A lot of FE guys are using 4.08 bores and 4.25. stroke on the FE and depending on the cam and they can make 585 hp and 545 ft lbs NA on 93 octane. Safety, and with Trick Flow heads and good quench and some of the tricks you have taught us. Those numbers were with less than 10:1, imagine tightening it up and going to 11.5:1. Maybe 4.09 bore or even 4.1 if it sonics, I think 725 hp and 640 ft lbs on 93. This is on an FE. With a tall deck, a 6.8 or even 6.9 rods can fit. People say that rod length doesn’t matter, but I want as long as I can get for light weight pistons. This is a great street/ strip combination. I wish I could build a 427 at 425x 3.78 engine. But the strokers are strong and they have years running them. Barry Rabotnik brought the concept to the FE community and we found that we had the perfect cores for this geometry. I have built 4.096x 3.784 that is right at 400 with 6.85 rods light pistons and.650 lift 256@.050 flat tappet when they would live, and put it in a 66 Mustang with the front cut up, and it would wheelie and do 9000 rpm’s using a 360 truck block which the 3 point reinforcement and cross bolt mains on 2 and 4 and well balanced. He ran that engine that hard and never broke it. He sold it to a guy when he retired the car, and they built a stroker, less hp because rpm dropped to 6200 and a bunch more torque. So I can say that what you’re saying is absolutely true, whether Windsor, FE, or 385s. Budget how much can you spend and what kind of use do you plan for it. To hear an FE at 9000 like an old Tbolt, or a 511 stroker at 6800 you hair stands on end!
That stuff is gold now! Do you really want to risk scrambling vintage parts when you can just buy a Dart Windsor block and make more power! You can build a reasonably priced 408 that will make big numbers, and if it breaks, just make a call? We're talking 40, 50 year old engines here! I'm 63! The restoration value vs. the actual performance doesn't add up! But, it's yours!
@@markmccarty9793 I can’t disagree from an economic standpoint, but a 4.125bore 4 inch FE is possible with many 70s 360/390 blocks and they used premium iron for them in order to be used only in trucks pulling trailers. They weigh 20-25 lbs more than a block in 60s 390s. They weigh the same as a Super CobraJet block. I have a trove of them in the shed that have been seasoned for 20 years. The have the same triple web reinforced mains. Also I have a pair of aluminum cross bolted main caps and ARP main studs for all 5 mains. The two aluminum ones are for 2 and 4 on each side of the thrust main with oiling passages you can feed the crank oil in the middle of the crank and at 2 and 4 at high rpm those two are most likely to crack, and feeds in the center fully send oil to the front and rear along with the cam oil to the mains like a SBC always has. I have a deep Canton pan and a 3/4 inch pickup tube. I also have a set of heads and intake to provide 1.6 hp per ci from the 427 and the same torque, about 1.5 per cube in a wide range on 93 octane. Good old nasty FE goodness with a roller cam, solid of course. And a nice fill to the top of the core plugs. I d rather use up what I have than start over. The crank is good Ford CJ iron well seasoned and cut down to 2.2 rods for BBC 6.7 Molmar forged steel. 4 inches. That’s 1.67 R/S and 10.6:1. 7500 rpm safe 4.125 flat tops with metric rings. I want the whole assembly to turn at 15 ft lbs with the plug s out, and my standard 25 psig at 1050 idle and 80 at 7500. Never heard of aluminum cross bolted oil feeding main caps? They run right off the filter mount and I have a cast iron 3 cap saddle that fits those studs if I want 8000. All I need are pistons and rods. I know a guy…..lol. 684 hp and 642 ft lbs on pump gas. At 63 I have all I need for this lifetime. But all the best to everyone, we are all Ford guys, 👍⚛️☮️
@@Bbbbad724FEs forever! I’ve built everything from 333-428. NOTHING sounds like an FE @ 7500+! I remember the first one I heard @ the strip. It sounded like a thunderstorm among a sea of chevies. It smoked them all!
Awesome Ben keep this going its so much different now with RU-vid. I'm 53 and in Australia. When I started fooling with engines back in the eighties information like this was impossible to find. Great too see many experienced guys like you passing on things you have learned.
Wow, with that length rod in 9.5 deck with that stroke I would of thought that wristpin would of been higher up the piston! That thing is an animal, wish I could afford to build one, that thing could take a lot of cylinder head and cam, huge power naturally aspirated! Great build man!
You only need an inch from the combustion surface to the center of the wrist pin bore, anything over that can and should be added to the rod length (2/3) and the stroke (1/3) until you can't get the rods to clear the cam, than stop adding stroke.
R & D is essential for knowledge of HP they said it couldn't be done if you did it anyways you know for a fact now the success It can bring......good stuff
Fantastic video Ben. You have such a wealth of knowledge, explaining practical applications, and using common sense to share your experiences with us. Love your videos and hope you continue to have more content in the future.
That is crazy with the 440ci Windsor was it really expensive to build as that had to have been a special built stroker kit I would think. I could listen to you talk about this stuff all day as you keep it very interesting
Thank you Ben For your information, I have a 57 Ford se Dan some day. I would like to put A351 in. It was a good aftermarket block I would probably have to get some advice from you and what I should go about building. This cause a car weighs about 33 3400 pounds. Thank you again for your input.
Love the channel!!! Just finished 438w used your info on heads and piston rings dyno results 597hp@6k 574tork@5100 going in 66 stang 5speed killer thank u
Ben, wished I found you before I did my 332 (302 based 30 over 3.25” stroke) 10:1 compression, blueprint aluminum heads 190 runner, 60cc chamber, flow 250 @ .500 lift, smallish cam doesn’t bleed too much cylinder pressure off, comp xe266hr12, dual plane on 1” open spacer 600 vac sec carb, warm engine cranking compression is 165 @ 4900’. It works pretty good, but again my first build. Thanks for great content
@@benalamedaracing2765 yes, because of my elevation at almost 5000 feet above sea level i jetted fat, so when I drive down to the area in Los Angeles where my kids live I’m just right/not lean and notice considerable power gains.
@@WesternReloader, i suggest that you install one of them MSD "dial switch" ignition boxes and just turn it advance 3-4 degrees when you go to Palmdale or Big Bear! Then dial it down when you go downtown and it is as simple as turning the dial instead of placing the timing light and messing with the distributor!
Thank u Ben so cool! Wish u were my neighbor you are scholar & gentleman finished 438w dyno results peak hp 598@6k peak tork 574 @ 5100 street fighter 66stang 5speed 3.89 buttgears what do u thank? Thanks again for your knowledge.
My 332 has a 3.25 stroke, and 5.5" h-beam rods in it, so the r/s ratio is the same as a stock 302(1.69) in order to do that, I run custom JE pistons with free floating pin, and oil ring support plug, I have ZERO oil consumption, so JE's system is working good.
Just started following you Ben. Have a 351C 4V ported heads, etc. Stock bore that is not wore out, and want to build a much better C than I had in the mid 80's. Windsor block (clevor) big arm? forged pistons, stock cr., or low boost turbo on stock C. really got me goin on this one. 3000 lb. car street.
Excellent content. I've been following you for a while via Facebook. Could you elaborate on how to properly clearance a 351. Do you have information on where to get those pistons or is there a off the shelf variant. You are a very important part of our racing community. Thanks so much. Keep up the great content.
Brandon, thanks for your support and appreciate it much. To clearance I install the crank and rotate with one rod/piston without rings and mark where it gets close to the cylinder wall to the rod bolts! This will give you the exact location where you will have to cut to clear. After clean it up with a sand roll so there will be no sharp edges to damage the piston skirts. There are numerous 408 and other 4.100 and 4.170 pistons out there except this big 4.250 crank there are very few pistons available if at all any. I am sure Ross and JE can make you custom to your specification.
They are getting harder to find thru my sources and are you running an SVO or Cleveland mains or is it a Windsor 3" mains? It depends what you are searching for I can probably find them! It is not a custom billet but production run forgings. Obtw, thanks for supporting my channel!
Great info Ben , really considering changes to my long block. Currently 4.170 and 4.030 with AFR 205 and .612 lift hyrdaulic roller cam and Edelbrock Pro-Flo 4 EFI, At 3200 lbs and 3.73 rear gear best at 11.27 at 122mph through TKO600 5 speed. My heads at 60cc and about 22cc dish piston , I think I need way more compression and cam. I want low 10's so cage won''t be an issue , just a basic 8 point at this time.
Patrick, it does seem you might need a little bit more compression and cam! I ran much smaller lift and car went 10.60's weight at about 3000# wt driver in a true street car thru the mufflers. You can easily do this or perhaps faster if you did those changes. .
@@ferdinandcuevas8457 it has done an OK job , just limited on real custom tuning as you don't get to see fuel or timing tables like a Holley or FuelTech setup. Very simple to setup though , and car runs well.
If you use standard tension there will be no issue! I remember when this opinion got started. I was involve with CHP at the time and they eventually bought my racecar to use as their project vehicle. A competition shop breaking in the emerging Ford market first made that statement and it spread like wildfire!!! He was not entirely right because he made an absolute statement without clarifying that low tension oil control rings with the spacer can get a little tricky when not applied correctly. I had no issues with them on the pin even on the streets.
I called Air flow research (AFR) as well as summit they both recommend the 170cc head's and the 185cc head's 64cc combustion chamber if I am putting turbo's on my 408 Windsor stroker 11.8:1, E85 engine. 4.000 stroke 6.200 rod 11+ flat top. Everything you just explained makes me feel like I could/should use 205cc. Is there any particular reason they recommend the smaller head's that I might not understand?
They recommend the smaller heads because they are not engine builders or competition experienced in the sport or racing. With a 408 on boost i would run the 220cc and you would be happier big time! If you can use a 6.250 rod the better if possible.
Who makes the 4.250 stroke crankshaft that You are using also You mentioned that Ross made the pistions what bore size are they and do You have a P/N for them are they compatible with the TFS Twisted Wedge Head's? Any information that You can share will be greatly appreciated, Thank You and Best wishes. 🇺🇲🇵🇷🦊👍
A friend sent me this video SMS I am very impressed with your knowledge of ford racing. I have all the parts for a351 W 440 displacement. The reason I haven’t built one is because people have been telling me I need an aftermarket block, and my budget was not healthy enough for that. If you could send me the parts number or the order from Ross so I can duplicate the piston for myself
Thanks Ben for such a swift reply! I am thinking about using D.S.S SX forged pistons 4060 with a 64 cc. How much compression or what would I need to do to get 11.5 comp.
Hi Ben. I appreciate you and your great information. I was wondering about clearance to camshaft. I built a low buck 3.85 stroker and clearance to cam lobes was tight. I realize racing rods have more clearance in that area, but it's hard to believe you can fit a 4.250. does it require smaller base circle cam? How about a video showing that part, and a little info about when you'll need a special cam, who you get it from etc, or is it just that a roller cam gives it enough clearance already?
Ok thanks for the suggestion and I would mount one of my blocks with a camshaft with stock base circle diameter. It fits without any major issues. Will do this and it is an excellent suggestion!
Great videos ben ,after you've pulled the engine down with the 4.250 stroke is there alot extra side wear on the pistons because of the long stroke , im trying to decide on 4.1 , 4.170 or 4.250 for my new street strip setup
Could you say something about the Cleveland motor? A friend of mine has a Cleveland engine, but he is WAY to afraid to turbocharge it because he is convinced the block will crack at the 900 hp level he needs to achieve his goals.
351C 4 bolt factory block is still weak around the main cap webbing and I had issues with those! Now on turbocharging, as long as you are not lean or on the edge of detonation the block will easily make 900hp! Turbo is actually safe and easy on the bottom end because the boost does not come early and hard compared to superchargers or nitrous oxide which hits the bottom end early and almost instantenously on the bottom end. Turbo's comes in gradually which helps the bottom end big time! Within reasonable limits of boost plus intercooling on the streets your friend should have little concern as long as he does not overdo things.
Great video Ben. So for a street motor you prefer over square to under square for same cubic inch for rpm reasons? I am looking at doing a 5.3 Ls bored to a 5.7 and thinking about if I should stroke it to a 383. It will be my street car and will keep rear gear to a 3.70 so the stroke will be better off the line and keep cruising rpm down
Chad, agree with you and an increase in stroke is therefore an increase in displacement! You cannot go wrong and actually today's modern engines actually show more stroke than bore so they are under square with good performance!
Good question Mike! The 110 is my first ever flow bench from about 40 years ago. That said it will flow a big block head short of a Pro Stock and can still do it as long as you are able to read the inches of depression. I go very low and they give you a conversion chart using for ex. 5" and convert to 28" which is the standard most use to comparing numbers. However, flow benches are like dyno's and can give somewhat different numbers so one must be aware of what theirs is actually reading accurately. Using a 110 for ex. will give me a flow numbers of 400 @ 28, from my experience when I bring the same heads to somebody with an SF600 or bigger the numbers shows actually 10cfm more! Seen it happens with others but let me tell you this as a parting comment. Dynos flowbenches are nothing but tools and even if you have a very expensive snap on tool box as impressive as it is, a good technician with a basic craftsman might just do a much better job because they are more experienced and have the proper background. Obtw, I reflow my heads on a "better" flow bench just to cross check and the numbers looks better from what I get out of my tiny one. Here I would rather have a lesser number than a bloated one that will skew my belief that I have a better cylinder flow numbers.
Thank you for an awesome response, most of my questions on other channels are answered with a single sentence, even when I ask a couple questions. I would like to buy a flow bench and randomly see the 110 units, which are more in my budget. I have also considered the unit that runs with shop vacs and a laptop. Thank you again and I enjoy your content, my son has a 04 GT that I know he would like to hop up, but he needs a job first. I have a 69 GTO w a Ram Air 3 that I’m working on and want a bit more flow from the heads w/ out going Aluminum. Thanks again and keep up the great content.
@@mikemcnamara2943 thanks again and if you make a home made flowbench accuracy can be a secondary importance. What you must note is that it is repeatable and any changes you do can be traced back to your flowbench for posted flow increases! This way you can see an "actual" flow improvement absent of an actual number posted. Everytime that horizontal meter shows a decrease you are improving flow and when that tapers off take to someone with a good bench and have it flowed so you have your actual cfm rating. Good luck Mike!
Glad you noticed that and this is why I run a 6.250 not 6.200 or shorter or else it wants to wobble off the bottom of the cylinders. At this point anything to keep the piston pin above the bottom of the cylinder wall.
3.875 will be good specially with a 9.5 deck! I prefer at this point in time boosted or nitrous to be @ 3.75 wt a very long rod or even a 9.2 deck with the same stroke but 4.165 minimum! That would give you the best of rpms and breathing because of the bigger bore!
Seems your conclusions mimic what happened on the street. The Pontiac and Oldsmobile 4.25 stoke motors were impressive ( under valved) for stop light racing, if there was room the short stroke motors ate them up.
Hey Ben. Do the pistons maintain good stability with that much skirt sticking out of the bottom of the bore? Guys in the LS world talk about a 4 inch max stroke for piston stability unless you add sleeves.
Evan, this is why I ran a long 6.250 rod as opposed to the 6.200 or shorter used by many out there. Second, LS engines are if I am correct deck is at 9.240 which is rather short for a long stroke and you will run into the piston showing the pin on the bottom of the stroke. The windsors are 9.500 which gives me a little room but still you have to watch your rpms that it is not excessive...
What heads will this monster use. Port volume, cfm, cross section area, valve sizes, etc. Mopar guy here but if I keep watching these videos I just might switch! Mopar small block head choices are abysmal for engines this size.
I am not happy with the offering just like you right now and a friend of mine back in the day, we were running a 340 Dart which ran in the NHRA H S/A and our best intake even then was the LD340 because, the Offenhauser Port O Sonic really did not perform as expected. Not much has changed even now so I feel your your pain. However, on a good note a 360-340 can be stroked big time and for the streets will be very impressive!!!
They are mostly good and really depends on the guy doing the final tune configuration. Many I have seen need to know the basic perimeters of what engine they are working on or else it will be one wild guess after guesses hopefully without damaging the engine.
Yes it did not really have a decided advantage and the heads are top notch and an expensive piece. Sometimes like I said RPMs rule the track and it shows even on the 1/8 mile.
I prefer more stroke the better and feel the 4.170 is the best there is. That stroke is even bigger than a 454 chevy or 460 ford! But between those two the 408 is way better.
Agree and the shorter stroke with the longest rod will work the best for extreme rpms. This is why you will never find an F1 or Indy engine with a short rod running at high rpms!
Wait....... At the beginning you said the 4.170 ran over the line at 6800 and did better than the second engine. At the end of the video, you say "no doubt a shorter rod will go by the bigger stroker". Im confused as heck!!
What I am referring to with the larger stroke has an advantage when a car has some weight but is "limited" in ultimate rpm potential but possesses more torque @ lower- mid range rpms! This is why it needed more converter stall when it went to a 4.00 inch stroke. On the stroke comment it is the same. The bigger stroke has less potential "rpm" therefore limiting itself @ high rpms, also every time you have placed a larger stroke crank a shorter rod is the after effect because if you do not do this the piston pin will intersect the oil control rings this is why you see I have as I pointed out some metric ring package to allow this combination to work.
@@benalamedaracing2765 - "What I am referring to with the larger stroke has an advantage when a car has some weight but is "limited" in ultimate rpm potential but possesses more torque @ lower- mid range rpms! " ------------------------- I understand that, but, you say your 408 was faster with a 6800rpm finish line 10.20qtr than the second engine running 7800+ rpm across the traps. At the end of this video, you say Higher rpms are better?
@@mistersniffer6838, you are getting confused so it is ok let me explain again. When you are building street and race engines and move over to extreme racing engines there is a crossover point where lesser cubic engines actually produces more power where it is needed at high rpms! What I am referring to is the "street car" shifting at 6800 rpms did run low tens! However, when I destroked it and lost all the mid-range power and everything went upstairs I regeared it lower with a much higher stall converter. This produces a lot faster car and the more obvious if it was lighter. Imagine if you installed a big block inside a F1 car and went racing? It will not go anywhere but spins its tires and end up limiting its ultimate potential high rpm power! This way F1 or indy cars run "over square" engines under 2 liter or thereabouts depending on the rules) with lots of rpms but these short stroke big- bore combinations was installed in your moms station wagon it is a sitting duck! You can have the exact same engine size one with a long stroke small bore and the other big bore short stroke it will be a massacre depending on the type of chassis or race car you are trying to build. For ex. 4.125 bore x 4.00 stroke= 427cid small block 4..060 x 4.170=429 cid. Both engines similar displacement but will react very differently using the same compression and camshaft. This said, run a Yamaha Kawasaki-Honda all big bore short stroke and watch the tach against a Harley and look at their rpm range! Very different even thou they all displace over 1100-1200+ cc's. Geared differently as well...
Thank u Ben so cool! Wish u were my neighbor you are scholar & gentleman finished 438w dyno results peak hp 598@6k peak tork 574 @ 5100 street fighter 66stang 5speed 3.89 buttgears what do u thank? Thanks again for your knowledge.
Thank u Ben so cool! Wish u were my neighbor you are scholar & gentleman finished 438w dyno results peak hp 598@6k peak tork 574 @ 5100 street fighter 66stang 5speed 3.89 buttgears what do u thank? Thanks again for your knowledge.
Thank u Ben so cool! Wish u were my neighbor you are scholar & gentleman finished 438w dyno results peak hp 598@6k peak tork 574 @ 5100 street fighter 66stang 5speed 3.89 buttgears what do u thank? Thanks again for your knowledge.
Thank u Ben so cool! Wish u were my neighbor you are scholar & gentleman finished 438w dyno results peak hp 598@6k peak tork 574 @ 5100 street fighter 66stang 5speed 3.89 buttgears what do u thank? Thanks again for your knowledge.
