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@@mhughes1160 bullet weight, diameter, and velocity are identical on paper, or at least very near identical..... I just want to see how they do against each other
Why are you still not listing the bullet weight and load of the rounds in these tests? Without those key pieces of information, these tests are meaningless and useless.
When you strike a knot another shot should be taken, the knot is much harder and will drastically effect the bullet. When using sand, place a piece of cardboard at the 2” and 4” mark which will give an indication of which penetrated further giving better data.
@@petesheppard1709 i was using a 2x4 as a target for my .22 with subsonics loaded, one round hit a knot and shattered into pieces while only putting a small dent in the wood. was impressive. normally, the subsonics fly straight through the 2 inches of wood like its butter.
It absolutely would. I dont think ive ever seen a pistol round go through the sandbox. Even if a round didnt go through a certain depth of clay you would be able to see the energy dump in it.
@@ap1s2k78 Yeah double tap has some wild rounds my 10mm loads from them (granted still pretty similar to.40) I think my 135g 10mm from them is 1600 fps. But the LCD 60g 2400 fps rounds are nasty.
He chronographed the round he was using at the end, those 10mm rounds are definitely within 10mm spec with 180 grains hitting 1240fps avg putting out 616ft/lbs which is about what you’d get from standard underwood 10mm. Only their exotic line is packing more punch.
10mm & 5.7x28 are the calibers that suffer most from "pudloading". A lot of the factory ammo is just painfully underloaded. Luckily, there are some high quality boutique rounds Buffalo Bore & Underwood (10mm), Vanguard & Elite Ammunition (5.7x28) or some good ole self rolls to solve that issue.
@@RNG-999 Yea I've shot some Double Tap 10mm & recently some weird 9mm. It's 165 total grains, with like a 115 Grain JHP & a 50 grain disk behind it. It was too weird not to try.
That's crap my man, they load them like that because that's what people buy..... because all the .45 and 10mm fan boys just like telling everyone they carry them bigger calibers and not actually shooting 750 foot pound loads out of a handgun. Yes .45 and 10 mm can be more powerful but the factory loads don't lie, people are actually buying loads that are below 9mm +p Buffalo bore has the spiciest of spicy loads but it's a small market.
@whatsmolly5741 I'm afraid you have no idea what you're talking about. People buy it because it's all they can afford, or because they simply don't know any better. Nobody buys a 10mm to shoot .40.
the clarity of your ballistics gel is getting more and more impressive! not sure why others do not appreciate the sandbox test, that's some legit testing methodology. its why the military uses sandbags, that stuff stops bullets hardcore.
For pistol rounds, I think the sand test should be dropped. We know 6-inches of sand will stop common pistol rounds. Rifle rounds are the only ones to stand a chance.
@@RNG-999stuff is still expensive, it being clearer showcases he’s either better able to maintain the supply of fresh gel for these vids or has gotten better at recycling used blocks and still having them be fairly clear. Could even be mixing and moulding them himself.
@@md_vandenberg his video on the .44spl and .44mag showed that (one or both?) of those went through the sandbox. but yeah, common semi-auto handgun calibers 6" sand sand will stop
.357 sig isn't even near the same power as the .357 mag or 10mm.... It genuinely irritates me when people compare it. It's like same power as .45ACP +P
A little unheard of to see someone walk away from one hit of 10mm like with 2 or three hits of the 9mm. The only thing that matters the most is penetration. Stopped bullets in their terminal ballistic stage is like a shitting fart vs a solid turd in your underwear when a 10mm comes to play. Oh, well can't tell some people anything & all their analysis articulates their desired outcome to keep mythical minds secure.
@@opinionsvary Caliber is the least relevant metric in penetration tests. The key relevant factors are velocity, energy, sectional density, and bullet construction.
@@opinionsvary I've heard enough interviews with people who have got shot 15 times with 45 and have shot people 30+ times with a 45 before putting them down. Its not about the rounds its about shot placement.
@@saltysaty8686 In my opinion: Take your best 9mm round against a 185gr 45 ACP +P of the same type of bullet. The human body is nothing like ballistics gel. Also 9mm really don't do well for stopping a armored vehicle operators when a bullet makes it inside the can. You may want to visit the hotel where Dillinger had a shoot out with the police & look around at all the FMJ damage the cops did. Suppose one were to have hit him in the lower abdomen or leg, it's beyond doubtful he would've escaped as he did. There was an account to where a 158gr 38 special LRN killed a uncaged bear on a rampage in a city once. Seriously doubt 9mm has what it takes but to stop women & children. 9mm is like a BB wish come true for a lot of people. If not for JHPs law enforcement wouldn't have gone that route if not for women on the force.
Ww2 US tankers, actually tied sand bags on their tanks to increase their survival against the very powerful panzers. Sand is a very good heavy bullet stopper.
They tested it during the war. It doesn't help. The added weight does cause more transmission and driveline problems though. They let the crews keep it though because it made them feel better.
You should take all the old steel plates and weld them to the protection screen you have. That way you have protection from anything coming back at you
Back when I was in the german navy I learned one complex lesson. 9x19mm is fine in a Uzi, 7.62x51 is ok in a G3 but better in a MG3 and when you want to make an impression you start with 76 (no dot!) mm and work your way up to AGM 84! I have to admit though, lightweight torpedos are hard to use on a gun range 😄
How about replacing the sandbox with some sort of clay that can show you the amount of energy on target and it can be measured by the width of the impact and the depth
I recall in the late 90's shooting into the rootball of a good sized tree that had been grubbed out with a bulldozer, range was about 50 yards and I was using my 338/06 AI shooting 200 gr speers for a fire forming load, I was able to dig the bullets out and evaluate their expansion. Clay would be a great test medium, not sure where Mr Banana man lives but clay is generally pretty easy to come up with....
Don't buy BuffaloBore, the owners are cucks. Underwood, DoubleTap, and Liberty make the best. The price of hand-loading is actually about equal to just buying from DoubleTap in-bulk.
@@anon-means-anon It's going to vary across different manuals. The manuals for years have been stepping down the actual loads for many cartridges. I use new Starline brass when I do Normal spec loads from the 80's when 10mm was 10mm.
There are many reasons that 9mm is the most popular handgun caliber in America... With modern bullets and modern loads 9mm is no slouch, Its pretty hot in +P and carries a projectile that's heavy enough to do quite a bit of damage and has enough penetration to get through light cover and still provide enough velocity to get the job done... Not to mention the size, weight, capacity, recoil, ammunition cost and availability and sheer number of options on the market that fire 9mm compared to 10mm...
@@timclaus8313 Here in Canada it is widely used for all game (moose, elk, deer, etc). Including Grizzlies. Modern ammos help too like Barnes 190grain, Buffalo bore, leverevolution and nosler.
@@heydaddy6817 Nothing wrong with any of the centerfire lever cartridges. They have range limits due to the bullet shape requirements for tube magazines, but with good bullet selection, they all perform well beyond what their paper ballistics seem to indicate.
The queen ant declares, "Your concrete spalling has ZERO effect on my relentless egg production! And, thanks to your sand box tests, I will move my chambers to 8 inches from the surface! AHAHAH HA HA!"🐜
Love the videos. The humidity reminded of growing up in St. Louis. I now live in the desert in Utah, and a couple of days ago the humidity was only 9%. I'll take the dry heat any day.
I live in Louisiana so I know humidity. But when I go to west Texas it’s about 10 degrees hotter but no humidity and it feels a lot cooler! I much prefer low humidity!
Really appreciate your content and channel. When the French invented smokeless powder in 1886 for the 8mm lebel cartridge the Germans started ballistics testing on every caliber/ bullet made and continued extensive testing up to about 1944. The Germans found that the 9mm in a pistol and a 7mm in a rifle caliber was the optimal performance for combat.
@@mediocreman2 only very weak range ammo overlaps with 357 sig. once you get to Underwood, Buffalo bore, Double tap loads, 357 sig no longer hangs. 9x25 Dillon however is different story. Monster of a round that ACTUALLY competes with full power 357 mag
It would definitely punched through that second plate. I have seen .357 Sig punch through many targets that only Underwood 10mm could get through. They scorch when loaded hot and a good projectile is used. An Extreme Penetrator is one of my favorite. Extreme Defender will work for EDC otherwise.
@@Balticblue93 it really is a decent round. The bottleneck shape would make it feed well I would imagine in a carbine or SMG…. Wonder why no one has done that yet? Maybe they have and I’m not aware or it’s something obscure. I probably buy either 😂
@@tonyromano6220High mass and relatively low kinetic energy means they wouldn’t destroy themselves going through the sand. Higher velocity may improve anti-armored personnel performance, but higher round weight improves penetration in general.
The fine particles of sand basically act like a solid version of hydro-shock. The low velocity means they don’t displace so much volume so fast they destroy themselves while their weight gives them enough momentum to keep going until they make it through.
I have no problem with the sandbox test its a kinda useless for pistol testing but am not so impatient that its a issue for me. The guy who criticises everything in the bathroom though his a good laugh👍
10mm factory loads are watered down almost to 40 cal. I Love the 10mm with hard cast loaded to spec, it may not go through the sand box but it would knock it around a bit lol. For the sand box you could try clay, dry ice, melons, meat or bone targets.
Considering most 10 mm cartridges are loaded 40 caliber capacities or less, that 10 mm is not anywhere near its maximum knockdown power. I guarantee it
@@lardomcfarty9866 I don't underload it, but realistically 9mm will never be able to keep up with 10mm - bigger bullet, more case capacity... I have loads that push a 180 gr. Speer Gold Dot to 1350 fps safely. Not bashing 9mm but it will never be 10mm.
That looks like M1152 NATO spec 9mm ammo. It's good stuff. I'd much prefer that over a 10mm due to the significantly lower recoil. I'd rather put 4 9mm on target than 2 10mm in the same amount of time. It's probably not ideal for Grizzly protection but the 9mm has successfully been used for that purpose, and hunting guides agree that something you can comfortably shoot is more important than missing with a hand cannon.
Dude... A high-powered 10mm round carries 80% more kinetic energy per shot than a 9mm, even these 9mm +P because they are just high-powered 9mm. 780 Ft-lbs vs 420 ft-lbs is 85%. Those two 10mm rounds had almost as much energy as four 9mm...
I’m a 10mm owner, have been for 34 years and though in a barricaded situation the 10mm would be the clear choice. I’d take the 9mm+p for the capacity, the damage to organs is very close so I’d prefer more rounds on target, less recoil.
@@XRakkgruntX Standard Glock 20 in 10mm is 15 rounds vs 17 rounds for a Glock 17. If that difference in capacity comes into play, you have bigger issues to deal with.
@@XRakkgruntX Here's my reason for 10mm: There are people out there with overactive adrenaline glands or who are hopped up on d_ru-gs. They don't know they've been un-lived, and can keep coming at you for a few seconds. Best to have impact energy. I'd go for .44 mag but I'm afraid that some DA would start calling me Dirty Harry to sway the jury in a self-defense prosecution.
Funny enough .45+P hits about as hard as base 10mm here. (185@1200) Also missing the proper 10mm loading.. The magic is and has always been the holy 200@1200.
My 10mm loads are 180g hollow point and about 700-750ft lbs of energy. With the stiffer spring in my glock it really roars and shows the truth of 10mm in its original spec
For all the comments on 10mm being underloaded, check out the listing from Lucky Gunner. He has a full length data sheet on every 10mm offering that he's tested. You can very quickly figure out who's selling .40 cleverly disguised as 10mm and who has the full power stuff. He even has a video on the subject.
That's misinformation...the best 9mm +p+ is NOT 357sig!!! The best 9mm +p+ (safe) will propel a 124/125 grain bullet at 1300 or so fps....357sig loaded properly can easily reach 1500 fps with the same weight bullet fun facts 👍
@TransformersHoarder 9mm+p++++ will likely blow your gun up and maybe take parts of your hand with it...if you feel the need to add that many pluses....maybe it's smarter to get a more powerful gun??? 🤔
+P+ 9mm vs something would be really cool to see the results. I use +p+ in my AR9 and have always been interested in seeing it's performance vs another PCC caliber.
Chasing your tail trying to compete with properly loaded 10mm. I know, done these experiments myself with custom hand loaded ammo. I tossed in .357 Sig into the mix as well, that's one caliber a lot of people sleep on if they want a real deal +P+ "9mm".
I also enjoy the first few years of the KZ650, but your list had a lot of great bikes. I lean more towards the 1980s, Ninja 900, 600, FZ600, Seca 550, 500 Interceptor, etc. More "modern classics" than vintage.
Just started the video- maxxed out 9mm will never beat properly loaded 10mm. You can cherry pick a 9mm load to beat a watered down 10mm that is nothing more than a .40s&w in disguise (powerwise), but then that's not a fair comparison. Factory 9mm from a 5" barrel maxxes out in the 500ft-lbs range of energy, while 10mm comes in at 800ft-lbs. Most of us know this...
Here is a pressure equation for the bore pressures. .7854xdia2/PSI. .7854 is a quarter inch of PI. It's interesting that you increase the bore and your efficiencies go up per powder weight. But if you go over bore and efficiency goes down. So you see an interesting spectrum of space and how there is no replacement for displacement. Capacitance, reflectance and phase make space or .7854.
No one doubts a 10mm has more stopping power. But, 1) Your accuracy will drop, and hits matter more than noise. 2) It's well over $1 per round for a decent 10mm which limits practice. 3) It's a far less common round, so good luck when supply dwindles or society breaks down.
"It's a far less common round," I hear this silly excuse all the time. The fact that there are less guns shooting it also means that the supply dwindles down slower. In the last couple of ammo shortages we saw that the first ammo to disappear from shelves were the most popular rounds. People buying uncommon guns were able to find ammo for their guns on shelves after the common calibers had already run out. The .41 magnum, 5.7x28mm, .357 SIG, etc. people were having an easier time in the early stages of the shortages than 9mm, .45 acp, 38 spl people. What this tells us is that if you cared so much about supply dwindling then you'd buy multiple guns in a variety of calibers.
When shooting metal. If you shoot right next to the edge you will get less penetration. Please make sure you shoot closer to the middle for a better result.
Try testing these out of longer barrels and I guarantee you that you will be super impressed by the performance enhancements they will both receive from a longer barrel. 9mm performs ballistically very, VERY similarly to the .357mag when shot from a 16 inch barrel but I couldn't say how a true 10mm performs out of a 16in barrel since I've not found a carbine chambered in true 10mm only 40 s&w which we all know to be 10mm short but is not quite the same performance as the 10mm. But in handguns, they both have their pros and cons. If you use a metal frame handgun over a polymer frame, you'll get far more recoil out of the 10mm but you can get equal recoil shooting a 9mm glock 19 since it's frame is shorter with less to grip and the slide is nowhere near the size of the 17 making it a bit more snappy in recoil.
Lately I have been necking 10mm brass down to 9mm (9x25 Dillon) and launching 115 grains at over 1700 fps and 90 grain Lehigh XDs at over 1800... that would be a fun one to compare.
Love the video, great style and very entertaining. Good stuff to see comparing 9 vs 10. The thing I think needs to be compared more often isn't 9 vs 10, it's 10 v .40 in typical handguns. I am not sure 10mm out of a 4.6 is getting the legs to be anything other than .40 that costs more. The difference between .40/10mm out of my Glock 40 is really significant, and ballistic data shows 10mm really picks up at 5" or longer barrels.
A coworker just told me his 10mm splits the difference between a .41 & .44 magnum 😂. I politely disagreed and had to inform him the hottest 10mm wouldn’t even better the hottest .357 magnum in energy.
Always have a 9mm main instant draw quick pocket carry to answer the attacker, and a 10mm blaster bug in a deeper belly ban or chest rig . Would rather go up the scale than down if necessary.
The 180 grain flat nose bullet in .40 S&W or 10mm gives more shock value than a pointed 9mm. The 10mm in these tests has marginally more penetration but also a larger diameter, so I think better performance overall. That sand block stops just about everything.
The 9mm shot was too the left near the edge of with support behind. The 10mm shot was center. The results were not the same. Another 9mm shot would be needed to hit more to the center to make the test valid.
The first shot hit the knot in the wood. I would recommend next time using a block with no knots to minimal if possible due to the knot being the hardest part in the block.
i think it comes down to dispersion of energy into the target. hollow 10mm is going to cause more damage than a 9mm. 10mm is designed to delete hum**s and be more controllable than .45.
Since 44 mag and 460 Rowland are often compared for power and ballistics, why not try to find out on your channel? Just a thought. I own both and they are both freaking awesome!
