Well you can always air gap your smart TV I.e. remove all internet connection . RJ (internet cable) is easy. Wireless requires more effort . You can usually factory reset TV and NOT give it wifi password. Then you can buy a good streaming box and connect it to HDMI input. I have two TVs connected this way using NVIDIA boxes
I'm one of those people who would like to find a large panel 4K resolution dumb TV, so that I can use my frequently updated set top boxes for source. Thanks for clarifying why we can no longer find these systems. It's unfortunate by I agree with you, I've also seen people being excited about the bundled in Smart TV systems.
Caleb, thank you for answering my question, I truly appreciate it. I had an idea that it would be more cost effective for TV manufacturers to stick to a smart TV platform… but one can only dream! Thanks again!
I was part of the first consumer FPD manufacturers to see the original examples of Dolby Vision on a one-off panel where each custom LED pixel was capable of 2000 nits peak brightness. I repeat: EACH PIXEL. So, when a welder went to work in the demo loop, we all literally had to look away.
I’d love a dumb TV. These smart TV features are virtually pointless without good on-board processing power which doesn’t seem to exist in any manufacturers TV models. External streaming devices are the way to go get a good user experience. Also lots of UI’s are now being cluttered with unwanted ads. So many people I know don’t even hook their units up to their network except maybe once a year to look for firmware updates and then immediately disconnect them again. I’d absolutely love a ‘dumb’ TV at this point.
I would love to see an option in the TV OS to be able to deactivate categories of "smart" features, and have then just removed from the home screen. Like...my computer has Photoshop, but I don't have an icon for it in my desktop.
I happily left my Sony A80J (with Google TV) in basic mode from day one, with no internet connection. Manual firmware updates aren't for everyone, but it works for me.
@@matthewfelix1851 went with apple tv also, snappy ui without invasive ads. Now I'm just waiting for an ATSC 3.0 replacement for my old tivo (but not one from tivo because: ads)
I use a computer for my interface on my TVs & streaming using a keyboard & mouse for control when streaming, also have an antenna for local broadcasts, still use a 4K Blu-ray player as another option. May not always get 4K content via the internet, but I'm ok with that.
The dumb TV question was one I had myself and the google minimal option is good to know. Been watching your vids for awhile now and the recent Sony X95L mini LED review was very good and has made me reconsider my stance regarding LCD TVs. You have earned a sub my good sir. Thumbs up as usual.
The explainer about non-smart TVs was helpful. (Sorry, I dislike the term “dumb” TV.) I wonder if, in a future video, you’d be willing to demonstrate the alternate Google TV mode that disables some of the smart features. Thanks for the videos!
Add another customer who would LOVE to have a non-smart TV. But I guess that's why I'm subscribed to this channel 😉 And like some other commenters have said, I would love to see a short video about how Google TV looks in it's not-super-invasive mode.
I have a Chromecast with Google TV. The non-invasive mode is called "Apps Only Mode" and it basically removes almost all of the suggested movies/shows and shows only one screen for jumping to apps. Unfortunately, voice search is disabled in this mode.
I gave my mother my old LG TV with a first gen Chromecast for her bedroom. It works great for casting stuff like Disney+. My brother's super cheap 'smart' TV (with basically no apps) got a Roku stick upgrade and now it's basically a brand new TV.
The question about 65 lg vs 75 TCL is an excellent question. Years ago we were happy with 50 55 inch TV. Every single person on planet earth would like a bigger TV, that's why 65 is the norm today. The difference between a 65 and 75 is normally up to 500$. If you can get a slightly lesser but still excellent 75 inch vs a truly excellent 65 inch, that's a big decision, and exactly what I'm contemplating - between cheap brand 75 inch QLED vs Sony 65 inch LED, they're roughly same price
I also appreciated that question, on a broader scale. I don’t think it necessarily required a lot of details of someone’s use requirements to ask what could be answered in a more general way. I personally would choose a higher quality 65 inch to a lesser 75 or 77 inch. If the TV is smaller than 65 inches, then size comes more into play. But I am probably in the minority since so many prioritize size. A couple of other implicit questions could be answered generally in about twenty seconds, puhrticularly since the question referenced an OLED TV vs a non OLED TV.
@@LeezahB 65 is pretty much the peak regular TV. Years ago 65 was thought of as humongous. People didn't change, just the cost became feasible. 75 seems too big for most living rooms. It's difficult
I have a LG G2 65 and man watching Ashoka in this tv is amazing, but that show has a lot of dark scenes and when the ligth saber comes to te screen i need to close my eyes haha, and this TV is only 1k nits, i can't imagine 5000 nits. Quick notes: 1 - I use this TV in a utlra dark room, so my eyes get used to the dark in super dark scenes. 2- Give Ashoka a chance, the show has been amazing so far.
My A90J does wonders with image processing. But only when being fed an image with HDMI! There’s a significant quality loss when using internal apps to play video. Even Plex playing a Remux from my NAS looks worse than the same UHD blu ray being played on the dedicated player.
I appreciate the convenience of the internal apps, but more and more I am hearing that these same apps look better through an external source than internally, so now I am considering adding Apple TV to my system.
@@LeezahB I did exactly that and I’m very happy. It can only support 5.1 audio, but that’s all I have for my audio setup so I’m happy with it. I could have gotten an Nvidia shield but I’m sick of having to tinker with the OS to hide advertisements. There are none on Apple TV, and the interface is as smooth and fast as possible. I am sick of android. If there was a next gen shield with hdmi 2.1 and an option for zero advertisements I’d get that easily but unfortunately such a device doesn’t exist.
The worst part about smart TV OSs, for me, is when functionality is taken away with updates. My 2015 Samsung started having apps removed when the newest versions were not supported by the OS. It wouldn't just leave the old version there. Pluto was the first one back in, I think, 2019 already. If you want a "dumb" display and are OK with the smaller size, we can look at computer monitors, but they don't make those in 65"...
Speaking of dumb TV’s I’d be 100% in on one of those! But as you said it wouldn’t be feasible but, how about a toggle switch in the software that lets you shut it off. These new TV’s (Samsung ) which a friend recently picked up asked me to help her set up this atrocity of a TV. What a pain in the posterior. I really miss the days of not having to go through page after page of crap just for a picture to appear on the screen. So yeah, 100% in on a dumb TV or at the very least a switch in the software to disable that part of the TV. Can we get that done? I don’t remember having to go through that with my 2016 LG OLED. I know it’s old but I will be upgrading to the gallery series soon.
I would prefer a dumb TV myself in most cases. I'm using a firestick and not the native LG app. For reasons that Caleb mentioned, they don't want to create new software to be able to enable and disable apps on the TV, because it will cost them money. Time and resources to update the software and they're also losing out on some of the tracking features (that we don't want) that they can charge for.
I just want the best 65" panel without sound or internet connectivity (and pay less for it than a full TV). I use an Apple TV and my own sound. It'll never happen though.
Prior to smart TV’s it was occasionally possible to get top quality monitors without speakers, like for professional installation … but I haven’t seen anything like that in a consumer price range once plasma died.
I think the question about the shield upscaling is will the two upscaling methods compete with one another, or will they try to layer, causing any problems.
Yet another reason why I still love my Kuro ❤ Dumb TV apart from where it matters, nothing to update or settings to mess with, no apps to worry about, just add & remove what I want 👍 Sonos is an awful company, terrible apps with stuff guaranteed to break just out of warranty, unfixable by them but they'll do the trade in hook , stay away.
With the dumb TVs, it reminds me of the auto industry. You have some brands embracing Android Auto and Car Play, and some (like GM) cutting the support so more people use the embedded infotainment hardware and software. There's got to be a financial incentive there, if only for controlling more of the user data.
100 percent THIS! I think about this all the time. There are a lot of parallels. Like, some auto manufacturers make the WORST infotainment OS - my vote for the worst ever is Fiat/Chrysler. Every Dodge, Jeep , etc out there is rolling around with dark-ages tech shining through their little screens.
Ever since the first Apple TV I stopped using the tv apps on my TV's. It would be great if there was a way to strip all the apps on a tv and dumb it down
Re wall mounting and your skat wall; last year I helped my son install a 75” Sony in an above his fireplace mantle ( don’t get me started on that “designer” choice😠), using a heavy duty Kantos bracket that has sufficient extension and articulation to allow for almost 90dg swivel for viewing in their kitchen. There’s also a specialized bracket to mount the Sonos ARC bar to the TV. Not my preference, but yeah. So the point is that if you so desired, an opening in the slat panelling just sufficiently sized to accommodate the wall mount frame of the bracket would be completely hidden by even the smallest screen you’d likely ever want to review. That of course doesn’t eliminate the fact that wall mounting anything above around 55” is both a pain in the ass, and definitely a two person job. Neither does it eliminate the rat’s nest of connections for folks wanting to use the smart TV as the signal switching hub of their system - of course there are some of us old farts who don’t use all the inputs on either our TV or AVRs, so YMMV. While “dumb TVs” are an interesting thought, I don’t think the economies of scale would ever allow for that to be an affordable option. Cheers, Caleb, and keep,up the good work. Oh yeah, maybe scrounge for a mint condition pair of A25s to complete that vintage Dynaco collection, and do an episode regaling us with war stories of your entry into the audio/video gladiatorial combat arena. 😉
i still like dumb TV`s better , the makers can do it , but there after the money , and not the costumers happiness , as why the makers of TV will not do dumb TV anymore . but i do like them better , something i can have control over how i want the settings , not the makers settings for smart TV`s.
I like the idea of dumb TV's also. But the way I see it if you don't want to use the apps and features on your TV just connect a device like a fire stick or Nvidia Shield to your TV instead
Most of them (in my small sample, anecdotal experience), then require you to use their remote instead of the one that came with the TV which make have handy TV-setting-specific functions or other features (like motion controls or illumination, etc), or use two remotes (or your phone).
Hey Caleb, I was shopping for a 75” TV and when I compared the Sony X90L to the X93L, the colors between the two were night and day, the X93L had much brighter/saturated colors. This confused me since both TVs had stickers indicating that they have Triluminos Pro (the silly Sony marketing term signifying Quantum Dots). After some research, I discover the X90L is actually using “PFS Phosphor LEDs”, which have a much lower color brightness compared to the “real” Quantum Dots found on the Sony X95K and Sony X93L? In your experience, is this a difference only noticeable if the two different Quantum Dot technologies are side by side? Are other tv manufacturers skewing their marketing on the tech that is actually inside? And do you think it’s misleading, or even smart, for Sony to be advertising the same “XR Triluminos Pro” on the Sony X90L as it does on the Sony X95K/X93L?
So not seeing an answer to the Sonos question... But for surround you need a pair of speakers and the same model(same as making a stereo pair). You can group a speaker to your arc and sub but I've found if you're watching tv/movie you do get a small audio delay that you can't fix. For music you wouldn't have an issue but video you would.
I'm asking an adjacent question, if I may. I am not a huge phone guy, I use it when necessary obviously, but I refuse to spend stupid amounts of money for said phone. I can count on one hand how many pictures I've taken on any of my phones, and I'm guessing that a good portion of phone cost is the camera, right? Are there non-camera phones out there?
Piggybacking off your comment. They make so many phones, it is silly to me that we can't order a "custom" phone at this point. In my case, I like having a camera, but I don't need or want to pay for water resistance to 200 meters. Give me an audio jack. I always use a case, just make the exterior durable silicone rubber instead of paying for glass or titanium or whatever fad Apple is currently pitching.
Cut out on the slat wall for a 65" TV, then cut again for 77" and 85", and with the subsequent cuts, attach what you cut off to a magnet. Put up a magnetic sheet.
Any major brands that still sell 4k tvs that doesnt need to connect to the internet(no wifi/ethernet) but just usb & multiple hdmi ports & can be bought globally?
I used to use my Samsung 64F8500 plasma TV strictly for watching bluray movies. And a second Panasonic lcd TV for watching online contents and sports. You can't have all in 1 concept, I reckon.
Having basically a PC monitor and being able to slap in what ever "software" (PC, Apple TV, Chromecast, Shield etc.) on that monitor would be the ideal way at least for me.
Remember that PC monitors are designed to display text differently than a TV, so you may not get the results you're expecting. "May" being the operative word.
I would love a dumb TV with no onboard OS. I use an Apple TV and every time I turn on my Samsung TV, I have to wait for the horrendous samsung UI to disappear before I can start using the TV. It includes ads that I have to look at and cannot disable.
I have an Apple TV. I might reconnect my C1 to the Internet again for a firmware update, but I got so tired of the pop-up ads that I disabled network access altogether. I appreciate the extra functionality for those people who can't spring for another decent set-top box, but I'm more than happy with a hermit TV setup. (While I get that most people think of "dumb" as the opposite of "smart," and that even I still use it for that, it's still technically a derogatory term for people who can't speak. "Hermit" works because the TV itself is cut off from the rest of the world.)
I read somewhere else that it is possible to just buy a computer monitor instead of a smart Tv if one is using a streaming device or PC as the server for content...is this feasible? Not a lot of large screen are available this way but there are a few in the 40"plus range last I looked. They cost more than the smart TVs (which are now unbelievably cheap) but the monitor I saw on Amazon still costs less than the plasma TV I got a decade ago...I frankly just don't really trust that disabling the smart features really prevents data collection.
Maybe I am out of loop since my TV came out in 2018 (Sony X900F), but do newer TVs boot to the last used input? My does and it bypasses all of the unsupported Smart TV apps. If newer TVs don't do this, I can see the pain and wanting a "dumb TV".
Honestly this is one of the reasons I wanted a Sony soundbar (got the HT-A5000). Full 2.1 4K120 VRR pass through. Didn’t lose the port at all while using a soundbar.
A question...outside consoles and a PC, why would you need so many HDMI 2.1 ports? Just curious so I figured 3-4 would be like the tipping point cos ps5, x one, PC and what else?
@@nomanbroman3556 You are right, I don't "need" all of the ports to be 2.1, but I would like it to be future proofed, and more importantly, I just want them all to be the same, so that it doesn't matter which port is chosen. Just make them all the same, and then nobody ever has to think about it or possibly make an error pluging in a device into the wrong port.
@@nomanbroman3556 apart from that, nothing really. I use my 2.1 port for my gaming PC and nothing else, as I don’t have consoles, but I know people who go to LG as they have all 3 (PC, PS5, and Xbox Series X). For now, those are the only things that fully utilize 2.1 but in the future that can change.
Sonos scared me of as a potential customer years back. I always wanted Sonos until they purposely pushed out a firmware on all of their older speakers that bricked them.
Upscaling in receivers is almost always off by default. Typically, although not always, the display will do a better job nowadays in scaling than the AVR.
The Samsung QM65R is presented as a "digital signage" unit. It's 4k and has multiple HDMI inputs, and is Bluetooth and Wifi capable. Why couldn't I just run a Roku into one of the HDMI ports and be done with it? I hate Smart TVs to give up watching TV if necessary. I don't need an internal tuner, just display what I input thank you very much.
Upscaling algorithms are far from equal in quality and are non-trivial. Think of the "dumbest" one, let's say upscaling from 1080p to 4K just by quadrupling each pixel (4K is exactly four 1080p screens stapled together). Yes, it will work, but you are just getting a 1080p image. What we want is a way to construct a new image (with new pixels that weren't there in the source) to make it seem as if the image was in 4K originally. There's a lot of interesting work being done here, and different algorithms excel at different content types, e.g. real life action vs. animation, and those that take past and future frames of the video into consideration. It can take a hefty processor to do this in realtime! The most exciting recent development comes from NVIDIA's VSR, which uses machine learning on a huge dataset and realtime AI to construct a new higher-res image. Results so far are quite impressive. We won't see it coming to TVs very soon, because it requires specialized AI accelerator chips, but you can see it right now on PCs with NVIDIA GPUs.
I know Hisense, TCL, & VIZIO have an option at setup to opt out of tuning on the smart features. It can turns off the Google TV platform, making it a "dumb(er) tv". But I haven't used it.
Since the sound quality sucks on all the new TVs (except Sony A95L and some of the Hisense models ) they should leave ALL speakers out completely and have a dedicated separate input just for soundbar or other speakers .TVs would be thinner and lighter (and cooler running )
I hear the Sharp XLED also has excellent sound in addition to the Sony X95L, A95L and two of the Hisense models, relatively speaking to most TV sound. Since I have not heard any of these TVs in person, not sure if the sound is so good that I wouldn’t still want to hook up my old but still relevant AVR.
As a manufacturer, this is a mixed bag. Being able to produce sound without having a speaker bar or surround system running can be very important to the majority of consumers. The flip side of the coin is that the majority of consumers are oblivious as to what is good sound vs just...sound, so manufacturers tend to go for the lowest value built-in speakers to meet demand, but keep cost down.
When early Smart TV (TM) was relatively new, I hated the concept. The UIs sucked. It was slow and clanky. Lag was like dialup modem days. Of course, over time, all of these components improved. SOCs got better and faster. Apps became fully functional and responsive. And, finally, more and more content adapted to the growing market for streaming. I'll admit that compared to my first "smart" TV (a 32" 1080p Samsung), our current set (LG SM8600 55") is a pleasure to use. Where I would have relied on the Netflix and RU-vid apps on my Blu-ray player before, I now happily use the native apps for those platforms. Everything is fast, responsive, and just works. Now, with that said, if there were enough consumer demand for old school "dumb" TVs, then I'm all for choice/competition. I don't think the current economies of scale achieved with smart TVs would apply, though. So much of manufacturing cost is probably offset by the ad revenue to be gained on in-app ads that it wouldn't be replicable on the dumb side.
This is why i use a projector, no need to upgrade it just for a few more nits of brightness. Modern LED models produce little heat or noise compared to the lamp ones of old. Who needs apps that are of little use? if you must have them buy a firestick or as i have an Apple TV box.
Regarding " dumb TV's ", I don't use the LG operating system - as a matter of fact I purposely keep it off line, and feed signals via Roku and I still have basic satellite. So when my TV boots, just Direct TV automatically comes on - with CEC I press the enter button on Roku and it ( the TV ) switches to Roku instantly. Its about as dumb a tv as I can make it, but with Google no matter ehat you do it feels invasive so I avoid any TV with this operating system baked in. I WANT DUMB TV'S!
What would you recommend for someone like myself who primarily streams or cast their media onto the tv? I also enjoy a beautiful picture in a pretty dim room. I also don't want to shell out OLED money so price would also be a factor. No need for good speakers, or tons of HDMI ports, just a super good picture with streaming media
You can get “dumb” display panels through professional video shops that are meant for advertising/info displays or video walls. Unfortunately there isn’t any cost savings and video quality probably won’t be as good as tv panels.
I am using my LG smart Tv as a dumb Tv, I don’t like the amount of information and permission it asks for registration. Recently I brought another Roku OS tv for my room and it wouldn’t even let me go past the setup without having an online account registered and connected to WIFI.
Hi Caleb, I'm from Belgium we have other models here and I wonder if the models have the same image quality ? I know the TCL QM8 is great (you reviewed it🙂) but it's not available in Europe 😞, instead we get the c945 I believe it is not the same tv. I'm looking for a 75" As alternative ; is the Hisense U8KQ and U8K the same TV (in Europe we get VIDAA 7 os instead of Google TV, thats is already bad) also the 75 does not have a VA panel , but I can't find any reviews of it. Cheers. Renzo
The ARM chip in most TVs probably costs $10. Its powerful enough and has hardware video codec built in. The manufacturer gets money for running ads in the UI so it probably wouldn't save any money and probably would COST MORE MONEY to drop the streaming apps. So how about a 6-HDMI smart TV?
Maybe look into getting a AV Receiver. Most decent ones in the $300 to 1200 range will have 5 to 8 HDMI inputs and 1 to 2 HDMI outputs. Plus you can upgrade the audio, while you're at it. Receivers aren't for everyone but it definitely helps when you have more devices with HDMI out, than HDMI inputs on the TV.
This is why I love having my Apple TV 4K hooked up to the LG OLED, because I almost never have to see that horrible LG interface. Holding the button powers everything on straight to the Apple TV interface never needing to interact with LG except for the unwarranted pop up notifications
Hello Caleb. As you said, give me more info and help me so I can help you. I will try to be as clear as possible. I am interested in a couple of models, and I’m trying to figure out which one to buy. I am going to focus on mini LED and OLED-based TVs. I perfectly understand that if you want complete black-level colors and contrast, you have to buy an OLED TV, because Mini LED TV no matter how many zones they have just can not have OLED-level contrast and black levels. Now let's be clear. Let's put aside all numbers for nid-nerds as you like to mention, and get to the business. Forget about bright rooms and dark rooms, forget about SDR or HDR content, forget about upscaling, forget about everything. Just focus only on size and price, why price and size? Based on all your reviews about TVs all the models mentioned below in general have perfect picture quality and if we talk about the average consumer, that part is more than enough to buy one of those TVs. Me going to turn on my TV when I want to watch movies in the evening in a normal living room environment, not too dark not too light just a normal living room. I am only going to buy 75 or 77-inch TVs. I am looking at only 4 brands, Sony, LG, Samsung, and TCL. Now let's start with 2023 year Mini LED models. TCL 75 inch QM8 cost 1800$, Sony X93L right now costs 2800$, Samsung QN90C right now 2600$. Now 2023 year OLED models. Sony A80L, Samsung S90C and S95C, LG C3, and G3, and let's not forget about last year's models LG C2 and G2, and Sony A80K? Now the question. which one to buy at this moment right now? The budget starts from 1500 to 3000$
I like this series, but isn't it getting a little too detailed when were talking about a specific streaming box and a specific TV. More general questions please.
I would Definitely agree non smart tv an a lot of cheaper smart tvs seems to have issues my roku tv the picture went out and I could only hear sound but no picture Never had any issues with my old tv before switching to a smart tv My old tv was a Samsung before i got a smart tv had it at least 6 years and it still worked when I sold it at a yard sale then got a roku tv and I had same issue with 2 of them the picture went out and only can here sound I’m sticking with non smart tv i have a roku stick i can use
You already have the potential dumb tv. Many people don t realize the new smart devices take over your tv. This is due to cec. So a new google Chromecast box has volume and power on off on the remote but if the tv is off simply clicking on any button on the Chromecast turns the tv on and it goes to the google tv interface skipping the native tv interface. This also means no need to program remotes it is just automatic thanks to cec and most tvs have it you just need to turn it on in settings. Same with my dvd player if I turn it.on the tv turns on and goes to that input.
My mother in-law is 84 years old and needs a new TV, she doesn't have internet in her house and have looking for a 4K TV that doesn't require an internet connection. Can you help me out with this?
You know what I miss and I know I’m old I miss the Bose store where you could go in and listen to everything that you’re thinking about purchasing. I would love to go to a store and hear the Nakamichi dragon or the.Sonia home theater grow in the 80s and 90s in the 2000s there was home theater stores all over the place in Virginia, Maryland, DC where you can go and listen to these things maybe I just lost touch where they are I don’t know I went to win this past summer down in Myrtle Beach but most the time Best Buy doesn’t even have their stuff hooked up to listen to
Roku TVs were disabled by Roku because they forced arbitration on all roku users... so you literally couldn't use ANY functionality of your TV until you agreed. Why? Because they were hacked and were heading off potential lawsuits for leaking everyone's private info to hackers. But people didn't know that. They just clicked okay and didn't know that they were hacked.
Honestly guys, how many of you really get bored with or get apathetic to, or even can't stand your TV unit you purchased so dearly, say after 6 months to 2 years time? I'd reckon there'd be great many folks that feel frustrated when reviewers keep bringing better than the best TV packed with features. This is to make you feel your TV sucks so that you spend more on the new 'best' one. Avoid the 'best' superlative. It's an illusion and heavily loaded with subjectivity and bias.
PC monitors are still a thing for those who are serious about wanting dumb TVs. They can go as big as 42-48" if you shop for an OLED (although they're considerably more expensive than OLED TVs of the same size like the 42"/48" LG C2). Outside of the OLED space they tend to max out at 32" though.
As I've noted for friends, 'smart' TV buyers are the one's who want 'dumb' TV with mostly 'dumb' TV buyers wanting their new TV to be fully loaded and 'smart'. But what really sucks is when you're trying to replace a TV for an 80+ year old that has only used a cable box to watch TV and wants nothing new. Having them land in a smart TV screen after start up and trying to learn to use a different remote to select a different output to get to their cable box is infuriating.
