(1041) Review: Attacking the Bowley 

That is probably true, but heaven help you if the foil falls off inside the lock while in a locked door. $170 wasted. I think I'll give it a try though because all I have to do if the foil falls off and jams up the mechanism is pull out the pins and take it apart to clean out.

Here is the link if you needed. www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=61799&hilit=bowley+lock There is information on tolerances and info from Ryan Bowley himself. The impressioning might be located in the advanced section though.

I've been wanting to see a clear demonstration on this lock since the first go fund page!!!! THANK YOU BILL!!!! Now that it's clear that it IS rather bump "proof" I would think impressioning is going to be the only way to defeat (minus a 3/8 in carbide tipped drill bit and a WHOLE bunch of misery) ... Unmounted, foil would be worth a try, especially if you use an adhesive foil or some super glue to try to prevent the foil from coming off..... If it were mounted however I wouldn't risk a foil impression for the same reason Bill gave, also given the steel key, you're not going to get any marks on it to do a traditional impression if you could get a key blank... HOWEVER... Using the bump key that Bill made there COULD be other options.... You just have to go back in time a little bit... fitting since the warded design... (then again, as a locksmith who specializes in antiques, I MIGHT just be thinking every problem requires a hammer, if you catch my meaning, still here's my thoughts) First thought just to effect an unlock would be wax (I use this technique to open old, but in good condition, lever locks with curtains and / or wards that make picking a PITA, and steel key blanks that don't mark) . Rough up the "bump key" a bit with some sandpaper, then carefully "fill" the cuts with wax, allow the wax to cool and clean it up with a sharp knife. Put the key in the fridge for an hour or so (a thermos of ice water works as well) then just check that the wax is well and truly stuck to the key and impression as usual. It'll usually get an unlock, and the wax won't prevent other options even if it chips off and the attempt fails. (worst case scenario, a pencil torch will clear out any wax without getting the lock hot enough to damage to door). When it works, it works fast, and you get a decent idea of the cuts this way so you can prepare a blank, but it's definitely not a working key you can rely on for multiple uses. The second, which would actually produce a working key (at least for a fair number of unlocks) works the same way, except instead of using wax, you use soft solder. Then you impression the key using a file, just like traditional key blank impressioning. (I STILL would prepare an actual blank for the customer in this case, as the solder will wear after heavy use, and then melt off the solder for reuse of the prepped key) Hope this helps in defeating the INfamous (as in MORE than famous) Bowley... (if it does, can I get one of those keys, just in case I run into one? lol)

bosnianbill otherwise use the Hpc clinder eater an mill that dirty bastert out

No available adapter for the proper sheer line cut, and THEN you have tensioning once you've killed the pins.. and that's stainless.... Can the ole "rotary pick" do it?... With a carbide tipped bit, Yep... It's universal... Do I WANT to drill one out? Much like ASSA V-10s or Medeco M3s, but even MORESO.... NOPE!!!! lol

all brilliant ideas are not stupidly simple though

@@xl000 Maybe not all, but the very best are also simple.

Tyrone Ross couldn’t agree more, this lock is extremely impressive and the design and “advanced” tech really inspires. Truly a masterpiece

"We should make the keyway really curved to make it hard to get a pick in there!" "We should put lots of security pins in so that it's difficult to tell what pins are set!" Patrick: "We should take the lock... and push it somewhere else!"

@@xl000 That’s where you’re wrong. The mechanical engineers original statement is not false. I believe the misunderstanding is where in modern times marketing alone has gotten in the world deeply deeply misinformed and where they have stopped the media has picked up. Please give us a list of these things that are genius but are not simple my guess is they could be done simple however to give trademarks are registering a very complicated process is used... I’m just a blue-collar working guy but I know it’s simple to make a car that would run 1000 years but it’s very very fucking complicated to make one that’s Designed to run perfect for five years or 50,000 miles and then after that just completely become a lemon but then again those are great ideas that’s just marketing making you think it’s a great idea. Making people think they want this creature cut my comforts or think they want these accessories but most all that crap That’s designed into complicated bills are asked for to start with it’s just a way to get more money out of a product

honestly dude thats what windows are there for. XD

unless it is picked up for prison use, or safes.

Considering his tag line is "stay legal" I don't think anything other than the lock is important to him 😉

@@LSLencrypted I mean... I never thought that lockpicking is something cool to do in freetime other than criminal activities... but having picked it up myself it's actually really therapeutic and feels more like puzzles that require skill than anything...

Or do what Mr. Claus has been doing for centuries, sneeking in those chimneys!

@@LSLencrypted Not *that* important... Can already see he's done significant damage to it by bumping

put a plate after the cover, so it doesn't slide, then no problem. actually, you could probably drill it out.

* its

xl et'z

You mean "Conception" not inception

No, no I didn't

Inception comes from latin, incipere, which means 'begin' and later evolved into the modern english "inception" which still only means "beginning of" in any context, referencing any concept, activity, idea, or plan, or any other origin point in time. If anything used the word incorrectly, it would more likely be the film's choice as a title, as the film does not at any point deal with a concept being generated, and always deals with the prospect of ideas coming from outside sources, which also were not the originators of them.

I think that he was right, that he had just pulled the key out of the notch. To even be applying pressure to attempt the bump, that has to be in already. Personally I'm curious if a bump key could be made with a chamfer on that stub that would create a rotational force at a specific timing to the bumping action. You almost wouldn't need to apply tension other than to see if you were successful, because the tip would do the "knocking" rotationally as the cuts make the bump. I think you would need to add material to the key, however, maybe blob weld on there, and mill it back down. The security pins would *likely* still trap you, but it might give more of a fighting chance.

there probably isn't room in the notch in the inner brass piece for that, though.

I wonder if you can make a key where the key and the actuator are connected by a spring of some sort. That way the key itself doesn't need to be locked in place and can move.

A bump key can't work because pin 1 (the pin closest to the front or keyhole side of the lock) does not have "tooth" or bump behind it. You are only bumping 4 of the pins, not all 5. The only way this could work is if pin 1 was zero depth (deepest cut) so it does not need to be bumped. As long as Bowley never cuts pin 1 to zero depth, their lock will never be bumped open.

@@imstu2620 Well, you could make a bump key with a bumping surface for pin 1. Not from a Bowley-provided key because there's no steel there -- Bosnianbill's never had a chance of working. But the flat surface behind pin 1 is just a property of the Bowley key, not a property of the keyway, there's plenty of space in there.

Did you order some and if so, how do you like them?

@@youtwitfacemcgee9097 the dude never ordered I'm sure

The Stoned Videogame Nerd what other uses do garden sheds have? Lol

well they dont just fall, they spring into place, considering what we saw in here, but technically if the tension was already there (which it isnt, for a good reason) a bump might be possible, because even if the logic is inverted, the principle stays, this time it is just hoping that the key pins fall faster that the pins of the lock body., probably also a reason why we have springs so that this wont happen so easily, but aside from the different default resting position the basics are the same as for a normal US style lock with the pins on top and the gravity and springs pushing the pins down towards the core.

Lars Hoeksema they're conventional pins.

Falling into place makes sense if one were to consider how the pins interact with the key. In locked position with no key, the pins are shoved fully into the pin Chambers and stay there until the moment you get the key grooves in line with the pins and push the key forward to mate with the notch at the back;, then they drop in, and if the shears line up, unlock it. Relocking it is the reverse; pulling the key lifts the pins and shoving them almost completely into the pin chambers, and turning the idler stores them in the chambers; otherwise you get pins falling out. The key 'peaks' in between all the key grooves do exactly that. Worst case scenario is if one of those peaks get damaged, dented, filed down or removed somehow, you end up with a key stuck in there, and having to disassemble the whole thing to fix it.

And waaaay too annoying

I was thinking the same thing. I think you would need to grind down the flat end of the key that goes flush against the back of the lock as well, and find a way to add an additional shoulder to the rear of the key. Kinda doubt that would fit through the cylinder though...

Just watched it again and you may be right, actually.

While your logic works with a regular type of lock, not for this type. With this lock you are not bumping the pins UP, you are releasing the pins OFF the hill so they drop down into the valley. You are DROPPING the pins into the valley to align the pins In other words: The pin starts on the hill, and when you bump the key it falls down into the valley. If you had perfect timing and luck, you MIGHT be able to catch all the pins falling down at once, but not likely.

I doubt that matters. It appears to me that once they've fallen into that valley you just bump it like a regular lock. The thing that makes it harder is that you tend to disengage the tension thing but still, it doesn't seem impossible. I see what you mean though: The pins are lowered once you push the key into that notch. But if you design the bumpkey just right it should be possible to bump them back up once they've fallen in.

You HAVE to bump the key forward because that is the only way to tension the lock. Where does the last hill go though? You would have to drill out the lock housing to make space for a lengthened key to put an extra hill on (which you could just pick through the hole anyways). And even if you COULD tension the lock in a different way you would hit the lock body and not even be able to get the key in if you had the last bump hill. i.imgur.com/tTH5cBn.png As you can see by my wonderful drawing, you cant add the last bump hill you need. (shown in red) --- Bumping works by hitting the key pin with a hill. Again, you cannot bump backwards because you would have no tension on the lock. You can only bump forwards, and since there is no space for a final hill, this keyway makes it very hard to bump

Chubbysumo something tells me that he'd take a lock made of dry play doh and have fun with it

As long as it's not an antique Master Lock.

I'm keen to see this. Upvote OP's comment, guys.

TheTopMostDog exaxtly

He ever do locks like described here?

Then you aren’t bypassing the lock. You are bypassing the door frame, which can be reinforced very easily.

Of course I meant level 1, NOT level 3! Thank you.😉

So could anyone with a drop of superglue on other locks.

thanks. good to know that they thought of this.

His bump key was long enough to reach into the actuator slot because when he inserted the bump key fully, the key wouldn't turn; the only thing keeping it from turning is the pins.

I agree you bumped it once but cilnder didnt rotate because end of the key is too short and didnt engage with the grove.

Martin Tince you are under the same impression as I was but now I'm not: the key won't rotate because its actuator is engaged in the slot and the pins are not set. If the key's actuator wasn't in the slot it would just keep spinning.

But we're basically talking about getting a lock, and using the key to "pick" it. What's the point anymore the lock clearly won lol

@@shadowfall2011 because then you could purchase a key, turn it into a bump, then use that bump to open a different lock

cnc, bro.