Apologists FORGING Excuses For Biblical Slavery AGAIN! 

Joel baden makes the point that because they were rescued from slavery they were now Yahweh,s slaves and that is why they must get their slaves from outsiders - don’t be taking my slaves captive.

Ditto modern Israel versus the Palestinians, but, you know, God.

Actually it makes sense. Slaves often are put in charge of other slaves --- imagine the potential for displaced aggression there! If you have no rights, what does it matter if a slave or a free person is your master. So after 400 years, it just becomes the way things get done. Maybe they imbibed from their masters the idea that manual labor is beneath a free person, as elite Southerners felt. (Not exactly similar, but it also reminds me of how American slaves took up Christianity)

@@ChannelMath I think you'd enjoy reading all three volumes of "The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews." (by N.O.I. - fantastic documentation)

Skin on your peepee was very common in the ancient world. But for some reason demanding people remove it was way more important than telling people about penicillin.

"gay shrimp eaters"

😅​@@JasonHenderson

I don't think you fully understand the significance of these dietary laws. The Israelites were typically surrounded by pagan nations with distinct cultural and religious practices, including specific dietary and clothing customs. These restrictions were designed to set the Israelites apart. Small groups forming would often die quickly, so this complex law system addressed how to worship, dress, and eat. Each law reflects something in human relations. For example, God's presence among the people is symbolized in the tabernacle and temple, as well as in the vessels and utensils used for worship. These items represent aspects of our relationships as a nation of priests. We should help each other, symbolized by trimming each other's lamps, serving each other bread, and praying for each other with incense. The high priest's attire mirrors the tabernacle etc. When it comes to clean and unclean foods, Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy distinguish between them. Clean animals chew the cud and have split hooves, while unclean animals do not. Animals symbolize men; those that divide the hoof follow a steady, virtuous path. Chewing the cud signifies having God's commandments always in mind (Psalm 1:2, Jeremiah 15:16). Faithful people who do both are clean, while Jews and heretics, who do only one, are defiled. Pagans, who do neither, are unclean. The law serves as a mirror of human life, reflecting actions so that violations against nature in humans are more strongly condemned when seen in animals. Novatian on Unclean Animals: "For when an irrational animal is rejected on account of some one thing, that thing is the more condemned in man, who is rational. If what an animal has from its own nature is stigmatized as a sort of defilement, then the same thing is more blameworthy when found in man against his nature. (5) Accordingly, fault was found with animals so that man might improve himself: men with like defects were considered equal to brutes.3 In this way, animals are not condemned through any fault of their Creator, and men are instructed by mere brutes to return to the immaculate nature of their creation."

Yours does

This is so not ok... Humans... Should not own other humans ... It's wrong. Not biblical wrong just humanity wrong. Anyone who feels they are entitled to owning another human sees himself as God and above all humans. This is not right.

Who ain't a slave?

@@JasonHenderson I'm already a slave to society. Why be a slave that is hated to a man.

@@JasonHenderson Who does not have government?

Slavery is not condemned by the Bible And I see no problem with that

​@@goyonman9655You don't have a problem with that because it reflects the times in which it was written or because you believe God gave folks the right to own other people therefore that makes it fine or both? Just curious as to what point you're trying to make? 🤔

@@shanegooding4839 The point i'm making is, dont make something out to be a sin. Which is not a sin Owning a person is not a sin. These apologists are afraid that owning a person must lead to cruelty (Maybe because THEY cant own someone without being cruel to them.). So they are anxious to declare Slavery a sin. But it really us not

​@@goyonman9655Your god's morals suck.

@@fjalics God doesn't "have" morals HE is morality itself

For real! Christians: god doesn’t change Also Christians: well it different back then so god allowed it

Because it is repeated in the new Testament too. So, I don't see a problem in that.

Yep.

🤣

I found it really satisfying. It shows how much this topic upsets him, and that reveals the genuine goodness of his heart.

I feel bad for Josh (and all of us, really) that his nerves have to be pushed to that point by obtuse apologetics.

For me, this just shows why gnostic Christianity makes more sense to me compared to mainstream one. Sure, it may not be perfect, but it doesn't make you close-minded nor do you have to have blind faith, and it actually makes you think about yourself. Your actions and accountability are on you even if you know who the enemy is. Compared that with Christianity of today where everything is about the devil. "Devil made me do it!", "You are devil worshippers!" etc etc. Zero reflection on themselves because all they do is quote verses and pure blind faith, which doesn't promote the growth of a person or community. Maybe I am just stupid, and the devil is speaking through me. 😂😂

It makes it look like the religion came out of the culture, instead of gifted by a moral god, and when the culture changed, it looked out of place. So there goes your objective morality.

Government is a form of slavery One may not be free and "also" have other people govern over them

Despite all this slaves and women were the most common converts to Christianity and were considered equal in Christ. The New Testament is unequivocally on the side of the poor and oppressed -the meek shall inherit the earth -even blind freddy can see that Christianity was egalitarianism personified. But the clincher is that Christian cultures were the first to ban slavery and actually went to war to make others stop it -Can you give me the names of any other cultures that did this? Please. And undoubtedly all this came from the initial Christian mindset of equality that over the centuries bore fruit when the time was ripe -like a good apple in a case of rotten ones gradually making the rotten ones good. When the time was ripe!Do you realize that every time there was a worker or peasant rebellion in the Middle ages as in the Wat Tyler revolt in England, the Peasants revolt in Germany or the Taiping rebellion in 19th century China -the egalitarian essence of Christ's teachings was appealed to -and it is this mindset that over the aeons led to the egalitarianism that the west enjoys today. You know very little of history i can see

To me it says much... How angry they are to beat people is where they get joy. This is how they live now. They never want to see a woman smile because she loves them. They want her in constant hell fear and tears.

Wow, I seriously want to thank you for this support! It really means a ton and I hope to continue this.

Who was a phd in philosophy, in this group? And why do you look down upon them?

@@stevenbatke2475 Relax, he was refering to Gavin Ortlund. And he was simply pointing out that the study of philosophy doesn't qualify you to speak authoritatively on subjects like ancient near east (ANE) or textual criticism. Has nothing to do with looking down on philosophers.

this guys crazy Philosophy governs law

@@CafeteriaCatholic Philosophy is going to be required to speak on those topics lol You people are not only confused but backwards

@@CafeteriaCatholic I’m relaxed. Got it.

that didnt quite work out then did it? lol Buddhism although started in Nepal, originalted with the Vedas which is an Aryan faith that migrated to India from Iran That was our Aryan heritage Religion = slavery government is the result

Same.😊

“God helps those who help themselves" 😉

Well let's go with these "nice" verses: Isaiah 61:5-6 "5Strangers will stand and pasture your flocks, And foreigners will be your farmers and your vinedressers. 6But you will be called the priests of Yahweh; You will be spoken of as ministers of our God. You will eat the wealth of nations, And in their glories you will boast." Isaiah 60:10-12 "10“Foreigners will build up your walls, And their kings will minister to you; For in My wrath I struck you, And in My favor I have had compassion on you. 11“Your gates will be open continually; They will not be closed day or night, So that men may bring to you the wealth of the nations, With their kings led in procession. 12“For the nation and the kingdom which will not serve you will perish, And the nations will surely be laid waste."

They BLAME and BLAME and BLAME some more

Imagine God made an 11th commandment.. Thou shall not take any person as your slave

Golden age in summerian text? lol what ever

Yes, social institutions, including slavery, were often seen as something that's necessary because the golden age has ended. It'd add, though, that the golden age is often ambivalent - on the one hand, people don't have to work, but on the other, it's often depicted as quite brutal, e.g., it's often an age when human sacrifices were practiced. It's kind of a reflection of untamed nature, which can be both peaceful and brutal.

@je-freenorman7787 "in those days there was no snake, there was no scorpion, there was no hyena There was no lion, ...dog...wolf... ...no fear... no terror.... In those days the land of shubur, the place of plenty, of righteous decrees Harmony toungued Sumer, the great land. .. having all that is needful... resting in security , the whole universe, the people in unison..in one toungue gave praise", - tablet 29.16.422 in the nipper collection , sumerian mythology Samuel Noah Kramer When people state claims in a comment section of these type of academic based channels, claims that just sound bonkers to me, I've learned that it's usually me who's missing the information, not the other way around. I wish I didn't have to learn the hard way and had someone like me out there to tell me this, like I'm doing for you, so I didn't have to do what you just did so many times. 🧸

@kamilgregor right. Its confusing kinda, it looks like there's typically 2 different golden ages at first, when you take all the texts though, as one big epic, what it then appears to be is that the human sacrifices usually come about after and because of a flood. Like the greek myth about the kraken coming and causing the flood, like a Tiamat or a typhon, and to keep the flood away they had to sacrifice a willing participant to the gods. Pretty dark stuff. But yea I'm pretty sure some creation myths have human sacrifice goin on right off the rip.

@@Kytheus2106 ok so "The Real" Golden Age of Humanity is when the planet is at its Prestine Condition So there are NO CONRETE BUILDINGS NO BRICKS NO STEEL ALL NATURAL !!!!!!!

Yes, even Lincoln would be a clear racist by modern standards. He was like, pay them for their work, but mixed marriages? Gross!

Thats why morality sucks. People follow their religious beliefs instead. Most people have no clue what moraity is or how it needs to function properly. Religion is immoral behavior . So is government

also, when dealing with culture, Western Culture is referring to Western Europe. Not America and its very important to understand that America is "NOT A COUNTRY" or you wont really know where you are

Not to mention that Christianity probably played a large part in holding back social and ethical progress. When slavery was being argued against using the Bible, the same Bible was being used to support it. Christians want to credit Christianity for everything good that has arisen out of Christian societies throughout histroy and make excuses for everything bad that came from those same societies.

I mean... 😅 🤔

who you think wrote it

It is the mere works of man. That's why the Israelites borrowed from and modified the myths of their *older* surrounding religions and cultures to craft their own myths. And no god ever wrote a book. It's always people claiming to speak for their god/s. ----------------------------------------------- *The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.*** *Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.*** ***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service. *"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"* *"Sumerian Is the World's Oldest Written Language | ProLingo"* *"Sumerian Civilization: Inventing the Future - World History Encyclopedia"* ("The Sumerians were the people of southern Mesopotamia whose civilization flourished between c. 4100-1750 BCE." "Ancient Israelites and their origins date back to 1800-1200 BCE.") *"The Myth of Adapa - World History Encyclopedia"* Also discussed by Professor Christine Hayes at Yale University in her 1st lecture of the series on the Hebrew Bible from 8:50 to 14:30 minutes, lecture 3 from 28:30 to 41:35 minutes, lecture 4 from 0:00 up to 21:30 minutes and 24:00 up to 35:30 minutes and lecture 7 from 24:20 to 25:10 minutes. From a Biblical scholar: "Many stories in the ancient world have their origins in other stories and were borrowed and modified from other or earlier peoples. *For instance, many of the stories now preserved in the Bible are* ***modified*** *versions of stories that existed in the cultures and traditions of Israel’s* ***older*** *contemporaries.* Stories about the creation of the universe, a cataclysmic universal flood, digging wells as land markers, the naming of important cultic sites, gods giving laws to their people, and even stories about gods decreeing the possession of land to their people were all part of the cultural and literary matrix of the ancient Near East. *Biblical scribes freely* ***adopted and modified*** *these stories as a means to express their own identity, origins, and customs."* *"Stories from the Bible"* by Dr Steven DiMattei, from his website *"Biblical Contradictions"* ------------------------------------------------------------------ In addition, look up the below articles. *"Yahweh was just an ancient Canaanite god. We have been deceived! - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* *"Debunking the Devil - Michael A. Sherlock (Author)"* *"The Greatest Trick Religion Ever Pulled: Convincing Us That Satan Exists | Atheomedy"* *"Zoroastrianism And Persian Mythology: The Foundation Of Belief"* (Scroll to the last section: Zoroastrianism is the Foundation of Western Belief) *"10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions - Listverse"* *"January | 2014 | Atheomedy"* - Where the Hell Did the Idea of Hell Come From? *"Retired bishop explains the reason why the Church invented "Hell" - Ideapod"* Watch *"The Origins of Salvation, Judgement and Hell"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica (Sensitive theists should only watch from 7:00 to 17:30 minutes as evangelical Christians are lambasted. He's a former theist and has been studying the scholarship and comparative religions for over 15 years) *"Top Ten Reasons Noah’s Flood is Mythology - The Sensuous Curmudgeon"* *"Forget about Noah's Ark; There Was No Worldwide Flood | Bible Interp"* *"The Search for Noah’s Flood - Biblical Archaeology Society"* *"Eridu Genesis - World History Encyclopedia"* *"The Atrahasis Epic: The Great Flood & the Meaning of Suffering - World History Encyclopedia"* Watch *"How Aron Ra Debunks Noah's Flood"* (8 part series debunking Noah's flood using multiple branches of science) *"The Adam and Eve myth - News24"* *"Before Adam and Eve - Psychology Today"* *"Gilgamesh vs. Noah - Wordpress"* *"Old Testament Tales Were Stolen From Other Cultures - Griffin"* *"Parallelism between “The Hymn to Aten” and Psalm 104 - Project Augustine"* *"Studying the Bible"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei (This particular article from a critical Biblical scholar highlights how the authors of the Hebrew Bible used their *fictional* god as a mouthpiece for their own views and ideologies) *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history?"* -- by Dr Steven DiMattei *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei

@@LM-jz9vhThanks bro your comment is informative I like it.

Yeah then he spends time telling us we turned kings into gods. Just like they turned a guy named Jesus into a god, Seems it is an human trait not the action of a god.

😂

We used to call them Nobles Lead and serve is satanic slavery. Thats what you have now Money has no value

Why? Islam and Christianity both come from the Hebrew scripture. Abraham is the constant character because religion is all the same thats one cult

Apologists just need to stay silent on a bunch of this stuff. Focus on the good parts of the Bible and preach inspirational sermons to the flock that already believe. Apologists have gotten completely off the rails, you can't convert rational people. You have to indoctrinate children.

Christians, particularly the more conservative/fundamentalist/traditionalist kind*, are loathe to admit that the Holocaust wasn't some bizarre, unprecedented anomaly, but merely the logical conclusion of more than a thousand years of Christian bigotry. *Except for the ones who still explicitly endorse antisemitism, the serpent seed doctrine, and similar beliefs.

Most Christians, at least here in the US, are loathe to admit that the Holo caust was no unprecedented anomaly but merely the logical outcome of more than a thousand years of Christian bigotry.

That is a response from a monster savage!

Well on slavery it was better than Hebrew law. Hebrew law allowed slavery for a time!

Exactly.

i don't think you understood gavin ortlund Point because he was responding to a specific person claiming it was race based.

@@kylecityy mentions that it wasn't race bassed doesnt make it any better. Also ofcourse it wasnt race based. the concept of race didnt exist

@MohamedAli-nf1rp Gavin ortlund was pointing out someone else's argument who did think it was race based. that's my point. this is why Gavin feels he's been misrepresented, because this video doesn't mention the arguments he was responding to from another youtuber.

"Well, he was a serial killer, but at least he wasn't a racist serial killer!"

The ancient Israelites did. 1st Kings 9:21 Solomon conscripted the descendants of all these peoples remaining in the land-whom the Israelites could not exterminate -to serve as slave labor, as it is to this day. Then read Leviticus 25

The issue is racism is actually really important. Racism adds a whole other layer of psychological oppression. It damages people’s self-images and makes possible a kind of generational wounding that would be totally absent otherwise. But this is brought into focus by recent scholarship examining race as a distinctly modern phenomenon. So therefore what? Therefore the slavery tolerated by Scripture was not so psychologically abusive as the more recent forms that shape our thinking about these questions. That’s not nothin’.