06:04 I used to watch a lot of documentaries as a child, I remember vividly in one of them, a pack of hyenas attacked a pregnant gazelle. They ripped the little gazelle embryo out of her belly and started tearing it apart with their powerful jaws and eating it while the mother was still alive and standing, stumbling around mortally wounded, falling down and getting up again, obviously in tremendous pain, with her belly open and part of the placenta and umbilical cord still hanging from the open wound and dragging on the dirt. As humans, we frequently anthropomorphize nature and like to think that nature is pure and innocent and while it's true that nature is immensely beautiful and in perfect balance, even without any humans in it, you can't overlook the fact that in its essence it is brutal and there is no sense of compassion in the daily struggle for survival. You can bet your sweet ass that if you found yourself in the Savana, naked and defenceless against a pack of hungry hyenas they wouldn't bother killing you 'humanely" or show any compassion. They would just incapacitate you and proceed to eat you alive. Not because hyenas are evil but because guess what? Humanity and compassion are human constructs.
@makis Thats true, nature is cruel. The difference is, that hyenas dont have a choice to not be cruel, they have to kill and eat that gazelle and they wont bother doing it in a friendly way, cuz they simply dont have that level of consciousness as humans have. Humans on the other side might (!) have a choice to not kill and eat an animal, eating vegan instead. Humans have that level of consciousness to be aware of the cruelness they do to other livings, hyenas dont. Thats why I dont really like that whole "nature is also cruel" argument. ps. fuck hyenas! 8[
Yes they are human constructs. That doesn't excuse you from killing other humans. Humans decide morality. This has always been true. Slavery was moral in ye Olde times. Now it's not. "Humanity" is a social contract. The thing about vegetarianism is - a lion or hyena has to eat meat to survive , they can't digest vegetarian food nor do they have a mind capable of critical thinking. You can survive without eating meat. If you were stuck in an island and you only had a rabbit by your side with no other food materials - by all means you are morally allowed to eat it. You are not put in that situation in real life . So why not be vegetarian
@@Harry_Ballz Your sources might be facebook, but no, Bramble the vegan dog did indeed live to 27 and a very healthy 27 years at that. Don't forget the very low % of dogs that are vegan in the first place, so to have one already being amongst the oldest dogs to ever live you can be sure that there is something beneficial about whole plant food diets for dogs. Just google "Bramble the dog" and you will find plenty of sources. He's also in the list of oldest dogs, you can find it easily on wikipedia I believe.
Dylan They tried to feed a WOLFDOG a vegan diet. Wolves eat meat like it’s going out of style. Of course a wolfdog is meant to eat meat, it’s common sense. Richard and his Harry Potter boyfriend almost killed that dog because they forced it to have a vegan diet
Isn't Richard the guy who forced his wolf-dog to eat beans and it nearly starved to death, then his girlfriend gave it meat and it instantly recovered, but VG threatened to kill her because of it?
yes, he also forces his cat to eat a vegan diet, which is arguably even worse (cats are obligate carnivores, meaning their natural diet is not only primarily meat, but entirely meat, and there are multiple nutrients they need to survive that can only be found in meat). Back when I used to be vegan, I still fed my cat meat, and so did every other vegan who owned a pet who I personally knew (a friend of mine once trolled a bunch of crazy militant vegans in a facebook group just by posting pics of their cat's food lmao), and tbh I honestly believe that feeding carnivorous animals a diet that will eventually kill them should be considered straight up animal abuse
also, just throwing this in because I only learned of it tonight and still can't get over it; Vegan Gains straight up has forwarded the opinion that predatory wild animals should be exterminated. Yes, the dude who constantly compares the meat industry to genocide wants to completely wipe out a huge number of different animal species, which would definitely lead to complete ecological collapse (and thus the death of probably *all* species on Earth, humans among them), which is not only so beyond hypocrisy that he has absolutely no right to call anyone else hypocritical, but is also batshit insane, and just absurdly stupid. The most ridiculous part is he'll completely misquote concepts from ecology (which he clearly has zero understanding of) to try to justify this bizarre opinion. The dude is seriously deranged, like probably to the point of being dangerous if he weren't also a well-known coward.
He’s actually extremely dense, everything in the room is actually revolving around him, he just makes them seem stationary because he’s spinning at the same rate as the background.
Myth: hes 4’ 3” and he can rattle the room with every move Fact: hes actually 10’ 11” and he is actually crouching and the room is very light so he can rattle it with every move Conclusion: charlie is a fucking beast
@Black Water There's a difference between a herbivore and a vegan. There's no difference between "meat eater" and a carnivore because it's the same thing.
Tbh it depends on what you're having I tried some vegan stuff and it tasted good then I tried some vegan stuff and it tasted wierd/not the best and then I tried some vegan stuff and it taste shit but if you're gonna have vegan food don't bother about fake meat/toe foo it's shit cakes are alright and salads fruit n veg and non prosed stuff are the best of vegan food
@@birdhouseproductions3757 Yeah even as someone who's eaten like that for like 6 years, it's VERY hit or miss. Beyond is consistently good, gardien has a few very strong products, morning star too, but then you get stuff that just taste like pressed-black-beans or worse.
"there is no nice way of killing" the Iroquois confederation: *does a swift killing as to not torture the animal, uses all of its resources, thanks the animal and mother nature for providing the animal and prays/gives thanks before killing the animal*
Ssoyojong or whatever her name is literally rips apart animals piece by piece then pisses on their dying body and pours hot sauce on the exposed meat while they are still in pain and then laughs like the joker
Conspiracy theory. Charlie is bald. He has been changing wigs for over a year. Little by little the hair seems to “Grow” but in reality he is just putting on wigs and he gets a new one every 7-10 days.
Yes exactly! There isn’t enough food for all the people to eat and live. So we gotta eat meat Edit: this guy below me just said something that I never thought about. 👇🏻
@@soumil5794 The point that there isn´t enough food for all the people is true, but the conclusion that we have to eat meat is not so much. Producing meat takes a huge amount of plant food, because the animals simply can´t convert 1kg of food into 1kg of meat. They also need the energy for a whole lot of other stuff. That means the plant-food we´re already producing would be way more than enough, if we didn´t use so much of it for meat production. (And if we didn´t waste like one third of all food produced, but that´s a different topic.)
@@jackie_jacksonn5172 damn I never thought about that, that chicken must have eaten a lot to get to that weight to give just that amount of meat........something to think about!
It´s true that you can eat very healthy as an omnivore *when done correctly*. But so can you as a vegan *when done correctly*. Being healthy doesn´t really depend on eating meat or not. (Only exception: vitamin B12. Only animal products contain that, so you´ll have to use supplements if you´re vegan for a long time.) PS: I hope I´m not being that villifying type of guy like VeganGains, cause I really don´t want to be :´D
Your point about vilifying the people that disagree with you is spot on, goes beyond this argument into really all discussions and disagreements politically and socially. You begin to describe the people who disagree with you as evil, amoral and/or less than yourself or those that hold your similar beliefs and that ensures continued division. It's not until we can sit down together as people and respect one another enough to actually have civil conversations, disagreements and debates that this bullshit "us vs them" tribalism will come to an end and society can start making real progress.
The point that a the vegan community has a bad imagie is just so fucking true. After turning vegan i at some point literally didn´t want to let people know, because i was scared that they would instantly project that image on me.
I really love Charlie. Wholesome creators such as Charlie make me smile daily. I appreciate their existence and grateful for them being a public figure :) restores my faith in content creators and I genuinely feel like there is very little toxicity with them and their fanbase
Believe me, even us vegans/vegetarians get a rash listening to Vegan Gains. One of the best, most rational vegan RU-vidrs is Unnatural Vegan. Vegan Gains hates her and calls her a shill for the meat and dairy industry. He has no patience for anyone who focuses on harm reduction or anything short of an outright total ban. (However, I have to point out though that the mass production and slaughter of animals is not humane in any way. These animals live lives of pain and suffering. It's why the industry has done their best to criminalize exposing their practices.)
The biggest conspiracy is that Charlie is actually made entirely of condensed onion, and defends meat-eating as a way to divert attention away from his fellow vegetables.
"What Charlie's doing is worse because he's paying someone else to do it." As if Ssoyoung didn't have to pay for the animals she tortured... People don't just get these animals for free.
In the beginning I thought you'd kinda go off on the fella but you were incredibly level headed and critical about the whole thing. I think that's incredibly rare in this day and age. When met with differing views people just lose their shit. Good on ya big man.
You have such a fantastic perspective, I don't mean to make a declaration of beliefs solely to declare, sorry if it comes off that way, I don't wish to be misconstrued, I only mean to expand the information available to people who decide to read. I'm an atheist, I haven't always been one but I've grown angry towards theists for their conduct towards individuals, those individuals should be obvious, I've been an inconsiderate asshole towards people, charlie is exactly right about how to change minds, you need to take the time to understand who they truly are, not how you perceive them. Reverse writing is a great technique, being able to think about others perspectives really makes it easier to deconstruct their opinions and politely explain to them your own. Thanks for the great video man, you truly are fantastic and I love your dialogue.
okay but he could try to understand the vegan perspective as well, but he clearly hasn't. it's not fair to expect others to understand your perspective if you won't do the same for them.
I've been a vegetarian for 3 years now and for the record Charlie's cooking episodes are some of my favourites. I frankly don't care about other people's eating habits all that much (except maybe my roommate who burns all this food, wtf are you doing man), and rarely do people confront me about mine. I guess it's all about mutual respect, but I suppose to someone like Gains that concept sounds pretty outlandish.
@@alo9240 I only saw it during the end, but my mistake though, I wasn't paying proper attention to it, but I do believe that his facts and logic was so powerful that it shook the very Tectonic Plates themselves, his voice alone is strong enough to move the Quintillions of Tons that are the Plates. The movement could be felt throughout the world and was so strong that other Alien creatures felt the movement. Hopefully Sean will be there to protect Australia and the World against those Timeline manipulating and Spacial Warping Aliens and their Quantum Computers.
I'm a little late, I know, but I just wanted to say that Charlie's endorsement of meat alternatives is helpful for me. I've been trying to eat more meat alternatives but can remember the days of Boca burgers and get ill just thinking about it.
I'm vegan and I was more thrilled to see you out animal cruelty, compared to when any of the vegan content creators I follow do the same. I'm glad you don't think that every vegan would invalidate your opinion on blatant animal torture, just because you choose to eat meat.
Well, because he’s more popular and he went against a content creator (Vegan Gains) who is trash. It’s all lips service. It’s like an environmentalist being against climate change yet still having Super Yacht. It’s all lip service and virtue signaling.
Dunno why RU-vid pulled me here...but, I did enjoy your banter on this vegan topic! I have been run thru the gammit with the vegan culture, my book has been put down, my theories on this, my reasons for this type of life, etc.
My whole purpose with the book I worked on years ago...(The Vegan Muse & Friends) was to pull people into a way of thinking that is cheaper, sustainable, humane, etc....it basically backfired in a lot of ways. SUCKS, but I do hear what you are saying and totally understand your POV and feel that you are tapped into what is the main focal point of the ideal of people considering this alternative.
Love your point about how feasible meat alternatives are to replace meat. Everything comes down to people's attitudes to meat. So many people will never not eat meat which is the biggest issue. These new alternatives that are super similar to meat are exciting and I hope the future. I don't eat meat but I hate how people feel that means you want to debate the meat industry etc with them.
This is literally one of the first times ive ever heard another person who eats meet say that fake meat is better which I very much agree with, I dont restrain myself from the idea of eating meat but I rarely eat real meat other then a topping on a pizza or casually ordering chicken at a restaurant. I personally just do not like meat that much.
No matter what kind of organization or social group you're a part of, there will ALWAYS be the crazy ones that take the organization's goal to the extreme and proceed to make the entire group look bad because of their immensely misguided or selfish actions, using the group's goals and motivations as an excuse for their bullshit. A not-so-pleasant example would be the anti-masker woman from Charlie's "Target Karen" video. What that particular Karen did (ripping masks off the shelves) was apparently so insufferably stupid and embarrassing to their cause that other anti-maskers who saw the video actually considered wearing a mask just so they wouldn't be associated with her. Let that sink in for a moment.
If you're not the victim that the cause is trying to save then they'll always be extreme to you. Vegans are more calm and collected when dealing with animal cruelty than you would be for human ones.
I've tried A&W's beyond meat burger and it was way better than I thought. I don't agree that it tastes better though, the texture was also a little rubbery, but it's a great meat alternative and I'm glad that those types of food are getting so much better because they used to be horrible.
I am not a vegan personally, but i do get the argument about killing being inherently evil to some extent. When an animal kills and eats another animal, it is because of one thing; Survival. We as humans have plenty of ways to survive without eating meat, the main reason we eat meat is because it tastes good. If you were lost in a forest and had to kill an animal and eat it to survive, it wouldnt be wrong. It's about equal consideration of interests. And our interest to eat meat does not outweigh the animal's interest to survive, and would therefore be an unethichal decision.
Yeah but all the things we receive from meat physically, we could easily replace with vitamins from vegetables, or dietary supplements. We do not eat meat for any other reason than it being deeply ingrained in our culture - it was literally one of the most important things for us at the start of rise to being modern humans. I still eat meat though, i just think it's interesting to analyze why we do it, even though we don't really have to.
@Mitchell Sommer Wow you sure are sad. You gained 39 likes from stealing that comment. I hope you are utterly EUPHORIC about getting a few internet points for being a parrot.
This was good commentary on how Veganism has good ideas, but pushes people away, which is counterintuitive to what they want and their ideals. Honestly, the commentary on meat substitutes and vegan toxicity is good to hear in general for both vegans and meat eaters. Well put together i think
Billy Bob I don’t know if you’ve seen Vegan Gains’ content before, but Charlie would never collab with him even if he wanted to. His reputation is so awful that collaborating would be like shooting yourself in the foot
Most intelligent perspective on how to gain support for a cause I've listened to in awhile. Similar to how leftists/liberals in America think destroying towns while protesting police brutality is going to get anyone on their side who already is not. All that kind of protesting does is make people who were not against you...against you.
I raised a pig to show it at my fair and then to sell it to someone for food and I wasn’t able to show it properly at the fair because of covid but other people in my group told me that people would be at the fair when they had there animals there for show and whenever they would go feed them or walk nearby the people would interrogate them and ask hella questions and just be rude like at the beginning our leaders had to tell us to just ignore them. And if people took the time to understand they would realize that we basically treat them like royalty so that they are healthy and happy when we show them.
@Sammy McKay even if veganism is correct, being extremist about anything is typically counterpoint to what you're trying to do - bring people to veganism. also, hyprocisy is extremely common in humans. everyone does it sometime. to call out hypocrisy as WHY someone is wrong is just a bad argument.
@Sammy McKay Sure but his point about Charlie being hypocritical or having cognitive dissonance is fucking idiotic. There's a big difference between eating meat from an animal that's been killed and cooked, and eating one alive, effectively killing it through biting and chewing into it. Like there's a difference between murdering someone with a bullet to the head, and torturing someone to death slowly with acid. They have the same results ultimately, but they're still very different. VG is a tool and an idiot for many things he's said, and this is just another. Charlie was not being hypocritical, and neither is anyone who eats meat yet is against abusing or killing animals for other reasons than eating them.
There are much nicer more supportive vegans that actually deserve the spotlight. I'm thinking in particular about Tabitha Brown. She has a TikTok account where she posts vegan recipes, and I highly reccomend her content, she is the positivity we need.
@@guyakerstimelord what does that mean? They were "educated" by the movie Earthling??? I hope that's not what you're saying because, grammatically, you went about conveying the idea like a cave man.
although i disagree with some of your views as i grew up in a family of butchers but i must say you have a very balanced opinion on this topic and i respect that. also love the vids
What vegan gains did with his wolf dog was truly disgusting. I mean why would a vegan adopt a wolf dog one of the only dogs that is actually a 100% carnivore and then proceed to feed it a vegan diet. The thing was anorexic had diarrhea and he still kept feeding it a vegan diet. The guy should be banned from owning a pet.
Will Kelly at some point it became common sense that he’s a provocateur and a clout leech. Unfortunately, he’s been irrelevant for long enough that people like Charlie who don’t know not to namedrop him (because that’s *literally* all VeganGains wants) are falling for it.
What’s interesting about the “all murder is inhumane” argument is that it... idk it’s hard to explain, but it acts like there’s no such thing as life before death. Take your own thoughts on death, for example: how do you want to die? It’s something we all have to think about eventually. Most people say something like “peacefully, in my sleep,” or “instantly, so I’m dead before I even realize I’m dying,” or even “I don’t really care as long as I’m doing something fun.” Very few people say they want to die slowly and painfully. So yes, all deaths end up with similar results-one dead person and potentially some shattered lives-but some deaths are better than others. Similarly, I can think of situations where “murder” (i.e. choosing the time of death of another living thing) IS the most humane option. My 19-year-old cat had end-stage kidney failure, and we had her euthanized on July 19, 2017 (I remember the exact date because I’d attended a concert the night before). She’d been going downhill fast for about a week, but when she came into my room that day, she stumbled around and drooled like she was drunk, and peed on my bathroom floor seemingly without even realizing what was happening. A friend of my mom’s came over that day, and when we explained that we were going to probably have Bridget put down that day, she took one look at her and said “you’re right, it’s time. That cat doesn’t want to be in this situation anymore.” By the logic that all murder is inhumane, I should have just let Bridget lay there and die slowly, rather than do what I did, which is call a mobile pet euthanasia service to come to our house and quietly end her suffering, while she sat in her favorite spot on the couch, surrounded by the family who loved her for 18 years. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done, and if I were in the same situation again, I wouldn’t do anything differently. I am also pro-physician-assisted-suicide for humans, by the way, for exactly this reason. Similarly, one of the best arguments for the death penalty is that it would be better for society to simply kill the most dangerous people, because one evil monster of a person can potentially end many innocent lives. According to Wikipedia, the most prolific serial killer was proven to have killed 138 children. I am not personally for the death penalty, but the morality of killing one life to save 138 innocent children is not so cut-and-dried, is it? So yeah, this guy VeganGains was absolutely living in his own little moral-highground fantasy land where everything is simple and stupid and he’s always the rightest person in the room. What a fucking tool.
I agree on all of your points except for one. I believe the morality of killing one person to save 138 innocent children is completely cut and dry. Someone who had killed one hundred and thirty eight innocent children, and would continue to kill if left alive should absolutely be put down. I also want to say that I'm sorry about your cat, I had to have mine put down because she got a blood clot and lost all circulation to her hind legs, and it was close to her heart, so we put her down. It was one of, if not the most painful moments of my life, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone that isn't a complete asshole. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
