Regarding the upcoming Break Effect characters, your argument is a bit disingenuous. You are presenting it like only they need supports to function. Every dps needs supports. Jingliu needs her supports, DHIL needs his supports, Ratio, even Acheron. Fully buffed E6 HTB (with Ruan Mei) can break 90% of an elite toughness bar in one skill, then you have your Gallagher for example or Aventurine breaking the rest, leaving them open for the dps. Double that if you want, its still within one cycle.
@@azsumgogo I think a lot of people just want dps units that utilize a good amount of supports instead of very specific ones. Jingliu honestly could use any support, but the break characters kinda need HMC and RM. It’s not that every dps need supports, its more needing specific supports isn’t good for a dps
One comment since I missed it in stream The community doesn't care about damage per round or 8 cycles the only care about damage per screenshot. (Outside of the nerds)
It’s inevitable, because 90 pulls is 90 pulls. Now if Acherons cost more we can make that exception for her but the fact is they all cost the same and players have limited resources.
@@Kaien-qf6cr Which is the first reason people make all the tier list and power ranking comparison. Because unless you whale you can't possibly get everything.
@@marupurusaivamsi4802 Too bad eh? Doesn't mean we shouldn't compare to any new recently released characters. I don't get why is it so bad to use Acheron as the benchmark? Just say character X is about 0.8AS (Acheron Scale), Character Y is 0.9 AS, so Y is better than X. Done 😁
Ok, to be fair, Boothill is hitting some really nutty damage at single target. Haven't seen him hit 1 million yet, but I have seen him hit 700k with a 3* light cone single target. Acheron is only hitting 1 million aoe.
What’s your point? That’s how all hunt characters should be but they been seem as a absolute joke because other paths hitting harder than them and are aoe, I rather take take a aoe unit compared to a single damage character in the current version of the game, thankfully because of the new game mode that’s coming out, should bring diversity in teams but the only reason this is happening is because mihoyo made sure you had a reason to pull for boothill and others alike if not aoe would keep dominating
@@keneunaegbu851 ???? You don’t understand that I want the hunt path to be good? So what words am I supposed to eat?? Up to now all hunt/single damage characters have been eclipsed by aoe units so I’m telling you that’s the reason why mihoyo is making the new game mode if not players wouldn’t care about them the only exception being boothill.. I see your reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit
While I agree with your take, and think it would be healthier for people not to have the meta mindset, the sad part is, the second a character becomes the best in the game, its all people will compare new things to, and its just how it is in the gacha space, me personally I pull for a bit of both but primarily who I like more than meta. its just how gacha communities work, and yes it negatively impacts the community.
I kinda had to wake up from the reality of how Acheron affects my account. I judged my units a little too harshly as if they should be doing what she does. Now it's more like this is what "Acheron" does and not so much "How everyone should be".
Acheron is the anomaly and you can tell that the devs put a lot of love and affection into her design and gameplay. She’s literally one of poster girls for hoyo since GGZ days and we fans all love her it no matter which universe she’s in 🥰
Actually the standard is not acheron herself but the enemy. For example if you can consistent clear endgame content with mid to good investment and with normal effort use Blade that mean Blade is the standard. in that situation you can use Acheron and perform maybe 4x better than what Blade can do but doesnt mean Acheron hand the new standard now. The content still can clear with Blade, Acheron just make that more easy
I mean... the thing is...acheron's dmg numbers are lowkey inflated af. Most of the times we see her hit 1 million, she's vs. 5 enemies with 3 weak mobs that keep getting slashed even after death for more dmg inflation. I'm not saying that she ain't doing that dmg, but a lot of that dmg is literally numbers fanservice. Besides, people keep saying 1 mil this 1 mil that when other units can reach those numbers through different means. I've seen clara hit close to 1 mil dmg in ONE turn cause she had double ults up with tingyun, and she was counting for 180k a pop with rainbow set. Seele hits for 300k an ult twice plus 3-4 skills each dealing anywhere between 100k and 200k, and you're way above 1 mil. The difference is seele reaches the dmg through her own different mechanism of action than acheron by taking probaly 5 times as many turns per cycle. Numbers aren't why acheron is strong. it's that her *borderline* cringe levels of self buffing are reached easily using none meta harmony units, and she utilises those buffs regardless of enemy typing while not being weak to either single target nor multi-target Aka, she's strong due to the mechanism of action, not just numbers. But that also means the second we get enemies that can't be debuffed, acheron would do less dmg than a bailu basic to them. Cause numbers don't matter if u can't use em, a crowd controlled JY would come to mind.
This. The moment we get an MOC boss that eats stacks placed on them, Acheron usage rate will plummet and fanboys will cry saying this is a personal attack on their waifu, and maybe it is.
Same as when DHIL and Jingliu was come in 1.3 and 1.4, we still in the Blade and Seele dmg standard, they 2 (DHIL and Jingliu) are exception at that time
Acheron is the emenator of nihility and nihiliy does not give a damn about anything, even standards so ye, we cant really compre Acheron with any character she is a anomaly and should not exist, so accurate to lore
Archeron feels more like a dps 2nd gen release ahead her time I wouldn't be surprise if the next dps using the same achetype is in fact weaker than her
I don’t know I love having characters that I know that would bring a lot of value to my account and Acheron does that perfectly for clearing all of content so far in the game so does aventurine when keeping me alive.. I know some people don’t care about meta n stuff but for people like me I wanna have a reason to pull for said character
Now we have a new moc that is not made for her, we can see Acheron e0s0 is not that strong. My e0s0 dhil performed much better... Don't think she is unbalanced
Yeah my Acheron fell off a cliff without those extra debuffs from the turbulence. Jiaoqiu can't come soon enough hopefully he will be the Sparkle tier support for Acheron. People keep talking about the dps powercreep but the supports is where the game is getting nutty. We got so many game changing harmony units almost back to back to back that old dps keep up with Acheron just fine and in some cases better than Acheron herself.
It's not just that this MoC is not made for her -- it actively buffs everyone else in the game and does basically nothing for her directly. And she's still more or less on par with pretty much every other team comp. Still the strongest DPS in the game but it's easy to see how HSR has levers built into their end game design to mitigate power creep.
@@heyohworld4067 yeah, that's what I meant. They are finding ways to mitigate powercreep. I think they're doing a great job. I just wish there was a challenge using Shared HP system so we can choose freely between hunt, erudition and destruction
I’m glad you talked about this because I noticed that with break teams. Ideally they someone to give them a super break like effect when the enemy isn’t broken. Or like have Kafka can trigger dots. A character that lets breaker do 50-70% of their normal break dmg to an enemy even with their toughness bar still up as a support. Or the breakers themselves need that in their passive and should have super break somewhere in their kit
Sorry but this take is horrible especially considering your background in FGCs Everyone ALWAYS compares new characters to the HIGHEST tier regardless of if they reach that level or not and then you MOVE DOWN the list on the tier until you reach the appropriate tier. Yu-Gi-Oh Tier 0 format was PePe and EVERYTHING and I do infact mean EVERYTHING was comparing to how strong, fast, consistent that deck was regardless of how good it was AND THEN it was moved down and compared to the tiers UNDER tier 0. That's the entire purpose of Tier lists and it's the ENTIRE reason why Tier 0 is always usually hated in card games because it gets annoying and stale after a while. The saaaaame issue happens in FGCs Smash Bros 4 Wii U for instance. Bayonetta was the strongest character and everyone compared others to her. Smash Brawl, Meta Knight. SSF you will ALWAYS compare to the best characters and also match ups. Iyo this take is just bad tbh. That's just how Tier 0 is, she gets compared first because she's just the strongest, fastest ult rotator, most consistent. If she was on jingliu tier and there was no Zero (SSS tier) she would STILL be compared along side the Dhil pickle at the same time because they are on the same tier, but the reality is she's higher so she's compared first. She is THE golden standard for the highest in the game currently. It is what it is
i AGREE ON the acheron take but where I diverge is that just cause a character requires full team of supports to 0 cycle or 1 cycle doesn't make them bad boothill requires 3 supports (mainly bronya and raun mei) but that still wouldn't make him not ready considering that i think the way you are looking at break teams is wrong to begin with break teams don't require ramp up just the characters we have gotten have a form of ramp up cs when you think bout it most break teams we currently have are actually some of the easiest to build and set up and with proper put together teams and good conditioning they effortlessly 0 cycle or 1 cycle. Boothill dmg although arguably back loaded can easily become front loaded thanks to his technique and ult and his ult is consistently up enough for me to disagree on the ults weakness plant. in the end most this stuff doesnt matter when you are min maxing but great video and good point.
Bro Acheron deals so much damage that I haven't even been using a second nihility and she's still outputting a quarter million to half a million damage easily with Robin and Sparkle and i don't even half traces for Robin yet, she wasn't even max level. During the Aventurine boss fight, i was using Huohuo, HTB, Sparkle, and Acheron, and she was pretty much one shotting him still, it's wild how much she exceeds the DMG threshold. Also one thing I'm noticing, since Acheron dropped, I've been seeing more and more people wanting to play the game less and less excited for new characters, even I'm not really interested in any of the dps characters cause Acheron granted she's very fun to use
@@yubaa Yep doing simulated universe is not so bad right now but now I don't want to pick another team since they won't be able to skip the mobs like Acheron. I will be pulling Ruan Mei and Firefly for break team so maybe that will encourage me to use someone else but Acheron will still be best for overworld.
I think he is just way to overtuned for no reason, he is hitting those numbers like is nothing, and he is shitting on every ST DPS and just for what i saw so far, he will be in Acheron's Tier and maybe she will go down before he goes down
I need to see what you guys are watching cause from my testing (in what would be a standard team comp), he’s only getting ~500k AFTER the break. Where is this crazy DMG before the break, y’know?
@@Iyoverse I mean he has increased weakness break efficiency, applies his own weakness, is naturally fast, actually synergizes well with action advance characters, breaking enemies will not at all be an issue, it’s just the set up, consider it like how acheron needs her 9 stacks to really pop off, it also serves as a prerequisite to do her damage, but it’s not so difficult to pull off that it serves as a hindrance you know?
@@Iyoverse and i wanna make it very clear that “you know” wasn’t meant to be like sarcastic or anything, because i reread it and i saw it could come off as some type of way despite it not being my intention
@@Iyoverse the thing is almost every enemy, he can two shots so far, only some bosses can survive 3 shots of Boothill. He is doing ridiculous amount of Toughness Break with Ruan Mei like 225 for every turn he takes. Also 500k Break and also 500k after he attacks against weakness broke enemies. No one is doing that level of DMG with so little setup no even Acheron imo. He is way to overtuned as a Hunt Character. At first glance i though he will need a larger ramp up time or he will lose the ramp up at some point but no, he is just that broken :(. I mean 370k with no LC WTF?
Just like how she is in lore, she is the exception not the rule. She isn’t a valid unit of measure for future dps because she is and was never meant to be to be a new standard. She is an anomaly in both the story and the meta. Even the way she gains her burst is an exception.
The thing is, if you are f2p resources are very limited, and it's hard to get more than one new character per version. And even then, you could get less if you get screwed by 50/50. Not saying that every new character should stronger than the one before, because then we'd have an even bigger powercreep problem. But unless a new DPS is at least around the same league as what I already have, or offers something that makes them stand out outside of their DPS... I'm probably gonna skip. So, yeah, I will be comparing new chracters to Acheron. ^^;
They really dropped a character that literally INSTA KILLS mobs without getting into combat and people think this is a unit that is supposed to be compared to.
But I have Yomi on my account. Why would I not compare new DPS units to her when evaluating who to roll for? This whole video comes across as cope for people who like other DPS characters.
@@MeiEnjoyer because she was designed to be better than everyone who currently exists and probably better than anyone who will exist in the future. Also in no gacha game do people compare every singular character that comes out to the best character in the game, the comparison is only made if they are actually strong enough to be worth comparing, i.e summer melusine to summer ibuki. If we are constantly trying to upstage the best dps in the game then the game will become impossible for f2ps
During that one hex juice video where she compared ratio to acheron i just thought to myself: Comparing ratio to acheron is like comparing a sub machine gun to a nuke The gun is still gonna kill things but nukes be nukin'
@@lordradiance2530 my guy roll for who you want but miss me with this shit. Even on this very channel any new character that comes lut gets compared to whoever the previous best character was for their role. See the video he did about Aventurine and Fugen. I get that this is your first Honkai game but in the other one power creep is totally a thing and with a few exceptions you only expect your limited DPS option to last about 12-18 months in the meta until a direct upgrade is released and even then in the mean time a unit or team can come out that is extremely competitive when brute forcing neutral abyss weathers.
Imo the problem it's not just acheron. but the enemies and difficulty of the content, and by difficulty I mean the ridiculous spike on enemy HP every time.
Yep wondering why Gepard got so much health now but they literally doubled it which is crazy. They need to sell Boothill so they had to make enemies have ridiculous amount of health.
Point in fact is that they can make an acheron and have made one so they can make similar character, SHE WILL BE A LEVEL OF STANDARD TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. Not even mentioning the fact that MoC has already DOUBLED the HP bar of the bosses (just look at the swarm HP) makes it so that WE NEED CHARACTERS LIKE ACHERON for "unfortunate casuals (i.e those pulling for non-meta units)" let me repeat myself CASUALS to even keep up.
@@goldshot754 thing is, she doesn't break that fast. They function like the dino monster where they take very little damage until you break them. She works, but someone like Boothill or Firefly would clean that up much faster.
I have acheron and use her but she isn't exactly what I'd call fun to use, I use her if a stage is literally too hard for me to full star clear otherwise I use my more fun teams
If Acheron was the new standard from here on out, that would mean the powercreep is so bad that literally every other previous character would basically be obsolete at this point. That's not what we want.
To be honest, I don't care what god DPS they drop. Once I get tired of using them for everything I'm switching teams no matter how cracked they may be lol. I aint roll all of these characters for no reason.
Acheron will be the standard. New DPS units will hover around her level. They may not exceed or even reach it, but they will hover around her. She is the standard in terms of the current plateau rather than the new linear powercreep pattern.
The thing with Acheron AKA Raiden Mei is its Hoyoverses baby child They need to ensure she is the most powerful in every Hoyo game Those that didnt pull for her are truly missing out
Thank you for this take about Acheron, totally agree 👌 This brings us to another issue in the gacha sphere: if the bar isn't being raised high enough for a new unit, some people don't feel the need to pull. But if it is, and if subsequent units don't raise it (at least) on the same level... then these people aren't enticed to pull either. Given how tricky it can be to balance an entire roster and to manage the playerbase's expectations, do you feel it was a slight mistake to make Acheron this powerful compared to the others? When it comes to managing expectations, could it be a miscalculation and a problem in the long run?
Acheron will eventually get powercreepd.. when that happens, will you say the new character ruined the perception of what a dps should be?.. You're acting like this is a new phenomenon in gacha games lol
I mean, it's totally accurate lore-wise, since Raiden Mei is an emanator of Nihility and she's overpower in every way possible. Maybe Hoyo wanted this on purpose. Even in Genshin impact they make every archon more powerful than a "normal" 5 star unit. So yeah, i agree that she should not be considered the "new standard". They wanted to make her this much powerful even in gameplay because it reflects what she is in the story: A walking nuke.
It will be lol, Acheron is just a pure dps, all they have to do is release a character that does more damage and she's powercrept, and if you think they won't do that by the end of the year you're delusional 😂
@@keneunaegbu851 It will take at least 2 years for Acheron to be powercrept (especially in the same element). Herrscher of Thunder and Raiden Shogun were the best lightning dps in their respective games for a while. Mei is the queen of thunder and her character shows it in every game.
@gancyr3D Even when Shogun came out, her damage was mid. Electro wasn't even that good. The best thing about Shogun was the energy battery above everything. fast forward a year later, she isn't even the top 5 characters in the game. Fast forward to now. She literally competes with Kuki Shinobu as a seed maker for hyperbloom, lol, if you say Fischl does more damage than Raiden Shogun, no one would even bat an eye. Raiden Mei is even worse, literally got powercrept to oblivion. Both Yoyo girl and a crazy Chainsaw girl blow her out of the water in every aspect Idk what people think this is, Hoyo is a company, and there are no exceptions when it comes to powercreep, especially for pure dps units lol. Acheron will 100% get powercrept within 2 years lol
@@keneunaegbu851 For Herrscher of Thunder, you mentioned Luna and Senadina who came out in 2023 and 2024 respectively... HoT came out in 2020. The closest something got to powercreeping HoT before that was Mobius and Aponia which both did not perform very well in HoT's weather. As for Raiden Shogun, She is still currently the best Electro dps in Genshin. She even has a free 4* weapon, so if you can't do damage with her that's a skill issue.
@@keneunaegbu851 Damage dealer like Seele is easily powercrept at this point. Jingliu is surfing unfortunately around that too. But there are chars that are more difficult to powercreep, such as Kafka which is still to this day absolute must for dot team and adding more dot 5stars just makes her better. Your prediction fails on this one as there is a similar thing going on for Acheron. Whenever comes a 5star nihility that buffs ultimate, gives ton of debuffs and so on, or is intended to work as Acherons teammate she just gets stronger (There is currently no 5 stars that are meant specifically for debuff nihility teams). Also you totally forgetting if we get to the time when Acheron's is so heavily powercrept that her damage is not good enough.... Well all your current characters are completely useless. So lets hope you are very wrong on that one 🤯
I compare characters based on their damage type (ST and AoE). Any character that does ST I compare to the top ST character. Same with AoE characters. Of course I don't compare anyone to acheron because that's just dumb knowing that she is literally in her own league right now and she is completely overkill.
I think part of the issue is just how we perceive DPS in HSR. That we have the question of "is this banner DPS >= current best DPS?" if not: skip It's why many skipped characters like Argenti, who didn't live up to DHIL/Jingliu And I think many will similarly skip Boothill because of Acheron Supports & healers are more general, but DPS tend to just be a case of picking whichever does the largest total damage, they're much easier to directly compare
No man, I’m sorry but that is not how this works. There are no exceptions in gacha, period. We already see the escalation of force with Boothill and Firefly, the latter of who seems to be pulling slightly AHEAD in comparison showcases(despite being doomposted).
I mean. I kinda saw this happening when I watched someone 1 shoot the story boss and skip all the interactions with it. I didn't even want her and I git her 30 pulls in while pulling for Gallaghers. Now she's an overworld farm bot I'm not building.
I started a new account to main acheron and my previous main had blade as its dps With having lost all 50/50s and 75/25s so far, i gotta say. Pulls are expensive and wasting pulls on a garbage character feels account ruining She may not be the standard, yes. But i have to be realistic that she will be standard. Look at how sneaky the moc hp buff came in. Double hp in a single patch
I've been thinking of that as well, During "break metas" in MOC the devs probably won't block weakness bars like they have been doing for some enemies, not long after they will probably start countering them again maybe a few weeks or months after the break characters banners leave
I feel that the devs are trying to keep the character's capabilities (damage) in line with the game's lore. Not only because of the hype around Acheron but the status she holds as an emanator. I believe that, in the future, only emanator characters will have the capability to exceed the damage that the other dps units i.e. Galaxy rangers/stellaron hunters/Arbtier generals etc... can do.
I gotta be honest, with Acheron's damage ceiling, Hoyo kinda fucked up. They made her TO powerfull. I do like it... but to be fair , i'm a spender/collector so I will pull no mather what on every character to have multiple teams/diversity. (I got all my 5* + sign LC's) BUT for anyone els and even spenders like myself in most cases.. WHY THE FUCK would anyone pull for a new DPS character that "only" deals 300-350k damage while being buffed? While Acheron obliterates the enemy w/o thinking.. (I'm not talking waifu/husbando bullshit..gameplay wise)
I have some big problems with this take, and I’m sorry Iyo but I’ve got to call you out. You were one of the prime content creators gassing Ruan Mei to the moon. You were also one of the prime content creators in the 1.x cycle that any time a character was talked about or theory crafted, you shoved Silver Wolf into the team at every chance you could. And your reasoning was, and I’m paraphrasing, “You were all told how important Silver Wolf would be, you should have her”. So discounting Ruan Mei + HMC as the break support building blocks because not everyone will have Ruan Mei seems disingenuous at best. Not to mention she’s getting a rerun. HMC is free so that’s not even a discussion. Next you’re talking about how Acheron’s damage is not the rule but the exception and other characters need to be compared to any similar character, just not Acheron. But the reality is there have been videos posted in your own discord showing Boothill getting 250-350k+ per attack, single target, and Firefly getting 350-450k group damage per attack. So I don’t know why we’re giving these disingenuous comparisons when I and you know the videos were in your own server. Now if they’ve since been deleted fine, but this whole video seems highly hypocritical.
I believe it’s fair for you to have these assessments, but let me help clear them up for you so that you can better ones. Me gassing Mei up has nothing to do with anything I’ve said in this video. I am not crucifying or stating that no one should have A or B character, nor am I saying DON’T have them. In relation to Break Effect, I am also not saying Boothill is, by definition, bad. What I stated was Break Effect is not ready ‘yet’ if it depends on Mei & Harmony MC in the team, but lacks a guaranteed function for every scenario. I.e getting the actual break consistently and fast, because the DMG doesn’t happen until they are broken. Which I mentioned in the video as fulfilling the condition. I’m not sure why Boothill from my discord is being mentioned, but I’ll take the guess this about Acheron comparison only. I, absolutely do not believe they are on the same level for similar reasons, and that does not aide in me believing every DPS should be compared to Acheron. Even if I used the letter tier system, which people in the Gacha community still read wrong… A tier is the standard. S tier means ABOVE the standard. It’s only in the gacha community that they read the very top tier of SSS++ as the standard. You guys are proving my point even further from the video. She’s insanely strong, rightfully so. But that doesn’t mean every DPS needs to be compared to her as the standard for evaluation. This is not me saying you CAN’T compare another DPS to her, but it is me saying to be mindful that you are comparing Krillin to SSJ2 Goku. Me telling you guys apples are red doesn’t magically translate into oranges are purple and gross and I hate them. TLDR; if Acheron is Gojo, how & why would the JJK Society make Gojo “the strongest” the standard for evaluation? By default, everyone is ass in comparison, and Hoyo would have to continuously make more Acheron’s which we all know isn’t going to be the case.
@@IyoverseI hate to cut in, but you're not giving break enough credit. These new break characters especially Boothill are much more dangerous than Acheron. Acheron is like Genshin's Eula. She builds up and does 1 million. Her weakness is she needs to build up another ultimate again. Boothill and Firefly puts you in a fighting game vortex. Once you break, you take nonstop 500k hits till death. It's insane.
@@Iyoverse I’m not saying that you’re telling people they should or shouldn’t have Ruan Mei. What I’m saying is that if you’re going to insinuate that your team building method was valid in the 1.x cycle because of Silver Wolf, then you have to by that very same logic admit that allowing Ruan Mei and HMC into the team allows for the break meta to be ready. You start talking about it around 5:56 in the video, maybe slightly before, but you address the point from a viewer at 6:16 until 6:45 saying that it’s not ready yet because you need both HMC and Ruan Mei. But that’s the rub, HMC is completely free and including Ruan Mei in the team is no different from auto including SW in teams during 1.x, so saying that it’s not ready because “you need both” is disingenuous just using your own logic. I brought up damage numbers from Boothill and Firefly because the videos had them outputting numbers similar to E0 Acheron with the proper support. Acheron gets those massive numbers from groups. Boothill gets (adjusted for single target) similar numbers. Not to mention Boothill implants his own weakness, so he’s able to push himself towards the break goal on his own as well. The break support is there, and it’s just wrong to say otherwise. As far as hoyo releasing “more acherons”, that’s an inevitability. Even if Boothill doesn’t do 100% of what Acheron can do adjusted for his niche of single target upon release, my point was that I know you know he’s right next to her. They are moving the power scale up, power creep has been talked about for a while now, it comes to every gacha. Whatever the standard is now, the characters coming up are going to exceed that soon. Your opinion is that Acheron shouldn’t be the standard everyone is rated against (fair). I’m saying that you’re misrepresenting the point. What’s going to happen is the power scale is going to slide up to a point where these “standards” aren’t going to exist. We saw it with Seele on release.
@@Michael-ft5bm Okay, I understand the disconnect now. I’m not referring to Break not being ready because of DMG, low performance, or anything like that. I’m referring to “can they meet this condition requirement in the same performing metrics as XYZ standards we currently have”. Then, you would start nitpicking ‘how’ they can do this. So while I don’t inherently have an issue with Mei + HMC on one team, I will acknowledge that it limits Boothill’s ability to abuse the games mechanics like the other DPS. For instance, to add AV in that team you have to remove who? The sustain is the only viable option. Most players cannot do that right now; the data shows it. You take away HMC and now Boot’s DMG suffers. You take away Mei and now Boot’s condition fulfillment slows down. Those two are static. Amazing units, but static until we get more units to help or discover new things for new teams. My statement is waaaaay less about the DMG performance of Break and more about HOW they break and how quickly can they do it. I know I can break someone in 1 shot with Boothill (tested this for a week in-game), but I need Mei. Then for me to get those huge numbers you’re referring to, I also need HMC. I’m still actively testing anything that comes my way, but I am, by no means, making it out to be that Break is weak. It’s broken (pun intended), but only once the condition is fulfilled.
@@Iyoverse Ok this provides better context. But I also haven’t seen what extensive testing shows when it comes to cycle count. Can viewers expect a video on that soon?
The problem with this is from a meta players prospective, numbers are the be all and end all, and simply accepting that "acheron is the new god king forever" basically just means the meta will never change and get really boring for those meta players. The reason people compare is because for any meta player the question when a new character comes out is always "okay what does this new character do that my old characters don't", and when that answer is "nothing lol ripbozo" for those meta type players the game gets boring really fast. It's similar to the waifu vs meta discussion, neither side is wrong it's just based on what people enjoy. I feel like effectively going around and saying "just don't care about the meta/numbers lol" is kind of nonsensical, since while playing based on your favorite characters is an absolutely valid way to play, equally so is playing based off the meta, and just telling meta players to eat rocks for eternity since this is the peak and you shouldn't ever expect more than this doesn't seem particularly fair for that side of the player base. On a similar point of discussion is you talking about not comparing "jade's damage to seele" for example. While this is true in a sense, only to a degree. Look at a comparison of for example JingLiu's single target damage, to a hunt character such as seele. When the AOE characters are dealing *more single target* than the single target dmg focused characters, that's a problem. It completely invalidates the single target character's niche, since the AOE characters are doing literally everything the single target characters are doing, except better since they can also hit multiple targets. It's important to make these comparisons because as is in the current meta, hunt characters outside of doctor ratio are basically just completely rip bozo compared to the best characters in the game. (from a meta prospective, you can still clear content with the weaker hunt characters obviously). If we didn't make these comparisons we wouldn't know how under tuned hunt characters are currently, and wouldn't know to complain/tell mihoyo to give us some better hunt characters (an excellent example being boothill who from leaks, seems to be the best hunt by a mile).
The powercreep in HSR is pretty fast, so acheron may not be the standard right now but in a few patch she will be. Even currently, older dps became worse ( in a way ) following the release of acheron because the end game bosses became stronger, and its not even the new bosses (like aventurine) that are stronger than the older one as old boss are getting higher stats to stand up to the current state of dps. For instance in the second MoC of 2.0, on floor 12 gepard had about 550k hp whereas in the new MoC he has more than 1 million hp. Edit: I know that ennemies getting stronger is also the results of new supports coming out to buff everyone and players' relics getting better with time, but it still shows that the standards are becoming higher. I would be surprised if acheron remains alone in T0 by version 3.0 ( she may even drop to T0.5 )
The Firefly situation is funny because players are so conditioned by "My carry needs as much crit and crit damage as possible!" when we're already seeing with Xueyi that focusing on maxing BE and speed then just having whatever extra crit stats are available is how break is going to be played in superbreak comps.
I agree generally. Until they start releasing other characters on the power-level of Acheron, we should see her as an outlier. A better level of comparison is against DHIL/Jingliu imo
Shes not seen as the standard tho, shes literally in a tier of her own. If anything Jingliu and Lunae are seen as what we should expect from DPS or better.
If Hoyo released a 5* support that decreases enemy's damage dealt by 50%, effect hit rate by 50% and all element res by 30% all for 3 turns based on supp's count but boosts target enemy's speed or action advance them forward 100% or make them act twice that turn... You can bet that 90% of the community will call that support useless, anti-game, flop. Even aventurine, blade and clara havers, even if hoyo remade gepard to work like the silvermane general guy. They would 100% call such support useless. Not me tho, i would 100% shill that support and go "ACKSHULLY"
this is such a good take i saw the leaks about firefly her damage is comparable to dhil or jingliu when you use the right team for the build you put on her (ruan mei and hmc for break/sparkle and robin for crit) i've seen so many ppl call her mid but she's only mid if you use a crit team with a break build (not sure about the reverse) and since her damage is on par with dhil and jingliu that's pretty much saying if the character isn't acheron they're mid which we all know isn't true bc dhil and jingliu are still in the top 3
I mean from the stuff that i saw on youtube, no one is trying boothil or firefly in a pure hyper carry setting. also double and triple weaknesses should be taken into consideration. for example, firefly is supported by gallagher which is a huge help with breaking enemies and hes the same type as firefly. and hmc with his imaginary also does a lot of damage if the weakness is there.
Yep completely true Acheron is so strong to the point its are they stronger than Acheron. She absolutely destroyed the previous standard. And to those saying jing liu did the same kinda not really dan heng il was always relative to jing liu she was easier to build and use but on his release im pretty sure he didnt even have hanya. So obviously he only needed time to get sp generator’s like hanya and sparkle.
Yeah, that’s the thing about DHIL and some other characters who have like “flaws” in their kits. Once they are solved, these characters get a lot better, there is a huge potential to growth. Acheron needs debuffs? Let’s make cracked debuffer for her. DHIL needs SP? Let’s make a better Bronya for him. And so on and so forth In JL’s case she’s pretty… complete? There’s nothing really to improve, that’s both good and bad. Good because you only need Bronya and you’re good to go, bad because she won’t change when other characters will get better. That’s a very interesting thought. The only thing they could do for her is a better TingYun, but other characters would benefit from it even more
the main way i look at it is Acheron and Aventurine are essentially Anniversary characters(which in every game is generally OP for awhile),at this point in time i would not suspect the future characters to have the same standard atleast not till next year when powercreep may catch up.
Not comparing DPS to the current peak DPS makes no sense. Comparing ones performance to another in the same archetype is what most games do. There’s no if ands or buts unless X unit is a festival/special event unit, where they would be compared to units of the same events, which Acheron isnt. Shes just a limited unit like the rest of em so calling her an “exception” is not right whatsoever. When she gets powercrept, yall gonna stop calling her an exception and call the new peak dps the exception?😂 the only “reasonable” comparison that shouldn’t be made is standard vs limited, but we know that aint happening
Completely unrelated but NONO IN THE BACKGROUND WOOHOO but fr tho comparing DMG per screenshot between any character with Acheron is pretty dumb on itself
This is one of the only game communities where they compare whole dedicated DPS units to supports and healers like Aventurine for some reason and it's so wild to me, cause they act like these two are competing against each other for the DPS spot.
It's not that they compete for the DPS spot but they all compete for your Stellar Jades regardless of their role. That means they have to be compared to determine which brings more overall value to your account. If we're talking comparing damage only, then that's because killing the enemies is the only metric for success in the game. Even for sustainers, it's how easily do they keep your team healthy enough to focus on doing damage instead of surviving, and do they provide anything extra that helps your team do damage.
@@Ace331FTW Again this is one of the only communities that’s stupid enough to compare sustains and supports to straight up damage dealers. Like, do you suddenly think that healers in other games don’t compete for your pulls or something, even if that’s not already a ridiculous metric to try and make sense of you doing this dumb action? That on top of killing everything is how most games work that aren’t some puzzle game or something. Even then no one compares Huohuo or even Fu Xuan to someone like Acheron, they compare them to other supports and sustains, despite them being able to deal damage with their basics, and in Fu's case her ult, but turn around and do that to aventurine, despite his main objective being to sustain/buff/debuff That’s like comparing a school bus to a sports car when they have 2 different jobs. It’s unnecessary and you’re trying to downplay one of these things. IT makes a lot more sense to compare a sports car, to a sports car. otherwise you look what?....stupid.
Maybe you're just in a different corner of the discussion than me but I've never seen anyone say Aventurine should be doing Acheron damage. I've seen "Aventurine dmg is mid," which in the grand scheme of things it is. He has good damage for a sustain, compared to like Fu Xuan or Luocha, but it's not going to compare to Acheron. Where he excels is both sustaining and adding to the overall DMG your team is doing, like I said.
@@Ace331FTW Of course people don't say he should be doing Acheron's damage, but that doesn't mean they don't compare that damage to Acheron. That's two different conversations at that point. Like, gacha smack put out a whole video (Title: Don't fall for this Aventurine build trap) going "Aventurine's damage isn't Acheron level, so why invest in that instead of more shield" (Paraphrasing), like Aventurine isn't standing besides her and doing his own thing, and then he doubles down in the comments (Look for Dahras1's comment). His damage is apparently a build trap instead of just something to help you maybe clear something faster in someone's eyes...why? Hell, in Iyo's last video there's a whole comment going "We're going to compare all damage to Acheron, because she's moved the meter (Again paraphrasing), which is stupid because no one is bringing up units who actually do very little damage to drag down their value. Him doing his "Mid damage" brought him into the "Who's the best damage dealer" convo for some reason only slow people can understand. Even then, with the metric you set in your first comment, Aventurine not only dealing damage but sustaining and debuffing would make him a better pull. You can literally use him as a hyper carry, much like blade (He dopes about this level of damage), the numbers just won't be as big as hers.....but we both know people aren't about to tell anyone to pull for him over Acheron. Your metrics don't make sense, which is my point, and it just becomes a really bad excuse to downplay a unit in some way at that point when these two really shouldn't be compared. Also, my last comment got deleted for some reason and I'm not about to type it again.
@@Gration_ I don't think we're in disagreement. I have both Acheron and Aventurine and I think they're both very good units/pulls. I never implied one was better than the other. Smack was just making the point that without a sig light cone and a team that benefits his damage, Aventurine will do almost the same damage when you build him full DEF so you may as well just get the bigger shields. Just a matter of preference in builds and what you want him to do for your team/account.
Would be nice if we can get a 2nd character besides Ruan Mei that can enhance weakness break efficiency, since that's what really makes her so valuable on the break teams (in addition to all the other nutty things she does). Needing hat MC for the teams to work is a non-issue, since they are free to everyone, but having the teams damage and time to ramp up severely held back if you don't have a limited 5 star is.
For me it’s the lifestyle change once you get Acheron my mains no longer became my mains especially Acheron slash that speeds up simulated universe once you experience that I’m afraid the play style would have to beat Acheron….damage is good but just the playing style speeds up soooooo fast it makes it fun yes but pulling someone with that same thrill it may not be there especially after seeing Boot Hill etc not very exciting if you ask me 😊
... not NUCLEAR DRAMA? 😢 Fun fact: My E6 Sushang break team (HMC/Ruan Mei/Sushang/Gallagher) did MoC12 2 turns faster than my Acheron Team (E0S1). Break is the meta for this MoC. Can you still smash my time with E6S5 Acheron? Absolutely. edit: I don't think Childe is a good example because he is getting his ass carried by C4 XIANGLING! OPPA!!! 🤣
Dps with more speed and supports with more speed , can made more damage for 1 cycle. Currently im doing 1 cicle clear in moc 12 with Acheron E0S1 135 speed, Kafka E0S0 151 speed, Black Swan E0S0 136 speed and Ruan Mei E1S0 162 speed.
13:51 I wish we had a character that would extend the duration of debuffs and heavily increase the amount of damage that enemies take while weakness broken, but each hit that lands on the enemy would advance their action forward... or at least have some character that could do that so Clara could get hit more often or for dot teams when that one enemy has a sliver of hp left and could die if the dots just triggered on their turn but they get delayed into the next cycle because of weakness break
@@Hekk.On current MoC, e0s1 Firefly clears 1 cycle faster than an e0s1 Acheron. For pf, there are better choices than Acheron. She is a great versatile unit but she is a new standard, not an exception
@@isshonsaha8673 every MoC always favors the new units so they benefit from the buffs I don't see what trying to get at here. If they came in on Acherons favored MoC she would clear faster than them so this irrelevant.
@@templeknights The enemies have both Fire and Lightning weakness and the buff was for the follow up teams so both sides benefitted equally. It was completely neutral so that this very specific argument couldn't be raised
No but really a sup that inflicted a SPD buff on the enemy but in exchange granted a MASSIVE vulnerability would be God for comps that like to get hit (Clara, maybe blade) and comps that deal dmg on the enemies' turn (DoT) would be mad funny
I do agree with the sentiment that Acheron should not be the new standard, but Aventurine made switch sides because I realized that they power creeped their two best characters in a single patch. Acheron and power creep are the new standards. Its only possible to realize now that while 1.5 was patching every standard banner character had some useful area and were even BiS at quite a few things. Now in 2.2, you have to use a lot of asterisks to use a standard banner character on a best team setup. I've played dozens of gachas and the characters who break unique core game mechanics are usually the characters that your still using 2+ years later. If a character like that falls out of the meta then its almost always a sure sign of power creep. In HSR that is Silver Wolf and she is in the process of being power creeped by Boothill and to a lesser extend BS can ignore weaknesses with strong DoTs. Its unlikely to stop with just those two.
I think we'll need to see how future characters perform before we can decide whether Acheron is setting a new standard or just an outlier. If Boothill, Firefly, Jade, and whoever comes after have damage output closer to Acheron's numbers than DHIL's or Jingliu's, then there's a new DPS standard. I really hope that isn't the case and Acheron IS just an outlier, or powercreep is going to be worse & faster than expected.
I feel like this isn't the full picture. It's not just about how much damage you do in one instance, but how much you do in a rotation. My Jingliu, Bronya, Ruan Mei Robin team was doing very solid damage even in the shadow of Acheron. Both are at E1S1 investment, however. Jingliu's single target damage does fall off a cliff if you don't have her E1, so that is worth noting. With that said, I do find my Doteron hyper offense team to be my favorite for brute forcing. It's very strong with either Ruan Mei, Robin or Asta. Asta allows the full team to go 3 times per wave thanks to 4pc Hacker Space, S5 DDD, level 12 ult, and proper speed tuning, which means Acheron can easily get three ults in one wave with at least some support and 2 other significant sources of damage. So, not a bad option for when I want to use Ruan mei and Robin on the other side. As for future units, they do need to do enough damage to have instances where it makes sense to use them in place of a DPS I already have. Looking at dupes and signatures makes a lot of sense with that in mind. It's a tall order for the new DPS to have to do better than the prior one when the prior one is at E1S1. Just something to keep in mind. But, yeah, I am going to use Acheron as a gauge to an extent, because DPS have to compete with DPS I already have to make the cut. Granted of course, there are two teams, so even if they fall short of Acheron, they can compete w/ the other team. It can help of course if the DPS in question is of an element that isn't heavily represented. RIP to the next new Lightning DPS if they aren't busted in some way though. Thankfully for Kafka, she has teams that work great with Acheron, and actually, with the addition of Robin, Hyper Critka is a 0 cycle machine against Lightning weak stages, which can free up Acheron still for the other side if you want to brute force with her which is very viable to do.
Acheron is way too strong and too op, really made DHIL without Sparkle, obsolete. But don't worry, Firefly/Sam is expected to outdamage and outperform Acheron. Her attacks and ultimate, Aerial Bombardment and the DeathStar, would simply obliterate everyone.
@@OppriteThe reason firefly teams are faster is because the entire team contributes to the team dps. In Acheron teams, Acheron is the only one dealing damage. It's probably better if you don't compare only her superbreak dmg against Acheron's dmg.
This is so true. I build Acheron hitting 500k e-z and then I built Topaz and was like 36k?)): to find out that’s a very respectable amount of damage for her since Numby then acts. Acheron has rotted my mind.
I've been wanting a feature where we have some kind of after battle report so we can see damage dealt, healing, shielding things like that. Would be useful.
No no no. That's the ONLY option. So it's ready, IF you have those characters, but given the fact that you need to now gear those 2 Harmony characters around XYZ Break DPS - it will determine what you are capable of doing overall. It's easier explained after early access is allowed.
@@ectoBiologist21In ff's case, the problem comes from the fact that 90% (or even more) ogmf the dmg comes from hmc and there are no viable alternatives to hmc. I think that making a unit disfunctional without another specific unit is just bad kit design. Take Boothill for example: he's a break unit too but most of his comps damage comes from him while also not being forced to be used with neither hmc and rm
@ectoBiologist21 you missed the point entirely. You can still play Ratio without other FuA characters. You can still play boothill without break. You can play Jingliu without hypercarry. But you literally CANNOT play Firefly without both Harmony MC and Ruan Mei. Her damage output is around 15% higher than Hook superbreak, and that is purely because of advance forward in her kit. She has extremely poor design choices and her multipliers need an entire rework. People are going to cope when they see the high BE and Attack stats and big pp break numbers. I would say asta hyperbreak is fundamentally a better character than her because at mimimum on turns the enemy isnt broken, she is providing support and speed boosting the team. It isn't something i should even consider for a limited 5* dps.
And she 100% is not worth the jades when she brings significantly less viability to 95% of teams in the game than other 5* options. Shes literally a support for HTB at this point. As the video states, Acheron is the exception. As is firefly. But on the complete opposite end. Below mid tier.
It's a game that needs team composition... If the meta is leaving the old pattern in which only dps mattered to load the content with almost no strategy involved, it's you who are in the wrong who can't break out of this pattern. A turn-based game is a game that needs strategy and team composition, the breaking meta will be this type of game where you need to put together a composition focused on weakness breaking dps. You guys just want a hypercarry like DHILL and Jingliu lmao
@@mooncliff428but is Hoyoverse fault, the 2 premiere break DPS are meant to be played as Hypercarry, they both put they own weakness, they both enhance weakness break Efficiency, i mean maybe FF is more a team player because she can make really good use of Gallagher and make sure he can help her break enemies, but even then for me hypercarry means a team where 1 character do 70% or more of that team DMG.
Honestly Acheron shouldn't be compared to other damage characters considering she needs other nihility characters to bring her full potential right? And its kinda the same for other characters in there own way if your utilizing there whole kit in short team building is more important
Ive always been of the mindset that depending on lore, that should determine your strength in game. Acheron being Mei, and being the equilvant of an Eminatior for me sells this absurd strength. Jing Yuan is the one that got shafted.
:firefly: * doing 400k to 500k DMG per cycle and zero clearing * :acheron brainrot fans: "midfly worse damage dealer in the game buff her already 🗿" I swear this is the equivalent to "but can they beat goku tho" your gonna have every new dps unit being compared to acheron she's literally the goku of honkai star rail
I think if her and Gallagher prove anything is that paths are paths not hard rules. Can't wait for the new abundance dps that can use bailu's lightcone.
Maybe after more OP emenators are released the standard will change to "Gods in the game are of course op, everything else have their niche" - so expectations will be tempered. Currently however, lots of people just compare frontload damage and it's kinda understandable. Personally, after I pulled JY and played him a bit I was disappointed, not in his damage! but how much time he needed to ramp up. I realized that I don't enjoy that kind of playstyle and rather have immediate high damage than having to wait around and it seems most people are like me. I know there are people who like intricate team building and can utilize almost every character to great extent, but everyone has their preferences and most ppl in the word nowadays are impatient, which can be seen in this case as well - give us high damage, fast -... :D
13:15 I think you misunderstand how to optimize Clara a bit. When aiming to 0 cycle, the reason you make Clara go a bunch of times is because you have control over it, and can get it to the point where the damage is significant, especially with her E1 unlocked. Regardless of how many times you advance Clara, you aren't changing the number of times you are getting hit unless you kill the enemy or delay them into the next cycle. The number of times you are hit is set. Delaying Clara does not increase the amount of counters she gets. What you should be saying is increasing the amount of turns the enemy gets within the same cycle. That's the only actual way you can increase Clara's counter count potential. That being the case, we can't do that atm. So, the next best thing is to give Clara more turns in addition to her counters with buffers that will be applicable to both her skills and counters. That is why Clara 0 cycles are conducted in the manner of which they are, in which Robin is a fantastic buffer for her as she not only has full uptime on her buffs for both skills and counters, but gives her an extra skill instance, which is also more energy for her, and gives extra crit dmg on the follow ups, and is a premium option to stack with an advancer's buffs like Sparkle. Robin is a top tier support to be paired with Clara for these reasons. Clara + Sparkle + Robin is ideal. The last spot can be either Tingyun, Pela, SW, Ruan Mei or Yukong, if you want to go all out on damage. Otherwise, it's your choice of sustain.
"Some people will say theyre happy to be able to clear in 3 cycles. Ok Buddy." I'd be happy if I could clear moc 12 in 10!!! That was my first thought but I know I am not the target demographic and understand what you mean in terms of character comparisons. I just found that thought funny as a wee baby watching the big guns play
