I can see it happening in real time my grandfathers were very lean and worked out everyday walking weightlifting around the house even farming aside from going to work there was a lot of physical labour so even in their 80's they have a very defined facial bone structure, later my father and his brothers (uncles and aunts) born in and around 40's to 60's still retain the good skeletal and skull structure but in my generation whilst we are in our prime years teens 20's and early 30's do not have the same sort of vitality or a facial robustness that our own parents have.
So this video isn’t true; if evolution was to blame, the lineage of your grandfather, including you, would habe died off in order for the less masculine genotype to survive and dominate the gene pool. Given that you’re alive, this doesn’t hold water. Thus, it’s something in our lifestyle, our nurture instead of nature, our fenotype instead of genotype. And we have the answer; it’s high linoleic acid seed oils, processed sugar, much lesser sun exposure, endocrine hormone disruptors, less social interaction and much less moderate exercise such as walking (due to a sedentary lifestyle and means of transportation) that’s causing this. This video is ridiculous and simply false.
so true my grandfather had insane jawline and chin, my father have good chin but no jawline, and i have no jawline and recessed chin and also type 2 malocclusion
Strange thing about a lot of great fighters is that they have high-pitched voices. Greatest example is Mike Tyson. He's an extreme case, but there's actually quite a few fighters like that. It's not common for strong fighters to have bassy voices, either.
@@federiconicodemi5017 Look at the giant Tyson Fury. Just a normal voice. Doesn't sound like a bloody giant. But you look at footbal and basketball players his size, they're normally bassy-voiced. And they can't fight worth a damn either. Pro-baller fights are very cringey, they fight like children.
@@Moonshinne We could make a huge list. Teofimo Lopez. Paquiao. Lomachenko. Too many. I don't watch MMA, but I believe you about Jon Jones. It's just a very real pattern. We could have a long list here in just one day!
Todays diet filled with processed foods and carbs also makes you soft,chubby and bloated in the face,even if you are not technically obese,a lot of men are just skinny fat because of bad diet and lack of exercise.
The theory is interesting but the theory that the human face was the way it was was due to constant human violence through fist fighting is odd. I highly doubt majority of conflicts were fought with punches being thrown pre "weapon era" as the hand is a very fragile structure. It's very easy to break your hand and fingers, thats why combat sport athletes have to properly wrap their fists. Crippling your hand is huge survival disadvantage. Its more believable that humans did wrestle often to settle disputes rather than out right punching each other in the face as accounts of wrestling and wrestling culture has been observed throughout history in various parts of the world more so than martial arts that involve around striking. Notably, through qualitative observation, not all combat athletes that do striking like boxing have that masculine face feature, but alot of wrestlers and mixed martial artist with a wrestling background do have these described masculine features.
you're right, the instinctive way for humans to fight is to wrestle - striking with power like in boxing isn't something people can even do well by instinct without being trained. Also literally every human culture has some form of wrestling.
Kids and young men fight (not to kill) with fists because that is always available. Our ancestors maybe did the same thing as we do in schools (speaking from experience) . It was more of 'friendly" fight that was for women or social proof and most likely it happened mostly within a same group
We can't dismiss just plain chance as a factor. There is a bird in Africa whose tail is absurdly long, and study has shown ZERO practical advantage to it. But females prefer long-tailed males so strongly that a bird with extra tail feathers GLUED on (by humans) gets much more action than he did with his original tail, and gets far less when humans trim his tail. The scientists decided the only plausible explanation was that long ago, a mutant long-tailed male and a mutant female who happened to think that was hot, hooked up and had successful offspring, and those two complimentary mutations have been reinforcing each other ever since. Maybe something similar happened with human faces. (The bird report was in a Richard Dawkins book -- Selfish Gene, or maybe Greatest Show on Earth.)
Well, why did you skip over testosterone? This is a change that happens only within a few decades, which is why most men in the 50s and before had bigger cheek bones and higher testosterone. I don't remember how much more they had, but on average I think it was around 20% more than today.
Declining Testosterone levels is a new phenomena. The reasons given in the video go back thousands of years to the agricultural revolution and beyond. Maybe in a future video in this series!
Testosterone has nothing to do with size of cheekbones. It’s mainly genetics.. you have no control whether your cheekbones are gonna be large or small, prominent or recessed.
Something I like to point out is I think the recent decline in men’s facial robustness has a lot less to do with evolution and a lot more to do with being increasingly sedentary. Which is a recent phenomenon likely men will evolve to be less robust from here rapidly. Men’s face still maintain a high degree of masculine facial structure the kind that can deflect such blows but it is has decreased over time. A lot of men are becoming softer instead more to do with a lack of movement in developing years.
Two thoughts: 1. I prefer this style of editing over the one with images that slightly move, as if floating on water, over a background. 2. Do we have actual proof that facial features are becoming softer and more androgynous compared to humans, say, 2000 years ago? I’d be inclined to believe, based on previous content from this channel, that faces are only going to become increasingly angular, at least in the west, based on the perception of sexually dimorphic features as more attractive and thus, those bearing them are more likely to reproduce.
1. I liked the new editing too 2. It's established that faces change based on hormones and diet. In that context, faces today would look different from faces from even 100 years ago as we don't eat the same foods. That along with the fact that the hormone levels for men and women in the west are divergent from normal levels in the past, are good indicators that faces may be losing robustness.
Look at all the ugly people that squeeze out one breedling after other. Most procreating people don't look appealing. And all the childfree couples are hot.
@@wwalt2819 Testosterone has decreased DRAMATICALLY in the last 100 years while estrogen levels haven't changed that much. Men are only getting more feminized.
I noticed that people no longer looked like adults ever since 2010. When kids graduated high school back then, they looked like adults. That's no longer the case now. Maybe due to lower test from lack of competition in society and microplastics?
It's actually not testosterone but growth hormone that makes people "look older". If you've seen that video about it, you have to understand that every single feature we attribute with "looking like an adult" is actually caused not by testosterone but by GH. You can validate this based on the fact that as people grow older, their GH production increases, and one of the aspects of looking "older" is that you will see upper maxillary protrusion, it's something most people unconsciously don't see but associate with "older age", take for example David Bowie when he was young, versus the period of time right before his death. His upper maxilla had expanded significantly since his younger years. As we all know testosterone declines as we get older and testosterone is the highest when we are young. That phenomena has nothing to do with lack of competition or microplastics and is probably an epigenetic delineation due to the lessened requirement for brute force labor. If your father and your grandfather and your great grandfather all were required to engage in common and persistent brute force labor, they are more likely to imbue a trait of higher growth hormone secretion to increase the strength of bones and connective tissue versus not. In general society is delinating away from requiring brute force labor from an epigenetic standpoint thus young people inherit genes that make them look younger for longer, not necessarily a bad thing.
And if you don't believe me, look up that video of that girl who "transitioned" to a male only to look like a pudgy faced boy who lost all their hair. Testosterone does have some virilizing effects on bone, but nothing compared to the effect of growth hormone.
@@mysteriousfleas GH decreases, not increasing as we get older. It drops sharply from 25+. It is as it peak during puberty, thats why we grow. Growth hormone, along with all the other hormones.
How old are you? Cause that always happens when you see older generations as high schoolers. They look older… it’s because they kept the same old fashioned looks
It’s simply maturity. Adults become mature at older ages these days, versus taking on an adult role at age 21 back then. “Adults” are able to be kids for much longer these days.
Simon did a great job in this video, 😊 it does make sense the fact that we modernised, is a good reason why we are so soft, but I don't think women (in the past) perpusly choice for softer men? But rather the society that we made through (arranged marriage) is most likely to be the reason for it?
@@Hashashin_420 true, I didn't think of that, I thought it was (arranged marriage) as in this, typically women don't get to choice the "perfect" one, and the men that would topically not be chosen for marriage, would be married
Both my parents looked more grown for their age in their teens and same for me and my brother but most people my age and younger (im 25) definitely have softer looking features and often look more kid like, rather than my parents generation and before that where 18 year olds looked like adults.
He makes valid points but society’s epidemic of estrogen dominance and testosterone deficiency in males has a great effect in how they look (due to soy, xenoestrogens, micro plastics, etc.) Men probably have more facial fat from that more than aw anything else.
You should make a video about how growing a beard played a role among men when it came to sexual selection and leading positions. It can be told when it comes to Paleolithic times and also during the history of various civilizations, like for example Greeks and Persians.
Beards were basically the default for a long time because specific levels of personal grooming was for the upper castes of the most advanced civilizations of their time.
Does your jaw size effect balance of your upper face? Is it better for someone with a big forehead to have a longer jaw, or an ideal jaw size is always the better option?
orthognathic surgery. Get corrective surgery and don't listen to petty haters who tell you that you shouldn't, in the not too distant future all human beings will be "designer" human beings and chads will be engineered like WH40k space marines, and not genetically inherited.
A lot of the examples given, including Clooney, are just examples of higher body fat. Is it actually shown that facial robustness is going down? Someone with lower body fat is going to look like they can fight better than someone with a softer face from high BF. Excluding the chain smoker thin. Further, for Caucasian men a larger nose is more sexually dimorphic, but are easily broken in fights because of the amount of projection. I would take the hypothesis with a grain of salt at this point.
I fully disagree. I've seen the VERY convincing evidence that our diet, and the "chewing hypothesis" is the accurate reason (at least in large part), especially among children. There's a doctor in England who helps children and many adults completely reverse this "soft" facial effect. There are muscles and cranial seams all throughout our skull and jaw. With specific exercises, stem cells located in those seams naturally create wider mandable muscles/bones, EVEN in adults. There are now many young men & women who have successfully practiced "mewing" & nightly mouth taping as some small examples. Please, research it. It's amazing. There is very solid evidence that our soft, westernized food is 100% the problem.
@@QOVESStudio Since this is my chance to ping you in a message, I really want to know: I am right now almost 16. I have started working out and optimizing testosterone levels. Will my face be more angular, or is it too late. I appreciate it.
I've researched and, visit all the other Pills: blue, red, black and, even fem-cel. Trust me Qoves Studio is the emotionally healthiest pill of them all.
@@333angeleyes I don't think you can really run out of ideas for these topics, so it's just more weird that they are now pushing the podcast. I just think it was a side project that was less important, but it's weird that they are pushing it more now.
Given the weakness of the proposed selection pressures, have there been enough generations to achieve the observed degree of change? I have some doubt.
You should've used ancient weapons as example for how human violence changed. Guns and swords are way too current for it to have mattered in any way. Crude weapons made from stone would be a better representation.
IDK what Henry Cavill, Michael B Jordan, Hugh Jackman, Michael Fassbender, Takeshi Kaneshiro, Russel Crow, Denzel Washington, and Giulio Berruti have in common but I like whatever they have. I’m not into Jared Leto, Chris Pratt, Jesse Williams, Jake Gyllenhaal, Taye Diggs, Mark Wahlberg, Zac Efron, and Ian Somerhalder, Javier Bardem, William Levy and Channing Tatum.
@@AB-sm1qf I know what is in common (had to google half of the them) the former you list have kind eyes and smiles. Like if they saw a cute puppy, they would smile. They also seem to be playful and friendly. The second group are mostly blokes who would have fit "bad boy" roles or look like they are trying to be stereotypically manly. Some of those guys' smiles tend to be more like smirks.
Would you analyze the attractiveness of Elvis Presley? It's a compelling face and I argue is attractive for the balance of masculine and feminine features, perhaps with a tilt towards the feminine. I can't put my finger on it but it's one of those contradictory yet compelling faces. It violates what we think of as masculine yet it is mesmerizing, perhaps because of the violation.
I wonder how all of these different theories apply to east asians. Sexual dimorphism is a lot less in east asians compared to other races. Why is it that way? Culture? Climate? And why do they age slower compared to other races?
It may be that beauty standards in some East Asian populations have become more androgynous in recent years; but to think that East Asians do not exhibit sexual dimorphism is just baseless.
@@nikhilajith8880that part. People just accept conclusions on this matter to be true. It’s all about from the perspective of European features. Even white women have stronger brows and chins than many black men but we never say Africans aren’t dimorphic. These are just tropes we’re attributing to people based on our bias.
Well i guess that the biggest contributor may be decrease in testosteron levels. Currently on average is 50% lower than in 70s. Testosteron implies manly body vitality sharpness of mind ambiton enthusiasm and much more
also the theory is wrong look at Andrew tate guy is a world Class fighter and looks like Gollum. Henry Cavill never fought anyone in his life yet looks like the Lord of Bone City
- Andrew Tate isn't a fighter, he's an athlete. He performs within the parameters of a formalized discipline, how much that translates to the parameters of bute force combat in our ancestors is highly debatable. - Henry Cavill never fought anyone because that wasn't his job. It's not about whether _he fights_, it's about _whether his face communicates that it can take a beating_ in the context of ancestral brawling. It may very well be that had Cavill chosen a career in MMA, he could have been more successful than Andrew Tate. We just never know. - Andrew Tate doesn't need a face that can take a beating, his strengths just need to outweigh his weaknesses within the context of a kickboxing or MMA match. - A single outlier doesn't disprove the correlation. Statistics is about large quantities of data, not a single observation
In retrospect, I've seen old photos where the males don't really have sharper features when compared to modern males. I think this whole thing boils down to types of nutrition, change of habits, and of course environment/genetics.
But....there is also the issue of inflammation and puffiness regarding the processed foods ingested Just saying.👀 PS the dude from Korea loves his cheese.
I'm almost 100% sure it has a lot more to do with diet & dental facial growth than "evolution". Plus, is it even evolution if a species becoming weaker at survival? Shouldn't that be called devolution? Anyway, I say this because I know men in my life who's diet consisted of pizza, rice and other soft foods the majority of their childhood, thus they now have extremely soft bone structure. I on the other hand, had severe bruxism since childhood, where I grind my teeth so hard I wore down my joints. My jaw became extremely angular as a result, to a point where I needed corrective surgery, and botox to weakened the biting muscles around my face so I wouldn't grind so hard. I have been insecure my whole life about my more "robust" face as a female, but with the help of proper dental care, it's been softened. Also, if you search up "mewing", there's so much scientific evidence of the drastic difference your diet and tongue placement does to your face. Our generation is not evolving, it's devolving, and we can't even place our tongues at the right position.
Its 100% western diet consisting of soft foods which leads to worse facial bone development which leads to worse breathing habits and that causes most of the dental problems that people face, it is extremely common nowadays that people get their wisdom teeth removed simply because of the fact that their jaw isnt developed enough to make space for it, i ate alot of hard foods luckily and used to chew the bones of certain meats i ate when i was a teen and my jaw is extremely defined and sharp with a long ramus, this video underestimates the negative effects of our diet because at 25 the majority of people around my age have softer looking faces and look younger while i dont, people always assumed i was older than my actual age since highschool
It's always "evolution" when a trait arises that's more likely to pass along the genes that produce that trait. The "survival" thing is circumstantial -- you can evolve into being completely helpless, if that means you produce more babies to pass along the helpless genes. Modern humans get sick when we eat uncooked food or drink naturally-occurring water, and we have no fur to keep us warm, but we're so good at breeding and keeping our kids alive that we now have traffic jams and our villages can be seen from space. "Devolution" is an arbitrary human value judgment -- "I don't like the form this species has evolved into."
Thing is cute an softer looking men are considered attractive and women with sharp features which tend to be masculine are considered to be attractive nowadays and they might even change more with the time..but we should appreciate our looks no matter what
Well. At first I was about to try service (simply curious) but the idea to be judged for 250 - 300 USD? Eh? That's way too much for self-proclaimed specialist.
GMOs Pharmaceuticals Floride there I Summed up the problem. Industrial Science has done damage to men and women. Population control and Depopulation. Thank John Rockefeller and Sigmund Freud.
To all gay guys: Out of curiosity, are u attracted to androgynous or baby faced guys? As a person who looks like this, I feel as though I have a hard time with dating or even casual hook ups. Ironically girls in my highschool and college seem to think Im cute but as a gay guy its rly hard to find someone who wants to sleep with me
I’m a small bodied gay guy with a more androgynous face, bisexual guys find me attractive, perhaps embrace the androgyny, that’s kinda what I’m doing(I’ve attracted masculine bi guys and am quite happy living that way, are 100% gay men attracted to me? Almost never) but I think you’ll find that bisexual men hav that masculinity that us gay men crave, good luck bottoms lol
I am not gay but many gay men and all of the gay men I have been friends with over the years are attracted to very masculine looking men. This is why so many gay men are so jacked.
☝️Yes, what the second commenter said. This doesn't apply to everyone but I can say that majority wise, a gay man's physical appearance is a projection of his preference. So if a gay guy is jacked and scruffy, that's what he is looking for. However, ephebophiles would probably be attracted to you, until you lose that boyish look unfortunately. So I would not even consider them as commitment material. They're very toxic and generally have no respect. But then again, there is ageism in the gay community.
@@CarterWills1 Not sure where you're getting that idea. Studies they show a downward trend around 1% every year, 22% to 25% in the last 20 years. All the evidence points toward a substantial drop in test.
Yeah the chewing food thing never really made that much sense because humans evolved off food which is all soft. But I’m not sure this hypothesis makes complete sense either because deterioration of anatomy would not happen that quickly based on evolutionary selection
What food? Humans used to chew a lot more and harder especially in winter months when fruits weren't available. They used to cure meat by drying or smoking it which would make it a lot harder to chew
chewing hard food expands the palate size and whole lower and midface size increases but it doesn't help in getting defined cheekbones and jawlines, those are a result of some kind of mechanical loading on the bones
@@natoslayer2907 no its not all genetic, just look at people who have used palate expanders and see there before and after pictures they have very significant changes that just reinforces wolffs law and bone will move and adapt on putting under mechanical stress
One of them is that, in the cave man Era we had to chew more on our food, since they were harder. So our diet is very important, right now we only consume most soft food that are made by machines ect
I like to think we all look more elevated the further we progress technologically. Sure, if the apocalypse comes we're fucked but aside from that, we are getting cuter and easier on the eyes every day. Like our dogs.
People eat a lot more junk food and sugar also. They don’t mew. They don’t exercise. Spend most time looking downwards. Which is further reasons why their faces are softer.
I really doubt that the male skull is/was optimal for taking punches (or any strike to the head): our large brain makes us more prone to get knocked out moreover without weapons we really suck. I would also question the entire premise of this video, i don't think that male skulls where more robust back then, instead i think that the growing obesity around the world makes think otherwise. However is true that on average we are getting physically weaker, this is simple due to inactivity in our age (this also leads to obesity that makes seems that our faces are getting softer), we no longer need a fit body to survive. For those that want to resolve this problem start training and eat more healthy, not only we improve physically but we live longer. Ps correct me for any grammatical error, I'm not anglophone.
I was born with a beautiful, masculine face with great contours. Im so grateful that I got these genes and didnt end up being some kind of woke beta male.
Right there with you. Helps when you take care of yourself too. Ladies love it, no matter how much they try to deny it in public w their feminist nonsense ;)
I feel like there's a bit of bias in some of the implications and conclusions being made. First off, don't use an example of somebody with strong facial lines with extra collagen/adipose tissue to characterize the origin and meaning of skeletal composition of the face. There's a very clear difference between having a "softer" appearance due to hormones that affect the soft tissue and perhaps hormones and gene expression that influences the development of skeletal facial composition. This is not a new finding, I'll bet there's also facial composition correlation to the sociopath/criminal gene MAOA-L, a lot of this is epigenetics. The interesting thing is we're now on the cusp of gene editing and that means that such forms of gene expression will in the future no longer be the result of a genetic tyranny through behavior, more one of voluntary choice. Truly a master race of human beings can gene-edit their children to have whatever sort of biological development they desire and to edit out genetic vulnerabilities and maladaptive traits.
Interesting study, but I still think a hard diet does play a role, at least a minor one, in facial robisticity. You don’t need to look at skulls over the course of human history: just humans skulls now compared to the early 1900s. By 1900, we had better weapons like guns and swords, but facial robusticity was still high in men on average. Rising poor dentofacial growth among people, especially men, coincides with diets become more processed. Also, the body of scientific literature thus covered on the channel about the role of diet shouldn’t be thrown out when only one study suggests it plays no role. Two things can be true at once. Facial robusticity could have been a function of both fighting ability AND diet.
@@KamuSaladi you would have to start a vegan diet of mush as a child For example carrots are given to children for this reason and they are vegan... There are also 0 studies that show a causation(!) between soy and testosterone.
@@KamuSaladi soy has absolutely no effect on testosterone in humans. this belief was spread from a study done on SHEEP. when done on humans, however, there was no effect found. you're safe to consume soy
Natives were hunter gatherers not too long ago and yet some of their faces(men) are too soft today. Diet is the reason. They ate corn, nuts, and other hard plants which aided in making their faces more robust as well as some meat. In mesoamerica the Mexica people used to chew gum a lot (some men but mostly women) as well which made their faces seem more developed. We are just not chewing enough hard foods anymore. Some native native tribe, not sure which one or where it was practiced, but they always made sure their babies were nose breathing in their sleep(mewing?) so often they would close their babies mouths in their sleep.
I generally really like your videos, you have a lot of great data. In this area you seem to be unaware that it is all nutrition related why men have low testosterone and therefore underdeveloped bodies and it's the same thing with obesity. The same is true for women, the whole malnutrition of our society has caused men and women to lose their secondary sex characteristics, that is the thing that used to define adult males and females. The problem is people are eating too many carbs, processed foods and seed oils and not enough of the building blocks of nutrition which are animal foods; meat and animal fat. There are a slew of reasons for this, but suffice it to say you could start with reading Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price. I believe you have used some of the photos from his book. You may have found the photos on the internet, not knowing about his work. Anyway, a lot of people are eating a Carnivore Diet to help with some of the damage done by high carb diets. There are many doctors on youtube who are advocates for a Carnivore Diet, I can think of at least 20 of them. You may want to check some of them out. Dr. Robert Kiltz, Dr. Ken Berry, Dr. Anthony Chaffee, Dr. Shawn Baker, and Dr. Paul Saladino to name a few.
I wouldn't recommend people the carnivore diet due to saturated fats alone and the digestive problems it gives same as high carb foods, it's better and more delicious to simply eat natural food with lots of vegetables and less processed foods
Ancient people didn't survive on fruit. If so, they would've starved to death. Fruit doen't grow in most places, unless cultivated by man. Furthermore, for much of man's history, there was an ice age. The reason men look softer, is because they're fatter.
I think punching is an accident of instincts. As a former tree-dweller, your instinct is to grip when in danger (so you don't fall out of the tree). Even babies grip instinctively. So under stress in a fight, you grip. Then you swing, because you don't know any better, and you've invented punching. Better still is to hold a rock. I was taught long ago "hands are not meant to BE weapons, they're meant to HOLD weapons." After generations of smacking each other with rocks, our impulse to swing clenched hands is only amplified.
When the paper says that weapons caused the decrease in facial robustness in modern humans, are they mostly talking about early weapons like spears, atlatls etc, or later weapons like bows and metal swords (or is the timescale for those too short).
To be frank, I've heard things so wildly different about ancient violence to take your video at face value, as well produced as it is. For example, anyone who boxes will tell you that a good punch is by no means an intuitive motion, and is learned with a lot of effort and persistence. I've heard that ancient humans would have most likely wrestled each other when it came to violence. I've heard that old time boxers, when it was still a bare knuckle thing, would tend to avoid the face, because it is more likely to break your bare hands on someone's face than to break their face with your hands, a fact which shaped their funny stance by today's standards. I would also like to know more about that statistic about violence in modern society. I doubt that study was about violence all over the world with untrained people. I'm pretty sure most violence involved some kind of weapon.
Hand-held rock. Safe for hands, dangerous for faces, easy for primitive men to think of. Even an otter knows to hit a clam with a rock to break it open.
