One of the tours I ran this year was around Ireland following much of the Wild Atlantic Way. I took the new 450 Himalayan. Here's my verdict on it as a touring bike. I've turned comments off until Monday when I'm back from my holidays.
A short sperate video adding context to the weight comment I made in the video. As some of you will attest, for a lot of riders it's not going to be a problem. For shorter/older/weaker riders it could be. But go and try it for yourself... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PNgMwIooG2A.html
Did the same test today, the 1250 was heavier 😂 just kidding , still I don't have the issue the bike for me feels nimble enough, but fun to see the difference ,
Every time I tour on my 411 it makes this 62 yr old smile. Im lucky I could buy ( and have in the past) any bike on planet earth. Seeking better will not bring joy only contentment with your choice will achieve that. So along we go me and my 411 keeper.
I rode away from the dealer on a new 411 on the 1st of March this year. Obviously at this time I could not have road tested the new one but I could have waited for and bought the 450. I'm not saying the 450 is a bad bike, and neither is Nathan, and I still haven't had a go on one, but from road tests that had come out at the time when dealers were selling the 411 for £4000 on the road I just wasn't sure about the 450. I thought the 411 was a great buy. I'm really glad I went for it, got 2200 miles on it now and I love it. I got the Enfield boxes and rack at a bit of a discount and with my Acerbis handguards I've forked out £4500 up to now. I believe the new 450 with tubeless rims is £6200, don't know if you have on the road costs on that price.
@@davidrobinson4118 Just o add that the CF Moto has tubeless as standard. It also has other features anyone considering dirt use would likely want and save any prospective buyer quite a bit in upgrades. Folding brake, gear levers and even mirrors. Oh, and by all accounts the headlight actually lights up the road, A common complaint of the new RE.
@@davidrobinson4118 Such different bikes (with obv similarities). Agree with you. 411 is so different. Got mine for sub £3k with 4500 miles on it & dome decent mods. New 450 with mods around £7k (upgraded can, tyres, heated grips, barkbusters etc). My 411 can sit at 70mph doing 5k revs. A relaxed characterful bike which is not premium, not fast but comfy capable heavy & underpowered. A future classic. Nathan is spot-on.
Thanks for that. I'm 61, my only bike is the 411, hadn't had a bike for 35 years. It's been super on long trips and I have huge fun while green-laning. I'am not ready to give up my 411, unless I progress in rallies enough to need something more powerful. Your review on the 450 has now put the idea of buying one out the window. A bike needs to be alot better than the 411, before I give it up. Looking forward to your reviews on CF MOTO
I am 59 and I have just been touring the Peak District on my 411 for a long weekend. I have had it three years after a break from biking for 20 years. It has built my confidence steadily. So glad I chose it (to be honest mainly because of Itchy Boots and your reviews). I realised on this latest trip that I have lost my nerves and was gleefully bowling round the Peak District bends. Had a grin on my face the whole time. Even when you 'over cook' it a bit in a bend it is forgiving. Great bike, I won't be buying a 450.
As a 5'7", 62-year-old Scram 411 owner with only 2 years of riding under my belt, this review was particularly pertinent and useful to me. Thanks! And cheers, mate!
I love my 411 Himalayan, and I’m glad I bought it when I did. I appreciate your honesty as many moto-bloggers will just toe the company line. I’ve never known a motorcycle company ask riders what they want, they just aren’t interested in our opinions “as they know best”. Keep up the good work!
I met one of the guys (a professional racer) who worked with the engineers to design the 450. I also got to ride the 411 on an 800km tour through NE India and ride a 450 for a bit for comparison. The 450 felt chunkier, smoother, sturdier, and more powerful than the 411. Both the bikes felt super easy to ride. Given the choice I might have picked the 450 for the 800km ride. I've ridden the 411 through other, rougher parts of the Himalayas and the bike performed like a champ! Fundamentally I think both bikes are different even if they are built for the same purpose. A lot of younger people are totally into the 450. So the designers have definitely built something that will sell like hot cakes. But I agree with one of the comments I read here - the 411 with a 450 engine would probably satisfy more people.
As someone dithering between the two, who has heard the case for the 450 ad nauseam, it's refreshing to hear your perspective. I can only hope your channel has more of the same, but you easily earned a very well-deserved sub! Thank you for a real talk. 👍
Amazing revelation! Nobody else has had the courage to criticise the 450 or even to identify any downsides at all. With brand new 411's now for sale for well under £4k, it it really makes you put the comparison in perspective. I felt from the start that the original 411 had more radical and purposeful styling but to learn the 450 isn't such a progression in the real world is surprising.
From what you say, I like the sound of the old one better, especially when you mention the buzziness. The Scram 411 appeals to me more. Excellent video. Nick
Another brilliant perspective, Nathan. I just tested the 450 and the first thing I noticed was the out-sized effort needed to lift it upright from the side stand. I enjoyed the bike once I was under way but I wouldn't feel confident riding it on a muddy lane. The 350 long stroke engine is much more pleasing, smoother and more relaxed, but it really needs another five horsepower to keep ahead of HGVs on the motorways.
How weird Mr Postman - you've just expressed everything I felt - but without me even seeing this bike! I've been bantering with a friend who told me this was the bike I should have got (Instead of the Voge 300R) and I told him that if/when I buy an RE - it would be the 411..... 11/10 for common sense and honesty, as always
Hay your probably “ the small capacity expert 👍☝️, just to address the 450 problems. 1. Chain and sprocket change for longer legs on road speeds . 2. Taller touring screen & 3. THE big one ☝️ side stand - lean angle ( in the past I have fitting hockey pucks the stand bases ( that lean over to far ) at least 3 bikes . Works a treat , cheap , solid rubber and as a bonus gives the bike better spreed on sand soft ground etc . And I agree ☝️ I’m 56 and happy to just cruise along ( most of the time ) I have a 300 Rally and a Moto Guzzi V85tt - I know you had one . Regards Paul from Australia.
Thanks Paul. Yes totally, lots of ways to remedy it. I was out on the 400X Triumph yesterday. It made me realise that what I don't like about the Himalayan is the engine. That Triumph engine is so flexible, strong power, a bit low geared but where the RE is hunting between 2nd and 3rd, the Triumph can be in 2nd, 3rd or 4th.... there's just so much flex in the power. Makes it so much easier and enjoyable to ride. Triumph engine in the Himi chassis and we'd have a winnter. Would like to try the taller screen. Again, the Triumph with no screen has less turbulence than the stock Himi screen. It's odd. And agreed, side stand pucks would be good, but I think for those who are struggling with the bike as standard they're still going to struggle with the top heavy weight, especially in dirt, tight situations etc. The last two days I've had 5 different riders take out the 411, the 450 and the Triumph. Three went away to buy 411s. No one wanted the Triumph or 450 Himi. The biggest thorn in the 450s side is the bloody 411! But look. I think the 450 for the right rider it's going to be an absolute winner. A younger stronger rider perhaps, who wants a great road/trail bike and to ride with a bit of spirit. Perfect for that job. Keep us posted on how you're getting on with yours.
@@jdabel1many people won't find it an issue. But speak to a dealer and ask how many potential customers are having a problem that they didn't have on the previous bike. A lot of old boys bought Himalayans. It's a big number of customers to lose.
Taller touring screen - I think that depends on where you ride. Riding these bikes in India - I wanted the wind to hit me - was the only way to stay cool.... ish. Also, rarely was I riding fast enough or long enough at high speeds where the wind got tiring.
Wow, Nathan this is so spot on, I don't think I have ever ridden a bike that so endeared the rider like the 411. I sold mine because my wife wanted to ride pillion. It was a very reluctant sale with only the motorway leg of the trip to the dealership to buy an SM 650 alleviating some of my sadness. I've never really embraced the new 450 and said so on release. Like you say to the none 411 owners what you never had you cannot compare. But the 411 is a future classic for sure. Great video mate, ride safe✌️
I'm a 64yr old who has had a 411 (which I liked... but too slow and not enough power to get you out of the shit) I really love this bike and I've had a few. I think they have built a way better bike, I don't think it's a race bike, but I do get about having to change gears a bit more. At 5.9 it's not difficult to get off the stand... yes it could be a fraction more upright ... but I know its not going to fall over. I'm glad I have bought it, I'm glad the 411 is long gone for me... so I disagree Nathan. I also own a classic 500... which I love so I'm not a speed demon but this IS the bike I wish the 411 had been.
Probably one of the best unbiased motorcycle reviews on RU-vid. A man of Integrity 👏 👏 An honest man. Thank you Nathan, great video as always. I was beginning to lose faith in a lot of the motorcycle videos because of Marketing and Click Bait titles. I was blocked 🚫 by one of our leading UK 🇬🇧 motorcycle vloggers for not liking where he positioned a tool kit bag.
The biggest market for the Himalayan is India. And in India, this bike was what was asked for. The common man cannot afford a 650 twin in India. 400 class is considered the premium market in India. So the designers of the bike were looking at their largest market's demands asking for the exhilaration that they lacked in the class they could afford.
A main concern seem to be lifting it off of the side stand. I am sure, as with the 411's too long sidestand, (and yes, my 411 got blown over a few times, as I live in a windy location), someone will come up with a solution, or a longer stand. Think the issue is whether any alteration will be able to clear the main stand or frame. Much as I like my 411, after test riding the 452, I found it a much better bike for me, and where I ride locally and tour to
I had the 411 , and yes i loved that bike, but i do like the 450 more , i do not see the things you mention but its all depends on the user, i like what they have done, and i defently feel i sit IN the bike just like the 411 , and i think its easier to get on the center stand than the 411 , and the side stand, hmmm i have no problem with it .. i also dont have any issues with vibrations , and i still feel that the 450 has the tractor effect like the 411 , and can accelerate when needed.. the list for me is longer with positive things than the 411
Appreciate your comments on this bike. The 450 has been the incentive for this 5’7’’ 63 year old to become a first time RE owner and I love it. Road handling is superb and the engine loves to be pushed on and is amazingly smooth for a single. I am unlikely to use it off road too much and for my uses I cannot fault it aside from the side stand. You learn to live with it but I can see some being put off by it. Black with the gold wheels makes it a real looker too. Cheers.
I have a Himalayan 411, and a 1050 V-Strom for different trips, thanks for your real review, I'm keeping my bikes as they do as I want and I can afford them !, we can get impression we need more expensive bike's from other youtuber's., I appreciate your thoughts ,faster is not always better, that's why I often choose my 411 over the much faster 1050. Keep producing your vid's Nathan '
As a 411 owner this has answered a few questions for me. I'm going to try a 450 as well as the CFMoto 450MT at some point later this year but my 411 may well remain in the stable owing to the reasons you have highlighted here. Thanks for the honest perspective.
Great honest review, I am at a crossroads with my Himalayan travels and was contemplating the new 450, but in real life touring the scenarios of picking this up off a side stand in all weird and wonderful conditions,and the worries that come with that are Significant. After over 45000km on my Himalayan, U summer it up perfectly with the relaxation and Zen like scenario the 411 puts you in , the aspect of a bike wanting you to go faster is not appealing TBH, I will seriously consider buying a second hand 411 upon arrival in Chennai next month
I spent 3 hours on a 450 demo and thought it was outstanding. I didn't struggle with the side stand or vibrations, but then it had done 1100 miles. I've never ridden the 411 so as you say, that's why the 450 might appeal.
Yeah totally. Perception is everything with this bike so I can completely understand why someone would love it. As I said in the video, it's a great bike for the right rider.
I love your observations - I am 5'8 & 63 as it happens and been a trail rider since the 80's. The best bike I ever had (at the time) was my Yamaha XT250. went everywhere. I was dismayed by the constant year on year of bigger, higher, faster heavier and more agresive.These days I only have one bike so a want something that can do the motorway miles but also light enough to pick-up when off road. I am please that finally, more mid range twin "adventure bikes" are entering the market and the CF moto 450 looks promissing. Loving your stuff and enjoy Iceland.
I bought the 350 classic two years ago, knowing well why and with no regrets up to today. For the same reasons that You are talking about the previous Himalayan. These simple RE machines are one of the most interesting "niche" bikes for people who know what motorcycle riding in real life means, ... and don't get me wrong: I rode quite some bikes for decades, three side-cars outfits and a Laverda 1200 3cylinder aswell ( a sun-day morning bike, a beast...couldn't ride it nowadays anymore, I'm just too old for that). Thanks for Your review : You confirm that I was right to go for ma 350 classic. Greetings from Luxembourg, ride safe. Jean-Marie
Very interesting. I had already pretty well rejected the new 450 as a replacement for my 411 on rather different grounds without attempting a ride on a 450.. Apart from the riding experience I also really like the 411 for two reasons. One I really like the simple rugged design of the 411 with its air cooled engine that is easy to work on and service. Water cooling, silly upside forks with exposed stanchions and ride by wire, all work against that simple, tough, rugged ethos. Two; I prefer the look of the old 411 by a long chalk. I will keep on riding my 411. It should last for a good few years yet.
Brilliant honest review. Being totally confused as to what to buy as a first road bike at 56 years old, pulled between one road touring mate and a green lane mud plugger, I bought a beautiful 1090 KTM. I know, crap decision. Although a great deal of bike for the money, and hugely capable, I wasn't getting the thrill from riding it unless I was doing silly speeds down single tracks with grass down the middle. Yes, I am an ex-MX and enduro rider! I just happened to get a decent ride on the mud pluggers 411, a bike I would never have considered if I'm honest, and I fell in love with the thing. Still pondering my next purchase, this review has reminded me why the 411 is my next bike, and not the 450. Also, great comment further down which you Nathan have noted, which questions who is designing these bikes, and why do the manufacturers always think they know best. Having worked for car manufacturers I can probably answer that if I'm honest!! The reality is most of us could seriously increase the sales of many bike manufacturers by guiding them on what their bikes need to look and feel like. Cheers Nathan, I'll keep watching. Dale Fletcher.
Thanks Nathan for the honest opinions 👍🏻 the 450 has taken everything I love about the 411 away for example the simple air cooled long stroke motor analog clocks etc
I have had mine now for 5 weeks and really enjoying it, I had the 411 before. I do find it more comfortable to ride and whilst I am not a seasoned rider (got my licence 2 years ago) I find it much more engaging to ride. I should add that I fit bang on as a typical rider, 64 and 5ft 9!! I enjoy the handling, gearbox is slick. I went out yesterday for ride around my local area and one track that I would do without hesitation on the 411 proved to be more challenging on the 450. That may well have been done to me and being on a newer bike. Not fussed about the side stand as easy to change, hitchcocks will have one available pretty soon. Good review though as you tell it how it is.
I love your review I thought similar and my friend who owns a RE dealership has just bought up 7 of the 411 Himalayan bikes to sell in his uk bike shop. I’m very tempted to swap my scram for one rather than the new 450.
Nathan, A very comprehensive and open minded review. I agree with your points on the old 411 Himalayan model, I have yet to take a test ride on this new 450 model but I plan to soon. Sometimes the Manufacturers don't seem to listen to the feedback from the Bike users across the age band. If they did they might produce a bike in that segment that people really want. I have considered trading up to the new 450 but I will wait until I can test ride the 450 with a lot of miles on the clock, to get a better overall picture of the bike. I currently have had my second 411 Himalayan ( purchased new now on 6500miles) upgraded with the Hitchcock's Valves, Hitchcock's heavy duty Clutch and Heavy Clutch springs, Fuel -X Lite and Hitchcock's Cam Shaft. I am currently bedding in all the new components which will be followed by a Service which will be due by then. I am not expecting to gain great advantages, I just wanted to improve the bike overall. I still enjoy riding the 411 Himalayan. I hope you have a great remainder of your trip on the WAW in Ireland. It's a great place to ride a Motorcycle. Continually following you on here so interested in your reviews and posts. Best wishes.
I think that it's worth bearing in mind that RE sell as many bikes in three days than they sell in the UK. In the US the equation is 1 month's home sales to a year.
Great honest review Nathan, Well I’m coming up 64 and 5”8 I’ve downsized from a GS1250 to the Aprilia Tuareg 660 which I love and will be keeping….. I did used to own a 411 a few years ago….sold it and did miss the adrenaline rush of the bigger bikes…. I test rode the 450 and wasn’t blown away with it tbh……..the best thing about the 450 is that it’s bought the 2nd hand prices of the 411 plummeting and I’ve just picked up a bargain of a 411 with all the extras on that I would of put on anyway and 1300 miles on the clock……🤷♂️ Nice to be back on an old plodder again 😂👍
A good honest review and i agree with nearly everything you said. I rode the new 450 last weekend and was really excited to try it but after a 45 minute ride i must admit i walked away a bit underwhelmed. I was all set to order one before i got there but I am glad i tried it first as its not for me. I have had 2 411's in the past and i must admit with the deals available at the moment i am very tempted to get another. The dealer I borrowed it from is also a CF Moto dealer and i asked him how well the new Himalyans were selling and he said there was an initial rush but sales have now slowed down and he said quite a few people are waiting to try the CF Moto 450 before they make a decision.
As ever proper thoughts I only did 12miles and found as a 411 owner not bike for me on all points raised.... that doesn't make it a bad bike just different and not what I want... cheers ...
Really interesting review Nathan. Hands up, not ridden the 450 but have owned my 411 for 4 years. It’s such an endearing little bike. It has its faults but it puts a smile on my face every time I ride it. It’s first test was to take me and all my kit to your Odyssey at Sweetlamb. I couldn’t quite believe how good it was at that task. It chugged along all day getting there, encouraged me to take the smaller roads. B roads all the way to Devon last year too. An off-road novice it gave me the confidences to tackle the whole weekend. Part of that is its size , easy going nature and its low price point. The new model appears to miss the mark a bit, I’d almost say it’d have been better to call it something else as it doesn’t seem to have the Himalayan DNA? ( Something I said the very first time I saw one which didn’t go down well😉) On the sidestand issue. Yes it can be modified but this is the very first impression of the bike that a prospective buyer gets.possibly intimidated by it before riding a yard. Add luggage and for some it’s just too much. I will ride the 450 at some point , maybe I’ll change my mind, I doubt it though.
Great review, I sat on the 450 and did find it heavy of the side stand , it's a very big bike. The appeal of the 411 was the easy maintenance, the 450 has shimmed valves. I wanted a long distance relaxing ride which the 411 seems a lot more suitable for. The 450 too me is a completely different bike from the 411 which is not what I wanted.
I'm 5'4" and nearly couldn't get mine off the side stand. Easier to grab the tank guard. Fun to ride for my needs though (quick blast round the country roads)
That's a great presentation...the two bikes are so close ...and both appeal to a very niche group....I like my 411 as iam old 64 and nackered...so haho..
This most excellent review showed 1k likes before I liked it, then it changed to 1.1k. It must have had 1099 likes, then mine made it 1.1k. How cool is that? It's like watching the miles on your bike change from 9999 to 100000.
Great musings and good to get a different take on things. Ive ordered the 450, it fell like it still had a charm about it, more poke than a 450cc has any right to have, and handled fantastically. RE are breath of fresh air and hopefully a brand on the up.
Had a 4 hour test ride on the 450 yesterday and I’ve got to agree with a lot of your points Nathan. Although I did enjoy the bike for a short ride …it felt very agricultural overall. Maybe a mixture of the vibrations and the noise when giving it some (not horrible but noticeable), but it never really felt ‘settled’ anywhere. The bike I rode only had 500 miles on it so it may still have some running in to do but It didn’t seem to overly like the higher speeds, even in 6th gear…and I don’t think I’d want to stay at them for any length of time at all. I found benefit in almost “short shifting” the gears to try calm the feeling of the bike down as you don’t seem to gain alot from revving it higher, other than more vibrations. My arse for some reason wasn’t a fan of the seat (everyone’s different) seemed to tilt me forward slightly as if to want me slid against the tank. Suspension was lovely, standing position felt good, handling once moving was also really direct and nimble and I felt comfortable pretty quickly with the bike. Build quality looked good. Price is good. I think as you say it’s been directed to a more aggressive riding style, which is great for shorter blasts or trips around and was really enjoyable, but I think living longer term with it or on a longer trip I’d find myself getting tired and wanting a mellow side to the bike that I can munch miles on. Funny how technically it’s a better bike in every way, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the better bike for you aye. Just my findings of course, and I’m sure others will see and find it differently. For a bit of perspective I’m 36, enjoy speed, not scared or deterred by noise or vibrations from a bike in general. But as a travel bike…. I just don’t think it has that settled, smooth, calm side for distance.
Very, very concise and well presented review of the Himmy 450…thanks for sharing. To sum the bike up, it rather sounds like 2 steps forward, 1 step back, over the 411?
I found, when I test ride/reviewed the bike, it lacks character. I own a 411 Himalayan, and totally agree with you, this isn't what we were hoping for! 🥺
Great video mate ....every time I watch your videos I always have a mental tussle .....adventure bike or roadbike !. I do like the more sedate pace of adventure biking ....tough decision.
That’s a great real world review. For the points you made about the 411, are all the point I love about the bike. It’s a bike that just as you say wants to be your friend and companion on the journey. For me personally it’s bike that is a pleasure and joy to ride. 452 I guess is really a road orientated bike, almost a roadster in trail clothing maybe? As you say a 411 with the 650 interceptor engine would be a very interesting combination, sort of “Super Himalayan” or “Himalayan Continental”. It’s a shame the 411 I assume won’t continue to be available 😔
I was interested in the 450 but I decided to go old skool and got a TTR600 (now 620) instead. 46 BHP, can keep up with most twins with decent riders off road, 175kgs with 20 liters of fuel, sweet handling, great Brembos and loads of torque.
The long stroke engine was the magic sauce of the 411 Himmy. This one has sold it soul and ended up in the middle of a bunch of average beginner bikes.
Wow what a brilliant review, everything you say makes so much sense. Maybe this engine will be more at home in a road going 450 Hunter, sounds as if RE will need to find another platform for it to make better use of it. I have sat on the 450 Himalayan and it does feel very top heavy and like you say lifting it off the side stand you definitely feel all it's weight. I think RE have really missed the target with this bike, as you said most people just wanted a little bit more power. Keep the air cooled engine but just get the power up to around 30 plus bhp. I guess most people will look at the old 411 and just fit better air flow and exhaust system and maybe a performance cam from TEC and make a better bike from the old one than RE have made of the new one.
13:21 "We just wanted a 411 with a bit more power". If you put your ear to the ground and read through the Indian auto websites (Zigwheels Upcoming Royal Enfield Bikes), there will be an upcoming Scram 440 at some point within the year, same air/oil cooled engine as the 411 but with a larger bore, and will replace the scram 411. By no means is the Scram equivalent to the Himalayan, but it is very similar and for most people who do mostly road riding it's probably the better choice. It should have an extra 4hp, taking it to 28bhp. With some other mods you could probably get it over 30bhp. It's also worth noting the 477cc big bore kit for the 411 engine, which with other mods adds 10hp, (30 rear wheel hp giving an extra 50% compared to 20 rear wheel hp on the 411). There is even a 500cc big bore kit but this requires increasing the bore in the engine casing by 2mm, taking it up to 38bhp. According to the Zigwheels page, there is a Himalayan 650 in the works, supposedly ready for June next year.
Sat on the 450 yesterday at the local shop and my god yes it's heavy off the stand 😮.......sat on the 450MT straight after and felt feather weight in comparison.......
Worth waiting for the oracles verdict. 100% agree and being 5’6” the upper weight and the side stand lean are issues for me. It would be interesting to understand how many are sold to 411 owners against how many are sold to those than know no better ( that’s a joke BTW) but I suspect there are quite a few 411 owners having had a go on the 452 are happy to keep the 411 … me being one of them
Was in a dealership Saturday talking to two 411 owners that had just taken the 452 out for test rides and both were putting deposits down for the new tubeless version. Mid 30’s age group
As a 390 Adv owner, i was really sold on the new 450. The marketing team had done their job, i was sold. The 21" front wheel, tubeless spoked wheels, centre stand, factory pannier options But i considerd the weight, and the rear light/indicator arrangement, and your videos, and meh - ill stick with 390, especially as ive got it how i want it now.
Brilliant views from a geezer who rides thousands of miles on bikes often brought with is own money. Not a muppet hoping to be invited to next manufacturers jolly. If you are so shallow that you only want to hear positives about your bike there are lots of people and magazines that can tell you what you want to hear. Maybe the bike is also a victim of euro regs which make bikes difficult to ride and even dangerous. Proud of you nathan and your honest reviews looking forward to views on cf moto 450mt. If you don't want to live in the world don't listen to nathan the postman!
i had the 411,. i hacked the side stand down a bit shorter and welded on a a bigger foot so it it didnt sink in soft stuff so easily but it was needing a bit more hwy speed
And there you have it.... "Simple, Honest, To the point, To the rider".... How come for so many this ease of speak is so difficult. You make it look so pure Nathan. Which it is and should be. But it seems your special talent. Have you ever written a book? If so I would like to buy it. If not, consider it. I would buy it .
@@mikehurley5052 thanks Mike,,, just found it on Amazon,,, looks like a couple of'em.... I will be ordering them. Finding myself very much in line with his philosophy of motorcycling.
PLEASE test ride. I bought a Scram 411, LOVE LOVE LOVE it. Very placid, mellow, comfortable, easy, enjoyable, strong, docile, etc. I LOVE it. It is Not a fast bike, it was Not designed to be. PLEASE test ride BOTH. Regards.
I have done more than 30,000 miles on my 411 from new toured 16 countries. I also have a tenere 700 to scratch the itch. Iv tested the 450 himi..like you I wanted to love it but I dont..its hard to put a finger on it but it feels like just another bike. I will keep my old friend the 411 till it dies.
I think you're wrong about the bike. It can ride slowly using clutch at walking pace, or 6hpm from idle. Weight off the side stand is a function of a full tank, it feels a lot lighter half full. This in many ways similar to my XT 660, tank on top. You can get it off the side stand by using your hips from a standing position, same as if you were pushing the bike around. Then get on. Its suspension is far better than the old one, brakes and handling too. It could be geared and fuelled better for low down pull, see Triumph 400 X. That has an excellent drive from low and smooth pick up, it will pull at walking pace from idle or even up a slight incline. It looks like a step up in build quality over the old, more similar to a Suzuki V-Strom or NX500 in quality.
I think I'm right about the bike for the example you give. If the new Himalayan feels similar to your XT 660 then it's too heavy for the typical Himalayan rider who wouldn't have bought a 660 for it being too heavy. They bought the 411 instead. Totally agree about the low speed refinement. Once moving it's perfect.
I have to say feel the same I love my 411 far from perfect but its a great bike. When I rode the 450 it felt that I had to push the bike more and that is not really my riding these days. I would have thought a 650 would have been ideal. If I want to do Motorways miles then I can jump on my old pan I recently brought.
Yes, I never thought I'd say it but a 650 Super Himalayan would have ticked the right boxes. Strong smooth power. More relaxed. Ok on gravel track and good on the motorway. It was the bike a lot of people were asking for.
Going by other reports, the higher touring screen should help with motorway touring speeds. I’ll be interested to test drive and keep your review in mind. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it helps in buying decisions or at least whether to consider taking a test ride. So far this is the only negative review I’ve seen, perhaps the other reviewers were seduced by media ride review days in the Himalayas or Sardinia
I couldn't possibly say re the last comment but it is surprising that the weight issue didn't get mentioned in any of the launch event videos. But there is a lot going on on those events and they do like to feed you all the good stuff to say. But yes, a touring screen will be on my shopping list. Keen to try.
I'd thought of that but I think you'd make it even more fidgety between gears on the slower stuff. Around 20-28mph in town or on rural roads you just can't find the right gear on it. I think raising the gearing may make it worse, but it might improve it. So I might give it a go and see.
Having just watched a couple of reviews on CFmotos 450MT, I’ll be interested to hear what your thoughts will be from you on said bike when you get your hands on one.
Thoughtful, incisive and not swayed by the need to praise every bike you ride (and own) unlike most of the UK bike journos. I've had a 411 for four years now and tried the 452 a couple of weeks ago and pretty much agree with everything Nathan says, with the caveat that I only spent 2 hours on it. Im fortunate in that although my 60th will come knocking this year, im 6ft and still plenty strong enough to manhandle most bikes about (ive got eight including a Desert X and a Griso) but its the himmy i choose when exploring, green laning or just bimbling and ill be keeping my (or another if mine wears out 😂) himmy 411 probably for as long as i can ride as its a superb travel, do it all, nice and easy, characterful thing. I may or may not gor for a 452 once the early adopters have finished with them but am pretty sure there will be a 411 in my garage for the rest of my riding days.
I returned to riding after a 15-year break, so the 411 spoke to me as a mixture of my old bikes - a compromise between XT250, XT550 Yamahas, BMW 650 GS Funduro, and blue from my Virago 535 - and I wanted lower power and speed to dampen any poor riding decisions. What I didn't like about the F650GS was the cost of premium fuel, and maintenance and that it was top-heavy and allergic to wind. With the 411, I got the comfy seat and position of the GS and the fuel economy of the XT250, although I miss having a smooth motor. I expect the top-heavy Himalayan 450 will be an issue for many, and I wonder how it will go in strong winds - weight distribution is a big deal. If I was returning after 15 years to a 450 Himalayan, I doubt I'd have much fun without the strength, skills and confidence that 10,000km on the 411 has given me.
Interesting. I want to try one but not convinced. the weight likely will be an issue some bikes I struggle with getting off the stand since I did my leg.
Seen the new 450 at the NEC and ordered one from my local dealer ......test rode one two weeks ago and was so disappointed i cancelled the order ! Says it all really 😢 going to keep the Scram 🎉
@nathanthepostman Vibration was the main reason plus pushing it fairly hard to get it to moving. It's not a true Himalayan to me ......just my view 😢 I think your suming up says it all
Is it vibrating more because it hasn’t been set in yet? Maybe after the first service and 500k’s it will be better. The stand is ridiculous, little trick to newbie’s, turn the wheel in the opposite direction and it makes it easier to bring it up. Higher top speed, better suspension, water cooled, 10,000km service intervals and 3 year warranty are definite upgrades. But I see your points for how you like to ride it Nathan.
Nice review, oddly having the same conversation today, bike design for the sales people and what they think people can be sold, they are loosing their sole and they are wrong, I don't ride because it is economic, safe, quiet, easy, I ride because I love bikes, I want character, I want good simple engineering, I want repairable at home, I want to tinker, I want something that makes sense
As a 5’8” 70 year old I totally get where you are coming from, I was at a main dealer having alloy wheels fitted to my Classic 350 that I have had for over 2 years now, absolutely love the relaxed nature of the bike. They had the 450 Himmy sat outside and the mechanic said exactly what you have just said , they have made the bike for a different type of rider, then said try taking it off the side stand, nightmare if I wanted one that would have been a deal breaker. Have to say rode the 411 when my Classic was having its first 300 mile service and just found it too agricultural after the Classic, but found the 411 dead easy to ride and take off the side stand 😊
To be honest the 350 classic is the benchmark royal Enfield imo. Such a great blend of classic relaxed riding and modern refinement. A few were on them on this Irish trip and they were ideal bikes for the job
Absolutely legendary video Nathan :) great to see such honesty about it really is brilliant massive help for all of us trying to sus out what it is an isn’t. Dad will enjoy this one when he’s home from hospital always both really appreciate your views on the bikes. I wish they had focused on getting it as light as the 390 etc makes such a big difference It’s a shame so many companies are not listening to the consumer, an there’s this massive disconnect I agree I think they are chasing down the let’s turn adv bikes into the next superbikes an that kind of defeats the object. Personally I wish they had really focused on improving the faults and flaws on the 411 an stuck with the longstroke platform having had a 411 an riding a 97 year old flat tank Norton which is a long stoke it’s one truly underrated an amazing platform. Shame to see it go. I had my concerns about vibes when they mentioned the power a the engine configuration it might have been more suited to a 400 twin especially if it’s that heavy of the side stand. I’ve been exploring what to get dad if the T7 becomes to heavy for him or to much seat height wise after the radiotherapy mum came back from the hospital after the surgery before with instructions whatever you do don’t sell the t7 yet haha so the motivation is working a treat for him which is why I got it for him. I reckon when he’s ready for a change though it might end up being a scrambler 400x or a t100. As we are just gonna be road riding now with his meds and stuff a the change to his bones. (Stage 3b/4 prostate cancer) I think it hammers home really don’t be affraid to change bikes or chase experiences if you are able cause you never know how longs left gotta treasure every single day :)
You make a really valid point about getting a bike based on its intended purpose. I was in a RE dealership today and he said he wished they’d called it something completely different as it is a completely different bike to the original. More road focused than off road were his words. Please do me a favour, when your Dad is looking for the next bike, try the Triumph by all means, but also try and find a good used Kawasaki W800, I think he will love it.
Thank you very much for your insights! What is your experience with the Rhinowalk saddlebags on your Himy? @nathanthepostman Any Wobbeling or fear it might chafe on the tire?
Hi Nathan just a thought have you ever ridden a 411 Himmy with a one tooth smaller front sprocket I have one and I feel it has made it more fun but still kept that slogging feel I absolutely love my Himmy Keep up the good work m8 THANKS
