grain 9mm MHP to try. They had free ship on $49 so it was a good opportunity to get a small amount.
Nice test, but I just ordered some Rem 158 LRN and some 158 LSWHP +P. Like your previous tests, not bad. All the best. ** Follow-up. The Remington 158 LRN smokes like black power, the 158 LSWC+P smokes a little less, but it smokes. Both left the gun very dirty. I will not be using those again.
You know there are some advantages. If you are concerned about neighbors behind a wall or having a very light EDC then this maybe the ticket. Six bullets of standard 158 gr 38sp weigh 3.276 vs. 2.047 Oz. Over one ounce lighter with polymer bullets.
Think I’ll stick with old school ammo. For my j frame I like to stick with 38spl +p 125 gr ranger or 135 golddot ammo. Or .357 low recoil 135gr golddot. And for 9mm I and open to a bit more, HST, ranger, Winchester defend, gold dot, or critical duty. Thanks for all these ammo tests! Great vids!
Thx for the demo. Have you tried the Norma NXD 9 mm? Personally I am using Norma MHD for a defense round. I'm wishing they would make the NXD in .38 or .357 Magnum but haven't seen it yet.
I would assume that the high velocities for the 9mm are to get the blowback to cycle. The inconsistent 38 velocities are likely because of a combination of case capacity, powder charge, OAL, and chamber pressure. I'm guessing pressure is too low. My thought would be to shorten the case to 38 short/long colt, with all other components being the same. Or, just use different ammo.
I'm currently using the Norma version of this (NXD). I'm guessing Norma licensed the tech because it's obviously the same bullet but tweaked. I've fired significant amounts of the 80(Ruger brand) & 65 gr loads in 9mm. I've found it 100% reliable in everything I own from a 4.7" P320 to a 3.1" Shield+. It's basically a sintered bullet so barrier performance is not a goal, fwiw. Curiously, the terminal effects from 10% vs Clear Gel vary noticeably. I use it because I mostly pocket carry & 13 rounds of 65 gr bullets carry easy. As for Terminal Ballistics, if it goes bang & cycles I'm happy. When you get into wounding, barrier defeating, & cartridge integrity/sealing, your best choice is FC Tactical Bonded & I don't even know if it's accessible in 2022.
9mm is pretty easy to get good ammo for. Simply use Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot and you will do well. If the pistol is very light I will use standard pressure, if it's a little heavier like over 20 OZ I use +P versions.
If Arnold Schwarzenegger was a Terminatior at the time it wouldn't make much difference what you where shooting unless you happen to have a Plasma Rifle in a 40 Watt range in your kit bag!With that fragmentation with the .38 you have the bonus of a small bore shotgun thrown in for good measure!
I got some of the 38 special and something’s wrong with the box I got I guess half of em fit and half of em won’t go in all the way haven’t shot it yet
You realize that I don't watch my videos everyday despite being my own and I do a lot of content. You weren't specific on what you mean that you do not understand.
@Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ why wouldn't you carry the 9mm ARX preferred defense in a gun with a decent barrel length? Penetration, fps, accyracy, and wound channels are all consistent throughoutthe video, with the 9mm. I just wanted more explanation on why you weren't impressed with the 9mm version of this ammo.
Mainly because expanded hollow points will make a bigger hole, cause more damage, plus they are proven in law enforcement. I really don't want to be the guinea pig that takes a chance they would be effective for me. I have even had these type of bullets fragment in the barrel of different guns and not impact where I aimed. Just not ideal at all.
I always ASSUMED that this was a bad design, created for profit and not effectiveness, and I thank you for making that visible. And the inconsistent loading PROVES their insincerity.........................elsullo
Looking at the gel tests of the .38 Special, I don't see where it does any better than many other rounds that out there. I suspect that it costs a lot more, so I just don't see the point of it.
It was actually pretty reasonably priced, maybe a tad less than regular ammo like Critical Defense, but pretty close to the same price, that being said they only give 20 rounds for .38 Special as where Critical Defense gives 25.
I don't believe faster speed in that bullet is giving it any more penetration from what I'm seeing here personally I don't see any benefit in using this ammunition that you are showing here but thank you for the video
@@chrism.6371 Sam tested some Hornady FTX 110gr 38Spl+P against Remington HTP 110gr 38Spl+P. Both rounds seemed to perform quite well out of the short barrel. I've shot the HTP out of my M&P340 and they are quite manageable. Both seem cost effective depending on your definition of "hyper ammunition" in this day and age.
@@Fudmottin thanks for the info. I carry 357 mag. But my mom keeps an air weight in her purse. I try to keep the best ammo I can within her reach. Not that she can’t handle recoil, she’s 74 and still has a death grip. At this point I’ve settled on HTP 125 and 110 sjhp rounds (+p). The exposed lead concerns me, but that’s it.
@@chrism.6371 Both can ruin someone's day for sure! I would use either of those loads. Metallic lead isn't really dangerous. And the older you get, the less dangerous it gets. Certainly the rounds in the gun are not going to be an issue. I always wash my hands after handling any ammunition.
Please test it out of the .380. In gel and MDF. Anecdotally, i know a guy who put a wounded antelope down with this round from an LCP at contact range. Went through a rib, then heart and lungs, opposite rib, and shoulder. Found it under the hide when skinning it. One large piece and two small pieces of bullet were there. Make of it what you will...
May be redundant given the inconsistency, but I've always wondered if the 357 magnum version of this ammo would be a lighter recoil option in a short barrel.
That .38 is crap. That being said, energy be damned, getting hit with something moving at those speeds would immediately put the thought of dying in your head. Would not buy, nice test. Also, and hard to prove, the metal bits of the ammo might be very cheaply formed and the plastic makes up for the shape. Would explain the huge differences in felt recoil and velocities anyway. Take a misshapen chunk of metal and smooth it out with polymers.
The only bullet I've ever used it has plastic in it is horny extreme defense 9 mm other than that I wouldn't shoot a plastic bullet I just use brass round nose in my 38 and of course I've got some hollow points in defensive loads I hate lead round nose bullets all lead bullets do for a modern revolver is fail up the rifling
Great test, I’d avoid this ammo like the plague. Too many better options out there than to mess with these. Those wild swings on velocity for the .38 means inaccurate assembly equipment and crappy QA on their assembly line, so no. Thanks for the heads up Sam, saved us some $$$ and possibly a trip to the ER if one of these subpar rounds wildly swings to the higher end of the velocity/pressure scale! 👍
There's no standard number though. I have seen tests done where as little as 1% is lost. The average is about 5% or 50 FPS for every 1,000 FPS with no gap. So if you had a 9mm auto and got 1,000 FPS then used a revolver with the same gun travel and ammo you would get 950 FPS.
