A lot of people feel it's nitpicking to ask people to actually put a bit of effort into their 30k armies. I can understand this, but we (or I, I suppose) aren't being a rivet counter, what I'll let slide is a pretty long list, I just ask that someone applies some of the same level of effort to building a 30k army that I did. I think no 30k player is going to ask you to have a fully Forge World army, by the same token, if you don't have the funds to do so, nobody is going to exclude you if you use your 40k army. As I said in the video, a stopgap measure, such as using your 40k minis because you can't afford 30k, is fine! The line is basically drawn at people who have the capacity to build a 30k army, the funds to do so, but refuse to out of sheer laziness. Lastly, apply this logic to other games. If someone bought a Space Marine army to Age of Sigmar, some eyebrows would raise. If someone had an M1A1 Abrams mixed in with their Shermans in Bolt Action, I'd have questions. You use the right model for the right game, and it's not elitist IMO to expect people to put that tiny little bit of effort in, and this is the key phrase *where able*.
I mean Mk7 came out during siege of terra but the only army with the excuse to have it are Blood Angels, Imperial fists, and space wolves for a 30k army.
I know I'm 4 years late to the party, but 40k Predators, Rhinos, and Land Raiders (Not Redeemers or Crusaders) are all honestly fine for 30k seeing as the Mars-pattern WAS in use alongside the Deimos-pattern stuff.
@@the98themperoroftheholybri33 lmao yes they were. Deimos-pattern vehicles were produced on Deimos, Mar-pattern vehicles (The ones in regular 40k) were produced on Mars throughout the GC and HH.
You're much more discriminating on vehicles than I am, but much more relaxed on power armor. For vehicles, just because it says "40k" on the box doesn't mean it's not appropriate. I can't find a hard-and-fast date for the appearance of the mars-pattern land raiders or the 40k auto cannon predators. Add that to the fact that the FW versions of those vehicles are almost twice as much as the plastic counterparts... I disagree. Vehemently. I'd rather buy the plastic kits and spend the leftover cash on upgrade components like legion doors and armor mods. Also, I hate the styling on the deimos stuff. Those single front windows and round turrets are gross. Sincerely, A post-heresy *Crimson* Fists player, because I won't paint yellow.
They're all built from pre-heresy patterns. Humans didn't invent anything new until the tau showed up. The 3rd edition lore was all about SPCs and how no new technology had been invented since pre-heresy.
The good thing about 30k models is you can use them in 40k, just use astartes squads as veterans in relic armour, as older armour is revered in the 40k universe
I'm not the one paying my opponent's bills. I don't know what they can afford... I'd rather have a good game, even with iffy figures (WYSIWYG applying) than sucking my thumb because someone's 40K army does not look like my 30K legion. Maybe at a tourney it might be different, but down the local club and with your mates, if you are being a picky bogan, good luck in getting any games after a while. I alone judge what is right and wrong for me, and I will not throw rocks at folks who cannot afford to delve neck deep into the right models to get a good game going.
My rule of thumb was to scale my criticism to the skill of the painter. If they show up with an army that has obvious putty work and free handing detailed icons and banners, then maybe I'd hold them to these standards. If they show up and all of their models are out of the box and the paint is simple? Definitely not. That said, he's specifically judging people who are showing off their 30k models with decent labour. So there is some merit, but he's dead wrong about the land raiders; I'm pretty sure I've seen art of the siege of Terra with land raiders rolling around
@@phillyb4588 Wrong. They're in the books, were around and doesn't matter how rare they are as you aren't fielding forces from 14 warzones in your list are you.
@@krilc Because not everyone is willing to spend double the price, and it's still theumatic. Also how is it lazy? If it's nicely painted does it matter?
Don't use your 40k Primarch in 30k. Well, why not? Right now there are only 2 Primarchs in 40k, and Gilliman looks nothing like how he was in 30k, since he is literally wearing a life-support unit after his 10.000 year nap in a stasis field. So that leaves Magnus. And Magnus looks more or less the same as he could have looked at any point during the Great Crusade, and DID look after the Burning of Prospero (that happened at the start of the Horus Heresy). So I would say that using the new plastic model of Magnus is actually more fitting for 30k, since it fits the Horus Heresy, while the resin model is more fitting for the Great Crusade.
When the time is right, use your 40k Primarchs. I don't think however that we are there yet. For narrative games or whatever, fill your boots, anything can probably be explained away with a good story.
I'm a 40k player with no real urge to play 30k, but I can understand this. Putting some effort into your models should be what everyone has a go at. Using the correct models (or reasonable counts as) is kinda step one. For example i don't like wings on my iron warriors daemon prince so combined a havok launcher, exhausts from a chaos bike, the intakes from an old metal raptor jet pack ans a whole lot of green stuff he now has a iron warrior style jetpack. My iron warriors are going to be getting a face-lift for 8th in the form of a lot of mrk4 armor (look a bit more IW than just bog standard chaos armor) and maybe forgeworld iron warrior specific shoulder pads. Edit: Thats a point, would an army using some 40k chaos armor (it looks older with exposed piping on the chests) a lot of mark 4 armor components with IW period shoulder pads and period weapons be acceptable?
Good video, as always, but one small addition. With those Alpha Legion marines, I think the Mk8 chestplate is fine for the look it was going for, which is more of a sapper/demolitionist with extra plating around the neck. Seems very Alpha Legion.
In the year 2023 AD people are bitching about heresy armour and tanks when plastic heresy has been a thing since 2015 and most units were viable with very minor conversion work.
I'm actually really interested to hear your opinion on "regular" conversions in 40K. I've made a few models that could get a WTF from my opponent initially, until I explain it, and then they're like "Ok, that's cool."
i do actually want to say that MK 7 is actually a heresy era armour system, it was only deployed during the siege however and very few Astartes wore a set of it
Just to add some info on the aquilas found on things - The Palatine Aquila (wings raised, both heads blind / no detail, twin lightining added) - was the symbol of the Emperor himself, only the Emperors Children were permitted to wear it. The Imperial Aquila - (wings straight to the sides, one head blind, the other sees) - was and continues to be symbol of the Imperium, loyalist symbol post-HeresyLeaving Aquila on the tanks and gear is okay as its a generic symbol of the imperium - not the emperors own emblem. At least that's my understanding of things
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Cypher from the Chaos range... to my untrained eye the armour looks quite appropriate, perhaps with a backpack swap. The armour looks archaic enough and the cloak covers a lot of stuff, while the pistol looks quite old fashioned and quirky like some other 30k stuff
@@gozewstuffnthings5837 yeah, context matters if that land raider is in a force that's otherwise been built from 30k models and painted appropriately for the era, I think you're the bad guy for saying "the sponsons on that one tank are uncommon to this era! my immersion is ruined!"
Gozew StuffNThings it honestly comes off lazy, everyone including myself who have spent gobs of money making my army look authentic then I fight a guy with a GW 40k land raider.... it’s not nearly as much fun, also we know only a couple legions had a couple of the very rare Mars pattern raider, a night lords player or white scars player with them.... come on.
To all the people in the comments complaining about the rhino and landraider comments, you're missing the point, its about taking measures so your heresy army fits into the aesthetic, if you drop into a competition with a clearly 40k army and everyone else has brought their 30k army don't expect a warm welcome. Yes you have to bring or make something that fits into 30k, if you argue against it then why bother being in the hobby at all? Just bring some green plastic toy soldiers...
Im working on my 13th company right now, all 30k....loads of time building a converting so far, that's all finished now, all demios stuff, mk3 armour, and I plan on doing them in the true grey, duplicating the knot work with a black and gold micropen. I also appreciate those that take the effort to build 30k wysiwyg.
I'm on quite the opposite in many examples. I'm totally fine with any vehicle. The reason is, that the ones featured by FW are just specific patterns from specific planets that where widely spread around the time of HH. That does not mean, that you can't use the plastic kits if you so choose (as long as you show all the right weapons options etc). Same for Bolt Guns. There were several patterns around during the Heresy. With the power armour I'm way more strict. MK6 is only for Raven Guard and maybe some Alpha Legion. Every other legion has to be clad in MK2-4 (or maybe 5). No way around that. I'm ok if my opponent uses MK6/7 arms for close combat weapons, even though I do not appreciate it either. If you have a modell in artificer armour the look may be different, even using parts of MK7, as long as the main armour is still Heresy.
Zekatar I don't agree. The Death Guard predator is vlearly 40k: the annihilator pattern was discovered only in M32, so couldn't possibly count as 30k - even if they used the Deimos pattern rhino as a base instead of the Mars pattern.
Mostly agree but for one thing, Mk6 can be used by any legion BUT it's the numbers that is an issue. Raven Guard should almost entirely be mk6, all the others the ratio of mk6 to other marks should be FAR lower (it wasn't exclusive to Raven Guard but they were the ones testing it, from what I've read though their testing was mostly done and it was starting to be shipped out in small numbers to other legions when the Horus Heresy hit). Not to mention if its post dropsite massacre you can up the ratio of mk6 armour in the other legions (salvaged). But yea overall what you said
Yes and no. The Raven Guard tested it, but from the book "Deliverence Lost" it seems there was no armor left in the legion from the testing. AFTER the drop site massacre the first shipment of MK6 from mars was going to the Raven Guard as a thanks for the testing and then it was produced on the Forgeworld of the Raven Guard for them. It is likely that at the end of the Heresy the whole RG (or at least almost all of them) used MK6. As for the other legions: WS where out in the galaxy and could only have the for the time of the siege on terra, same for BA. IF would have them being located just besides Mars. The Rest of the loyalists was never close to Terra and no one knew really much about them, so no shipment of new armor to them. At the traitors side of course all of them could loot them from Raven Guard (and the IF did not leave Terra), but in fact the RG just really clashed with Word Bearers, Sons of Horus and Night Lords. There where some battles against others but not enough to justify salavaged armor in notable quantitys. Alpha Legion however may have stolen it direktly from the RG when they infiltrated them.
What about 40k terminators? According to the fluff, that mark did existed, just without the crux terminatus. If I remember correctly, they even have rules in the red book.
I can't believe this vid was released in 2017. 30K has literally never been easier to get into. The following walls of text are all my opinion, but as someone who's in the setting for fluff rather than crunch, I feel that this is pretty reasonable. Step 1 for doing the Heresy: Understand that power armour, even suits from the same mark, will have variations. They might be made on different Forge Worlds, they might be personalised by the wearer, they might be MK V, which is basically a substandard suit made with poor-quality materials and scavenged/improvised components. Hell, they might even be artificer armour. Some Legions/Chapters have bits that'll do the job for other Legions also - SW parts, especially the furs and the tassels, will look good on WS ans SoH with some work done to make them less immediately Fenrisian. Step 2 for doing the Heresy: Understand that there are more than a single production site for tanks, transports and the like. Depending on what people do locally, you might even get away with using WW2/WW1 models to represent tanks, depending on their scale (real-world tanks have different proportions and to-scale models will look small and feeble in comparison, so you might want to use a larger scale). Either way, GW/Mars-pattern Rhinos and Land Raiders are FINE, and perfectly fluffy depending on the background of your army. Step 3 for doing the Heresy: Understand that all of the above holds especially true for individualistic/artistic/handcrafty Legions like EC, S, NL, SW, WE, SoH, BA etc. Step 4 for doing the Heresy: Understand that just flat-out using MK VII for anything more than playtesting/getting your feet wet is insulting and will be treated with a lack of respect. With BaC/BoP out, there has never (NEVER) been easier to get a Legion force in authentic Heresy/Great Crusade style Power Armour, and for far less than if you'd bought individual 40K Tactical Squads. For a beginner/the less financially stable it's a fairly large plunge, but the savings are substantial and you can pick up individual squads from eBay/GW. Step 5 for doing the Heresy: Try to put in effort. This might sound obvious, but for a very long time 30K was a setting reserved for those with the dedication to build their forces with FW stuff piece by piece, or convert the appropriate things from 40K kits. The vast majority of these armies are painted to a very high standard, and often created with a backstory in mind. NEVER field an unpainted mass of grey. As an absolute minimum, prime your models, paint them the base colour, give them a light drybrush and wash, then pick out details with one or two other colours. Depending on your skill you can get decent minis with this way of painting without an obscene amount of effort, and people are likelier to be more welcoming if you at least make a genuine effort. Keeping the above in mind, some GW kits are fine to use while others might be better to give a pass. Personally, I'd be fine with any of the tanks or transports that have rules for 30K, bikes, terminators and models with artificer armour like Sanguinary Guard used to convert Palatine Blades with jump packs et cetera. A squad of Chaos Space Marines can be used to spice up most armies, though my opinion is that they led themselves especially well to the more brutal Traitor Legions what with all the spikes etc - You basically get MK V armour with some parts from other Marks thrown in. As with 40K, pretty much anything goes to represent the Imperial Army (and, to a lesser extent, the Solar Auxilia). Mechanicum can be represented just fine with GW kits, though I definitely recommend that you convert your army to personalize it. Particularly Skitarii, Sicarians and Kastelans can find their home in the 30K Mechanicum. As a final thought, the Talons of the Emperor are very powerful and look fabulous. If you can stand painting all that gold, feel free to take the plunge.
Great video, I actually started a RU-vid account to comment! I share similar ideas of what gets me out of the Horus Heresy feel when seeing certain models in my army or my opponents, efforts in painting or slight conversions go a long way in making the opponent accept the model as genuine and enjoy playing against it. MK VIII is a no go and lots of MK VII legs are hurting as it is so easy with a scalpel to give them a MK IV or MK V feel. Something I will accept is chapter/legion specific armour (as mentioned even BA or IF) for representing artificer armour. With the availability of the Calth and Prospero boxes using the right helmets/bare heads or bolters helps a lot to keep in character with the representation of a legion. Milita is a good way to get use out of old IG models like Steel Legion or Old Cadians, New Cadians pull me right forward into the 40K era.
It's not asking much for people to put a little effort in. Sadly, people aren't understanding those points in the video, and think it's just an attack.
Firstly congrats on hitting 1K subs, well done to you guys, keep up the salty content! While the authentic look of the 30K range is great, it isn't essential before having fun games and enjoying the hobby. I always appreciated the spirit in which the Black Books were written which encourages us players to play and enjoy the era first and not to get hung up on having all the right models. Here are a few specific counter points for salt-value: 1. Is there anything to say the standard plastic Land Raider is not canon in 30K? True, have the MKIIb from FW but I've not read anything to say the 40K pattern of the Phobos was not around in the Heresy.... although correct me if I'm wrong. Oh, while we are at it what about the original plastic LR model? Lead by example: the predator at 6:38 is rules wrong for 30K *however* Book V Tempest makes this exact error in jacket art showing a predator with a twin-linked lascannon turret. Or is it really an error? 3. The Horus Heresy card game and visions books have a huge variety of the weird and wonderful armour mash ups. MK VII armour looks not the best but it's hardly the end of the world. Cheers for the video :)
As I sort of say in the video, I'm fine with the armour, just put a tiny bit of effort into it. squaring off the kneepads, filing off aquilas, etc. it really doesn't take a huge deal of effort to make an army people are cool with. Literally helmets and shoulder pads will often be considered good enough.
With the fall of the only 30k boxes they had on Games Workshop, watching this video has given me quite a few good ideas what to do to get some 30k squads. Now I need to understand only the weapon part of the conversion.
I heard your notification, thinking it was mine, and was like, "what? Where'd that come from?" for 3 minutes before I gave up, unpaused the video, and heard you apologize for your notification. Kill me.
I don't think I could ever give a single fuck, honestly. The hobby is expensive enough as it is without expecting people to shell out for forge world kits or spend ages on conversions just so they can play with the ruleset they prefer. When you go to play a game vs someone, are you picking up all of their minis, staring at every minute detail, and then giving them a yay or nay on whether they're up to scratch? If so, what the fuck is wrong with you? That said, I do appreciate an army that's had a lot of work put into it. I just don't think it should be a requirement to play any particular ruleset.
As I mention in the video quite deliberately, 'stopgaps' and 'what circumstances dictate'. This is because I recognise that not everyone will have the ability to do a 30k army, and if it's circumstances beyond their control, that's totally fine. What I'm talking about as being the issue is more lazy people who play 40k using their same 40k army in 30k, with all their 40k stuff, when they have the time, funds, ability etc. to actually do a 30k army, but who make all the excuses in the world as to why they can't.
fair enough then fan of the videos btw, but this one did come across a bit elitist. Its like saying to your mate you wont play a game with them cos they havent got all the DLC or something
I prefer to think of it as you can't play the same version of the game because you have different patches, not that you don't want to play your friend. You just have to find the 'patch' that works for you.
Only nitpick was with the Mars pattern Land Raiders which COULD be alright, though I think the twin heavy bolter turret does need work. I think you were pretty fair TBH.
Alot of people in the comments are missing the point of the video entirely: It's to simply ask what is and isn't 30k. It's not video about what you can't and cannot do in order to play game 30k. He is not saying that your miniatures, effort of work or paint job is bad. It is fine not to be accurate. No one is going to expect 40k player who may occasionally want to play match of 30k to have fully fledged army that fits the time theme. People are understandable and so long as the units represent remotely what they are supposed to be in order to keep the game fluid: there are no issues. If anything the 30k player would be thrilled to have match with this new person who shares the same hobby is taking interest of the rules and setting of different time from same universe! The problem comes when you make the claim that it's 30k army, when it clearly ain't and that is the point of the video. If you call it 30k army, then these are the things you need to pay attention to. THAT is the 'elitism' and point of this video.
Hello Outer Circle. I have enjoyed the HH novel series and model range. Mostly using HH models MKIII and MKIV armour marines in my 40k armies. One of my projects is newer CSM torsos(&legs) with MKIII arms, shoulders and heads, with MKIV backpacks painted as Sons of Horus. I respect your advice and your videos are helping me alot when consider if I will get more into 30k playset and rules. What are your thoughts on using the newer CSM bodies as the bases for MKV (Heresy era) armour?
I don't think it's elitism to expect 30k stuff to fit the appearance of 30k, i always want my fellow gamer to put effort into their models, and we've probably all thought the same at some point. Here's a good example: Remember when Fantasy Ogres were release? remember the hype over such big chunky detailed plastic models? Remember how many Guard players suddenly bolstered their force with 'plastic' Ogyrns? Yeah, it didn't help a WD article basically gave it the thumbs up. They suggested you stick on hatch plates over the Ogre Gut-plate, greenstuff beards, boots convert Ripper guns out of big-shootas, etc - But let's be honest they looked WHFB as fuck, and some people put minimal to no effort in. This is the same. Imagine using AoS Orruk brute as Meganobz but making no effort to give them shoota weapons or even any Orky gunz at all, just counting their big fantasy swords as 'Power klaws' you would roll your eyes at something lazy like that, no matter how good the intent
In 40k you can get away with having primitive looking units though, especially if you make some background fluff up from where they're recruited from, where their equipment comes from etc. Hell 40k even provides its own fluff describing recruitment from feral worlds, how some make their own very basic equipment from mechanicus templates that any idiot could make etc. I wouldn't expect to see that in 30k unless it was a word bearers meat shield regulars (see fluff to explain it)
13:42 Those aren't heresy era dark angels. Those are consecrators, a dark angels successor chapter dedicated to finding lost dark angels relics in the ruins of caliban, their chapter master has one of the few obsidian blades granted to him from azrael by right of salvage
I really liked this video and I think it is a fair point to raise. And i agree that when you put a lot of effort and care into your army you want to immerse yourself and play against people who do the same. and when you get a greater influx of people who buy plastic you will start facing people who just Phone it in and do jacksies. for me the Importance lies in both adhering to a theme as well as putting work into your army. one of the guys i face plays III' d and is a student. he has almost no vehicles. and has built his own phoenix and breachers from BoP parts and it looks Great for me customization is an inherent part of the army and as long as people do good work and try yo look like it fits the era or theme. but then again i run a Phobos with default sponsons since that is what i had when i started. Ive done a AL scheme and decalwork to try and fit it in though and Im pretty happy with it
I actually uploaded a video to your facebook page, showing what happened at my local gaming store. These people also wanted to start a 30k campaign without painted and/ or without 30k models.
Round knee pads are featured heavily in Horus Heresy art, Corax bodyguard in the Black Library books all feature round knee pads and models with round knee pads are shown in the Black books. I agree full MKVII isn't HH but I don't get the hate for round knee pads.
Probably not, rule of thumb is: people are cool with it as long as you put some effort into converting your army to look more 30k. And it sounds like you put some thought into your conversions, no one asks for more than that.
I've always been confused about mixing and matching different marks of armour during the heresy or great crusade. It's hard to say if they actually did that or not.
From what I understand they wouldn't have at the start of the heresy, but as they went on they had to scavenge as things got damaged and they couldn't easily replace it. That's why mark 5 got designed (the one with all the studs) - it was cheap and very easy to mass produce, but was inferior quality to the mark 4 they were just rolling out at the start of the heresy.
Good video, it is kinda tricky at times to say what is proper 30k since there was different variants of powered armor suits being used through out the Horus Heresy but for sure Mk.6 suits were quite common in the waning days of the Heresy and then for nearly 10,000 years until the Imperium upgraded to the Mk.7 and even then you still see older variants mixed in with current types. The Red Scorpions, to set themselves apart from the rest of the Marines, use reproductions of the Mk.4 Maximus suits that at first glance someone would think that is a 30k army. I think it ultimately comes down to the patterns of the weapons and vehicles but then again.....you have the Consecrators chapter that exclusively wears only Mk.6 suits and the weapons and vehicles they use are of ancient patterns.
From what i know MARK VI was made before while the Heresy was ramping up and MARK VII was made on Terra in the beginning of the siege, armor smith from mars where brought to Terra so thats why Mark VII is ok limited. And still my Blood Angels are based arround The Siege of Terra, people give me .... for using one Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard helmet Mark VII with Halo for a Sergeant even when the Lore says was made during the last Stages of the Horus Heresy (not to be confused with the Purge Period after)
I don't know about the chaos warrior legs. The chainmail looks cool, but they're supposed to be wearing power armour, not power armour - leg armour + random leather boots. I've seen people do similar things by sticking chaos space marine backpacks on blood warriors, and while it has a somewhat similar silhouette, it's not power armour. Maybe I'm just a harsh critic.
The only issue is Mk.7/8 armour (mostly unless in limited quantities) and bolters, anything else is fine, except exclusively 40K marine vehicles see: stalker tank, land speeder storm, fliers (as much as not getting Tempest annoys me), Razorback and the Land Raider Ares/Crusader/Hyperios/Prometheus/Redeemer... some things are not justifiable, but anything that was available in 30K that exists in 40K in any pattern is legit... Mars Pattern is legit.
this gave me an idea for my mk7 guys. I got lots of mk6 heads but not enough money for 30 sets of pads. I've started shaving the rim off the mk7 pads. looks pretty good.
Nothing needs to be done to land raiders. his beef with the 40K kit makes no sense. There are different marks of land raider The Proteus, Achilles, the IIB Phobos. The Phobos being the forerunner of the modern land raider which showed up late in the heresy. Same goes with Rhino/Predators. The Mars and Deimos patterns were both made during the great crusade, with the Mars (40k) chassis being the cheaper/less reliable variant.
At 8:10, could that actually be the missing MK9 power armour armour? And any Aquila symbol on the armours would scream 40k as opposed to 30k unless they were painted purple/gold if iam not mistaken, i removed those from mine anyway, but i use that army for 40k instead.
I'm thinking of using a lot of older marks such as mark III power armour for my 40k army as I personally prefer it. Would there be anything lore wise that would stop me from doing this. My custom chapter is a third founding chapter, and the armour has been passed down from the iron hands chapter as they upgraded.
sam newman Yeah- actually all of the Deathwatch are supposed to be in Mk.8 “Errant Armour “- I bought the Start Collecting box and the Kill Team Cassius set when they came out, and they mostly had Mk.8... mostly. More in the Starter box though, if I remember right- =][=
Would you give a pass to this for my World Eaters...a Baal Predator - obviously with all the Blood Angel/Imperium insignia filed off - armed with twin-linked assault cannon and sponson heavy bolters, and embellished with the fuel tanks of the Flamestorm Cannon?
tbf dude, alot of folks cant afford fw prices and may only be able to purchase geedubs kits. the effort to file stuff down and tweak here and there is always welcome but not everyones as comfident as some of us old dogs. guess what im saying is that its not really fair to demonise players who want to get involved in the heresy but cant afford the fw prices. we're all one community who share a love for grim dark tales in a grim dark future... lets not divide it by being zealos elitists. but tbf it is your opinion, im just offering a counter to it :)
As I mention in the video quite deliberately, 'stopgaps' and 'what circumstances dictate'. This is because I recognise that not everyone will have the ability to do a 30k army, and if it's circumstances beyond their control, that's totally fine. What I'm talking about as being the issue is more lazy people who play 40k using their same 40k army in 30k, with all their 40k stuff, when they have the time, funds, ability etc. to actually do a 30k army, but who make all the excuses in the world as to why they can't.
I think the comments towards the rhinos and land raiders where a little unfair, in the book 3 extermination in the iron warriors section, it outright shows a 40k rhino calling it the mars pattern and says while it was not common during the Horus heresy because the Deimos pattern was superior, they did exist and was used and would make sense if you set your army later in the heresy
@@TheOuterCircle I see, currently I’m working on a converted land speeder for the raven guard which may not be a rhino or a land raider, I am mainly flattening the front section and removing the door on the back of the speeder and removing some side panels around where the feet are so it looks similar to some of the artwork of the land speeder from the Horus heresy
So basically if I had Sons of Horus Mark 4 heads, torsos, shoulder pads, and Tigrus Pattern bolters but used Chaos Space Marine arms and Legs would that work for Horus Heresy?
I'd like to ask reverse. What do you think could be ok to port from 30k to 40k? Do you think for example it'd be fine to play 30k Iron Warriors (mk. 3 power armour, etc.) in 40k normally? What about some loyalists?
Of course. Old armor and patterns a revered in 40k and i cant see anyone being against you paying them. Also 30k an 40k is aimed at two different crowd. 30k is clearly more lore oriented and aimed toward narrative play and their player want more immersion . That"s pretty much why they insist to have lore appropriate gear. 40k is by nature more of a hodgepodge since "old" armor are used beside "recent" stuff and it encompass way more then just the loyalist/heretic conflict .
Kolizuljin Yup- I totally back up what you said. While I may disagree a little about them ONLY appealing to two different crowds- some players, quite a few as far as I know, do enjoy both systems. 30K armour and weapons can always port forward into 40K- a lot of the time, specific weapons and/or suits of armour are considered to be sacred relics- part of the living history of the Legion related to it’s present version as a Chapter. They are worn ceremonially, given as awards for especially meritorious service, or used by exemplary Chapter Champions, Chapter Masters, etc. All depending on the availability and number of the items- many Traitor Legions who still have stores of MKIII or MKIV armour, or Tigrus, Phobos, or Umbra pattern bolters may use them to outfit their rank and file, if more modern Marks are in short supply. However, the same does not hold true the other way around, porting 40K armour and weapons back into 30K- it’s kind of hard to equip your army with weaponry that hasn’t been invented yet! Anyway- yeah, I agree- just wanted to emphasize and elaborate on your point. 👍🏾
honestly guys im with him, he just means for his hobby, not saying that others that are all ok with getting a 40k army and just painting them is "wrong" just that he and others thinks it doesn't fit, that and i think hes just trying to warn others that want to go to a shop with their army just saying "hey they might nitpick this or that"
The Outer Circle lol and im glad your videos are helping me understand whats good for a 30k army, i love kit bashing and all that so after my ork force is done i wanna make 30k style army based around a missing primearch, oh and speaking of 30k i just kinda thought of something, why did the imperium go from chain axes to chain swords? it seems that yes they are a better weapon for war, but the issues with the axe should have been seen almost as soon as they started production, or were chain swords used widely even then? sorry just a random question that i cant really find info on lol and thanks again for the help :)
The chainswords seem to have been the go-to, but the chain axe was used during unification and by certain tribes who were recruited into the Legions. I believe they were abandoned due to their connection with savage natured legions like the World Eaters and due to the standardisation of equipment when the Codex Chapters were formed. I could be wrong on this however.
The Outer Circle huh, interesting, i thought that the heresy might have been the cause, thank you for that :) do you think it would be ok for a loyalist legion to use chain axes mostly? i want my legion to be a mix of the iron hands and world eaters only loyal to the emperor, i feel like that could be why they were lost, too burtal to survive past the heresy since everyone was too worried they would be interested in chaos
Alexis Simms Um... Yeah as both used chain axes during the Heresy. You could always play them as loyalist traitor legion as the "missing" primarchs aren't missing. They were expunged from Imperial records for unknown reason. There are hints that Leman Russ and his Wolves executed one of them. Play them as a group of traitor legion that were not present for the drop site massacre and renounced their legions and remained loyal to the Emp. Maybe a joint task force separate for a special mission prior to the event of Istavaan 3. Have fun.
@The Outer Circle Just wanted to point out the blood angels here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4248SpFlA7Y.html Are mine - they also were built as a 40k squad. They're from Blood Angels 3rd company (which is why they have the white blood drops). Also. Considering three out of four models have completely reposed legs, and one model has a sculpted right hand to allow for a left handed bolter pose, describing anything about the squad as lazy is just plain rude.
As I said at the start, I'm not saying they are for 30k or 40k, just that they are being used for demonstration purposes. I used them because they made good examples in the what-if environment. It's not intended to be a serious critique of the actual models on display (there's some really questionable stuff in there) but instead to say "if I saw this opposite me, how would I react".
So, I hadn't watched the entire video initially (Your video popped up in my suggested videos - with MY models as the placeholder image lol...) Watched it all, wow. Firstly: The comment about Blood Angels/Imperial Fists (or even white scars) and Mk7, its utter tripe, the logic of 'well the armour didn't exist in earlier heresy battles' doesn't mean anything, because, whether you like it or not, mk7 was specifically worn by the loyalists at the siege, and the siege wasn't even over quickly. Furthermore, from a fluff background, blood angels have no business fighting any marines (except maybe world eaters/word bearers due to imperium secundus) prior to the siege, so by that rationale, they shouldn't be used in games. A draw for players of those armies is it gives them access to a greater variety of kits than other legions, likewise they (well, specifically blood angels and white scars) have had to wait longer for rules to make them as competitive or enjoyable in 30k. I agree an army 100% made up of mk7 is probably not 'heresy appropriate' but using mk7 for a portion of a heresy army is absolutely fine for some loyalist armies, it's not hand waving, its actually themeing said army around arguably THE most important heresy event said army is part of. The blood angels right before mine? They have heresy colours, have clearly had a LOT of effort put into them and are actually part of lil legend studios excellent heresy army (with most of it being earlier marks). If you're at all wondering, I have a very varied mix of earlier marks and later marks in my blood angels, and I do indeed use them for both 30k and 40k, I probably have 200 or so marines (possibly more) with likely 2/3 of them being earlier mks than mk7... does that mean I wouldnt use mk7 in my heresy army despite making the "effort" to buy stock heresy models and stick them together in standard poses? hell no, seeing as half the mk7 ones have been far more carefully converted and had far more effort than many other players have put into their builds. I also have two kids, a mortgage and plenty of other things to pay for, so why built two incredibly expensive armies when I can build 1, and have some 40k unique units for 40k games and some 30k unique units for my 30k games?
What may work for Blood Angels won't work for most traitors or certain other Legions. Yes, it's cost prohibitive, I myself have a mortgage. But right models for the right game, even if you have lovingly crafted marines for 40k, they are still 40k marines. Your army as a whole? Eh, I'd probably play it just fine TBH, but again, you wouldn't see people using Tiger tanks and calling them Razorbacks, so people probably shouldn't be using 40k marines with all the 40k trappings and pretending it's 30k. I say probably because since the aesthetics are so similar and there is no line that doesn't make someone a model nazi, it's always open to debate. BTW, I'd love to see pics of the army sometime in full, if you could email them to u or pm us on Facebook, that'd be pretty sweet. ~Macca
Whilst I can agree with some of the points you raise, for me what is more important than models used is knowing the rules. I went to a HH tournament and played a imperial fists player who used all period specific models. However he was using the stone gauntlet rite of war, yet he had more elite and fast attack units than troops which made his list invalid. Either he was lazy and did not read rules properly or was knowingly cheating. Yes the models add to immersion, however it is a game and if someone is too lazy to know their army rules or knowingly cheats is a much bigger issue for me than the models used.
I wanted to ask, are HH players more interested in the narrative and the models, rather than tournament style play? Hard core 40k puts me off, so I'm thinking of going 30k.
HH can have some competitiveness, but on a scale of 1-10 with 40k being a 10, HH would never be more than about a 6. In Australia it never would be more than a 3 or 4.
Hi The Outer Circle, thats good to know! I've got a lot to read before I settle on a force. So far, it's either Militia, Imperial Fists or Blackshields, which I've only just heard about. I like the idea of either Militia or Blackshields, as you get to write a bit of your own narrative for them.
the modern mars pattern 40k vehicles were in production before the end of the crusade. Mk 7 came into production during heresy. 30K to me is not simply the 10 year heresy but the crusade and even a century or two after the heresy as the legions are breaking up and the chapters but still have a fair amount of legion kit to llay with. Then again to me a dude in power armour is a dude in power armour.
I agree and disagree with the opinions in this video. For one, building a 40k army and painting it heresy themed is not little effort...is it a ton of effort?...no, is it a reasonable amount of effort?...possibly. Let’s take this one step further , a player swaps out all of the shoulder pads to heresy pads, and then paints it heresy themed, that’s a much better amount of effort, one step further after that, he switched the helmets as well, now you start to see a very nice amount of effort, i for one don’t concern myself with legs, or arms. I believe the biggest foul would be someone who uses a full primarus space marine Army, aggressors, and even a hover tank lol, that guy/gal clearly gives no F#€£$, and will probably get less and less games in over time. I would much rather see bases with bottle caps glued on, that literally no effort at all, a person like that clearly has little money, and I would no more spit on a homeless guy for being homeless, that not play with a person with bottle cap models , just trying to have some fun. The game is about fun, however it’s also about emersion. Otherwise why even play with GW models at all? Thank you for reading :)
@@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290 See, we don't have to be fighting all the time. We can agree that both our legions look their sexiest in a suit of MK III Iron
Unfortunately for you Mark 7 armour was in use by the Siege of Terra. The old Index Astartes articles pre-novel series retcons even show some _pre-heresy_ Legions using mark 7.
@@joshwenn989 Not sure how that's unfortunate for me. If you want MK7 in your great crusade army that's up to you, GW canon doesn't really count for much these days anyway
I use my 40k bikes and raptors rhinos and tanks (pred x2, land raider, vind x2) but everything else is 30k. I have both box sets, betrayal and prospero, night haunter and a storm eagle. I also have a metal vind and a plastic one, and a metal pred, and a plastic one. plus third ed rhino. anything that old counts in my books. plus with most my army being legit i let some lazy through. Mostly to save money i don't need to waste money on night raptors or bikes i have every ed of raptors, but the 30k ones. That is the old third bat wing style to the metal ones to the plastic kits, to loyalist ones stolen. Plus bikes are third ed old for chaos they count. Anyone says other wise show me an updated model..... I can wait lol.
Thats why I stop playing 30k. Oh, you waer Mark VII Mars Pattern Lascannons? No, not allowed. And if you aks them when after the Horus Heresy they were inventet then noone can give you an answer. The same for the vehicles. When were the Mark II Mars Pattern Rhino and Mark IIb Land Raider Phobos invented.
I don't quite understand the hate for the mars pattern rhinos and Land Raiders, since it's easily justifiable both in official fluff and some light player-fluff. Mars pattern stuff *was* there in official fluff (that being said, but some effort in where it makes sense. I.e. cut down on Aquila/40k icons, try to use era specific weapons for sponsons since it's easy and affordable, etc.), and the HH rules constantly point out how "X or Y unit is an example of the multitude of X or Y type used in the heresy", meaning it's perfectly reasonable to claim "blah blah this is made from X or Y forge world. As for MK VII stuff, I'm usually against it unless you have a good reason. I'm specifically building a Terra force, so My BA have a squad of seekers in MK VII (really it's 4 MK 4, 4 MK 6, and 2 MK 7, but still), and of my 3 Fist tactical squads, 1 is completely in MK VII (sans a few MK V and VI suits), but since basically every other squad in my army is heresy mark, I'd hope most people would be fine with my legit running them as "some early suits of MK VII on terra" since I'm clearly not doing it to cut down on cost.
Yeah I had a guy get shitty about that "But that Raven Guard Army is like mkVI"..... "Yeah...are you aware of why it is called Corvus armour? That is very fluffy for 30k for a post Istvaan RG force."
What would you say if some guy up and said "hey I don't have 30k models all I have is my 40k models. Could I use Then to learn 30k with to see if I like it enough to invest in".
Sorry, i know this is 7 years old, but I hope you read this. Is this still the way old 40k minis are perceived by the 30k community, or has it changed?
I may get flak here, but 2 points. Firstly I thought weapons and vehicles were OK to use in both 30k amd 40k as it was just a variety from a different forgeworldand it was just the destruction/capture of certain forgeworlds or STC's that caused some marks of vehicles and weapons to disappear in 40k? Yes some variants won't be available, example being a land raider crusader, but for the most part so long as there are no aquillas or storm bolters then it should be OK. Same with weapons, remove the aquillas and its just another variant of a bolter. Second point I would add is context. Where are these games taking place? Is this a tournament, then yes I completely agree with 90% of what you said (see above comment), people put a lot of time and effort into their armies, and this effort should be reciprocated. However we should remember that all our figures are just tokens, we could (some have) play a completely reasonable game using bases with what it represents written on it, or card board cutouts (I mean the second edition boxset came with a card cutout for an ork dreadnought). So long as something is wysiwyg there shouldn't be too much issue in friendly games. Again I know I will get flak for this but just my views.
Unfortunately you're incorrect about the bolters. But i believe this video is for tournament play, you can do whatever you want at home or with your mates, there's no issues what people do at home, just don't expect to bring your clearly 40k army to a 30k tournament and expect everyone to be fine with it, people dedicate alot of time and effort to make sure their armies look the part and if you arrive without at least attempting to make a good effort for your army to fit in then don't expect a warm welcome
wow, this attitude makes me want to never get involved with the Horus Heresy community, and I did a full conversion HH Army before Forge World even had rules lol
@Glae Would you be ok with me using Stormcasts as Primaris spacemarines in 40k? I'm not going to do any conversion work, maybe just swap a head or 2 out, that would be ok with you right?
Im not such a snob. Bring your 40k models to a 30k game and we can get down. So long as the army is "What you see is what you get" WYSIWYG, the Rule of Cool always wins out. I dont want to see bottlecap proxies or even Age of Sigmar dragons standing in for an abstract model. Its really dumb to demand 30k only models for things that have a 40k equivilent. 30k already has a much smaller player base. Why would you want to further reduce interest from potential opponents? Also, it would seem dumb to buy a whole new 30k tactical squad to arm with bolters when you already have a 40k equivalent armed with bolters. It's like 30k players want you to prove that youre dumb enough to spend extra money on shit you already have. I have a gas-powered lawnmower, but my neighbor wants me to buy a 1970's hand-powered lawnmower like his to prove im good enough to cut my lawn. Silly.
skunk12 I think you’re looking at it the wrong way. It’s not about “not being good enough “, or snobbery. Let me try to put it into words that make sense to ME, because that’s the best way I can get my ideas across. There’s a group of people, who all like and are interested in one thing. There are certain parts of the thing that they like that are specific, and are a part of what makes their thing unique, and special to them. They take pride in doing the unique stuff that makes their thing special to them, and they appreciate seeing the effort that others who are also into their thing do- the time they put into it, the creativity, the backing up of ideas that made their thing “come alive” to them. And, for the most part, they are welcoming to others who want to try out their thing, and give them a chance to do so, and see if they enjoy it or would prefer something else. And this is where it divides. Some of the ones who try it will find that it doesn’t interest them as much as they thought it would. And they go off to what they know they like, or onto something else to try. And some decide, “hey, this is really cool and I want to do this too”. Once they make the decision to be a part of this established group of enthusiasts, and create their part of their world, there are certain rules that they then should try to adhere to, so as to fit in to the very specialized little group that they want to be a part of. I’m not saying that there is no room for variance- that, in fact, is what makes every person’s contribution to this world- but it’s variance within a framework of basic principles. Look at it as if ... as if it was someone who became interested in a religion. (It’s not a religion- please don’t take all this the wrong way!). Say, this person decided to learn about Judaism. They read up a bit, learned some basic stuff, the tenets, the history, yeah? And a good mate of theirs says, “hey- why don’t you come to temple with me this weekend and see if you like it, like what we do?”. So, they go- they really enjoy it, think “yeah- this is for me!”, and they learn all about what goes on, what it’s all about. And then, next weekend, and it’s time to go to temple, and halfway through the service, they leap up, tear off their clothing, and start , I don’t know, twerking or something and yelling cookie recipes. Now, that’s how they want to express their interest in this thing that other people already have established. It’s not okay with any of the other people there, it doesn’t go by the rules, etc. I don’t think that should be considered “snobbery”, or that the person “twerking" is being seen as not good enough. They aren’t putting in the expected, or shit, even accepted (!) , level of what the group as a whole, is putting in. It’s just that there is an acceptable level of effort- if you’re not interested, that’s great! Then don’t do it. But if you want to play the game with the other players, then put forth a little effort. You don’t show up to a baseball game with a tennis racket, right? And you don’t go to play football with a baseball bat (unless you’re me and you just want to beat the fuck out of some stupid jocks!). And I hope my explanation was really awful and took way too much of your time, because when I went back to read it, I can’t believe I wasted a half hour on something that nobody is gonna read.
Other than the land raider, which I think was in service in the HH this is a great video. Heresy is a modelling hobby. MODELLING hobby. Attention to detail matters so no need for those dislikes. If you don't like attention to detail then Age of Sigmar is a better fit for you.
Agree with this. All correct aside from the Land Raiders which are perfectly fine. The standard 40k plastic Mars pattern Land Raider was used in 30k. Just don't try using the Redeemer or Crusader. Same goes for rhinos / predators. The Demios pattern one is more commonly associated with 30k but the Mars pattern one from the plastic kit is also perfectly fluff-appropriate.
