How Many Characters Are Viable in Melee? 

Got this comment out before I could comment “yoshi hasn’t won a super major, yeah that didn’t age well”

i was there

aMSa fans rise up!

Lessgooo

Was thinking about this video while watching Big House 10

No any yoshi is viable

​@jimrdm71 it's a joke because amsa is the only yoshi that's done anything of significance......

Green fox and red marth are the best characters in the game.

Agreed

#Amsa the red yoshi god

lmao true

@@soni-switch5270 lmao we are watching this like 5 months ago and i literally was just gonna say lmao true

Then... nobody is

Isnt that literally what the tier list is based on? How good characters are against MK?

Played brawl once, never again. Fucking Meta Knight

Proven by evidence

and specifically a fox secondary lol

How strong is HungryBox with Jigglypuff currently in Melee and Ultimate? Is he still ranked number one player?

@@danielsurvivor1372 ultimate he is struggling but he is starting to have better placements at tournaments In melee he is still in the top 10 best

@@danielsurvivor1372 He's struggling a bit since his attention is divided between the two games, but he's still definitely a threat

oof

@Sam Dingdangdongalong He's so OP, he doesn't even have to be in the game to win against Kirby.

Triple R somehow managed to get Kirby to top 8 at Combo Breaker 2016.

@@PresidentMagikarp dude could make magikarp viable I swear

Hmm floor is made out off floor

Too bad they got nerfed

gtfo

I mean I wish I could say that but sadly I cant honestly say that.

That’s why everyone says so few are viable, they have no friends

Heartwarming.

bowser absolutely broken man smh nintendo should've nerfed him he's too broken and powerful in such a fast game he has no weaknesses im gonna sue sakurai this is harassment against gaming in general

He big I get hit plz nerf

I mean IKR people complain about Marth grab range have you seen Bowser dash-grab?

Falco target practice lol

What about Kirby though? His down B is super OP against casuals who don’t know what they’re doing.

Green

Pink Captain Falcon is the most viable

Actually he right. Cuz for whatever reason Green Falcon has a smaller hitbox than regular falcon

It’s not a smaller hitbox but a very slightly bigger stage hitbox which means that the green falcon has a pixel more in regards to grabbing ledge and similar things. Though it is so little that i don’t think it is even noticeable

NIPPLE SPIKE

Right. Talk about the round, pink elephant in the room. A bunch of people declare Puff to be a "cheap, no skill character" despite only one person able to actually put up results with her.

@@ForeverLaxx 2, but only one consistently top 8s Prince Abu I think it is is a ranked top 50 puff who has some notable wins, even beating plup one time.

@@ForeverLaxx Prince Abu is in the top 50 I believe, a great puff player. And don’t forget Mang0 was a puff main before he switched to fox.

@@lumen9590 that set where Prince Abu beat Plup was so surreal

@@ForeverLaxx At a time, the top 2 players were both puff. However I don't think it's ever gonna happen again.

MapleMilk So, only 2.

@Edwin Jiménez Aceves because some people don't play melee and only hear about the meta from memes and such and there for belive that their only exists 3 viable characters.

but first we must talk about wave dashing

Yeah, what idiots, we all know there is only one viable character... Sonic

@Edwin Jiménez Aceves well then i don't know, i don't play melee and just hear it from memes and watch these kind of videos from time to time.

He stopped making compilations because of copyright strikes but this account has experienced an amazing revival. It's literally lightning striking twice recreating yourself and finding success with a new formula

idk this is the first video he put out in awhile i actually liked, the other ones recently seemed really low effort

It wasn’t because of copyright. It’s because RU-vid demonetized his channel due to RU-vid thinking his videos are “repetitive content.” They’ve done this due to the rise of low quality Reddit vids read by text to speech.

His content is now more broadly appealing and generally suited to the algorithm. Hes doing what he must to grow his channel and still focus it on Melee.

nobody else noticed that his account spells boobs

Dr. Mario and DK were known to be borderline viable characters from the early 2000s. The problem is that both characters have various shortcomings. The weirdest thing is that Yoshi is viable. Yoshi is just really hard to play well.

Renaissance

lol

I mean *HE’S NOT WRONG*

I mean, hes not wrong

And jiggypuff because that’s the best giga bowser matchup

Giga bowser is bad against jigglypuff

"-can beat any fox"

“COME ON WHY WON’T YOU *DIE* “

ROYS OUR BOIIIII

have you guys seen the video with Roy's instakill cheese on jigglypuff?

@@frogturtle - It should have some name like "unrest" or something.

Imagine the hype when that happens

We need the mid tier major win!

@@niconexus5914 bowser super major win

@@huntersowards3409 POG

Nico Nexus pikachu is probably mid tier

Hbox and Plup have been longtime friends, Hbox doubled with him even before Plup got super big.

I don't know their names, so I couldn't figure out at first who of them won bc they were both happy 😁

Master Hand loses the Gigabowser MU dont @ me

Goddamit, didn't see this

Although he can't die his attacks are super easy to dodge so you can get a percent lead and time him out

Do tournaments even ban him in the rules? If not im bout to win next Evo

2👌XX

actually its the case in most 1v1 competitive sports and esports

That's what a polarizing match up does.

That's why it's the best smash game.

@@crookycumbles There aren't many polarizing MUs in Melee though. Outside of Puff and Icies MUs, there really isn't a polarizing MU.

That is why they call them gods

now… jmook almost did 😌

Thank one guy. Hungrybox

The ironic part to all this is the fact that shiek was once considered the best melee character

All it takes is a sheik main 'dodging' hbox, and i hope it happens

I also forgot Armada

iirc thats the same thing people said when hbox got results with puff

This happens with almost every competitive video game regardless of genre

Metas are made to be broken.

T.R.4.Q.

you should see Pokémon players when someone comes up with a weird ass gimmicky moveset that won't work unless it specifically counters a meta Pokémon that you'll run against all the time anyways. They're straight up in denial that someone beat their Ubers with a PU Pokémon running Simple Power Herb Copycat to beat Xerneas with its own Geomancy

Went to the comments just to find a comment that confirmed my theory

I KNEW IT! I KNEW I WASN'T THE ONLY CRAZY ONE

HOLLYSHIT SOOO FCKING TRUE

And no downward spirals

@@Hyperion856 yet

hello Joystick gamer

Didn't expect to see you here!

Hello D-Pad Gamer how are you doing

It got old

It's such a stupid video.

69 likes LOL

@@balticblues8130 nice

Yeah, would be amazing to see someone like that

Not any more LETS GO WIZYYYYYYYYYYYY

@@danielbojkovski723 Wizzy didn't face Mang0 at sns

@@diamondman3434 he's talking about scl season 2 week 3

Elu Tran finally a normal comment first reply btw

Aren’t you the guy who uploaded the undertaker soundtrack

@@theredspirit2090 not funny

elu tran undertale

Aren’t you the guy who uploaded the bug fables videos

True though I still hate playing as yoshi. I started playing peach and have an uncanny ability to use her movement to get out of bad situations. My ATTACK switch her is still lacking. Learning though. Used to be a Link player. He's too slow and leaves himself open way too much.

And SHEIK won super major in 2023, so we have two confirmed viable characters

@@danielsurvivor1372 Sheik was always known to be viable; the exclusion of sheik is literally because the best sheik player used Fox as an anti-Hungrybox tool.

wow

Update: People are beginning to beat tetris. Crazy how it evolved in just a few years.

a wobbling ban is going to push ice climbers so far you have no idea

@@lounowell4171 so far down the tier list

@@nickq8093 best wavedash in entire game (speed + distance), disjointed hammers, guaranteed grab combos on entire cast even as a single climber, more range than marth's dtilt with blizzard... they can't really drop lower than the mario bros my guy, and those guys never had wobbling

@@lounowell4171 can't use dashdance properly as sync'd climbers due to nana, have poor range and active frames despite their hammers (fsmash and dash attack both have 2 active frames for example). Their guaranteed combos with sopo on much of the cast past very low %s is a single upair. Blizzard is slow and punishable. They have worse neutrals than the plumbers, no non-grab combo game to speak of and their grab combo game is now heavily dependant on rng on much of the cast. Combine this with the fact the opponent can reduce them to a low tier off a single neutral win and the fact they now have near unwinnable matchups in peach and campy puff and the case for them being below the plumbers is a pretty strong one. And before you say "but desyncs", desyncs aren't some magical black box of options. They are high risk high reward trapping/checkmate tools. If you nerf the reward (icies grab punish game) then the risk isn't as worth it.

​@@nickq8093 you make some good arguments and while I still disagree about ice climbers overall potential, I largely agree with your summary of some of their glaring but often overlooked weaknesses they can still dash-dance at most ranges/timings low no. of active frames is presumably to balance their coverage when you still have both climbers - seems fair. from vids i've watched and games i've played, ICs spend as much time with both climbers as they do sopo, can't discount that while their guaranteed combos on many characters is just a single uair (and the great positioning that sets up), they can theoretically get 0 to death chain-grabs with a single climber on sheik/pikachu/etc... not sure what "worse neutrals than the plumbers" means tbh, except for like neutral air all of their A attacks are better or effectively the same you don't have to depend on RNG if you get the grab near the edge, plus they have reasonably reliable 50-50s off a grab centre stage (that end in you getting guaranteed hit with a smash attack, potentially with forced bad DI, or a re-grab) most characters can't reduce them to a low tier off a single neutral read. it's more like... fox, falcon and peach can in certain consistent locations: still terrible, don't get me wrong, and I'd argue it's a big obstacle to luigi's viability too, but there's no need to exaggerate desyncs aren't a magical black box, but considering no ICs player uses landing desyncs, or pivot desyncs. considering no ICs player seems to have worked out consistent, reliable traps/setups (like armada has with peach, or hbox has with puff)... it's pretty fair to say there's work to be done

yoo you play melee? netplay me right now

It will never happen until he actually decides to drop Marth and focus on DK instead.

DK has won 2 majors, but those were in 07

His down-B is basically 4 Falco shines

@@trials_of_death3680 huh?? Which "majors"?

Agree, Samus has very good matchups overall, in my local Smash scene there is a dude (who is a close friend) that mains Fox and Samus and always picks Samus as a counterpick for Fox, Falcon and ICS, he always gets good results, Samus just has a too underdeveloped meta

I love samus to death, and I might just be a complainer but I really don't see it happening. There's a reason why the "Samus to Sheik pipeline" meme exists - Sheik wants to play the exact same game as Samus... and she does. But just better in every way, except instead of having one big charge shot you have a bunch of smaller ones. That cancel the big one. (Seriously, why the fuck does one needle beat charge shot?)

Swooper beat IBDW at a recent online tournament and got to winners finals before losing and being sent to losers finals. Swooper had to rematch IBDW and unfortunately lost the runback, but 3rd at a prestigious online tourney spells good things for the future of Swooper and samus

The year is 20xx. The game entirely consists of Samus players who can consistently Super-Duper wavedash. The only legal stage is adventure mode.

​@@pyrusvincent1029 Samus can still be viable even if Sheik is just better Samus. Give it time and some tist will pick her up 😅

I really disagree with that, luigi is unique enough to be viable, in my opinion the viability stops at ganondorf

@@pedrohdalla yeah ive been usin luigi for a bit and id say hes viable but yeah when it reaches ganondorf thats when it gets wonky

@@pedrohdalla i think ganon has some potential too. Maybe someone will come and show it like axe did with pika

@@tunacavus59 but the thing about ganondorf is that he is just too slow There nothing that he can do that cap falcon can't

@@pedrohdalla true but i see crazy ganondorfs everyday. Yes he is slow but if u play defensive while trying to hit strong moves he is pretty good.

@Random Person just wait until I fuck around and win Genesis with solo DK

same thing happend w yoshi

The meta won't develop any more than it has already. It's been 20 years. If you guys still think that some Mario main will rise up from nowhere and take a set from a top ten player you're smoking more than 2 joints.

@@hugovazquez7533 do it with bowser if you dare, pussy

@@Death_by_Inches nah

TheMaster Gon Im here with you bud.

Luigi is totally viable just needs a level of perfect play that isn't realistic.

Cries in mr game and watch

Luigi is really solid but still needs a super dedicated specialist to get the big boy results and that has proven to be too hard.

Cries in Doctor Mario

"Good Bracket" *Goes again 4 of the best fucking players the world has ever known, including Mango and fucking Leffen* "Fucking autistic player, garbage character, unplayable, lucky reeeEE"

@@vulpinequeen9269 if you beat all of them like what the fuck how that you lucky

@@oomar4597 Skill > Luck

But Pikachu has good matchups against fox, falco, Marth and Falcon, while pikachu gets destroyed by Shiek and Jigglypuff. Having a good bracket in this case means Axe didn’t have to face his worst matchups in Shiek and Jigglypuff. It doesn’t mean Mango, Zain, Wizzrobe and Leffen aren’t god tier players. I think Pikachu is viable, don’t get me wrong. But you’ve completely missed the point of the good bracket argument.

@@keagankrossman We understand the point of the "Good Bracket" argument. But saying Pikachu isn't viable because of their good bracket is entirely ridiculous. If a character has the ability to win a tournament, and has demonstrated this, then by all accounts they should be considered viable. We're poking fun at the fact people completely disregard someone's skill because of a "Lucky Bracket".

You’re right. Damn right.

Broken characters please nerf

Ok when you and other people do this kind of joke could you not include the "obvious" part it just makes it more cringey and more unfunny then it already was

GoldenChainy You’re right. Damn right.

@@MoltenSkull imo the misspelled obviously adds to the joke

Pre ordering a b0xx right now

Jimpa I ordered mine in January and it still hasn’t shown up, and the pieces come from China... The coronavirus really isn’t helping rn.

The year is 20XX...

@@berginite3004 - Patience, young one... Your time will come.

what

Kirby DOES kill his foes when he swallows them...

@@StevePiPi no he takes them to his pocket dimension

@@youraveragerobloxkid that was only in squeak squad (and the anime) but whatever

Define lynching and simp

how to make french toast

that would make the characters viable, making melee unplayable. bad joke 10/10

The game would be softlocked

I kinda wanna see a low tier bracket event now. Can only play the bottom half of the tier list.

@@jakezepeda1267 Hungrybox secondaries Ness so he would probably win that event

so really only kirbo and pichu

Axe is starting to feel the same way Mango felt 8 years ago.

Exactly. Yoshi wouldn’t be considered viable if it wasn’t for Amsa’s intense experimenting with the character.

In the same way as tier lists shouldn't be more than guidelines. Most of the time they are defined by how the top players perform with a character, not unlike the first definition for a viable character. But that can always change when someone comes along who plays something else. In fact, it might even make them more successful, because at the top everyone tends to practice against what the other top players use, so a different character can throw off those learned strategies.

unfortunately, melee is balanced poorly for certain characters and experimenting with them won't help them get results. the only exceptions to this, imo, are samus, luigi, yoshi, and ganon, but its reasonable why people don't want to play these characters. you need to work a lot harder to get the same results as the high tiers. it also doesn't help that these 4 all have weird gimmicks that you need to know about.

@@ass-wd4hp I feel like Doc and Icies also belong on that list. To me, Doc feels underdeveloped due to lack of representation and I feel like there might still be some things that the Icies can do that we don't know about because their punish game for the longest time revolved around wobbling.

@@HappyBeezerStudios This is why I prefer competitive pokemon's tier system, which are purely based on usage statistics alone, (OU - Overused, UU - Underused, RU - Rarelyused, etc.) because unlike a tier list, which might discourage newer players from trying out new pokemon, this system allows greater potential of underated pokemon to rise up in the ranks since usage alone is not the be-all-end-all in viability. This also allows for a space for pokemon who might be outclassed be viable in a tier in without the other pokemon that outclass other pokemon. Note: RU and UU pokemon can fight in OU but not vice versa. This logic applies to all tiers.

SilentSong how does he even do it lol

Cries in Mango's puff

Where are the other high level Pikachus

To be honest tho, 2saint has won big tournies and was only getting better till he took a break. Theres also dudes like Jerry, 42nd, Prince Abu goin crazy recently. Puff has a lot more strong representation than Pikachu. Although, i think Pikachu is viable, they just need to get better at the character.

I mean, what about Mang0

@@EvZaeYGO cause he totally STILL plays that character right?

at least young link gets attention from top players like axe and armada. Donkey Kong is the true underrated potential mid-tier

@@theonlybass8947 true

I'd also say Link too. The tech practice pays off so much, especially with hookshot & bombs

More like underage

@@groundedgameplayx With Aklo now, your statement aged like fine wine

We all did. Yoshi is viable.

Birch

I was just thinking that, I think Luigi is definitely Viable

Luigi's recovery is soooooooooo bad tho.

@@Thierce down B max speed mashing + side B or up B, doesn't sound THAT bad to me distance wise. I'm pretty sure down B is kinda hard to punish with edgeguards and such too ;u Also, well, others "top tiers" characters recovery aren't that good they are still top tier :u

@@Ukkosade You can only use down-b to regain height once off-stage tho. You need to use it again on stage for it to be able to make you gain height. side-b is also extremely laggy, which makes it very easy to punish off stage, and Luigi's horizontal drift is so bad that if you hit him while he's off-stage once, well he's most likely dead unless he gets a misfire. I'd also argue that none of the top tiers have straight up bad recoveries, since they can all be mixed-up somewhat. However, once luigi is sent far enough off stage, he has no choice but to side-b, which leads him wide open to hits. His up-b is also incredibly linear, which makes it easy to jsut hold ledge and refresh invincibility. The down-b can be used to mix-up his recovery by delaying when he up-bs, but the move is also very telegraphed and laggy so once again all you have to do is hold ledge and properly refresh invincibility.

@@Thierce poor luigi :( Well imo falco recovery isn't that great, sheik hasn't huge range, peach has huge flaws, fox has huge openings in the starting time ... luigi's recovery might have flaws but so are theirs. But his tools, very fast mobility with soap-coated boots (XD), very powerful moves and tools ... I'm pretty sure he could achive great things if there was a true luigi god to appear tbh

I think the point of Ganon was to demonstrate a character that an extreme optimist, given his definition of viable, would consider viable.

@@yamezjournal3916 Like other guy in this comment section said: "There simplely isn't anything that Ganon can do that Falcon can't"

@@yamezjournal3916 And its kinda funny, considering that melee is the only game in the smash franchise where the great King of evil isnt garbage

@@TDG386 Ganon operates a lot differently from Falcon actually. He's more of a zoner since his moves have larger hitboxes. His uair (the tipman) has a hitbox on the end of it that spikes AND it will hit sweetspots to the ledge. Ganon has a chaingrab on a bunch of characters. His jab is frame 3 and does 7%...it's one of the best in the game. Obviously Falcon is the better character but if you think all Ganon is is just a worse version you don't really know anything about the character.

Gannon's in about the same situation in Ultimate as he is in Melee. It's just that there are a lot more matchups for him to deal with.

I deadass believe in you Daniel Brian

Someone as to do it! Because i still need some training.

Lol okay good I was wondering why no one was pointing this out

@@ChillavaKirby "consistent top 8s is clearly a sign of viability, characters' tools don't change based on the player" Doesn't even list doc as viable because shroomed "hasn't played him in years"

@@NicholasSunderland The thing about Doc is, since Shroomed dropped him. No other Doc has ever made a top 8 at a super major, more than one top 10 win and top 30. Also, Shroomed dropped Doc 6 years ago now. The meta has developed since then, so it might be even worse than back then. It might be possible, he was shown yellow after all. But AsumSaus decided to not include him. Doc is the hardest character to decide on if he is viable, but by current results being closer to G&W than Yoshi. I'd say he is unviable.

@@vublia2670 he is pretty much unviable for victory as a main. As a secondary i can see it.

When did he say that?

Lot of words to just state the obvious.

I liked it king

But was armada lucky that he won evo with peach

Puppet inputs suck, even in normal fighting games lol

@Puppet ummmmmm nope

N air

@@user-te8wm8gd1k nair is a nair, his up smash and lazers though....those make me want to go into a time machine back to late 2001 and blast sakurai with enough radation to watch him fucking melt before my god damn eyes

King Krispy yeah, obviously

PICHU TOP TIER BABYYYY

what about Roy

@@LucasSilva-em7fk that's my main

Mario, Kirby, Bowser, Pichu, Link and Zelda are SSS+ tiers

mewtwo is so much better than those two

Lmao

I still don’t understand why ninja made this quote, did he lose to a noob on stream or something?

Humans can't change genders, sir.