2024 SMASH BROS MELEE TIER LIST 

Ikr

It was as deep and complex as Marth's neutral

@@axr1798Casual, marth neutral is harder than most top tiers

marth biggy swingy sword, big grabba the hands. FORWARD SMASH

true, bro spent 9 minutes explaining it

Yeah it sucks

@@Darby-wn7fxhes atleast mid in melee

He's just tiering there, menacingly.

Being the line is better than bottom of the barrel

Bro forgot mac and dedede

😂😂😂😂 it's because the little things count more when everyone is on the same level

The structure of how a new character choice goes from crap to seasoned to optimizing has been revolutionized by Slippi. The levels of improvement that used to take strong player months can now be knocked out by a hardworking and natively adept gaming student in a few dedicated weeks.

Honestly main reason I like melee and hate league of legends pro. Melee shows people actually adapt to what you see, in league of legends most pros just play the same 5 champs over and over. I started watching both games a lot more in pro in 2014 and it’s cool how insane melee has developed, while in league of legends there is a lot of things like drafting and denial of resources not even used yet.

oooo ooo aa aaa ahh renaissance! i'm all for it tho

I'd like to blame aMSa for inspiring so many people to try and make waves with characters that were previously considered trash even though there's a 90% chance that he barely had to do with it

​@@InsertFunnyThingHerewdym he barely had anything to do with it

@@iAmFlashGordon45 I mean realistically low tiers being developed by specialists stubbornly continuing to play them even if everyone said they were trash was gonna happen with or without aMSa proving that it could genuinely have results

really makes you think, for 20 years Yoshi and DK were considered bottom of the barrel by the best players in the world, if you were to say DK and Yoshi could win a major 2019 people would say you dont know anything about top level play and there is no way these characters can get consistent results. Slippi only been around for a couple years and the DK phenomenon has happened, my theory is all it takes is a really talented player who is fully comitted to weaker characters to bring out innovations. Samus, G and W, Bowser and Link all have alot of potential in the coming years imo

Way more than DK changed from Hbox's last tier list. * Bowser Above Kirby is new * G&W above Mewtwo is new * Young Link above Mewtwo is new * Roy above Link and Mario is new * Doc above Luigi is new * DK above Doc and Luigi is new * Yoshi moved back down below Captain Falcon and Peach (Plus some tiers got larger or smaller but I don't really care about that). And...honestly I agree with most of these changes. I think maybe moving G&W above Mewtwo is a bit premature (Leffen's Mewtwo has still done more than any one G&W so far, including Cody's G&W), but I can see the logic behind most of these moves based on the past year and a half.

​@@KaitlynBurnellMath Im ngl I can see Mewtwo being moved above mario because Mewtwo was technically #1 in Europe with Mewtwo

@@honathan2135 Honestly, Mario is an enigma cause there just isn't a serious Mario player right now (even Mango has moved on to Doc). So yeah, I could see Mario moving down if things continue like this for a long time, or up if someone picks up the character and starts doing well.

​@@honathan2135 that was when EU was playing PAL, no? PAL has different stats

@@victorianomas89 no, Europe switched to ntsc a good while back

Roy mains always stated he was unexplored but they also didn't want to admit they where just bad.

@@Oh-Ben Naaah, Roy was well represented in many periods (NEO, Sethlon, Lunchables), but they didn't have the skill gap of Zain's to make insanely good results. And LAG probably shows the fundamentals of Roy in the new meta game.

@@KRILLINTM-lx2cl Well represented but I wouldn't call it great. Sethlon wouldn't commit to improving because his habit of busting out Fsmash in neutral. Most Roy mains where only notable because they played Roy, not because they where good.

In 2 different games too (and probably in brawl too)

@@DragonMaster1818I think he is the absolute worst in Brawl

⁠@@TheBeggies95It’s tough to decide between Zelda and Ganondorf iirc, but he’s still comically bad.

​@DragonMaster1818 For a time he had his own tier in brawl bc he was so bad, that being the G tier

Melee might actually be the most balanced game in the franchise

@@toadboy4 i still think 64 is more balanced

@@notlucas6859 I’m not sure on that, but I don’t know much about 64 other than that half of the characters can 0-death you, Pika is broken, and can recover from anywhere, and that Link is terrible and his recovery is a joke, but I guess most of the cast is pretty similar in balance, as well as a lot of the cast of Melee and Ultimate, they just have a few broken and a few terrible characters in each game

Ya it seems mango is the only falco capable of winning a major. The fact that he does it proves its possible, but if he wasnt playing would we even know that?

Magi exist and to me its a top 10 contender

it raises an interesting question of how good a character really is if you need to outplay at such an anomalous level, same as pika and yoshi with axe and amsa

Sheik is 3rd imo

@@SueLulamoon Magi isn't close to nor has he ever been a top 10 contender. Seek help.

that sounds fun id love to run it

It also took 20 years for people to explore the cast.

⁠@@Oh-Benover a decade ago you could still find players killing it with these mid/low tiers…they just weren’t well known. Melee has always been a game where it’s only like 20-30% character and 70-80% skill. 15+ yrs ago I was one of top players in my region and I still took tournament losses to links, gdorf, dk, etc… DK was one character I always thought was super underrated…nasty up-B, b-air and grab game.

@@zfeazcesd1047 You really didn't. Finding them was hard as they didn't travel. Saying they existed sure. The main problem is the completive side of Melee didn't form until 2010. Anything before 08-10 really doesn't matter and low tiers couldn't win because that was the games prime era with almost every region having killers and nobody even being close to the games best players. Theres a few reason you're now seeing lower tiers and the main one is slippi. Even with that most of the 2010's low tier notable players where not actually good. They where notable because they where good enough. But nobody explored them proper because if you didn't play Fox you weren't cool. Until you got knowledge checked by a Roy.

@@Oh-Ben the competitive side of melee was alive well before 2010. I was playing around 2006ish and there were lots of strong regions with top players scattered around the US. i was lucky in that a top 5ish player in the world lived near me that i could play regularly, but people did travel a couple hours or more for tournaments because there was no other option...and you encountered plenty of good low/mid tier players. of course nobody was as good as they are now, but it didn't take 20 years for people to "explore the cast". why disregard people exploring the cast just because they weren't as good as they are now...which is what happens with every competitive game...the more recent eras are better than the older ones.

@@zfeazcesd1047 It was in fact, not alive or doing well before 2010.

Agreed; Roy being above Mario and Link is a JOKE. Wtf Hbox? Aklo literally clowns DTM's Roy in every set they play. Roy does marginally better against the spacies than Link, but Link does considerably better against the floaties.

I thought I was the only one…

Real and true

ayo

If you look at the tier list upside down, yes

nah kirby is just op man

W link

At least you’re getting a lot of matchup practice, but I understand your struggles. Maybe try reaching out to mid or low tier mains in your region to see if they’ll play with you!

I get what you mean, I main Ness and it upsetting to see a top tier quit out just because it's Ness. But when I do play with high+ tiers they sometimes get messed up because they're fighting an unfamiliar character Ness down air is so good like bro wha-

as a pila player i get learn to consistently combo the fast fallers and SHIEK must be understood fully LOVE MELEE LOVE MIDTIERS WE WILL TAKE OVEEEER

It's always going to be that way Lol! People play characters they enjoy, and most people enjoy winning and having a high ceiling for growth. 😄😊

I do love seeing people advance lower tiered characters however. Especially as a Yoshi main. Believe!! 😄😁🦖💚

It's kinda been done to death, everyone knows why marth is good

M2K’s mind is ahead of the meta

Same. Project M Ganondorf is my favorite character out of the entire Super Smash Bros series.

I highly doubt that Mario will ever be a Top or even a High Tier character in Melee ever again like he was in the beginning since he certainly doesn't excel in the ability department. He's just basically an average Joe type of fighter. Plus, his Down aerial aka Drill kick move can't even KO opponents at all (not even at 999%).

@@SiMgUrL1721 Neither do fox's lasers.

@@massi4h However, Mario's down aerial move is not a projectile. I don't understand why Mario's down aerial isn't a kill move, but Luigi's down aerial is a strong kill move in Melee.

@@SiMgUrL1721it’s a combo tool, foxes drill doesn’t kill either

@@SiMgUrL1721 it’s not used for killing it’s used as a combo move, his fair should kill like docs. if only that move was a spike and not a meteor i’m sure he would be considered viable. the only thing holding him back are kill confirms and ko power. also he isn’t an average joe, he’s extremely fun to play and watch when in the right hands. scorpion master & sozin are the biggest examples.

Unexpected to see you fuck with melee

As a gnw main I agree. If his shield wasn't practically useless I wonder how much higher he could be.

​@@youbewonderinI feel like Game and Watch would at least be high tier if this game had just like one more month in the oven. He's so close to being good, he just got screwed over by some pretty big oversights

I feel like game and watch goes in ganon or the very bottom of mid tier, offensively he's amazing, defensively he's poor but manageable with medium shields and poweshields

Because one is a competitive game, other is a party game.

It's simply amazing how this just isn't true at all

what?

Mario is a Mid Tier, not a Low Tier character in Melee.

No, Puff beats Marth. HBox just is coping. Puff's only bad matchup is vs Fox.

Mario only has trouble KOing opponents sometimes is because that his overall stats are completely average in Melee. Since his strongest finishers seems to only be his smash attacks (especially his Forward Smash) and his Back Throw move.

The big difference is their Fairs. Both can combo into it, but Doc's actually kills at reasonable percents. Mario will frequently get stuck having his opponents at 150% because he doesn't have a reliable kill option.

@@matthewmazzatto8003 calling doc's fair reliable is a bit of a stretch. Mario has a stronger immediate nair to setup edgeguards in a scramble, and significantly better fsmash for certain match ups (Yoshi being the most noteworthy example). doc's bair is better too and so are pills, but Mario has a bit less end lag on his aerials which can add up a lot over a game. Doc's definitely better, I just don't see how 2 characters could be between them.

Wrote that on my phone, but I have the list of changes in front of me now. THINGS MARIO HAS OVER DOC: • bair and uair do more damage, have less landing lag • dair has a bigger hitbox, a landing hitbox, less landing lag • fair has less landing lag • jab2/jab3 are faster • up-angled-ftilt does more damage • dsmash has extra disjoint & range • extra hitbox on fsmash • side-b rises more, has more horizontal range • down-b hits more frequently • up-b hits more frequently, is a bit more disjointed at the start • up-b's hitbox lasts 3f longer, which is enough time to sweetspot ledge the frame after you have a hitbox out (doc can't do this) • wall-jump out of up-b • better disjoint on grab • better reverse hitbox on grab and dash-grab • less kb on dthrow/uthrow (better for chaingrabs/combos) • slightly thinner Doc IS better, pills are better, fair is better, bair is better. And he has plenty of other small advantages just like that mario list. Mario's designed to do more damage with rushdown uair combos, while Doc is a zoner that gets more damage and knockback from each individual hit. mario's uair > fsmash and tech-chase > fsmash are reasonable KO methods though. his bair is worse, but it can still edgeguard. doc's nair is a gimmick, really, it's better to have a 3f move with high kb than a slow, low-range KO move (and doc's fair often makes it redundant). they both lose equally hard to top platform camping.

In a nutshell, Dr. Mario actually excels in the ability department (with having even stronger moves and possessing more reliable finishers) whereas Mario doesn't particularly excel in any stat. That's why Doc is considered to be a better character than his own clone is. So, Doc doesn't have trouble KOing opponents, but Mario does sometimes.

@@SiMgUrL1721 this seems like a situation where you should be listening, not teaching