After going through the Build Order for Delhi Sultanate and the Holy Roman Empire, times to take a close look to the Abbasid Dynasty! From resource gathering, to building layout, you will know everything about this unique and adaptive civilization!
Mate, explaining the rationale behind your thinking is the best i've seen! I like how you set yourself an objective, keep it flexible and take amazing decisions. By default, I would go for builds that make sense, then watch a stream and blindly copy what they are doing. You've allowed me to think and not copy. For this, thank you so much!
I like how the game added in the fact that real camels are good vs Calvary. Historically from Persia, camels were used against Roman Calvary to scare the horses that have never seen them before!
@@Dualities I remember playing a couple games against Grubby in Heroes of the Storm back when it just got out of beta. He was actually good aswell at MOBA ! I guess with enough experience, especially at high level, you get to know how to quickly learn a new game and identify key mechanics.
@@Kaldorey There's definitely being a mechanically skilled gamer, being a good "gamer" who can analyze the key mechanics of any new game, and skilled RTS players. Lots of overlap but definitely multiple skills.
Hey Grubby been watching your content off and on, I always thought your content has superb quality yet I come back now and its even better. love your work
Love that Grubby is playing AoE4 too, I can't wait for Grubby to play this professionally Maybe one day they'll make mod for an Orc race xD Hope with the success of AoE4, golden era of RTS will be back. And we'll have a lot more great RTS games
lol thanks for this Mr Grubbs, been following you since HOTS days (still sad to see it die out like it did) but was looking for a little abbasid building order! you the man bro
Grubby amazing build orders mate, in-depth explanations are so easy to grasp and dense at the same time! Looking forward for more in the future, keep it up :)
I figured a new sub 5 minute 2 TC Boom as Abbasid now with the new patch. Imo we have to go berries now with the gather rate a bit faster than deer. Also if someone harrases your berries you can retreat to the sheep. This is the vid I followed to the letter till now great calculations
I know it is common in the competitive RTS scene but good lord very little is more annoying than the APM spam clicking literally nothing 27 times between each action.
i would love this kind of video for all civs. like a standard build order with discussion about different options to take it (if it works that way for other civs) also sometimes you mix up saying "food" and "wood" which can be confusing. thanks for the vid!
I love the AoE4 content! The thought process explanation is top tier! What's the decision tree for the House of Wisdom wings? Always go Economy first? What about for castle age?
Hey Grubby, I think your build would be better served by going culture wing. The preservation of wisdom upgrade gives -30% off all tech which buying those economic upgrades would have a faster payout in the short term for the mid-game play you're going for with a 2nd tc. Let's say your goal is 75 workers total in the entire game and you researched Foodstuff at the 27 pop cap like in your video, so 50 workers at a 25 food discount is 1250 food saved over the entire game. The rate of production doesn't increase with cheaper villagers, but economic upgrades with 15% increase in food production do immediately (and all other resources) and will beat the rate of 25 food saved every 30 seconds in the short term, which is only 333 food/min to already be a faster rate, i.e. 12 workers on sheep. Getting all the (reasonable) economic and military upgrades will save you 370 gold by the end of feudal age and roughly 900 gold by the end of castle age (just initial cost, not including how much the 30% increased production rates would generate by then), which is about when your 2nd tc has translated into a military advantage.
This doesn't really take into account the fact that foodstuffs gives an immediate boost, like getting 2 free villagers instantly (for each producing TC). The tech upgrade requires purchasing a tech with no immediate bonus, and requires then investing another ~500 resources, just to have a similar benefit. Not to mention you should be getting foodstuffs AND the eco upgrades. On one TC, foodstuffs = free eco upgrade after 2 minutes. Two TC's, 1 minute. Also, foodstuffs is more versatile in that you can spend those extra resources elsewhere if the need arises(units/buildings/not just techs), plus you still retain an eco boost. The nail in the coffin, though, I think is the Tier 3 bonuses for the wings. 15% farm boost easily beats keep heal aura, which lets you go eco/mil or eco/trade (for team games.)
@@ahall9839 Thanks for the feedback. They are free villagers, but a 2nd tc and the techs are inherent to both our strategies. You're talking about prioritizing food over gold (+ a good amount of the other resources saved during initial upgrade costs too). The math would say saving 50 food per minute per tc is balanced by the reduced tech costs alone, but getting those increased production earlier is the kicker. 15% now is better than 15% later
@@Norcalxx I think you misunderstood a few points. I only mentioned the TC because foodstuffs' benefit increases with each one. I think even on one TC foodstuffs is better (just because of it's immediate bonus and versatility), but on two or three it's no contest. "15% now is better than 15% later" Right, and 2 TC foodstuffs provides IMMEDIATE bonus, about equal to a 15% boost to all production at 30 villagers (30*0.15=4.5), but the culture tech requires an ADDITIONAL 525 investment which requires time to harvest, plus the time for the research to complete. "The math would say saving 50 food per minute per tc is balanced by the reduced tech costs alone" No. The 3 15% boosts cost 750 normal, 525 at the discount. You save 225 resources. With 2 TC foodstuffs, you have saved 225 resources in 1.5 minutes (25 food per 20 second villager = 75 food per minute per TC). So, unless you are buying ALL 3 upgrades within 1.5 minutes of completing the culture tech upgrade, foodstuffs would've already provided those resources WITHOUT the requirement of then spending an additional 525, JUST so you can have a similar benefit that foodstuffs was already providing. *On top of that*, after that same 1.5 minutes, the foodstuffs player has saved (just about) the resources to buy their own eco upgrade. So even IF the culture player bought ALL 3 upgrades IMMEDIATELY (which isn't possible), the foodstuffs player is still ahead, because foodstuffs is already equal to getting the first 3 eco upgrades, but now they also have 1 of their own eco upgrades on top! To summarize, the culture tech is actually NOT saving you resources or time, you're SPENDING 525 to just break even against foodstuffs. And if you go 3 TC, foodstuffs is even better. This also doesn't take into account anything that happens beyond like minutes 15-20. The culture upgrade will save you much more over the course of the game, but it just doesn't compare to foodstuffs early-mid.
@@ahall9839 The number of TC's is irrelevant. You can get the same amount of TC's with culture wing. Foodstuffs gives you: 50 extra food per minute per TC. 50 food per minute at 15% would be only 333 food/min, or 12 workers on sheep. You're thinking of only economic upgrades of the mill, mine and lumber camp. Please read my original comment: all reasonable economic and military upgrades, including the ones the blacksmith and house of wisdom, university etc Choosing 50 food/min/TC over that is no question. And you really do need to decide between the two. Military and trade wing are too valuable late game. The resource costs saved of all the reasonable upgrades you need, not just basic eco ones, is beaten in the longterm total resources and the short term rates by getting tech earlier (for a 2 TC build order timing that Grubby was aiming for). Edit: I looked up the villager build rate. It is 20 seconds not 30 seconds. So you are correct that is 75/min, not 50. While 75 is good, it still does not beat the increased rates of a tech rush, which is now just needs to be higher than 500/min, or 18 on sheep. I think your strategy would be better with an early aggression timing off 1 base while continuing constant worker production. Multiple TC's delays aggression and more time = culture outpaces eco.
@@Norcalxx I don't know what to tell you other than you're not understanding correctly. The number of TC's is not irrelevant, because it determines the immediate economic boost from Foodstuffs (FS), even though the total resources saved over the game is the same. I chose 2 TC (for both players) to make the comparison easier. This makes the economic boost from FS roughly equivalent to the economic boost from having 3 eco upgrades at 30 villagers, which is about when both players will have those upgrades. (2TC FS = ~4 extra vils, 15% eco upgrades at 30 vils = ~4 extra vils) "You're thinking of only economic upgrades of the mill, mine and lumber camp" Yes, because that's what provides the economic boost that you claimed culture provides over FS. But it doesn't, as I showed, because FS gets MORE eco boost SOONER, which it can use to then also get the additional upgrades SOONER. Which means that FS provides ALL the eco benefits you're claiming for the culture upgrade, except SOONER. Which means that also translates to additional "bonus" resources that could be spent on military upgrades, or anything else. I admitted that culture was better for late game. But that's not the point of your post, which was "The preservation of wisdom upgrade gives... a faster payout in the *short term* for the *mid-game* play you're going for with a 2nd tc." Which is not the case. Plus, trade wing is not necessarily valuable in a 1v1, so the FS player could just use the increased economy to go castle + culture sooner, and claim both bonuses (although I would probably still go military). Team games, that's another story.
Forst of all thank you for your content and time to produce these amazing videos. Secondly, what do you think about the next phalanx upgrade (spearman range 100% increase)? Lastly, I am suffering with them in the late (camel riders are bad imo) what is your advice for late game and does the riders bonus work on elephants or not?
Does not work on elephants. Late game Abba economy is really good. Use a few camel archer for Auras. Riders not very good. Lancer/knight are good, xbow or handcannon if rich. Add bombard mangonel
@@FollowGrubby thanks for the reply appreciate it. Yeah I’ve figured how bad camel riders the hard way. Thanx for this amazing build order been trying it helped alot keep it up
The Camel Rider probably needs a buff, it loses to French Knights in even numbers, which isn't supposed to happen given that it is supposed to be a counter. It seems cost-inefficient as a counter to Cav, so unless we want to solely regard it as a hero unit, it needs to be buffed.
Great BO and explanation. Abbasid Dynasty gathered berries 25% faster. With patch 11009, it is 30%. Do you still prefer not to take berries immediately from the start with this buff?
Nicly explaned with the walking time, but isnt the lumber camp as far away from the trees as the trees from the tc :p because of your decision to connect it to the golden age area?:p if u havnt build the aging landmark yet, you can build the lumber camp next to the tree line and adapt with the house of wisdom ;)
Rly nice build order, covers a lot of variables as well. Regarding eco upgrades, can it be said in general that you want to get early eco upgrades only when you go 1TC pressure and if so after making the units you need to rush with? Because in this video they are skipped to go exp + fast age-up, similarly to AOE 2 where you skip eco upgrades when you want to go Fast Castle but may research some of them if you want to go Feudal Age pressure.
Nice build order, mine look similar but ive been doing what you said not to do, which is to build a mill for berries at the beginning and indeed i went into the same problems you mentionned. My eco was slow at the beginning. However, i wouldnt go Eco Wing for age 1 but Cultural Wing for Preservation of Knowledge gives a better eco boost
It really doesn’t though. Preservation of Knowledge (PoK) costs 175 and gives -30% tech cost. So, it pays off after you buy techs with an original cost of 600, which I guess is plausible to do in Feudal, but it will take a while to afford teching when you need to produce military to protect yourself. Fresh foodstuffs returns 75 food/min, so in 2:20, FF is paid off every time. So, in terms of how fast each of these techs starts turning a profit, FF is ahead. In fact, if you consider that FF returns 75 res/min, to match that level of savings with PoK, you would have to buy 175 resources worth of techs (original cost = 250) every minute, every minute of feudal age. I don’t think this is possible in any reasonable game. Of course, once you hit castle age, PoK gets much better, since techs cost more, and once you hit imperial age, you can pay PoK off with a single tech buy! But, I think that shows the best option is FF first, since it is best early game, and does nothing late game, and then picking up PoK in castle or imperial age, because most of the overall resource savings from PoK is from the resources saved on castle and imperial age technologies. :)
At around 6:20, you start clicking something/switching back and forth to something a bunch of times. I've seen it in other videos. What are you doing there, and what is it accomplishing?
Thank you for the concise explanation as to villager walking/idle time. I'm gonna have my wife watch this so that she understands why I am so critical while watching one of her favorite streamers as they dabble into the realm of RTS, and why I'm constantly yelling at the TV as I watch with her.
Technical question: In several videos of AoE4 (not this one), I see a message like "Destroyed Landmark. Repair completely to rebuild." even when it is an enemy building. If you do this, does it become yours? (So you could build their stuff to use against them?)
Something I think you get wrong is that berries/farms/sheep have different default gather rates, this myth comes from the fact that its true in past aoe games... it's just not true for aoe4 and this is very easy to test. Assuming the resource is next to a drop off (mill or TC) they all gather at a default rate of 40 food/minute with no bonuses or upgrades.
Great vid, not installed this game yet, but I'll never understand why some RTS players spam the same order over and over, one click is more than enough it slows you down clicking 5+ times for each order
Love your Guides man just started AOE4. How are you pausing the game??? I mean at times when playing with A.I. game goes on for long and I want to pause it but it doesn't pause completely the game still runs in the background.... can anyone help?
Cheers Grubby, very helpful video for starting out with abbasid. One small thing tho: Try to keep the gameplay uninterrupted, so people can play along and not have to pause the video (almost like an audio guide). All the extra information is very helpfull but would also fit in the end of the video.
instead of a rax i have started going for double- stable+ blacksmith and then making a 10 man strike force of horseman with +1 attack to go and harass my opponents Villagers. while im harrasing tho i try get a 2nd tc up and then age up.
ty for sharing this 2 tc boom, but i want a heavily military build order :> can you please share to us plaese :) ty grubby i do follow u in twitch and youtube
abbasid dynasty is garbage. No matter what age you are they are utter garbage. Bad units and you get killed by everyone first because you only have to destroy TC and house of wisdom. i have had like 20 games in a row where i just got rushed by 2 players at once, by the time support is arriving you are eliminated. played 100 + games and never got eliminated with every other civ. Trying abbasid for a week now. The only way i go out is by elimination within 20 minutes.
